[QUOTE=wonder39;6391668]And this is coming from I'm a Fish... If anyone would know if mermaids were real or not, it'd be someone identifying as a fish! ��[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you picked up on that. XD
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[QUOTE=wonder39;6391668]And this is coming from I'm a Fish... If anyone would know if mermaids were real or not, it'd be someone identifying as a fish! ��[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you picked up on that. XD
Pretty sure there are darker skinned mermaids in the crowd of Tritons palace. Now Ariel just happens to be one of them.
Also Triton isn't a Danish mythological figure, unless he has some equivalent.
Not to mention even the OG series had black mermaids. It isn't new.
[QUOTE=hareluyafan1;6390584]Exactly.
Jessica Biel was the only good part of that movie.[/QUOTE]
...
There was a ... 'good' part of Blade Trinity???????
[QUOTE=AlexLyo;6391815]Is there any greater sign that we're lacking for good Wonder Woman stories than seeing this board devolve into a conversation about Diana's appearance? It feels like a long time since a run has stimulated much conversation about actual plot points, or even favourite panels and spreads in the art.[/QUOTE]
In fairness, this conversation started because a certain segment of the Internet has been up in arms over a video game's Wonder Woman design being a tan cashew Fenty shade instead of a medium cashew.
But I completely agree with you, there's been a drought in her comics for quite a while (other than Historia, which ended over 2 months ago). Though there'll definitely be more to talk about with the upcoming Shazam crossover event, for better or worse...
[QUOTE=Stanlos;6392292]...
There was a ... 'good' part of Blade Trinity???????[/QUOTE]
I did like Parker Posey clearly having a grand old time hamming it up as a vamp. And Natasha Lyonne in a bit part was a fun, unexpected surprise.
But I think we all know the best option if you want a film where Wesley Snipes is part of a trio of hotties facing off against the forces of darkness...
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Towongfoo.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=AlexLyo;6391815]Is there any greater sign that we're lacking for good Wonder Woman stories than seeing this board devolve into a conversation about Diana's appearance? It feels like a long time since a run has stimulated much conversation about actual plot points, or even favourite panels and spreads in the art.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bardkeep;6392476]In fairness, this conversation started because a certain segment of the Internet has been up in arms over a video game's Wonder Woman design being a tan cashew Fenty shade instead of a medium cashew.
But I completely agree with you, there's been a drought in her comics for quite a while (other than Historia, which ended over 2 months ago). Though there'll definitely be more to talk about with the upcoming Shazam crossover event, for better or worse...
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what Bardkeep said. Kind of in a no-man's land at the moment for WW stuff. Historia wrapped up, Cloonan/Conrad's run has kind of run out of steam and we don't whose coming next, and for better or worse adaptations of superhero stuff (even tangential like Diana's more slightly olive/tan skin color) tend to get more traction.
Maybe we'll luck out and something from the WW game will leak so we can actually discuss something WW-related that doesn't tie back to the Try Hard Squad game, lol.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6392121]Not to mention even the OG series had black mermaids. It isn't new.[/QUOTE]
And mermaids show up across various cultures/mythologies all over the world.
[QUOTE=AlexLyo;6391815]Is there any greater sign that we're lacking for good Wonder Woman stories than seeing this board devolve into a conversation about Diana's appearance? It feels like a long time since a run has stimulated much conversation about actual plot points, or even favourite panels and spreads in the art.[/QUOTE]
WW forum is pretty dead at the moment it’s true. Not surprising given the Cloonrad run has petered out and WW3 got cancelled. But there’s some stuff coming that will revive it a little. Donna in Titans, the WW relaunch/creative team shake up, the Paradise Lost show, Gal’s upcoming cameos, whatever they have planned for Yara and her generation, etc.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6389085]What is the difference between fake and real inclusivity?[/QUOTE]
This is fake because it's not genuine. It's all about virtue signaling and ticking a "progressive" box for the sake of this message board. Add to that it comes across as[B] an extremely easy to say[/B] band-aid used by dilettantes to ineffectually fight very real racism.
Also if it were genuine Yara Flor would have a lot more fans.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393512]This is fake because it's not genuine. It's all about virtue signaling and ticking a "progressive" box for the sake of this message board. Add to that it comes across as[B] an extremely easy to say[/B] band-aid used by dilettantes to ineffectually fight very real racism.
Also if it were genuine Yara Flor would have a lot more fans.[/QUOTE]
You lost me with "virtue signaling".
Also, how does acknowledging that Diana can be white but not conform to just ONE form of whiteness translate to be people being "fake" because they are not interested in Yara as a CHARACTER? While also stanning Nubia, Artemis, Philippus, Eoboea, Historia!Antiope,...
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6393515]You lost me with "virtue signaling".
Also, how does acknowledging that Diana can be white but not conform to just ONE form of whiteness translate to be people being "fake" because they are not interested in Yara as a CHARACTER? While also stanning Nubia, Artemis, Philippus, Eoboea, Historia!Antiope,...[/QUOTE]
That's only because you [I]wanted[/I] to be lost.
Let me give you a better example...this is Ann Wolfe as "Artemis of Bana-Mighdall"
[ATTACH=CONFIG]129927[/ATTACH]
There is absolutely [B]nothing[/B] Artemis like about her. No long flowing red hair, no Bana-Mighdall backstory, no history as Wonder Woman, no sarcasm or sharp tongue, she doesn't even use Artemis' weapons. Yet we're supposed to accept her as the character simply for the sake of being progressive? I don't think so. That's not enough, all that did was leave me dissapointed and underwhelmed. However if her name had been "Ann the Amazon" everything would be cool and I wouldn't feeel cheated.
What a gross conversation. There's no such thing as [B]fake inclusivity[/B].
[QUOTE=Nyssane;6393550]What a gross conversation. There's no such thing as [B]fake inclusivity[/B].[/QUOTE]
I don't care if it's gross it's the truth.
You say you want olive skinned, brown-eyed, Wonder Woman, but the very same posters contort themselves and bend over backwards to give b.s. reasons why they don't like Yara Flor.
Yeah I still haven't forgotten the phoney "she's boring" commentary from last summer.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393539]That's only because you [I]wanted[/I] to be lost.
Let me give you a better example...this is Ann Wolfe as "Artemis of Bana-Mighdall"
[ATTACH=CONFIG]129927[/ATTACH]
There is absolutely [B]nothing[/B] Artemis like about her. No long flowing red hair, no Bana-Mighdall backstory, no history as Wonder Woman, no sarcasm or sharp tongue, she doesn't even use Artemis' weapons. Yet we're supposed to accept her as the character simply for the sake of being progressive? I don't think so. That's not enough, all that did was leave me dissapointed and underwhelmed. However if her name had been "Ann the Amazon" everything would be cool and I wouldn't feeel cheated.[/QUOTE]
When she stated to be THE Artemis and just A Artemis?
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6393569]When she stated to be THE Artemis and just A Artemis?[/QUOTE]
[url]https://comicbook.com/dc/news/boxing-legend-reveals-how-she-came-to-play-wonder-womans-artemis/[/url]
I'd feel more cheated if she was actually a relevant character to the movie and not something you had to look up the credits for to even know it was Artemis.
Still wondering how making Diana look more like a Greek Woman is somehow "fake inclusivity" or the implication that apparently Greek-looking woman apparently can't be "super-models".
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393539]That's only because you [I]wanted[/I] to be lost.
Let me give you a better example...this is Ann Wolfe as "Artemis of Bana-Mighdall"
[ATTACH=CONFIG]129927[/ATTACH]
There is absolutely [B]nothing[/B] Artemis like about her. No long flowing red hair, no Bana-Mighdall backstory, no history as Wonder Woman, no sarcasm or sharp tongue, she doesn't even use Artemis' weapons. Yet we're supposed to accept her as the character simply for the sake of being progressive? I don't think so. That's not enough, all that did was leave me dissapointed and underwhelmed. However if her name had been "Ann the Amazon" everything would be cool and I wouldn't feeel cheated.[/QUOTE]
I'm happy to be lost when it comes to the term "virtue signaling". From my experience, it typically never leads anywhere good in conversations.
There's also more precedent in Diana being olive skinned than there is Artemis being a black woman. Johnson, Chiang, Evely, Sharp and Scott drew her that way. And I don't think Artemis in the movie was even named on screen or ever planned to have a big role. So yeah, if she was meant to fill the same role in the story, that'd be disappointing. But it wasn't a biggie
And people can find Yara boring. Some people find Donna, Cassie or the whole concept of a Wonder Girl boring. It doesn't mean they are "virtue signaling" just because they like/dislike something you don't/do.
One might say Wonder Woman's very existence is due to virtue signaling.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6393576]I'd feel more cheated if she was actually a relevant character to the movie and not something you had to look up the credits for to even know it was Artemis.
Still wondering how making Diana look more like a Greek Woman is somehow "fake inclusivity" or the implication that apparently Greek-looking woman apparently can't be "super-models".[/QUOTE]
No the implication is, in the wake of real world rampant police brutality against unarmed Black men, combined with legislative efforts to erase Black history from schools because it makes people feel uncomfortable, or the jurymandering to quiet the voice and vote of People of Color, or the rise in anti-Semitism and the increased attacks on Asian-Americans, you seem to think giving a comic book character brown eyes instead of blue and denouncing supermodels is somehow the remedy for all that.
Congratulations, keep fighting for equality.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393587]No the implication is, in the wake of real world rampant police brutality against unarmed Black men, combined with legislative efforts to erase Black history from schools because it makes people feel uncomfortable, or the jurymandering to quiet the voice and vote of People of Color, or the rise in anti-Semitism and the increased attacks on Asian-Americans, you seem to think giving a comic book character brown eyes instead of blue and denouncing supermodels is somehow the remedy for all that.
Congratulations, keep fighting for equality.[/QUOTE]
Never said it did? I don't consider making Wonder Woman look like a more Greek Mediterranean woman to be inclusive or not, it's an artistic direction akin to Cooke giving Diana more meat on her bones. She' still fairly obviously an attractive white woman.
You're the one who decided to somehow make this about how it's fake inclusivity and that apparently making her look Greek is "running away from her super-model features".
[QUOTE=Gaius;6393590]Never said it did? I don't consider making Wonder Woman look like a more Greek Mediterranean woman to be inclusive or not, it's an artistic direction akin to Cooke giving Diana more meat on her bones. She' still fairly obviously an attractive white woman.
You're the one who decided to somehow make this about how it's fake inclusivity and that apparently making her look Greek is "running away from her super-model features".[/QUOTE]
No I said originally I'm a Wonder Woman purest. You all seem to think Greek super-models look a certain way, when they don't. They can be pale or olive-skinned, blue-eyed and even naturally blonde, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
[url]https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-models-from-greece/reference[/url]
[url]https://www.listal.com/list/beautiful-greek-models[/url]
On those two pages there are quite a few candidates that fit the look of Wonder Woman.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393599]No I said originally I'm a Wonder Woman purest. You all seem to think Greek super-models look a certain way, when they don't. They can be pale or olive-skinned, blue-eyed and even naturally blonde, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
[url]https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-models-from-greece/reference[/url]
[url]https://www.listal.com/list/beautiful-greek-models[/url]
On those two pages there are quite a few candidates that fit the look of Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and this inherently gets back to the issue of "beauty" is an entirely subjective feature.
Puristry is nonsense but if you'd want be consistent than WW should still look like a 1940s pinup model and only drawn in H.G. Peters art-style.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6393612]Yeah, and this inherently gets back to the issue of "beauty" is an entirely subjective feature.
Puristry is nonsense but if you'd want be consistent than WW should still look like a 1940s pinup model and only drawn in H.G. Peters art-style.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what your big problem is with beauty. If you want an ugly, constipated Wonder Woman just say that. I'll never be a fan.
And while I'm at it, beauty isn't [B]all that [/B]subjective. There are people in the world and dare I say right here on this message board, who despite sex, race, background or ethnicity that everyone would agree are beautiful. That's not a bad thing, it's a trick of genetics and carraige. Now it's commendable that you may look a certain way, but all that can be ruined by your personality. That's why it's not shallow to recognize it, your appearance barely scratches the surface of who you are as a person unless you let it.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393622]And while I'm at it, beauty isn't [B]all that [/B]subjective. There are people in the world and dare I say right here on this message board, who despite sex, race, background or ethnicity that everyone would agree are beautiful. That's not a bad thing, it's a trick of genetics and carraige. Now it's commendable that you may look a certain way, but all that can be ruined by your personality. That's why it's not shallow to recognize it, your appearance barely scratches the surface of who you are as a person unless you let it.[/QUOTE]
Good thing most of us care more about Diana's personality then.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393616]I don't understand what your big problem is with beauty. If you want an ugly, constipated Wonder Woman just say that. I'll never be a fan.[/QUOTE]
Nah.
[COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Filler[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393575][url]https://comicbook.com/dc/news/boxing-legend-reveals-how-she-came-to-play-wonder-womans-artemis/[/url][/QUOTE]
All Patty said was that she was "our Artemis"
So i dont take any stock in it.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393599]No I said originally I'm a Wonder Woman purest. You all seem to think Greek super-models look a certain way, when they don't. They can be pale or olive-skinned, blue-eyed and even naturally blonde, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
[url]https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-models-from-greece/reference[/url]
[url]https://www.listal.com/list/beautiful-greek-models[/url]
On those two pages there are quite a few candidates that fit the look of Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]
You show some beautiful people! Not only good for WW and cast, but I also see some Jean Grey candidates too!
I wonder if people talk about Batman's and Superman's beauty the same way y'all talk about Wonder Woman's.
[QUOTE=Nyssane;6393855]I wonder if people talk about Batman's and Superman's beauty the same way y'all talk about Wonder Woman's.[/QUOTE]
Well it is a part of her power set "as beautiful as Aphrodite"
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393858]Well it is a part of her power set "as beautiful as Aphrodite"[/QUOTE]
Pretty much every female character is drawn to be as beautiful as Aphrodite though.
Clark doesn't need "as handsome as Adonis" in his description for it to be a given that he's stunning to look at.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6393989]Pretty much every female character is drawn to be as beautiful as Aphrodite though.
Clark doesn't need "as handsome as Adonis" in his description for it to be a given that he's stunning to look at.[/QUOTE]
And there are are at least three other humans or demigods who were more beautiful than Aphrodite. Not a very impressive gift if you ask me.
[QUOTE=Nyssane;6393855]I wonder if people talk about Batman's and Superman's beauty the same way y'all talk about Wonder Woman's.[/QUOTE]
People definitely argue about how muscular Superman should be off the top of my head, and Hoechlin got a lot of flake for having stubble. There’s ingrained assumptions on how these characters are meant to look across the board.
[QUOTE=Vordan;6394013]People definitely argue about how muscular Superman should be off the top of my head, and Hoechlin got a lot of flake for having stubble. There’s ingrained assumptions on how these characters are meant to look across the board.[/QUOTE]
People would riot if Superman was 5"7' or lanky. People also didn't care for Hoechlin's teeth when he was first cast and didn't like his smile. There are masculine ideas of attractiveness that Clark and Bruce must adhere.
I will always prefer a Wonder Woman drawn to seem "ugly and constipated" than one that looks like a blow up doll with two basketballs stuck to her chest and wearing a ridiculous star-spangled thong, which seems to be the preferred WW look for some people. I guess we all like what we like. :D :D
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393599]No I said originally I'm a Wonder Woman purest. You all seem to think Greek super-models look a certain way, when they don't. They can be pale or olive-skinned, blue-eyed and even naturally blonde, but that doesn't fit your narrative.
[url]https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-models-from-greece/reference[/url]
[url]https://www.listal.com/list/beautiful-greek-models[/url]
On those two pages there are quite a few candidates that fit the look of Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6393599]No the implication is, in the wake of real world rampant police brutality against unarmed Black men, combined with legislative efforts to erase Black history from schools because it makes people feel uncomfortable, or the jurymandering to quiet the voice and vote of People of Color, or the rise in anti-Semitism and the increased attacks on Asian-Americans, you seem to think giving a comic book character brown eyes instead of blue and denouncing supermodels is somehow the remedy for all that.
Congratulations, keep fighting for equality. [/QUOTE]
Well said. Thank you.
[QUOTE=Stanlos;6392292]...
There was a ... 'good' part of Blade Trinity???????[/QUOTE]
Yes. Abigail Whistler (Jessica Biel's character) was cool.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02]And mermaids show up across various cultures/mythologies all over the world.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. So make movies about those. Imagine how happy kids would be upon seeing stories from their native cultures get adapted for the big screen. Wouldn't that be a far better way to be inclusive and diverse than just brownwashing a figure from a Danish fairy tale?
[QUOTE=hareluyafan1;6394126]Exactly. So make movies about those. Imagine how happy kids would be upon seeing stories from their native cultures get adapted for the big screen. Wouldn't that be a far better way to be inclusive and diverse than just brownwashing a figure from a Danish fairy tale?[/QUOTE]
Because this is Disney and they are a huge brand who are of course going to make a film based on a bankable character they already own? Like...,duh? And their version with Ariel has wide appeal for all sorts of demographics, so why not vary the versions of her that are out there and allow different types of young girls to see themselves in her? The white red headed one isn't being erased by this.
Also, it was too late to worry about the Danish elements in 1989 with the original animated film. If you actually cared about that, you'd boycott the film for bastardizing the original Danish story's plot and themes, not worry about a mermaid (something that has no basis in reality, and isn't exclusive to that region) being black.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6393989]Pretty much every female character is drawn to be as beautiful as Aphrodite though.
Clark doesn't need "as handsome as Adonis" in his description for it to be a given that he's stunning to look at.[/QUOTE]
Yes. But it's part of WW very origin. She'd be hot regardless but...she's literally blessed
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6393989]Pretty much every female character is drawn to be as beautiful as Aphrodite though.
Clark doesn't need "as handsome as Adonis" in his description for it to be a given that he's stunning to look at.[/QUOTE]
True because these are comic books, a wish fullfilment fantasy where everyone is good looking, no one ever gains weight (except Ted Kord in JLI and Donna Troy in Kingdom Come) everyone is jacked or curvacious and no one ever has to go to the bathroom unexpectedly, or ever goes bald.
In fact I'd say superhero hair is a power unto itself, posessed by heroes everywhere. After all their hair is always picture perfect without maintenance or a salon. It's all a part of the fantasy.