Printable View
I'm hoping they don't look to dismantle what coates did. in fact, looking at the question again black panther wasn't even brought up so its interesting Duggan mentioned this.
why is what coates was doing with storm even relevant to that question presented to Duggan?
[QUOTE=BlkGldBlu;5322097]Now if they can just say they finally figured out how to have Storm in two books moving forward I would be happy.
But at least it sound like , Storm isn't fully out of Black Panther history.[/QUOTE]
She might very well be. With the X-Office expanding her sphere of influence out in space and Coates not writing Black Panther after his 25th issue drops...at least for the immediate future.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5322070]A friend of mine made an interesting point on twitter that they felt a way seeing blame for her usage being thrown at a black man looking to develop a black character. I must say I agree. I will never forget this but before Coates started writing her in B, the xoffices were writing her crying about being an ineffective leader who regretted going to war with the inhumans. she turned over leadership to kitty and was just abysmally written. the character had no life and the Coates came along with a sense of purpose for the character and he delivered.
if they wanted to coordinate with Coates im certain it wouldn't be hard to do. he was able to discuss her doing xmen work in black panther so why was the opposite difficult? its simple he just didn't want to:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/fakU4gb3YHCGie4AcIGv5hV7CYpVK47WGRighf4ShT-VjJVh-Btm-BH2UmeBNX8EY78hW3jADV7NRcLAG9re6ghFVDxEQAH9B5YEGtLjldPgQBE_APp1To7NH0NxyOL0vhmZ2D9QZA=s1600[/img]
nothing Coates was writing conflicted with what the xoffices was doing but the opposite certainly was not true.[/QUOTE]
Coates was reaching out to x-men in his stories, but x-men never reach to Coates Black Panther.
I think it is wonderful that Coates gave Storm a lot point after so long time Storm being lost on X-books.
They way Duggan talk about Storm on Black Panther books, makes you think that she is a Black Panther character and that X-books can't call dibs on her.
Coates started using Storm because X-books editors and writers let him use her
Can't help about feeling the same about putting the blame on a black writer, specially that he was the first in many years to do Storm right. What a way to punish a writer.
Coates' BP doesn't even coordinate with Avengers, where T'Challa is Chairperson. He's given Storm a few nice scenes, but his story is overlong, convoluted, and out of sync with the rest of the Marvel line. It's so boring, he can't even stay interested long enough to finish it!
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322112]Coates was reaching out to x-men in his stories, but x-men never reach to Coates Black Panther.
I think it is wonderful that Coates gave Storm a lot point after so long time Storm being lost on X-books.
They way Duggan talk about Storm on Black Panther books, makes you think that she is a Black Panther character and that X-books can't call dibs on her.
Coates started using Storm because X-books editors and writers let him use her
Can't help about feeling the same about putting the blame on a black writer, specially that he was the first in many years to do Storm right. What a way to punish a writer.[/QUOTE]
It's absolute absurdity that storm "fans" would give a writer grief for developing a character when the xoffices were literally doing nothing at that time but regressing her characterization. those who wish to try and rewrite history to fit their narratives are a lost cause and it really isn't any point in debating with that in mind.
nevertheless, coates definitely was making an effort to reach out to the xmen in his storytelling. his inclusion of adversary, the m-krann crystal, and references to storm's time as an xmen (including her time during the outback) demonstrated he was invested in respecting the xlore. name another writer who has done the same? (they can't because no writer has).
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Fi45kCXBvhJWHi2xd83ha4-2brZ6t0tqa1q51Aqd_Iu7luX9VlxYiXEvcVLJYkaDhK5wNTxlXglqnlpWXu6svEvCtD84TaikVY-2DUjx9dQbhw0aKPe7B8GtpDdcU6EHS-WZoA=s1600[/img]
also, as you said coates couldn't use the character unless the xoffixes gave him permission. its silly to assert the xoffices couldn't use her because he was writing her in BP. in fact at no point was storm not in an xbook when she guest starred in BP.
all in all I agree with everything you wrote spot on!
Of course it's about Race.
It could never be that the wishes of a more prolific and long sought-after Comic Book writer who was given the reigns of the ENTIRE X-Franchise took precedent over the writer who is using a main X-character as a secondary "guest character" in a second-tier Avengers Book in a story no one is even acknowledging.
Nope.
Black Oppression is rampant throughout the X-Office.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5322138]Of course it's about Race.
It could never be that the wishes of a more prolific and long sought-after Comic Book writer who was given the reigns of the ENTIRE X-Franchise took precedent over the writer who is using a main X-character as a secondary "guest character" in a second-tier Avengers Book in a story no one is even acknowledging.
Nope.
Black Oppression is rampant throughout the X-Office.[/QUOTE]
The only black editor on X-office left to another company. Interpret this anyway, but let's not pretend comics (x-office, avengers,DC) are really very diverse. There is a artile about 2 assistants that relate bad experiences both on DC and on Marvel.
oan: I'm so ready to see the final issues of coates Black Panther. he about to show us what storm really can do. this panel still gives me chills. how is it he shows her being an "omega" better than the xbookz lol:
[img]https://thegeekiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Storm-2-672x1024.jpg[/img]
still waiting for an omega feat from the xbooks
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322144]The only black editor on X-office left to another company. Interpret this anyway, but let's not pretend comics (x-office, avengers,DC) are really very diverse. There is a artile about 2 assistants that relate bad experiences both on DC and on Marvel.[/QUOTE]
yes it is no secret diversity is a huge problem as it pertains to the creators in comics.
Except we're not talking about diversity and the lack there-of across the Big2 and the industry.
Aspersions are being cast on the writer of one office seemingly "sabotaging" the writer of another office over the use of a character (Of Colour) because he's Black.
It sounds even more absurd when I wrote it out.
Imagine being given[I] cart blanche[/I] to do whatever you want with BP/Wakanda just as they are reaching peak awareness in the mass consciousness thanks to a stellar introduction in the MCU, and deciding to have an obscure Native American villain from the 80's terrorize the Afro-futurist utopia in the midst of a civil war with rape camps and famine? And after that banger, deciding to follow it up with a Wakandan slave empire space epic that is simultaneously overstuffed and vacuous?
Coates....
Exac-fekkin-tatiously!!!
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5322157]Imagine being given[I] cart blanche[/I] to do whatever you want with BP/Wakanda just as they are reaching peak awareness in the mass consciousness thanks to a stellar introduction in the MCU, and deciding to have an obscure Native American villain from the 80's terrorize the Afro-futurist utopia in the midst of a civil war with rape camps and famine? And after that banger, deciding to follow it up with a Wakandan slave empire space epic that is simultaneously overstuffed and vacuous?
Coates....[/QUOTE]
everything ain't for everybody. his "overstuffed and vacuous" works as you have called it is also critically acclaimed and I, as well as others, enjoyed it. nevertheless, whether you liked it or not storm making guest appearances shouldn't impede whatever Hickman was wanting to do with her.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5322134]
references to storm's time as an xmen (including her time during the outback) demonstrated he was invested in respecting the xlore. name another writer who has done the same? (they can't because no writer has).
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Fi45kCXBvhJWHi2xd83ha4-2brZ6t0tqa1q51Aqd_Iu7luX9VlxYiXEvcVLJYkaDhK5wNTxlXglqnlpWXu6svEvCtD84TaikVY-2DUjx9dQbhw0aKPe7B8GtpDdcU6EHS-WZoA=s1600[/img]
[/QUOTE]
I feel like Yona Harvey was the one actually doing the heavy lifting in that series.
I think Storm might be getting a solo book right after the run with Coates is completely finished. They are heavily hinting that she is going to be leading in some way, and not on the Quiet Council. I think this issue of Marauders that Storm is going to give her council seat to Callisto and declare what she is planning to do next. Run for president of Krakoa!
Storm for President!
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5322171]I feel like Yona Harvey was the one actually doing the heavy lifting in that series.[/QUOTE]
she did but Coates was a consultant much how Hickman is for all of his ancillary xbooks.
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5322157]Imagine being given[I] cart blanche[/I] to do whatever you want with BP/Wakanda just as they are reaching peak awareness in the mass consciousness thanks to a stellar introduction in the MCU, and deciding to have an obscure Native American villain from the 80's terrorize the Afro-futurist utopia in the midst of a civil war with rape camps and famine? And after that banger, deciding to follow it up with a Wakandan slave empire space epic that is simultaneously overstuffed and vacuous?
Coates....[/QUOTE]
That doesn't stop anything for X-office
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322185]That doesn't stop anything for X-office[/QUOTE]
I wish I could get Coates take here with how he was able to pen storm. I'm sure his account would be different.
I remember when guggenheim issue dropped where storm was kissing gambit and Coates that same day tweeted storm and black panther looking lovingly in each other's eyes. its clear there was friction then and though that may not be the case with the current writers its very clear Coates has afforded the xoffices more respect than they have him.
I just don't understand why the writers that want to apparently use Storm in another franchise need some sort of license to do so or some kind of special deal. Seems a little strange they would even request that but that's just me. The reason wolverine is used all over the place is because outside writers apparently want to use him, there is no problem is Storm is used outside of X-books but imo it is a problem if a writer outside of the x-books have some sort of hold on her where the x-team may have had something done to them like Franklyn being pulled from the Omegas because who knows what that contract said to attract such "talent."
But either way, I'm just very happy and excited whether true or not, imo it is true, that the vita penned issue of Marauders is seen by the x-team as a critical and commercial success. ^_^
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322396]I just don't understand why the writers that want to apparently use Storm in another franchise need some sort of license to do so or some kind of special deal. Seems a little strange they would even request that but that's just me. The reason wolverine is used all over the place is because outside writers apparently want to use him, there is no problem is Storm is used outside of X-books but imo it is a problem if a writer outside of the x-books have some sort of hold on her where the x-team may have had something done to them like Franklyn being pulled from the Omegas because who knows what that contract said to attract such "talent."
But either way, I'm just very happy and excited whether true or not, imo it is true, that the vita penned issue of Marauders is seen by the x-team as a critical and commercial success. ^_^[/QUOTE]
Most times Wolverine appears, its simply to sell books. He is just a figure to be snarky and hit things but is rarely instrumental to the story and the writers dont really do anything significant with him. Thats equivalent to Storm being used as Lightning Lass in the X-books in recent history which makes sense if main control of her lied elsewhere
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5322128]Coates' BP doesn't even coordinate with Avengers, where T'Challa is Chairperson. He's given Storm a few nice scenes, but his story is overlong, convoluted, and out of sync with the rest of the Marvel line. It's so boring, he can't even stay interested long enough to finish it![/QUOTE]
This right here. Storm being called a literal goddess in fearless means more in canon than anything Coates has done which so far we don't even know if it is canon. Did anyone else see these supposed Storm goddess feats in the main MU because we know Wakanda ain't letting people know. and why did Storm need to rely on someone else to reach what is supposedly rightfully hers, and if that is the case then when her people were worshipping her and kenya and she was you know acting as a goddess, how can tchalla say she wasn't embracing her godhood when she was already living as a goddess with worshippers. All Coates did was water down her history to try to make it look like he did something epic. Definitely was a bore and a chore.
[QUOTE=Havok83;5322408]Most times Wolverine appears, its simply to sell books. He is just a figure to be snarky and hit things but is rarely instrumental to the story and the writers dont really do anything significant with him. Thats equivalent to Storm being used as Lightning Lass in the X-books in recent history which makes sense if main control of her lied elsewhere[/QUOTE]
And i suspect that is why they did it. This wasn't about uplifting Storm because as the others say on the flip side Coates and Hudlin could have did there story without needing some sort of special exclusive on Storm. Instead they isolated her in the franchise and then wanted the fans of hers to adopt that book rather than do their story and x-fans had a choice where to purchase Storm. But that's just my opinion.
Then all they gave her was crumbs. So the BP office had that type of hold and no Storm and the Agents of Wakanda. Coates obviously could use her for more as we saw with that book with Misty and them. So peeps can miss me on this Coates wanted to expand Storm. Well why didn't he?
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322410]This right here. Storm being called a literal goddess in fearless means more in canon than anything Coates has done which so far we don't even know if it is canon. Did anyone else see these supposed Storm goddess feats in the main MU because we know Wakanda ain't letting people know. and why did Storm need to rely on someone else to reach what is supposedly rightfully hers, and if that is the case then when her people were worshipping her and kenya and she was you know acting as a goddess, how can tchalla say she wasn't embracing her godhood when she was already living as a goddess with worshippers. All Coates did was water down her history to try to make it look like he did something epic. Definitely was a bore and a chore.[/QUOTE]
Fearless isn't even canon, it was a anthology.
Coates's Black Panther is much more significant than a anthology
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322396]I just don't understand why the writers that want to apparently use Storm in another franchise need some sort of license to do so or some kind of special deal. Seems a little strange they would even request that but that's just me. The reason wolverine is used all over the place is because outside writers apparently want to use him, there is no problem is Storm is used outside of X-books but imo it is a problem if a writer outside of the x-books have some sort of hold on her where the x-team may have had something done to them like Franklyn being pulled from the Omegas because who knows what that contract said to attract such "talent."
But either way, I'm just very happy and excited whether true or not, imo it is true, that the vita penned issue of Marauders is seen by the x-team as a critical and commercial success. ^_^[/QUOTE]
exactly! characters like Spiderman, Wolverine, hulk, etc dont have this issue so not sure why this would be the case for Storm.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5322193]I wish I could get Coates take here with how he was able to pen storm. I'm sure his account would be different.
I remember when guggenheim issue dropped where storm was kissing gambit and Coates that same day tweeted storm and black panther looking lovingly in each other's eyes. its clear there was friction then and though that may not be the case with the current writers its very clear Coates has afforded the xoffices more respect than they have him.[/QUOTE]
I want to hear his side too. Why he is never interviewed about Storm?
Hope we get a interview about his conclusion of Black Panther
That is a good example of not coordinating and x-men writer doing what he wants
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322410]This right here. Storm being called a literal goddess in fearless means more in canon than anything Coates has done which so far we don't even know if it is canon. Did anyone else see these supposed Storm goddess feats in the main MU because we know Wakanda ain't letting people know. and why did Storm need to rely on someone else to reach what is supposedly rightfully hers, [B]and if that is the case then when her people were worshipping her and kenya and she was you know acting as a goddess, how can tchalla say she wasn't embracing her godhood when she was already living as a goddess with worshippers.[/B] All Coates did was water down her history to try to make it look like he did something epic. Definitely was a bore and a chore.[/QUOTE]
Bloody Hell!
That idea never even occurred to me. But makes a lot of sense given the history of these characters.
Revisionist Coates strikes again! --Dismantling Fictional Black Histories one poorly conceived, badly written melodramatic moment at a time.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322419]Fearless isn't even canon, it was a anthology.
Coates's Black Panther is much more significant than a anthology[/QUOTE]
I read a lot of marvel books and i haven't seen it mentioned or alluded to in a single book. but i did see the camp reference in another book and Sophia who was depowered is now repowered. At least i think that's her name. So more significant than Coate's run for sure.
And while i'm thinking of it, you know what was really annoying to me about how he wrote Storm. The way her speech patterns were. "and that is what i know of a goddess." Like you didn't say anyting, no one says anything in this book, this must be like the origin story for the Riddler cause it's full of questions and no answers. And he about to wrap up his entire run in 2 issues.
So we going to see them Orisha? Find out what the hadari yaoi really is? Stop the intergalatic empire? Save regular wakanda and burn the rape camps all in two issues? ok.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322431]
So we going to see them Orisha? Find out what the hadari yaoi really is? Stop the intergalatic empire? Save regular wakanda and burn the rape camps all in two issues? ok.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F389ab6ca06d297cc0504868e6b0106ac%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5349142&f=1&nofb=1[/IMG]
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322410]This right here. Storm being called a literal goddess in fearless means more in canon than anything Coates has done which so far we don't even know if it is canon. Did anyone else see these supposed Storm goddess feats in the main MU because we know Wakanda ain't letting people know. and why did Storm need to rely on someone else to reach what is supposedly rightfully hers, and if that is the case then when her people were worshipping her and kenya and she was you know acting as a goddess, how can tchalla say she wasn't embracing her godhood when she was already living as a goddess with worshippers. All Coates did was water down her history to try to make it look like he did something epic. Definitely was a bore and a chore.[/QUOTE]
Well there is a lot to unpack in this post.
*Coates Black Panther is 616
*Storm has always denied embracing the aspect of her abilities that would move her beyond her humanity. Her solo written by Pak is a great example of this as well as Roguestorm
*Storm didnt embrace the goddess aspect of her abilities because she has been told since joining the xmen she was not a real goddess
*Her solo confirmed that when she was worshipped as a goddess her village didn't actually think she was a real one
*He through the BP stories did a lot to flesh out her history (Her time in Harlem in BP&C, her history before becoming an Xman in Rise of the Panther, the explanation behind why Adversary feared her during their initial encounter). How then could you conclude he watered down her history when he has done more relative to her history than what we have even seen in the xbooks since perhaps Claremont?
*Other books not acknowledging stories other writers do is not something specific to coates. Its seen across marvel and is a reflection of editorial dropping the ball.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SOE4ShjtDa0Qf8eMJ_7B3balOxsRvtWdllS-mtb3v-aH99C8aViOUIL4lCji8m_nT1hCYzaNFh-wVlblPumlrHO820s_KNdJQ6fo0I2KWpjOhJLxPPSvWIJ4a0njl-K5T2l-W7YRmw=s1600[/img]
[QUOTE=jwatson;5322431]I read a lot of marvel books and i haven't seen it mentioned or alluded to in a single book. but i did see the camp reference in another book and Sophia who was depowered is now repowered. At least i think that's her name. So more significant than Coate's run for sure.
And while i'm thinking of it, you know what was really annoying to me about how he wrote Storm. The way her speech patterns were. "and that is what i know of a goddess." Like you didn't say anyting, no one says anything in this book, this must be like the origin story for the Riddler cause it's full of questions and no answers. And he about to wrap up his entire run in 2 issues.
So we going to see them Orisha? Find out what the hadari yaoi really is? Stop the intergalatic empire? Save regular wakanda and burn the rape camps all in two issues? ok.[/QUOTE]
I remember the creative team talking about it, that it wasn't in continuity and it was a anthology. Here is marvel calling it a anthology
[url]https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/fearless-1-is-the-first-chapter-of-marvel-s-female-driven-anthology-series[/url]
It's his style of writing, he want more thinking of the reader.
He has a lot to wrap up, hope he lands the end and marvel relaunches the book again soon
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322429]I want to hear his side too. Why he is never interviewed about Storm?
Hope we get a interview about his conclusion of Black Panther
That is a good example of not coordinating and x-men writer doing what he wants[/QUOTE]
yes. the funny thing with all of this is we have been here before. it happened with hudlin. people can not like Coates storytelling but to claim he didn't do anything to develop the character is beyond reaching.
also, I hope we get an interview of some sort too. he raised the bar in a lot of ways and honestly I've not seen anything yet to suggest the xoffices have anything in the pockets that would go beyond his work.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322463]I remember the creative team talking about it, that it wasn't in continuity and it was a anthology. Here is marvel calling it a anthology
[url]https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/fearless-1-is-the-first-chapter-of-marvel-s-female-driven-anthology-series[/url]
It's his style of writing, he want more thinking of the reader.
He has a lot to wrap up, hope he lands the end and marvel relaunches the book again soon[/QUOTE]
I actually thought it was canon too but thanks for the clarification.
does it being an anthology make it non-canon? can't both be true, that is its canon and an anthology?
[COLOR="#000080"]In other news, I'm growing a mohawk. On my right arm.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5322476][COLOR="#000080"]In other news, I'm growing a mohawk. On my right arm.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
yes that is exactly my thoughts reading these comments. let me know how that goes ;)
[center][img]https://i.ibb.co/KNP9ssM/Screenshot-20210111-153118-Samsung-Internet.jpg[/img][/center]
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5322472]I actually thought it was canon too but thanks for the clarification.
does it being an anthology make it non-canon? can't both be true, that is its canon and an anthology?[/QUOTE]
If this was in canon it wouldn't be called a anthology. The reason anthology is used is to separate from canon.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5322490]If this was in canon it wouldn't be called a anthology. The reason anthology is used is to separate from canon.[/QUOTE]
gotcha. that is first I've heard that.
Whew chy....one question/answer and we get 10 pages of convo lol
Although I don't understand why the X-office couldn't write the stories they wanted because of her being in BP but it's whatever. Whether you loved it, hated it or was impartial to it, it's about to end. (I'm just looking forward to seeing all the melanated heroes together for a change, even if it is short lived.)
Soooo......what would we like to see of her going to space?
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5322446][IMG]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F389ab6ca06d297cc0504868e6b0106ac%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5349142&f=1&nofb=1[/IMG][/QUOTE]
And no one, no one is going to pick up on any of those threads and actually finish them unless they are forced.
"oh let me pick up these undefined African gods the writer never even showed let alone described"
"Oh snap, all of Wakanda is praying to STORM, in a BP book Which somehow, reawakened or awakened her godhood that is more than her mutation but we don't know what." I got to flesh this out. "
The man didn't leave anything concrete for anyone to build on. All surface no foundation and i think BP is worse for it. And i think Storm was worse for it.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5322476][COLOR="#000080"]In other news, I'm growing a mohawk. On my right arm.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Are you becoming a Zebra?
[QUOTE=twisted sun;5322498]Whew chy....one question/answer and we get 10 pages of convo lol
Although I don't understand why the X-office couldn't write the stories they wanted because of her being in BP but it's whatever. Whether you loved it, hated it or was impartial to it, it's about to end. (I'm just looking forward to seeing all the melanated heroes together for a change, even if it is short lived.)
Soooo......what would we like to see of her going to space?[/QUOTE]
I'm just honestly looking forward to her being off earth with a fresh start. Whatever comes with that i feel pretty good about.