Wonder Woman - General Discussion

Most of [I]Bloodlines[/I] problems would be solved if it had stuck with the original plan of making it a Cheetah-lead movie and dropped the Kapatelis women altogether. Because she got screwed over and they didn't benefit that much (especially Julia). Get Claudia Black back and we'd be in business. Plus if Cheetah has the main role, you can give Giganta her mid-movie fight scene in addition to her earlier one so she isn't taken out too quickly.

That would still leave the problem of Hippolyta's characterization, but at least it would have [I]less[/I] problems. Still better than the 09 movie since Diana has a better characterization and while Hippolyta isn't great in [I]Bloodlines[/I], I still find her far less obnoxiously terrible than Steve or Etta in 09.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5275258]Most of [I]Bloodlines[/I] problems would be solved if it had stuck with the original plan of making it a Cheetah-lead movie and dropped the Kapatelis women altogether. Because she got screwed over and they didn't benefit that much (especially Julia). Get Claudia Black back and we'd be in business. Plus if Cheetah has the main role, you can give Giganta her mid-movie fight scene in addition to her earlier one so she isn't taken out too quickly.

That would still leave the problem of Hippolyta's characterization, but at least it would have [I]less[/I] problems. Still better than the 09 movie since Diana has a better characterization and while Hippolyta isn't great in [I]Bloodlines[/I], I still find her far less obnoxiously terrible than Steve or Etta in 09.[/QUOTE]

I think the writers made the best decision regarding Cheetah. There's no way their depiction of Cheetah and the Diana/Barbara Ann dynamic would ever compete with Patty's version. I'm also happy we got to see Silver Swan in animation. Cheetah is obviously a character that is going to stick around the Wonder Woman mythos and the DCU mythos in general - even if we don't always like her portrayal. Silver Swan is a character that needs more mainstream attention to help with her popularity and longevity, and this movie was a great showing for the character.

As for Hippolyta, I liked her characterization, especially in connection with Julia's characterization. There was obviously a strong theme between Diana and Vanessa as the daughters who do not live up to their "Bloodlines." They both felt they'd disappointed their mothers in some unforgivable way, and they chose different ways to cope with that guilt. It was that shared experience that allowed Diana to truly see Vanessa and help Vanessa redeem at the end. It was also obvious Hippolyta loved Diana endlessly, but she felt her role as a queen meant a certain coldness and distance from everyone around her - including her daughter. We see a softer - but still in control and regal - Hippolyta at the end when she is reunited with her daughter.

All that to say, I would make the same decision if I were a WB executive. Bloodlines is much more aligned with how WB wants to characterize Diana today.

At least Hippolyta got to redeem herself in the end and come around to her daughter, which is more than we got with Julia, who was pretty awful right up until her death.

[QUOTE=Frontier;5275291]At least Hippolyta got to redeem herself in the end and come around to her daughter, which is more than we got with Julia, who was pretty awful right up until her death.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I didn’t expect either of the Kapatelis women to show up since I avoided most advertising for it but I hope there’s more WW-media that comes along that does to the two better.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5275307]Yeah, I didn’t expect either of the Kapatelis women to show up since I avoided most advertising for it but I hope there’s more WW-media that comes along that does to the two better.[/QUOTE]
Julia was handled pretty well in a recent [I]DC Super Hero Girls[/I] episode :).

With the spreads of the post Future State teams, I wondered if you all would be interested in Silver Swan, Mayfly, or Paula Von Gunther on the Suicide Squad. This way they remain redeemed, and they're forced by Amanda Waller to do evil deed. This keeps them in the DC Universe and also allows the Wonder mythos to be a part of the Suicide Squad - a team DC is obviously highly invested in making that brand successful. What do you think, or is there another Wonder villain you'll like to see as a long-term member?

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5283242]With the spreads of the post Future State teams, I wondered if you all would be interested in Silver Swan, Mayfly, or Paula Von Gunther on the Suicide Squad. This way they remain redeemed, and they're forced by Amanda Waller to do evil deed. This keeps them in the DC Universe and also allows the Wonder mythos to be a part of the Suicide Squad - a team DC is obviously highly invested in making that brand successful. What do you think, or is there another Wonder villain you'll like to see as a long-term member?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, between it being a Harley vehicle, the very bad movie, and garbage like that upcoming Kill the Justice League video game I have no patience for the Suicide Squad so I can’t say I’m interested in seeing these two sections of the DC universe crossing paths.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5283242]With the spreads of the post Future State teams, I wondered if you all would be interested in Silver Swan, Mayfly, or Paula Von Gunther on the Suicide Squad. This way they remain redeemed, and they're forced by Amanda Waller to do evil deed. This keeps them in the DC Universe and also allows the Wonder mythos to be a part of the Suicide Squad - a team DC is obviously highly invested in making that brand successful. What do you think, or is there another Wonder villain you'll like to see as a long-term member?[/QUOTE]

Being on the Suicide Squad does not mean they are redeemed. In fa t, it would be a very easy way to make them evil again.

I'd be cool with Silver Swan on the team, I guess. It's not like she'd get much pagetime since they seem to have the dedicated Harley/Deadshot/Croc/Boomerang team. Warmaster and Mayfly, not so much. I'd love to see Mayfly become a full-fledged Wonder Woman ally, though.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5283242]With the spreads of the post Future State teams, I wondered if you all would be interested in Silver Swan, Mayfly, or Paula Von Gunther on the Suicide Squad. This way they remain redeemed, and they're forced by Amanda Waller to do evil deed. This keeps them in the DC Universe and also allows the Wonder mythos to be a part of the Suicide Squad - a team DC is obviously highly invested in making that brand successful. What do you think, or is there another Wonder villain you'll like to see as a long-term member?[/QUOTE]

There's a precedent for having Silver Swan on the Suicide Squad since the second Swan joined the team (very briefly though). But it's probably better to keep WW characters away from Harley Quinn.

[video=youtube_share;XSmcrbxGb3Q]https://youtu.be/XSmcrbxGb3Q[/video]

[QUOTE=Frontier;5285100][video=youtube_share;XSmcrbxGb3Q]https://youtu.be/XSmcrbxGb3Q[/video][/QUOTE]

Never read any of them but the three original OGN here are at the school library I work out of and they seemed pretty popular.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5285122]Never read any of them but the three original OGN here are at the school library I work out of and they seemed pretty popular.[/QUOTE]
I've read all three of them (and I've even read the novel Warbringer is based on) and found them pretty good WW stories :).

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5283242]With the spreads of the post Future State teams, I wondered if you all would be interested in Silver Swan, Mayfly, or Paula Von Gunther on the Suicide Squad. This way they remain redeemed, and they're forced by Amanda Waller to do evil deed. This keeps them in the DC Universe and also allows the Wonder mythos to be a part of the Suicide Squad - a team DC is obviously highly invested in making that brand successful. What do you think, or is there another Wonder villain you'll like to see as a long-term member?[/QUOTE]

That's actually a great way to expand her popularity, by making her villains famous outside her own world. But I'm not sure those villains would become very popular on Suicide Squad. Maybe Paula Von Gunther. Other villains that I think could stand out in Suicide Squad are Dr Poison and Giganta.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5275281]I think the writers made the best decision regarding Cheetah. There's no way their depiction of Cheetah and the Diana/Barbara Ann dynamic would ever compete with Patty's version. I'm also happy we got to see Silver Swan in animation. Cheetah is obviously a character that is going to stick around the Wonder Woman mythos and the DCU mythos in general - even if we don't always like her portrayal. Silver Swan is a character that needs more mainstream attention to help with her popularity and longevity, and this movie was a great showing for the character.

As for Hippolyta, I liked her characterization, especially in connection with Julia's characterization. There was obviously a strong theme between Diana and Vanessa as the daughters who do not live up to their "Bloodlines." They both felt they'd disappointed their mothers in some unforgivable way, and they chose different ways to cope with that guilt. It was that shared experience that allowed Diana to truly see Vanessa and help Vanessa redeem at the end. It was also obvious Hippolyta loved Diana endlessly, but she felt her role as a queen meant a certain coldness and distance from everyone around her - including her daughter. We see a softer - but still in control and regal - Hippolyta at the end when she is reunited with her daughter.

All that to say, I would make the same decision if I were a WB executive. Bloodlines is much more aligned with how WB wants to characterize Diana today.[/QUOTE]

IDK, if they were basing it off the Rucka Rebirth run, the dynamic between Diana and Barbara Ann would still be distinct from Patty's. The Joker and Lex get to star as main antagonists in multiple iterations at once, and despite appearing in animation a lot, Cheetah is always a bit/side character and never the main star like they get to be. Even in WW84 she has to share the story with Max. Silver Swan needs to be utilized in outside media more, as do all of her villains, but I'm not sure this was the story to do it. Vanessa's arc as the Swan in the comics was much more effective because it had more room to breath. In this movie, they are attempting a truncated origin story as well as doing a Swan arc, and the rushed nature impacts the characterizations of the Kapatelis women: Julia comes across as a neglectful mother who is then killed off, and Vanessa comes across as just an annoying angsty teen who's a little harder to sympathize with compared to the comic version who had to content with the death of Lucy Spears and mental attacks from Dr. Psycho.

The common complaint for the movie is that it's too many stories adapted in one short movie: origin, Villainy Inc, Medusa and Vanessa to the point where none of it is wholly satisfying aside from a "shut your brain off and enjoy it in a [I]Hush[/I]-style capacity (which, IMO, is still better than the 09 film)" Cutting out the Swan stuff would help the focus a bit. Ideally, we should have long ago had an animated series that would feature Vanessa's arc over a longer length of time, same with everyone else. As it is, it's rushed and especially doesn't do Julia any favors, and Cheetah should have probably been cut entirely since it seems like they only have her here because it's expected she'd be here.

[QUOTE=Frontier;5285100][video=youtube_share;XSmcrbxGb3Q]https://youtu.be/XSmcrbxGb3Q[/video][/QUOTE]

I've never understood comic book trailers, or trailers for books in general, but I'm glad they're trying to market Diana's material out to people.

[QUOTE=Robanker;5286042]I've never understood comic book trailers, or trailers for books in general, but I'm glad they're trying to market Diana's material out to people.[/QUOTE]
They've done them for pretty much all the major original graphic novel releases, from what I've seen.

[URL="https://www.comixology.com/DC-Holiday-Sale/page/24524?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL3NtYWxsQ2Fyb3VzZWw&list36521_pg=1&cu=0"]A DC Holiday sale going on at Comixology at the moment, with their available Wonder Woman content being promoted at top for anyone interested.[/URL]

I might have gotten some of these if I didn't already own them physically. :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;5288144][URL="https://www.comixology.com/DC-Holiday-Sale/page/24524?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL3NtYWxsQ2Fyb3VzZWw&list36521_pg=1&cu=0"]A DC Holiday sale going on at Comixology at the moment, with their available Wonder Woman content being promoted at top for anyone interested.[/URL]

I might have gotten some of these if I didn't already own them physically. :p[/QUOTE]
That's cool :).

[url]https://news.toyark.com/2020/12/24/dc-comics-wonder-woman-vs-hydra-statue-by-prime-1-studio-414088[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1XXeFjO.jpg[/IMG]

That statue is awesome!

We really need Fabok on a WW book stat. Maybe he can be one of the artists for Historia?

He's got two projects lined up for 2021 and the one he's currently working on is a creator owned one apparently so I doubt it unfortunately..

[QUOTE=Hypo;5293224][url]https://news.toyark.com/2020/12/24/dc-comics-wonder-woman-vs-hydra-statue-by-prime-1-studio-414088[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1XXeFjO.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I am loving this. I wish Fabok would do an arc on her book.

[QUOTE=Hypo;5293224][url]https://news.toyark.com/2020/12/24/dc-comics-wonder-woman-vs-hydra-statue-by-prime-1-studio-414088[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1XXeFjO.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Absolutely stunning :D.

Sword and shield make thst statu lose points for me.

[QUOTE=mystical41;5293454]Sword and shield make thst statu lose points for me.[/QUOTE]

It works for me in this instance, but I think because she's fighting a big, classical Greek monster so it seems less out of place

If it was one of her rogues like Giganta or whoever I'd definitely rather it be absent. I think it could still look gorgeous without them though

[QUOTE=Frontier;5293437]Absolutely stunning :D.[/QUOTE]

Hate sword n shield She looks like gal

[QUOTE=Hypo;5293224][url]https://news.toyark.com/2020/12/24/dc-comics-wonder-woman-vs-hydra-statue-by-prime-1-studio-414088[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1XXeFjO.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Love 99% of it...except for the tiara..that's just ugly.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5293535]It works for me in this instance, but I think because she's fighting a big, classical Greek monster so it seems less out of place

If it was one of her rogues like Giganta or whoever I'd definitely rather it be absent. I think it could still look gorgeous without them though[/QUOTE]

I understand your logic. But i can't stand the sword and shield at this point.

[QUOTE=Hypo;5293224][url]https://news.toyark.com/2020/12/24/dc-comics-wonder-woman-vs-hydra-statue-by-prime-1-studio-414088[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1XXeFjO.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

At that price it better come with a real Lasso of Truth as a bonus. :p

Im rewatching the Wonder Woman pilot movie and it just makes me sad how the bullets and bracelets origin has been erased in WWs two greatest introductions to the general audience: Justice League animated series and the movie. It's used in the original animated movie but then Bloodlines has her just stealing everything as she does in the live action movie but adds in her having to defeat Hippolyta.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5294195]Im rewatching the Wonder Woman pilot movie and it just makes me sad how the bullets and bracelets origin has been erased in WWs two greatest introductions to the general audience: Justice League animated series and the movie. It's used in the original animated movie but then Bloodlines has her just stealing everything as she does in the live action movie but adds in her having to defeat Hippolyta.[/QUOTE]

How did she find out her bracelets can block bullets? I think she just randomly did it in the alley saving steve.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5294195]Im rewatching the Wonder Woman pilot movie and it just makes me sad how the bullets and bracelets origin has been erased in WWs two greatest introductions to the general audience: Justice League animated series and the movie. It's used in the original animated movie but then Bloodlines has her just stealing everything as she does in the live action movie but adds in her having to defeat Hippolyta.[/QUOTE]

I’d have liked to see the movie incorporate it also but in its defense it would have added quite a bit more time to being on Themyscira and we were already there for quite a bit, and they kept the general idea of Diana defying Hippolyta.

The DCAU version is less defendable in my view but that was just one of many poor decisions they made for their version of Diana so unlike the movie it doesn’t have enough good to balance it out/make up for it.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5294406]
The DCAU version is less defendable in my view but that was just one of many poor decisions they made for their version of Diana so unlike the movie it doesn’t have enough good to balance it out/make up for it.[/QUOTE]

What else irked you about the character in the DCAU?

edit: wrong thread.

I think a lot of that is because the modern sensibility somehow cannot imagine a civilization of vastly superior femmes. So super science, super powerful Amazons for whom out greatest weapons and threats are but toys is something TPTB continue to move away from despite its being a hugely important part of the design. It's folly. They should be leaning into the pillars of the design not continuously erase them.

[URL="https://theplaylist.net/patty-jenkins-wonder-woman-30-scripts-internal-war-20210103/"]Patty Jenkins Says There Were 30 ‘Wonder Woman’ Scripts During Development & An “Internal War” On What The Character Should Be[/URL]

[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;5310341][URL="https://theplaylist.net/patty-jenkins-wonder-woman-30-scripts-internal-war-20210103/"]Patty Jenkins Says There Were 30 ‘Wonder Woman’ Scripts During Development & An “Internal War” On What The Character Should Be[/URL][/QUOTE]
Just about sums up her biggest problem, I guess.

[QUOTE=Frontier;5310757]Just about sums up her biggest problem, I guess.[/QUOTE]

It's about the 2017 film, not Wonder Woman 84. I maintain that Wonder Woman 84 was one of the most focussed stories we've had in superhero films. Everything was about the theme and there weren't unecessary subplots.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5310898]It's about the 2017 film, not Wonder Woman 84. I maintain that Wonder Woman 84 was one of the most focussed stories we've had in superhero films. Everything was about the theme and there weren't unecessary subplots.[/QUOTE]
I know, I didn't think it had anything to do with WW84 :p.