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[QUOTE=Gaius;6305031]Yeah.
Don't know how he got that from my post but unsurprising.[/QUOTE]
"Unsurprising"?
What's with the dismissive atitude? I'm not a blabering monkey with simplistic thoughts, nor am I here to distort what others said. I'm here for intelligent discussions and I sure hope people here aren't starting to take lowly views on others disregarding the hundreds of complex conversations that have happened in this forum over the years.
If you weren't suggesting Diana accomplished something in Rucka's run then I agree. If you think that "keep trying to change the world" is a relevant political story, rather than an inconsequential slogan, than I hope one day you come to see it otherwise
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6305038]That same story also claimed that last time Superman inspired someone was when he died, which Superman fans have also called bullshit on.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Superman inspiration line is one of those burns that seems profound and insightful until you think about it for more than two seconds. It probably works better for people who've never read a Superman comic.
Kind of like the "Batman would be more helpful donating his money" take. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised Johns didn't have Clark say that in response.
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[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6305047]Yeah, the Superman inspiration line is one of those burns that seems profound and insightful until you think about it for more than two seconds. It probably works better for people who've never read a Superman comic.
Kind of like the "Batman would be more helpful donating his money" take. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised Johns didn't have Clark say that in response.[/QUOTE]
That would require Clark to have intelligence and balls, something Johns isn't great with applying to the character.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6305040]How is anything in the Jimenez ans Rucka runs performative? She was actually doing stuff (including also bringing that one dictator to the Hague in the first issue). Ideally, Holliday College would be included along with the Embassy, instead of one or the other.
Any effort made at Holliday College would be inconsequential in the long run as well. DC wouldn't allow it to have any long term change any more than her efforts in the other runs.[/QUOTE]
What are the consequences from Diana having meetings about torture? Does this create meaningful stories that can be developed upon?
Nope, in universe, Diana has the same value that Leonardo Dicaprio and Angelina Jolie have to the world.
If you believe in the philosophy of a character, don't give her stories that just function as slogans. Create stories that show meaningful change being accomplished.
Stories in Holliday College can actually show Diana change the lives of many women.
And If DC eventually destroys Holliday College to reset the status quo, then just rebuild it again.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6305036]Rucka's work on Wonder Woman earned him two Eisner nominations. Seems to me like he was doing a good job.
It's about as much change as any other version of Diana has ever accomplished. Or is there a story arc in the Golden/Silver Ages about Diana bringing about world peace, eradicating inequality and solving environmental collapse I'm not aware of?[/QUOTE]
Nightwing was also nominated for Eisners. This means nothing as the meaningfulness of it's political work. And Rucka's story wasn't nominated because Diana attended a party and wrote a book
And Diana eradicating inequality and solving environmental colapse is impossible storytelling. Then again, I wasn't arguing that writers should do that was I?
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305041]"Unsurprising"?
What's with the dismissive atitude? I'm not a blabering monkey with simplistic thoughts, nor am I here to distort what others said. I'm here for intelligent discussions and I sure hope people here aren't starting to take lowly views on others disregarding the hundreds of complex conversations that have happened in this forum over the years.
[/QUOTE]
You immediately jumped on me and started making assumptions in my post about what I considered succeeding or failing her mission was.
Also
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305041]"Unsurprising"?
[B]What's with the dismissive atitude? [/B]...[B]Than I hope one day you come to see it otherwise[/B][/QUOTE]
Take your own advice
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People here are constantly criticizing writers for not being ambitious enough with Wonder Woman in so many different ways, but when it comes to this issue you settle for such performative and weak strategies from writers.
"I want to show Diana as a form of change on the world, so I'll show her make speeches at the U.N and feed hungry babies" seriously?
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6305064]You immediately jumped on me and started making assumptions in my post about what I considered succeeding or failing her mission was.
Also
Take your own advice[/QUOTE]
I considered your opinion, stated all the reasons why I think it's wrong, and stated my desire for others including you to change your minds.
You feem dismissed by this? You think I'm understating your mental facilities? I'm not.
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305054]What are the consequences from Diana having meetings about torture? Does this create meaningful stories that can be developed upon?
Nope, it has the same value that Leonardo Dicaprio and Angelina Jolie have on the world.
If you believe in the philosophy of a character, don't give her stories that just function as slogans. Create stories that show meaningful change being accomplished.
Stories in Holliday College can actually show Diana change the lives of many women.
And If DC eventually destroys Holliday College to reset the status quo, then just rebuild it again.[/QUOTE]
I would say they can build plenty of stories on such subjects. But this is also a superhero comic that can't devote itself entirely to solving real world problems and explore the realistic minutia that would be needed. It needs to balance it with action and adventure. Even so, the comics made it very clear that doing such things were part of Diana's full time job, unlike Brad and Angie. If they solved all the worlds problems in a cartoonish manner, it would come across as insulting by making light of very complex issues. The Golden Age stories are great, but that's not a valid model for such things these days.
Holliday College should be a fixture in the WW mythos for just that reason you list. But that would make for a great single arc or one of story here and there, but it would get stale as well. People want superhero action, not sorority girl problems. And if the Holliday Girls partake in adventures like they should, that takes them away from more grounded stories with messages and solving real world problems.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6305064]You immediately jumped on me and started making assumptions in my post about what I considered succeeding or failing her mission was.
[/QUOTE]
I was dismissive of Greg Rucka's political work in Wonder Woman. Not to you
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[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6305047]Yeah, the Superman inspiration line is one of those burns that seems profound and insightful until you think about it for more than two seconds. It probably works better for people who've never read a Superman comic.
Kind of like the "Batman would be more helpful donating his money" take. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised Johns didn't have Clark say that in response.[/QUOTE]
Or a jibe about Jason's death.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6305080]I would say they can build plenty of stories on such subjects. But this is also a superhero comic that can't devote itself entirely to solving real world problems and explore the realistic minutia that would be needed. It needs to balance it with action and adventure. Even so, the comics made it very clear that doing such things were part of Diana's full time job, unlike Brad and Angie. If they solved all the worlds problems in a cartoonish manner, it would come across as insulting by making light of very complex issues. The Golden Age stories are great, but that's not a valid model for such things these days.
Holliday College should be a fixture in the WW mythos for just that reason you list. But that would make for a great single arc or one of story here and there, but it would get stale as well. People want superhero action, not sorority girl problems. And if the Holliday Girls partake in adventures like they should, that takes them away from more grounded stories with messages and solving real world problems.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about Holliday College as a sorority. I'm talki g about extending what Diana was doing in the 40s, by training Holliday girls in science, athletics, philosphy, combat, taking them on missions.
Extend this by making it a whole distinct society, a model neighbourhood, with an alternative lifestyle that gathers scientists, artists, political commentators, entrepeneurs, public officials, and normal people, using different rules and inspired by the Amazonian ideals.
This is an amped up version of what the X-mansion was and all the X-men spin off series from characters that came and went there.
Except it would be far larger as a space, with many different political entities there and events being organized
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305099]I'm not talking about Holliday College as a sorority. I'm talki g about extending what Diana was doing in the 40s, by training Holliday girls in science, athletics, philosphy, combat, taking them on missions.
Extend this by making it a whole distinct society, a model neighbourhood, with an alternative lifestyle that gathers scientists, artists, political commentators, entrepeneurs, public officials, and normal people, using different rules and inspired by the Amazonian ideals.
This is an amped up version of what the X-mansion was and all the X-men spin off series from characters that came and went there.
Except it would be far larger as a space, with many different political entities there and events being organized[/QUOTE]
That is actually a great idea I would like to see implemented. But I also don't see how it is functionally too different from the embassy. Realistic issues would get the same amount of lip service they do in stuff like the Rucka run. Maybe they have a political event there, but it wouldn't solve a big issue overnight and take up the same amount of page space as the dialogue about Diana's torture meeting. It could be seen as being just as performative
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In the arc with the book, Rucka had Diana state outright (several times) that she didn't publish it to "get anything done," she just wrote it so people would know what she was about. The conceit wasn't that she was changing the world with it. It was just an interesting, realistic look at what would happen if one of the most powerful, influential people in the world came from a society totally isolated from heteropatriarchal norms and published a book about their views. YMMV on whether or not you find that interesting but I thought it absolutely rocked.
Also she went to all of 2 "parties" in that run. One was a way to establish Veronica Cale, the other was a dinner Diana set up at the White House because the military had stationed battle ships off the coast of Themyscira and was pressuring them to hand over the tech behind the healing ray so they could weaponize it.
And in terms of why IC's whole thing with her "failing her mission" was nonsense, the last proper issue of Rucka's first run is literally one extended monologue about how even though she's lost everything, as long as she can reach one person she hasn't failed her mission. I also don't know how someone could read that issue and still question Diana's humanity, but I digress...
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305099]I'm not talking about Holliday College as a sorority. I'm talki g about extending what Diana was doing in the 40s, by training Holliday girls in science, athletics, philosphy, combat, taking them on missions.
Extend this by making it a whole distinct society, a model neighbourhood, with an alternative lifestyle that gathers scientists, artists, political commentators, entrepeneurs, public officials, and normal people, using different rules and inspired by the Amazonian ideals.
This is an amped up version of what the X-mansion was and all the X-men spin off series from characters that came and went there.
Except it would be far larger as a space, with many different political entities there and events being organized[/QUOTE]
Is this not just the revamped Themyscira Phil Jimenez introduced at the end of his run?
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MbnEKJqpaME/Vnfq3z6PeKI/AAAAAAAAFtk/GGOkK9JgQlY/s1000-Ic42/RCO013.jpg[/img]
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I'm not talking about doing things like solving issues like corruption in Angola. I'm talking about stories like:
40 year old Sri Lankan doctor that immigrated to the U.S when she was 22, but couldn't find employment as a dictor here, and instead started working for her uncle's factory. Well one day she comes to Holliday College seeking a better life. Except some villain helped her get there
[insert story where this new character is the key to a villains plan, and in the process we discover this character has a hidden talent that gains her the favor or an extraterrestial entity or whatever, you can make this a nuanced story about her relationship with Sri Lanka, or not]
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[QUOTE=bardkeep;6305127]
Is this not just the revamped Themyscira Phil Jimenez introduced at the end of his run?[/QUOTE]
That was certainly a step in the right direction yes. But this place needs to be something Diana's relationships and adventures led her to create on purpose, not just the work of a bunch of gods and amazons. Men and Women from our world need to create it.
And that version of Themyscira wasn't a place anyone could come to and spend their lives
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305136]That was certainly a step in the right direction yes. But this place needs to be something Diana's relationships and adventures led her to create on purpose, not just the work of a bunch of gods and amazons. Men and Women from our world need to create it.
And that version of Themyscira wasn't a place anyone could come to and spend their lives[/QUOTE]
Steve, Julia, Henry Tibet, and Kimiyo (Dr. light) Hoshi all contributed in the planning of the new Themyscira. They are all from our world. And why limit it to ours? J'onn and the Warlords of Okaara also contributed.
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Alpha, when you get to write the book then you can have Diana run her 'takes over the world to make it better' arc. Only for it to then fail because comics love the status quo, and it would never last.
I repeat what other have said. Rucka actually had her do stuff that ambassadors would do i.e. attend important political events, spread their messages through influence, speeches, and literature, and try (yes, TRY, because it doesn't always work out the way people want it to) to make the world a better place. Diana's overall mission is basically an immortal trying to solve every global/united national problem, these are constantly evolving and ongoing things, that's how worlds work. You are trying to get to and end point that will never happen, this is historical fiction, there is always the next thing, it doesn't just stop. And Diana is not a character that enjoys forcing her will onto others. Taking these issues (world peace, homelessness, world hunger, refugee displacement, environmental protection, etc.) and having a fictional character solving it all is reductive and often used for comedy. It doesn't take into account the complexity of it all. Or you go full dictator ala Injustice Superman under a banner 'protection' which is also pretty bad.
I'd rather see Diana struggle and persist against a multiverse trying to fight her brand of change over a completed mission with nothing left to do.
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[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6305480] Taking these issues (world peace, homelessness, world hunger, refugee displacement, environmental protection, etc.) and having a fictional character solving it all is reductive[/QUOTE]
Who was suggesting that?
My whole point isn't that we should get slogan stories about her saying thing X is bad.
What we should have is her changing individual lives, and creating an ever changing alternative community, with new ideas and people always coming in, and new possibilities being experimented.
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305489]Who was suggesting that?
My whole point isn't that we should get slogan stories about her saying thing X is bad.
What we should have is her changing individual lives, and creating an ever changing alternative community, with new ideas and people always coming in, and new possibilities being experimented.[/QUOTE]
You're not understanding, she really doesn't those stories. You're confusing dialogue to explain a broader issue that happens to be in stories of Diana doing just what you want her to do. Silver Swan, Mayfly, Cheetah (regrettably), War Master aka Paula Von Gunter are all individuals she tries to change and have a better life.
What you're asking is basically her running a separate community (within the boarder of the US I assume), where she is viewed as a sort of authority figure and her words/messages would be followed by all the people that move there. Word spreads through word of mouth, more people join, and Diana who is already a very influential political figure becomes the leader of more or less a cult. And there are no negatives to this, like in the world of DC I mean? New ideas come in our world that she already plays a part in all the time, what if they fail? If it happens in this community then it's her responsibility and people would get hurt. But I'm guessing you're not thinking about it failing. This would just be giving her another thing to worry about. She has the outside world and Themyscira, the politics of that is enough.
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As I've been reading old WW stories, within...15ish issues they've gone from E1 stories to focusing on E2 stories to reverting back to E1 stories, each one with a crossover to make it seamless. Is this something they should bring back for a bit? Maybe with multiple DC titles.
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Stephanie Williams is doing a story with the Stan Lee Wonder Woman.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/DLCQX7J/Image.png[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305136]That was certainly a step in the right direction yes. But this place needs to be something Diana's relationships and adventures led her to create on purpose, not just the work of a bunch of gods and amazons. Men and Women from our world need to create it.
And that version of Themyscira wasn't a place anyone could come to and spend their lives[/QUOTE]
Says who? You seem to be making all manner of arbitrary rules for what counts progress when it to Diana.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6305557]As I've been reading old WW stories, within...15ish issues they've gone from E1 stories to focusing on E2 stories to reverting back to E1 stories, each one with a crossover to make it seamless. Is this something they should bring back for a bit? Maybe with multiple DC titles.[/QUOTE]
Probably not until they sort out the multiverse and figure put what do with it besides destroying and bringing it back.
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Not to change the subject too much but I wonder if we'll see some more/better Wonder Woman merch in 2023.
It's such a shame Mattel's DC Universe Classics line didn't incorporate more WW villains into the line-up. All we got was a great Ares and 3 Cheetahs (and only 3 because the Perez version was apparently thought to be too "nude" for stores, LOL). Then the build-a-figure Dr Psycho. Would have been great to see a Silver Swan, Circe or Angle Man in there, but no such luck.
We never got Dr Poison or Cheetah from the Gadot WW films either...and I don't see the current DC Multiverse line Todd McF is making delving into classic Wonder Woman characters since he prefers weird variants and edgy designs.
I know Superman rarely fares any better - they seem to prefer to make Lex, Bizarro...and maybe Brainiac figures - but at least Mxy and Livewire and Parasite have popped up in various lines over the years. With Diana, so many characters have never been made at all.
I'd have assumed Yara and Nubia would get figures, given their high profiles right now, but with Todd's negative feelings on making female figures, I doubt that'll happen.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6305652]Says who? You seem to be making all manner of arbitrary rules for what counts progress when it to Diana.[/QUOTE]
How big do you think my ego is? It's what I think she should be like, I'm perfectly aware of that. I'm providing the reasons why I think that way, and having a discussion with you guys about that subject.
That comment is totally unnecessary. You can disagree with me without pretending it's because of my flaws as a human being.
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[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6305542]You're not understanding, she really doesn't those stories. You're confusing dialogue to explain a broader issue that happens to be in stories of Diana doing just what you want her to do. Silver Swan, Mayfly, Cheetah (regrettably), War Master aka Paula Von Gunter are all individuals she tries to change and have a better life.
[/quote]
You're giving me a list of people that turned into villains and most of them examples of her never helping them fix their lives. Paula Von Gunther being the rare example (from the 40s, when Marston was actually doing the things I'm saying Diana should be doing), and the best part about Paulo von Gunther is that she didn't just become "good", she became a scientist. Diana wasn't just trying to pacify her, she was helping her find her purpose and desires (yeah the mind control belt was a terrible way of doing it, but points for doing something)
[quote]
What you're asking is basically her running a separate community (within the boarder of the US I assume), where she is viewed as a sort of authority figure and her words/messages would be followed by all the people that move there. Word spreads through word of mouth, more people join, and Diana who is already a very influential political figure becomes the leader of more or less a cult. And there are no negatives to this, like in the world of DC I mean? [/quote]
Actually I wouldn't want it to be in the U.S. but instead in Tunisia. But that's not important sorry. Also it wouldn't be a place run by Diana. It would be an alternative community on the grounds of a former college campus, created by people she helped, befriended, and inspired. She would be a role model, but not a leader. I certainly wouldn't intend for it to be a sovereign place, but sure, that seems like something that stories would eventually lead to them exploring at some point, although perfectly unnecessary since what I'm describing is more like a [I]commune[/I].
[quote]
New ideas come in our world that she already plays a part in all the time, what if they fail? If it happens in this community then it's her responsibility and people would get hurt. [/quote]
I don't get what you have in mind when you say "fail in a manner that would get people hurt", but if it fails in general, GREAT. That's part of what storytelling is. People try to do things. People make mistakes. People learn from those mistakes and try again in a different manner.
[quote]But I'm guessing you're not thinking about it failing. This would just be giving her another thing to worry about. She has the outside world and Themyscira, the politics of that is enough.[/QUOTE] She's never gonna get to change the outside world, and since I agree with her philosophy, I don't enjoy pointless stories about intitiatives and desires that have no consequences. What makes you feel as though you wouldn't enjoy Diana putting her philosophy into practice in a consequential manner?
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305705]How big do you think my ego is?[/QUOTE]
I didn't say anything about your ego so I don't know why you brought that into the conversation.
[QUOTE] It's what I think she should be like, I'm perfectly aware of that. I'm providing the reasons why I think that way, and having a discussion with you guys about that subject.[/QUOTE]
It seems more to me you're taking certain moments out of context to denigrate a run you dislike and others like. I'm not seeing an attempt to have a discussion on your end here when you make inflammatory comments like this
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305023]And this is why I maintain that Wonder Woman needs Holliday College, as an alternative community that practices different ways of living and allows people to discover their true potential and experiment. Allow Diana to actually change in the world, in that exemplary model neighbourhood of her own
Rather than inconsequential performance like in Rucka, Jimenez etc[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305028]If writers think Leonardo Dicaprio / Angelina Jolie style "activism" is good storytelling then those writers should let someone else take over for them[/QUOTE]
That's not a very good way to start or have a discussion.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6305787]I didn't say anything about your ego so I don't know why you brought that into the conversation.[/quote]
You:
[Quote]Says who? You seem to be making all manner of arbitrary rules for what counts progress when it to Diana[/quote]
You wrote these things. You can't make these claims and then ignore them.
[Quote]
It seems more to me you're taking certain moments out of context to denigrate a run you dislike and others like. I'm not seeing an attempt to have a discussion on your end here when you make inflammatory comments like this
[/QUOTE]
I've been having a discussion in a nuanced manner.
I love Phil Jimenez run and have had a specific discussion with you about how terrible it was that his worldbuilding on Themyscira was destroyed by Rucka. I've also stated many times that Rucka is in the top 3 writers that uniquely understand her voice.
This doesn't mean I can't have serious issues with how they approached polictics in WW stories, and how they characterized Diana in that regard.
Why would these comments be inflammatory?
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*actually the one about them leting someone else write the book was me mouthing off and I definitely didn't want Phil Jimenez to leave when he did.
But I don't see why this would mean something to you. Hefk do you even like the Phil Jimenez run? I've never actually read you talk about that run in a positive manner
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305832]You:
You wrote these things. You can't make these claims and then ignore them.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and at no point do I mention your ego.
[QUOTE]I love Phil Jimenez run and have had a specific discussion with you about how terrible it was that his worldbuilding on Themyscira was destroyed by Rucka.[/QUOTE]
Seems like you're the one ignoring what you wrote. This is the first time since this conversation started that you have stated anything close to making such a compliment about Jiminez's worldbuilding. In fact, that was what my "says who" comment was in response to given that you said Jiminez's Themyscira was not a place anyone could live out their lives without any elaboration on why that is.
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305835]*actually the one about them leting someone else write the book was me mouthing off and I definitely didn't want Phil Jimenez to leave when he did.
But I don't see why this would mean something to you. Hefk do you even like the Phil Jimenez run? I've never actually read you talk about that run in a positive manner[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure why you'd even ask me that when I've repeatedly listed it along with Perez, Rucka and to some extent Simone as the best Wonder Woman runs. Where you're getting the idea I don't like it, I have no idea. I've made no secret with Wonder Woman runs I like, which ones I don't and which ones I'm indifferent to.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6305855]in fact, that was what my "says who" comment was in response to given that you said Jiminez's Themyscira was not a place anyone could live out their lives without any elaboration on why that is.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't. You said I aas setting arbitrary rules for what counts as progress, you definitely didn't say anything about the invitational nature of Jimenez Themsycira.
As per that question, I know people couldn't live there, because nobody ever said anything about people coming there to live! Or is there some kind of weird kind of headcanon someone here made up where floating Themyscira was definitely somewhere people could immigrate to? Because none of that was ever close to anything put on the page
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[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6305691]Not to change the subject too much but I wonder if we'll see some more/better Wonder Woman merch in 2023.
It's such a shame Mattel's DC Universe Classics line didn't incorporate more WW villains into the line-up. All we got was a great Ares and 3 Cheetahs (and only 3 because the Perez version was apparently thought to be too "nude" for stores, LOL). Then the build-a-figure Dr Psycho. Would have been great to see a Silver Swan, Circe or Angle Man in there, but no such luck.
We never got Dr Poison or Cheetah from the Gadot WW films either...and I don't see the current DC Multiverse line Todd McF is making delving into classic Wonder Woman characters since he prefers weird variants and edgy designs.
I know Superman rarely fares any better - they seem to prefer to make Lex, Bizarro...and maybe Brainiac figures - but at least Mxy and Livewire and Parasite have popped up in various lines over the years. With Diana, so many characters have never been made at all.
I'd have assumed Yara and Nubia would get figures, given their high profiles right now, but with Todd's negative feelings on making female figures, I doubt that'll happen.[/QUOTE]
Can't say I'm optimistic on that front if I'm honest. Least not from McFarlane.
Most I could see is when the Wonder Woman game comes out he'll probably at minimum do a Wonder Woman figure based off her appearance in the game but I'd be surprised at anymore based off all he did for WW84 was her standard and Golden Armor designs. But I'll be genuinely surprised to see him ever do a figure of a WW character that isn't Diana and isn't some lame alt-design like "Donna Troy Superwoman" or "Batman Ares".
There is a Wonder Woman figure coming up in the Retro Super Powers line and an invisible jet though, so there's at least something.
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[QUOTE=Alpha;6305886]No it isn't. You said I aas setting arbitrary rules for what counts as progress, you definitely didn't say anything about the invitational nature of Jimenez Themsycira.[/QUOTE]
I said that in relation to you saying no one could live out their lives on Jiminez's Themyscira.
As per that question, I know people couldn't live there, because nobody ever said anything about people coming there to live! Or is there some kind of weird kind of headcanon someone here made up where floating Themyscira was definitely somewhere people could immigrate to? Because none of that was ever close to anything put on the page[/QUOTE]
The story had people going to and leaving Themyscira frequently. People were clearly living on the island. It's not like Themyscira was still isolated.
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One aspect I think we all are happy is gone and Im guessing was the foundation for "God Mode" during Azzs run.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/5MwcWK1OALXXcygYpxvMI8GCN4KAPxB3pJg5fAkdxAOF3z0gAh36Y5EObscs3jJbgw2WzKmUdNMJ=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/5DR9dKhwLwz3lu6Tg7BkaWoIK9FgouxQUX8IrtDteaRA38w9wrW-6xupfBu-IYCdrR7BHZPGY3Ma=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6306035]One aspect I think we all are happy is gone and Im guessing was the foundation for "God Mode" during Azzs run.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/5MwcWK1OALXXcygYpxvMI8GCN4KAPxB3pJg5fAkdxAOF3z0gAh36Y5EObscs3jJbgw2WzKmUdNMJ=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
This actually dates all the way back to Marston. When the Amazons removed their cuffs, their strength would increase tenfold or something like that but they'd go berserk. His idea was that cuffs symbolized the "bonds of love" that balanced strength, so when they removed them their emotions got out of control and they abused their power "like a man." Y'know, classic GA WW stuff.
[img]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Mavis-removes-Wonder-Womans-bracelets.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=500&dpr=1.5[/img]
[img]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/wonder-woman-bracelets-explain-moral.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=500&dpr=1.5[/img]
Personally I can take it or leave it. The general idea of the cuffs suppressing the drives of the id is interesting but turning it into Super Saiyan badass mode kinda misses the point.
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[QUOTE=bardkeep;6306083]Personally I can take it or leave it. The general idea of the cuffs suppressing the drives of the id is interesting but turning it into Super Saiyan badass mode kinda misses the point.[/QUOTE]
[spoil]That part felt like the most jarring thing in [I]Dead Earth[/I], as well as what it is used for[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=bardkeep;6306083]This actually dates all the way back to Marston. When the Amazons removed their cuffs, their strength would increase tenfold or something like that but they'd go berserk. His idea was that cuffs symbolized the "bonds of love" that balanced strength, so when they removed them their emotions got out of control and they abused their power "like a man." Y'know, classic GA WW stuff.
[img]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Mavis-removes-Wonder-Womans-bracelets.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=500&dpr=1.5[/img]
[img]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/wonder-woman-bracelets-explain-moral.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=500&dpr=1.5[/img]
Personally I can take it or leave it. The general idea of the cuffs suppressing the drives of the id is interesting but turning it into Super Saiyan badass mode kinda misses the point.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Azz’s play off of the classic berserker mode with God Mode is kind of wild. The whole shackling of a woman, because she can’t control her power, has been a played with off and on in different ways.
When the Gauntlets of Atlas were introduced, it came in another flavor as I recall Diana sayin something like she can’t wear it, because it’d make her power uncontrollable. C’mon, your an Amazon, with Amazon training.
There’s definitely some misogyny in the repeated themes of I have to make myself less to make myself better.
Call me when Clark falls asleep in a tanning bed and becomes a danger because he can’t control his powers.
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I would love that idea actually
