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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780722]Wonder Woman in general. The public knows far more about all those that you mentioned, especially Spiderman and Superman because they've been in their lives forever in various media. They can look back to Spiderman and his amazing friends or maybe Spiderman TAS got them hooked, or the OG films.
Wonder Woman is mostly related to Lynda Carter and they just now get to relate her to Gal but even during BvS so many tried to call her q Xena ripoff. They probably can't name a WW villain outside of Ares.
[B]If you think that she's on the same level as Superman/Spiderman/Batman.....well we'll have to disagree.[[/B]/QUOTE]
They can name Cheetah too. They know most of the things that have been present in her popular solo material. Lasso, amazons, bracelets, her powers, invisible jet. Princess etc.
If she isn't. It's only because DC and WB suck at handling her franchise. It is amazing all she has achieved while not even having 50% of the push those characters you mentioned have. Even harley quinn has more push overall than WW. So that proves 2 things. WW has great potential and lasting impact to be this iconic with so little effort at marketing and promotio from DC and WB side. And 2, DC and WB win the first prize as true incompetence regarding WW franchise.
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Everyone loves to mention the Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman animated series, but y'all are forgetting the successful [I]DC Super Hero Girls[/I] TV series. Just because it isn't as sophisticated as the aforementioned shows, and maybe can't be enjoyed by adults as much as its enjoyed by children, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Wonder Woman is still the primary protagonist of the show, and it also features Cheetah and Giganta in regular roles.
Would I prefer a legit WW: TAS? [B]Of course[/B], but let's not undersell Wonder Woman as her own trailblazer, even for today's youth.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780722]Wonder Woman in general. The public knows far more about all those that you mentioned, especially Spiderman and Superman because they've been in their lives forever in various media. They can look back to Spiderman and his amazing friends or maybe Spiderman TAS got them hooked, or the OG films.
Wonder Woman is mostly related to Lynda Carter and they just now get to relate her to Gal but even during BvS so many tried to call her q Xena ripoff. They probably can't name a WW villain outside of Ares.
[B]If you think that she's on the same level as Superman/Spiderman/Batman[/B].....[B]well we'll have to disagree[/B].[/QUOTE]
But that isn't the discussion we're having regarding the bolded. You said:
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780529]I love Diana but DC is just coasting off of her name and arent doing anything to elevate her more. [B]She is famous because of her overall message but ask anyone to name a WW story and they probably wouldnt be able to tell you[/B].[/QUOTE]
I responded by asking who can tell you a Captain Marvel, Superman, Spider-Man, or Batman story from the comics. Most people can't because most people aren't reading the comics. Then I expanded from the comics and said that Wonder Woman 77 and the two live-action films are something the general would be able to speak about and for some at length. Whether Wonder Woman was on the same level as the 3 biggest names in comics wasn't a part of the equation.
You also said that DC was "coasting" on Wonder Woman's name. I then brought up several partnerships that DC announced just this Saturday at Fandome or at least within the past year. These partnerships actually target various markets and not just the typical comic book market. Trial of the Amazons obviously targets the actual markter. Fortnite, I'm certain, has a lot of overlap with the comic book market and the comic book film (which is a much larger market) market. However, the Williams Sisters partnerships - which are two different partnerships - the Zales partnership, the Dove partnership, and the Tik Tok partnership are boldly targeting non-traditional comic book markets and largely markets that are targeting women and girls of various ages. With this information, it's hard to say DC is coasting when they are leveraging the brand at multiple markets in multiple ways including markets that are not traditionally comic book or even superhero markets.
Next you said, "They probably can't name a WW villain outside of Ares." However as [B]mystical41[/B] said they do know about, "Lasso, amazons, bracelets, her powers, invisible jet. Princess etc." I would add to that list, they know about Steve Trevor, her Greek mythology connection, and as much as some of you may hate this, they know she is a demigoddess and the daughter of Zeus. Just because they can't discuss her villains at length does not mean they can't discuss Wonder Woman at length.
Last you said, "The public knows far more about all those that you mentioned, especially Spiderman and Superman because they've been in their lives forever in various media."
True. However, I find it admirable and a testament to Wonder Woman that she's gotten far less media, but she is still seen as an iconic character that impacts people vastly and is an icon for Women, LGBT, and nonviolent protesters. Also, Lynda Carter is iconic [I]because[/I] of Wonder Woman and Gal Gadot is only getting so much media attention right now - like her current Elle Magazine - [I]because[/I] of Wonder Woman and Lynda, Gal, and Patty were asked to speak at the U.N. [I]because[/I] of Wonder Woman. So yes, she has far less media, but that hasn't muted the impact she has on people's daily lives. Which brings me to the original point of this conversation.
[QUOTE=John Venus;5780285]It's sad. Diana has everything needed to become a trailer blazer. Instead we are seeing Korra, She-Ra, Steven Universe and Captain Marvel starting race past her.[/QUOTE]
My major point is that Diana/Wonder Woman is not being surpassed by these other I.P.s. Even a billion-dollar grossing film hasn't gotten Captian Marvel the number of partnerships that Wonder Woman has had the past year, I didn't see a Captian Marvel section of the Halloween costume shop this past weekend like I did with Wonder Woman, I don't see women in their 50s or 60s talking about the importance of Captain Marvel in their young girlhood, etc.
Diana, in her own way, is still a trail blazer.
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Its the discussion im having. I never stated comic story, i said stories. The general public can likely tell you more about Superman vs. Zod, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Bizzaro then they can tell yoi about Wonder Woman vs Cheetah before this movie.
Superman always be the #1 superhero but he can barely sell a movie nowadays and that's a problem
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5780874]Everyone loves to mention the Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman animated series, but y'all are forgetting the successful [I]DC Super Hero Girls[/I] TV series. Just because it isn't as sophisticated as the aforementioned shows, and maybe can't be enjoyed by adults as much as its enjoyed by children, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Wonder Woman is still the primary protagonist of the show, [B]and it also features Cheetah[/B] and Giganta in regular roles.
Would I prefer a legit WW: TAS? [B]Of course[/B], but let's not undersell Wonder Woman as her own trailblazer, even for today's youth.[/QUOTE]
I'm kind of surprised they've only really used Cheetah in one episode, but in said episode she took out the entire team so maybe they realize they made her too overpowered for once ;).
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5781015]I'm kind of surprised they've only really used Cheetah in one episode, but in said episode she took out the entire team so maybe they realize they made her too overpowered for once ;).[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of when she took out the entire JL and then lost on purpose so she could get captured. :p
[SIZE=1](To bad it all went downhill for the rest of the Nu52 after that, lol)[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5780874]Everyone loves to mention the Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman animated series, but y'all are forgetting the successful [I]DC Super Hero Girls[/I] TV series. Just because it isn't as sophisticated as the aforementioned shows, and maybe can't be enjoyed by adults as much as its enjoyed by children, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Wonder Woman is still the primary protagonist of the show, and it also features Cheetah and Giganta in regular roles.
Would I prefer a legit WW: TAS? [B]Of course[/B], but let's not undersell Wonder Woman as her own trailblazer, even for today's youth.[/QUOTE]
That show is great, but it's a copout to give DC an out to point to that and can it a day-- but make no mistake, every clip I've seen of that show is solid gold.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780950]Its the discussion im having. I never stated comic story, i said stories. The general public can likely tell you more about Superman vs. Zod, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Bizzaro then they can tell yoi about Wonder Woman vs Cheetah before this movie.
Superman always be the #1 superhero but he can barely sell a movie nowadays and that's a problem[/QUOTE]
That's DC and WB's fault. The fact that WW is as iconic as she is. Without even 50% of the push and promotion that SM has is proof of how impactful she is. And the potential in WW that DC and WB are unable to use properly.
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[QUOTE=Robanker;5781086]That show is great, but it's a copout to give DC an out to point to that and can it a day-- but make no mistake, every clip I've seen of that show is solid gold.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's the best DC can do for Wonder Woman by any means, but it counts for something as opposed to the nothing several fans are giving her as a trailblazer here.
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I mean, it has a good version of Julia Kapatelis, so that's something :p.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780950]Its the discussion im having. I never stated comic story, i said stories. The general public can likely tell you more about Superman vs. Zod, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Bizzaro then they can tell yoi about Wonder Woman vs Cheetah before this movie.
Superman always be the #1 superhero but he can barely sell a movie nowadays and that's a problem[/QUOTE]
This will be my last time responding as it's clear that we're speaking in circles.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780950]She is famous because of her overall message but ask anyone to name a WW story and they probably wouldnt be able to tell you.[/QUOTE]
I responded with comic stories [I]and[/I] non-comic stories as I was not certain which you meant in this quote. I've actually done this twice now. Also your original comment - which I quoted - wasn't about people knowing [I]more[/I] about Superman, etc. You stated people probably wouldn't be able to name a WW story hence I mention WW 77 and the two live-action movies - my third time doing so now.
The point is regarding your [I]original statement[/I], which I quoted, people can name Wonder Woman stories.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5780341]I've never seen any of these other I.P.s be called iconic, none have 80 years worth of history, none have partnered with the U.N., and none have made the top 10 for merchandising sales on their name alone like Wonder Woman did in 2017, and none have had the number one costume like Wonder Woman, and none had magazine articles dedicated to their social impact by Smithsonian Magazine like Wonder Woman.
I agree that I want a Wonder Woman cartoon, but those other I.P.s have a long way to go before we can realistically say they've surpassed her.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about merchandise or anything like that.
I'm talking about artistic and cultural impact. Korra and She-Ra are seminal for LGBT youth. I've seen tick-tocks where gay and bi teens react to the confirmation of KorraSami and though I haven't seen Netflix's She-Ra I've seen audiences talk about how the Korra helped pave the way for better LGBT representation on the show. Korra also helped set a new benchmark for expectations for female led action shows and the show also helped put Studio Mir on the map.
Meanwhile, the biggest female superhero in the world is forced to play catch up due to the incompetence of those in charge of her IP.
A UN partnership and magazine articles doesn't mean shit to me. Are we going to be pointing at magazine articles 20 years from now when She Ra is on it's third reboot and Avatar Studios wraps up it's live action Kyoshi trilogy while WB hadn't done anything after the third Patty Jenkins WW movie?
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[QUOTE=John Venus;5781597]I'm not talking about merchandise or anything like that.
I'm talking about artistic and cultural impact. Korra and She-Ra are seminal for LGBT youth. I've seen tick-tocks where gay and bi teens react to the confirmation of KorraSami and though I haven't seen Netflix's She-Ra I've seen audiences talk about how the Korra helped pave the way for better LGBT representation on the show. Korra also helped set a new benchmark for expectations for female led action shows and the show also helped put Studio Mir on the map.
Meanwhile, the biggest female superhero in the world is forced to play catch up due to the incompetence of those in charge of her IP.
A UN partnership and magazine articles doesn't mean shit to me. [B]Are we going to be pointing at magazine articles 20 years from now[/B] when She Ra is on it's third reboot and Avatar Studios wraps up it's live action Kyoshi trilogy while WB hadn't done anything after the third Patty Jenkins WW movie?[/QUOTE]
There is a possibility we will since people still reference Wonder Woman being on the first cover of MS. Magazine from 1972 almost 50 years ago. Also, not only was Wonder Woman featured in Smithsonian Magazine, but it also has a Smithsonian Wonder Woman Collection.
I think what you're saying about She-Ra and Korra are awesome. More representation for LGBT youth is wonderful. I'm not certain how them being great for LGBT youth negates that Wonder Woman is also an icon for LGBT individuals.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5781109]I'm not saying it's the best DC can do for Wonder Woman by any means, but it counts for something as opposed to the nothing several fans are giving her as a trailblazer here.[/QUOTE]
Fair point. I'll concede to that argument.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5781700]There is a possibility we will since people still reference Wonder Woman being on the first cover of MS. Magazine from 1972 almost 50 years ago. Also, not only was Wonder Woman featured in Smithsonian Magazine, but it also has a Smithsonian Wonder Woman Collection.
I think what you're saying about She-Ra and Korra are awesome. More representation for LGBT youth is wonderful. I'm not certain how them being great for LGBT youth negates that Wonder Woman is also an icon for LGBT individuals.[/QUOTE]
Well She-Ra and Korra actually got to kiss girls. Diana can’t even do that, her “LGBT” status is on pretty thin ice. How she can “represent” a group that she’s never actually shown to be a part of because DC is scared of backlash? They’re cowards who want kudos without actually doing anything meaningful in terms of depicting her sexuality as what they imply it is.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5782088]Well She-Ra and Korra actually got to kiss girls. Diana can’t even do that, her “LGBT” status is on pretty thin ice. How she can “represent” a group that she’s never actually shown to be a part of because DC is scared of backlash? They’re cowards who want kudos without actually doing anything meaningful in terms of depicting her sexuality as what they imply it is.[/QUOTE]
Korra didn't kiss any girls on her show. If Diana's LGBT status is on thin ice, Korra's should have sunk into the water by that standard.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5782092]Korra didn't kiss any girls on her show. If Diana's LGBT status is on thin ice, Korra's should have sunk into the water by that standard.[/QUOTE]
Right I forgot they didn’t kiss in the cartoon. But they have in the comics which is still more than Diana has done at this point. I know Korra and Asami being together is a major part of the Korra comics, so I do think that Korra as an LGBT icon is valid even though claiming the cartoon was a watershed moment for gay rep is crap.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5780874]Everyone loves to mention the Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman animated series, but y'all are forgetting the successful [I]DC Super Hero Girls[/I] TV series. Just because it isn't as sophisticated as the aforementioned shows, and maybe can't be enjoyed by adults as much as its enjoyed by children, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Wonder Woman is still the primary protagonist of the show, and it also features Cheetah and Giganta in regular roles.
Would I prefer a legit WW: TAS? [B]Of course[/B], but let's not undersell Wonder Woman as her own trailblazer, even for today's youth.[/QUOTE]
[I]DC Superhero Girls[/I] is definitely a show I appreciate for what it is, especially since it doesn’t fall back on overly obnoxious jokes and characters screaming at each other 24/7. I’m not an avid watcher of the show, but it’s definitely something I would have been into when I was younger.
I was mostly referring to action cartoons, which where very popular in the early 2000’s. Now kids cartoons are mostly comedies. :p Which isn’t bad, but I do think it’s funny how adult cartoons, which where mostly comedies, are now action and kids cartoons are mostly comedies.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5782088]Well She-Ra and Korra actually got to kiss girls. Diana can’t even do that, her “LGBT” status is on pretty thin ice. How she can “represent” a group that she’s never actually shown to be a part of because DC is scared of backlash? They’re cowards who want kudos without actually doing anything meaningful in terms of depicting her sexuality as what they imply it is.[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing against her being able to kiss a girl on-screen although I think it doesn't help that her main love interest is still a guy (unlike in She-Ra and Korra where the engdame ship was with a female character).
Like Catwoman being bisexual hasn't really been a factor at all in her character because she's usually shown pining for or hooking up with Batman although I think the new writer for her solo is planning on making it more queer.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5780950]Its the discussion im having. I never stated comic story, i said stories. The general public can likely tell you more about Superman vs. Zod, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Bizzaro then they can tell yoi about Wonder Woman vs Cheetah before this movie.
Superman always be the #1 superhero but he can barely sell a movie nowadays and that's a problem[/QUOTE]
What makes you think the general public could say much about Brainiac?
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[QUOTE=Rightoya;5782930]What makes you think the general public could say much about Brainiac?[/QUOTE]
The LEGO games, DCUO, Injustice 2 and the upcoming SS game feature him. He was in Krypton and a big player in the DCAU. Hasn’t made the jump to the big screen but he’s pretty well known.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5783125]The LEGO games, DCUO, Injustice 2 and the upcoming SS game feature him. He was in Krypton and a big player in the DCAU. Hasn’t made the jump to the big screen but he’s pretty well known.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure if that is enough, i have the feeling Cheetah is more known among the general public who don't reads comics than Brainiac, Zod or Bizzaro let alone Lex Luthor are way different calibers.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5782092]Korra didn't kiss any girls on her show. If Diana's LGBT status is on thin ice, Korra's should have sunk into the water by that standard.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Vordan;5782096]Right I forgot they didn’t kiss in the cartoon. But they have in the comics which is still more than Diana has done at this point. I know Korra and Asami being together is a major part of the Korra comics, so I do think that Korra as an LGBT icon is valid even though claiming the cartoon was a watershed moment for gay rep is crap.[/QUOTE]
They couldn't kiss on the show because of the execs. The canon tie in comics by the shows creators has them act explicitly as a couple, coming out to their friends and family and even explored the LGBT history of the different Nations. They even confirmed that Kya and Kyoshi were lesbian and bisexual respectively. Oh and Kiyoshi had a girlfriend as well. That's way more than anything DC has done with Diana's bi sexuality after they had her come out.
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/fb/cc/45fbccd38d5cc16551e06b69fdda1a98.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5781700]There is a possibility we will since people still reference Wonder Woman being on the first cover of MS. Magazine from 1972 almost 50 years ago. Also, not only was Wonder Woman featured in Smithsonian Magazine, but it also has a Smithsonian Wonder Woman Collection.
I think what you're saying about She-Ra and Korra are awesome. More representation for LGBT youth is wonderful. I'm not certain how them being great for LGBT youth negates that Wonder Woman is also an icon for LGBT individuals.[/QUOTE]
The point is that animated shows and movies tend to reach out to a wider audience than comic books.
It's not that Korra and She-Ra negates Diana's LGBT status, just that they're respective stewards have done more to reach out to LGBT audiences and push the boundaries for female led action shows than DC/WB allows WW to do.
It would be great if we could have a future wherein all three could be counted amongst as great representation. I know folks will bring up the movies for WW but I'm sorry, they are good but still flawed.
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[QUOTE=Rightoya;5783138]I am not sure if that is enough, i have the feeling Cheetah is more known among the general public who don't reads comics than Brainiac, Zod or Bizzaro let alone Lex Luthor are way different calibers.[/QUOTE]
I’d say Bizarro and Brainiac are on the same caliber. They’re well known basically right below the main arches, hell their names are part of English lexicon [I]because[/I] of how well known the characters are. For WW Circe is basically on that tier, people are vaguely familiar about Circe but don’t know specifics.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5783433]I’d say Bizarro and Brainiac are on the same caliber. They’re well known basically right below the main arches, hell their names are part of English lexicon [I]because[/I] of how well known the characters are. For WW Circe is basically on that tier, people are vaguely familiar about Circe but don’t know specifics.[/QUOTE]
[I]Ehhh[/I], not sure I would put Circe that high. At this point, I think more people know about Dr. Psycho than Circe.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5783433]I’d say Bizarro and Brainiac are on the same caliber. They’re well known basically right below the main arches, hell their names are part of English lexicon [I]because[/I] of how well known the characters are. For WW Circe is basically on that tier, people are vaguely familiar about Circe but don’t know specifics.[/QUOTE]
Bizzaro yeah, but i don't think many truly think on a Superman villain if they say Brainiac, and i don't think Circe is even as well known as Brainiac, which is just yet another thing DC should be ashamed of.
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[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5783454][I]Ehhh[/I], not sure I would put Circe that high. At this point, [B]I think more people know about Dr. Psycho[/B] than Circe.[/QUOTE]
Thanks to the HQ cartoon, probably. Circe's biggest media appearances were that infamous JLU episode and one [I]Justice League Action[/I] episode.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5783525]Thanks to the HQ cartoon, probably. Circe's biggest media appearances were that infamous JLU episode and one [I]Justice League Action[/I] episode.[/QUOTE]
She was also the main villain of the Magic path (the hero being WW, natch) in DC Universe Online, which is semi-big (at least bigger than Justice League Action, I'd say).
But yeah, Dr. Psycho is probably the third most well-known villain after Cheetah and Giganta ([I]maybe[/I] Ares would be #3 simply because of the movie).
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5783576]She was also the main villain of the Magic path (the hero being WW, natch) in DC Universe Online, which is semi-big (at least bigger than Justice League Action, I'd say).
But yeah, Dr. Psycho is probably the third most well-known villain after Cheetah and Giganta ([I]maybe[/I] Ares would be #3 simply because of the movie).[/QUOTE]
Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but Max Lord is most assuredly the #2 spot for "Diana's most well known villains" category. We comic nerd know his true place, but not the general public...
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5783576]She was also the main villain of the Magic path (the hero being WW, natch) in DC Universe Online, which is semi-big (at least bigger than Justice League Action, I'd say).
But yeah, Dr. Psycho is probably the third most well-known villain after Cheetah and Giganta ([I]maybe[/I] Ares would be #3 simply because of the movie).[/QUOTE]
If you are playing DCU Online...your likely already a DC fan. Im not sure they gained that big of a new following.
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If I had to do a full list of most popular WW villains known to the general public:
[B]#1) Cheetah[/B] - Not even a contest. At this point she's probably the most merchandized WW character after WW herself (Barbara's got a Barbie™ :p). She show's up in [I][B]everything[/B][/I] [SIZE=1](tv shows, movies, video games, you name it she's in it)[/SIZE], and she's fresh of the heals of a Blockbuster which just upped her status even more since people are gonna remember what's most recent.
[B]#2) Max Lord [SIZE=1](sorry)[/SIZE][/B] - Like I said, people are gonna remember what's most recent. Pedro Pascal is at the height of his career as well, which just boosted Lord even more. And personal feeling aside, the general public doesn't know his comic background has nothing to do with Diana so [I]*cries*[/I].
[B]#3) Ares[/B] - Movies are the most consumed medium (tv in general), so if you're in a movie (even once) that's gonna boost you up in the public eye for a good while. Plus, Ares has been around for so long I think people just know of him in that sense.
[B]#4) Giganta[/B] - This one is a little tough since I think Giganta is defiantly a more well known character, she might not be as well known as a WW villain in particular. But she's the second most used WW rouge after Cheetah so she's for sure up there.
[B]#5) Dr. Psycho[/B] - He's a main character in a TV show so that boosted him up [I][B]a lot[/B][/I]. I'd say he's just a little above #6 which is -
[B]#6) Circe[/B] - Really bums me out to put Circe this low, but frankly she really hasn't been in anything substantial outside the comics. She had "main villain for one episode" in two shows (one which was popular, though) and a decent showing in two games (though, the [I]Injustice[/I] one was only as a cutscene). At most, I'd say the general public who's cares to remember their high school Greek mythology [I][B]might[/B][/I] naturally figure her as a WW rouge. Or maybe see comic readers on Twitter asking for her to be in [I]Wonder Woman 3[/I] and put two-and-two together. Of course, if she is in [I]Wonder Woman 3[/I], I think that will raise her up to #2 no sweat [SIZE=1](and maybe even give Cheetah [I]some[/I] challenge for #1 :p )[/SIZE].
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Edit: Honestly, now that I think about it, Ludendorff and Dr. Poison might be higher up there than Circe because of the first movie...
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[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5783658]If I had to do a full list of most popular WW villains known to the general public:
[B]#1) Cheetah[/B] - Not even a contest. At this point she's probably the most merchandized WW character after WW herself (Barbara's got a Barbie™ :p). She show's up in [I][B]everything[/B][/I] [SIZE=1](tv shows, movies, video games, you name it she's in it)[/SIZE], and she's fresh of the heals of a Blockbuster which just upped her status even more since people are gonna remember what's most recent.
[B]#2) Max Lord [SIZE=1](sorry)[/SIZE][/B] - Like I said, people are gonna remember what's most recent. Pedro Pascal is at the height of his career as well, which just boosted Lord even more. And personal feeling aside, the general public doesn't know his comic background has nothing to do with Diana so [I]*cries*[/I].
[B]#3) Ares[/B] - Movies are the most consumed medium (tv in general), so if you're in a movie (even once) that's gonna boost you up in the public eye for a good while. Plus, Ares has been around for so long I think people just know of him in that sense.
[B]#4) Giganta[/B] - This one is a little tough since I think Giganta is defiantly a more well known character, she might not be as well known as a WW villain in particular. But she's the second most used WW rouge after Cheetah so she's for sure up there.
[B]#5) Dr. Psycho[/B] - He's a main character in a TV show so that boosted him up [I][B]a lot[/B][/I]. I'd say he's just a little above #6 which is -
[B]#6) Circe[/B] - Really bums me out to put Circe this low, but frankly she really hasn't been in anything substantial outside the comics. She had "main villain for one episode" in two shows (one which was popular, though) and a decent showing in two games (though, the [I]Injustice[/I] one was only as a cutscene). At most, I'd say the general public who's cares to remember their high school Greek mythology [I][B]might[/B][/I] naturally figure her as a WW rouge. Or maybe see comic readers on Twitter asking for her to be in [I]Wonder Woman 3[/I] and put two-and-two together. Of course, if she is in [I]Wonder Woman 3[/I], I think that will raise her up to #2 no sweat [SIZE=1](and maybe even give Cheetah [I]some[/I] challenge for #1 :p )[/SIZE].
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Edit: Honestly, now that I think about it, Ludendorff and Dr. Poison might be higher up there than Circe because of the first movie...[/QUOTE]
Hmm… I think you may be overstating the impact of an appearance in one movie. Especially a movie with a reception as mixed as the one Wonder Woman 1984 received. I speculate that most of the [I][I]non-comic reading[/I][/I] viewers who saw the sequel don’t even remember that Pascal’s character was named Max Lord.
Pascal got good reviews but I wouldn’t say he was the “Killmonger” of WW84.
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I think if you ask someone who knows just the general WW "who is Giganta to you in the WW world?" they may go "....is it a villain?" but thats about it.
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5783876]I think if you ask someone who knows just the general WW "who is Giganta to you in the WW world?" they may go "....is it a villain?" but thats about it.[/QUOTE]
If they respond "a big bitch who wants money" then you marry them on the spot.
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[QUOTE=Largo161;5783782]Hmm… I think you may be overstating the impact of an appearance in one movie. Especially a movie with a reception as mixed as the one Wonder Woman 1984 received. I speculate that most of the [I][I]non-comic reading[/I][/I] viewers who saw the sequel don’t even remember that Pascal’s character was named Max Lord.
Pascal got good reviews but I wouldn’t say he was the “Killmonger” of WW84.[/QUOTE]
Eh, he was one of the most talked about character in the movie. Even if general audience don’t remember him by name, they’ll remember him as “that guy Pascal played in that Wonder Woman movie”.
And mixed reviews doesn’t negate viewership or knowledge. In fact, it might even make something more memorable since people remember what makes them feel something (positive or negative) :p
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I've seen a lot of casuals post that scan of Diana snapping Lord's neck as proof of how WW is more 'bad ass' and how she does what needs to be done unlike Superman and Batman who are wussies for not murdering their opponents. DC's been beating on that 'Diana is willing to kill, here is Maxwell Lord for proof' drum for so long now that even most casuals are aware of it.
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[QUOTE=Rightoya;5783138]I am not sure if that is enough, i have the feeling Cheetah is more known among the general public who don't reads comics than Brainiac, Zod or Bizzaro let alone Lex Luthor are way different calibers.[/QUOTE]
Brainiac headlined several events in the comics (Panic in the Sky, Superman 2k1, Convergence), he was also a major villain in Superman: The Animated Series, Smallville, Justice League Unlimited and Superman: Unbound and he's even shown himself to be a League tier villain a few times. Cheetah shows up but almost always as part of an ensemble and never the sole threat and even then writers vary on whether she is Diana's physical equal or just a feral henchwoman.
The live action Superman movie side can't imagine anybody besides Luthor and Zod but as far as every other media is concerned, Brainiac and Bizarro are in the Top 5 of Superman villains.
What do the general public even know about Cheetah?
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[QUOTE=John Venus;5784808]Brainiac headlined several events in the comics (Panic in the Sky, Superman 2k1, Convergence), he was also a major villain in Superman: The Animated Series, Smallville, Justice League Unlimited and Superman: Unbound and he's even shown himself to be a League tier villain a few times. Cheetah shows up but almost always as part of an ensemble and never the sole threat and even then writers vary on whether she is Diana's physical equal or just a feral henchwoman.
The live action Superman movie side can't imagine anybody besides Luthor and Zod but as far as every other media is concerned, Brainiac and Bizarro are in the Top 5 of Superman villains.
[B]What do the general public even know about Cheetah?[/B][/QUOTE]
Everything that they have heard about her in movies, games, TV shows etc.
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[QUOTE=John Venus;5784792]I've seen a lot of casuals post that scan of Diana snapping Lord's neck as proof of how WW is more 'bad ass' and how she does what needs to be done unlike Superman and Batman who are wussies for not murdering their opponents. DC's been beating on that 'Diana is willing to kill, here is Maxwell Lord for proof' drum for so long now that even most casuals are aware of it.[/QUOTE]
People are notorious for taking things out of context. Satirical movies like [I]Blazing Saddles[/I] are taken out of context all the time. It's not the text's fault -movie, comic book, tv show, etc. - that years/decades later people choose to remove something from context to prove a point that is often wrong.
I don't have a problem with Diana killing. I do have a problem with Diana snapping someone's neck as that's such a brutal and merciless way to kill someone. But killing in defense of oneself or others isn't this horrific, monstrous act that people in comics act as it is. I don't find Superman or Batman more heroic because they don't kill and Diana is not less heroic. Unfortunately, some villains should be killed for the safety of the world and no one should mourn them once they are gone.
