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[QUOTE=Stormy;5669778]In the Age of the X-Men (I don't remember if it's canonical or not) Nate felt a storm from Ororo was psychically affected..
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/DtNBptLa3OkmbKsRenAo47aJrJ3C2XsL4GlUMHdReU93tNsH31JTRzNmnZSpWVK5MHnFhtyO4ocAHJJqzysJVMa56dgvgtsw3p4Ah_2aarQQb02nsNp4l9R9dh984K1WSzROt5UkqQ=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
Didn't storm state that when she uses her power her mind merges with a bigger consciousness
... Storm is an empath like Jean but whilst jean is for the mind storm is for the environment the entire planet a level of connection that even jean with the pheonix force was in awe off. The only reason Nate detected her was because of the huge amount of electromagnetic energy in the storm she was using to shield them from him.
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5669811]I have a doubt the Invisible Woman's Forcefields can block psychic powers like TK and TP, but could she block Storm's powers?[/QUOTE]
Invisible woman can block to and tk with her abilities.... And as storms powers are psionic I assume she can block hers too.... But storm also has mystical control over the elements so that can affect her shields.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669803]To be frank though jean is an omega telepath the xmen as a whole the telepaths especially know it's a bad idea to mess with storms mind Emma tried it and found out, xavier with cerebro struggles to get a hold on her and she was permitting him. Her omega abilities and her indomitable will are what protect her mind. Yes it has been ignored in the past by certain writers but fact of the matter and lore established is that storm is basically a telepaths worst nightmare in battle especially when she is angry.[/QUOTE]
The only thing that tripped Emma up though was that she couldn’t control the weather she was “manipulating.” Storm had to ask Emma to let her into her mind.
[IMG]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/X-Men-Storm-Emma-Frost-Body-Swap.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&h=225&dpr=1.5[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669810]She is a telepaths worst nightmare point blank period. In Giant size she was unconscious not in control dying and also recognized jean as her friend. But best believe if she was under the impression she was under attack both jean and Emma are getting fried out.[/QUOTE]
And again, you underestimate Jean. Jean did what she had to to knock Storm out in X-Men: Red, and she was still being gentle. Jean very rarely cuts loose with her telepathy because she doesn’t just penetrate people’s minds, she fries them.
Edit: I’m not getting into this debate, though, lol. Emma has literally been able to take Storm’s psyche out of her body and she isn’t as strong a telepath as Jean. The panels and pages are there.
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[QUOTE=Micabe;5669681]I don't think it's a matter of simple forgetfulness.
It's not possible for either to achieve Absolute zero...
[B][U][URL="https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/racing-toward-absolute-zero/"]Scientific American | Absolute zero[/URL][/U][/B]
[B][U][URL="https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Glossary:Hydrokinesis"]Hydrokinesis[/URL][/U][/B]
[B][U][URL="https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Robert_Drake_(Earth-616)#Powers_and_Abilities"]Robert Drake | Powers and Abilities[/URL][/U][/B][/QUOTE]
Well absolute zero is a theoretical freeze limit in science bobby is an omega with the ability to freeze I wouldn't put it out of the ream of possibility. Sane for storm as she has both positive and negative temperature manipulation as part of her omega power.
I didn't say he wasn't hydrokinetic I said he is not an omega in that arena his omega ability is negative temperature manipulation his use of moisture is as a medium to freeze but he can freeze things without moisture like light and nuclear reactions. Also his hydrokinesis is molecular at their peak storm has direct control the very atoms that makes up the molecule of water that's a whole different level of power.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669824]And again, you underestimate Jean. Jean did what she had to to knock Storm out in X-Men: Red, and she was still being gentle. Jean very rarely cuts loose with her telepathy because she doesn’t just penetrate people’s minds, she fries them.
Edit: I’m not getting into this debate, though, lol. Emma has literally been able to take Storm’s psyche out of her body and she isn’t as strong a telepath as Jean. The panels and pages are there.[/QUOTE]
Oh I am not underestimating jean you of all people know I ama sting proponent to her power.... But Ororo is a beast when it comes to telepathic opponents she being knocked out could be attributed to having a robot in her brain.... Emma took over her body the first time which made storm understand how telepathy works abd made her an even deadlier opponent against telepaths. The next time Emma tried it she got a lightning bolt to the head instantaneously.
Abd yh jean could get in there but once storm realizes her mind has been defiled well go ask legion/xman how storm Felt about them taking over her mind.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669822]The only thing that tripped Emma up though was that she couldn’t control the weather she was “manipulating.” Storm had to ask Emma to let her into her mind.
[IMG]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/X-Men-Storm-Emma-Frost-Body-Swap.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&h=225&dpr=1.5[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Duhhh because to command storms power takes extraordinary will power will power that with exception of magneto and Charles none can rival. Infact she has the strongest will of all the xmen that already is bad news for a telepath now combine it with electromagnetic static and technical know how in how telepathy works abd you have a nightmare opponent against any telepath.
Storm's will is second to none her will is soo strong she hosted eternity with no reprecausions to her whatsoever, can withstand the combined telepathic assault of Charles, oracle and Betsy all together and that was her being taken by surprise.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669693]yes and let's not forget Jean with phoenix couldn't probe too deeply either because of the static around her brain:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0yI-uFsVANQrFskcB9tURyau5Sv0n-YDDRIqOj1i6aANRiFYa7I6jXZx7kQKF-kSFiF3zPA1D3NX=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
But this is NOT Jean using the Phoenix, this is Jean's power alone. And she does not want to intrude nor hurt her friend.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669859]Duhhh because to command storms power takes extraordinary will power will power that with exception of magneto and Charles none can rival. Infact she has the strongest will of all the xmen that already is bad news for a telepath now combine it with electromagnetic static and technical know how in how telepathy works abd you have a nightmare opponent against any telepath.[/quote]
My point was, she had to [I]ask[/I] Emma to let her into her mind, whereas Emma simply swapped her mind out as if she were simply changing a pair of socks. Mind you, I hate that Emma did this and then was intimate with Shaw using Ororo’s body - one of several reasons I can’t bring myself to love her as a character. She’s had moments I’ve liked but she’s crossed the line into abuse way too many times for my tastes and has never been made to answer for these perpetrations. Anyway, I digress. Bottom line is, she didn’t just penetrate Storm’s mind, she yanked it out of her body and put it into her own, only to take over Ororo’s body.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669859] Storm's will is second to none her will is soo strong she hosted eternity with no reprecausions to her whatsoever, can withstand the combined telepathic assault of Charles, oracle and Betsy all together and that was her being taken by surprise.[/QUOTE]
Funny, I’ve often thought the same about Jean, who has sacrificed herself - her life - a number of times for her team and the greater good. As Storm once noted:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7ddm0jXEAADbsT?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
People that think things like Jean harbors racism as a “deep desire” or that she’s weak without the Phoenix baffle me because her history and Storm herself speak to the contrary, but to each their own. In the end, this is probably why I love them both: They are both powerful to a degree that, in my opinion, is equal, and they both have wills that are transcendent of themselves and those around them. I honestly think they would kill each other if they both cut completely loose on one another. Neither would be left standing.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669845][COLOR="#A9A9A9"]Well absolute zero is a theoretical freeze limit in science bobby is an omega with the ability to freeze I wouldn't put it out of the ream of possibility. Sane for storm as she has both positive and negative temperature manipulation as part of her omega power.
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#A9A9A9"]I didn't say he wasn't hydrokinetic I said he is not an omega in that arena his omega ability is negative temperature manipulation his use of moisture is as a medium to freeze [/COLOR][B][COLOR="#FF0000"]but he can freeze things without moisture like light and nuclear reactions.[/COLOR][/B][COLOR="#A9A9A9"] [COLOR="#A9A9A9"]Also his hydrokinesis is molecular at their peak storm has direct control the very atoms that makes up the molecule of water that's a whole different level of power.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Freeze light and nuclear reactions? Seriously?:confused:?
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[QUOTE=Micabe;5669710]Jean Grey braiding Ororo's hair from halfway around the planet was most impressive.[/QUOTE]
don't forget she had phoenix too. it wasn't really a Jean feat but the phoenix. they are two separate entities you know.
[QUOTE=Mercury;5669725]That was Jean being gentle. Like with Carol Danvers, she didn’t want to “fry her synapses.”[/QUOTE]
Jean explicitly said she can't due to the static around her brain. which also coincides with Hickman. storm mind has to allow them in her psyche to prob deeper to find the virus.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669784]This is interesting. Emma Frost used her telepathy to swap bodies with Storm. However, Emma wasn’t skilled at weather manipulation and lost control, giving Storm the chance to use Emma’s powers to swap bodies again.
[url]https://www.cbr.com/x-men-storm-emma-frost-body-exchange/[/url][/QUOTE]
Emma did not use her telepathy to switch bodies with Storm she used the gun shown in the picture.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669892]don't forget she had phoenix too. it wasn't really a Jean feat but the phoenix. they are two separate entities you know.
Jean explicitly said she can't due to the static around her brain. which also coincides with Hickman. storm mind has to allow them in her psyche to prob deeper to find the virus.[/QUOTE]
1. She was not possessed by the Phoenix.
2. That was a friendly probe, if you will. That would be like Jean putting up a telekinetic shield and Storm attempting to manipulate a cool breeze around Jean only to note, “My breezes aren’t touching you because of your telekinetic shield.” That doesn’t mean Storm couldn’t manipulate gale force winds that would break through Jean’s force field, just that she isn’t choosing to be so forceful. In either case, Jean did what she did in X-Men: Red and that’s canon.
3. Again, Emma, who is not as strong as Jean, was able to remove Storm’s psyche from her body.
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[QUOTE=Micabe;5669886]Freeze light and nuclear reactions? Seriously?:confused:?[/QUOTE]
Yh he froze light when fighting against juggernaut in his solo back in 2017, and before that froze a nuclear reactor whilst kissing mystique forgot that issue and run.
But yh he is omega, omega means can do crazy shit unheard of before with powers.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5669900]Emma did not use her telepathy to switch bodies with Storm she used the gun shown in the picture.[/QUOTE]
So storm did something that Emma needed a machine to do meaning storm was actually more proficient at telepathy than Emma? Well that is interesting.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5669900]Emma did not use her telepathy to switch bodies with Storm she used the gun shown in the picture.[/QUOTE]
So a gun could remove Ororo’s psyche from her body? 😂 Admittedly, I haven’t read the issue(s).
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669907]So a gun could remove Ororo’s psyche from her body? �� Admittedly, I haven’t read the issue(s).[/QUOTE]
Yh it was a gun that changed them the first time, storm after understand the mechanics behind telepathy swapped them back without using the gun.
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[QUOTE=BlkGldBlu;5669749]I thought she was just extremely hard to put under control, you'd have to be nigh powerful To do so, which should tell you the level of threat she's up against, if somehow manage to get her under , she won't stay under to long due to her will power.[/QUOTE]
yes it is difficult and her will can free her if angry enough:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/YAnSZrolZJsp9xAOoWvw-wnR_n_4j11cDzpUajh7WwGr_M_IVeCkWHmiwpzE1EgZfL7rvkocXw5r=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GhZ6gzSSZIZiNDBy2H53ngGalPo1H0mZdZR2l6BBHtTlKr-Lawsc97EFhbrS45-UOIIN22-wOzZB=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6iK92DO5u8BWCydNzI5sOuAvyPecKQcjlbwG1FZL-6nlbJkTZsiAOezq-f_NmdB2cmb52ms_OnUj=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669912]Yh it was a gun that changed them the first time, storm after understand the mechanics behind telepathy swapped them back without using the gun.[/QUOTE]
If she had understood the mechanics of telepathy, she wouldn’t have needed to ask Emma for help, i.e., to allow her into her mind. I’m just saying.
In either case, I’ve realized debates like these will only result in circular arguments. I’m done.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669903]1. She was not possessed by the Phoenix.
2. That was a friendly probe, if you will. That would be like Jean putting up a telekinetic shield and Storm attempting to manipulate a cool breeze around Jean only to note, “My breezes aren’t touching you because of your telekinetic shield.” That doesn’t mean Storm couldn’t manipulate gale force winds that would break through Jean’s force field, just that she isn’t choosing to be so forceful. In either case, Jean did what she did in X-Men: Red and that’s canon.
3. Again, Emma, who is not as strong as Jean, was able to remove Storm’s psyche from her body.[/QUOTE]
Yh Emma did that before she tried again and she got fried so bringing up Emma is not going to help your argument. Also xavier himself with cerebro has told storm that under normal circumstance it takes a lot of effort for him to reach her mind with cerebro and that is when she allows it when she becomes agitated she causes him pain. This is xavier with cerebro the man who's telepathy is sooo powerful in of itself that he can link billions of minds at once with cerebro which greatly Amps that power saying that touching storms mind is actually very difficult.
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[quote=mercury;5669918]if she had understood the mechanics of telepathy, she wouldn’t have needed to ask emma for help, i.e., to allow her into her mind. I’m just saying.
In either case, i’ve realized debates like these will only result in circular arguments. I’m done.[/quote]
.... .... K
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5669778]In the Age of the X-Men (I don't remember if it's canonical or not) Nate felt a storm from Ororo was psychically affected..
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/DtNBptLa3OkmbKsRenAo47aJrJ3C2XsL4GlUMHdReU93tNsH31JTRzNmnZSpWVK5MHnFhtyO4ocAHJJqzysJVMa56dgvgtsw3p4Ah_2aarQQb02nsNp4l9R9dh984K1WSzROt5UkqQ=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
was him being hurt because of her storm? I know storm has created a storm to try and shield his mind from them but I didn't know he was affected by it.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669908]So storm did something that Emma needed a machine to do meaning storm was actually more proficient at telepathy than Emma? Well that is interesting.[/QUOTE]
No. Storm uses telepathy to help Emma calm the storm but then uses the same gun to switch bodies back at which point she seems completely immune to emma's telepathy and this was the real start of Ororo's telepathic resistance imo. We saw it in flashbacks of course but this imo was like the real push toward seeing her overcome it.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669920]Yh Emma did that before she tried again and she got fried so bringing up Emma is not going to help your argument. Also xavier himself with cerebro has told storm that under normal circumstance it takes a lot of effort for him to reach her mind with cerebro and that is when she allows it when she becomes agitated she causes him pain. This is xavier with cerebro the man who's telepathy is sooo powerful in of itself that he can link billions of minds at once with cerebro which greatly Amps that power saying that touching storms mind is actually very difficult.[/QUOTE]
Jean’s mind, as has been stated, is more powerful than Xavier’s.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669892]don't forget she had phoenix too. it wasn't really a Jean feat but the phoenix. they are two separate entities you know.
[COLOR="#A9A9A9"]Jean explicitly said she can't due to the static around her brain. which also coincides with Hickman. storm mind has to allow them in her psyche to prob deeper to find the virus.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Don't nitpick it makes you appear desperate...
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669892]don't forget she had phoenix too. it wasn't really a Jean feat but the phoenix. they are two separate entities you know.
[COLOR="#A9A9A9"]Jean explicitly said she can't due to the static around her brain. which also coincides with Hickman. storm mind has to allow them in her psyche to prob deeper to find the virus.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Don't nitpick it makes you appear desperate...
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669803]To be frank though jean is an omega telepath the xmen as a whole the telepaths especially know it's a bad idea to mess with storms mind Emma tried it and found out, xavier with cerebro struggles to get a hold on her and she was permitting him. Her omega abilities and her indomitable will are what protect her mind. Yes it has been ignored in the past by certain writers but fact of the matter and lore established is that storm is basically a telepaths worst nightmare in battle especially when she is angry.[/QUOTE]
yes storms mind offers feedback that will knock any telepath on their arse if they try to forcefully control her:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pZJuUZrSggU_prFyjZW-ZMEcce5VKrx91os17kpgUsUF7jEm8Els5AqqJXmR1jcsbjul7clzfIXJ=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5669924]No. Storm uses telepathy to help Emma calm the storm but then uses the same gun to switch bodies back at which point she seems completely immune to emma's telepathy and this was the real start of Ororo's telepathic resistance imo. We saw it in flashbacks of course but this imo was like the real push toward seeing her overcome it.[/QUOTE]
Yh that makes sense because she has spent time with one of the most powerful telepathic ability in the world she has a handle on how to counter it should she meet it. The problem is that the writer's enjoy forgetting this, lazy writing if you ask me.
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Jean is more powerful than Xavier and Frost combined. When Jean is the Phoenix, Jean is unstoppable as the Psionic Goddess.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669818]Invisible woman can block to and tk with her abilities.... And as storms powers are psionic I assume she can block hers too.... But storm also has mystical control over the elements so that can affect her shields.[/QUOTE]
storms powers have been able to work through sues forcefield before:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/kof8xo8F83X0NQgmU-LUpIFYylQ3StBkKVEKt92QDI_XPLFRod76bHdTUZvjvovjVRf64Vik70hm=s1600[/img]
remember though psionic proros powers are uniquely different than the others. she's actually connected and one with the forces she controls that cannot be severed due to a shield.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669930]yes storms mind offers feedback that will knock any telepath on their arse if they try to forcefully control her:[/QUOTE]
And what if a telepath wasn’t trying to control her but simply wanted to discharge a supernova in her psyche?
In either case, Emma Frost, Shadow King, and most recently Knull, have all controlled Ororo in some fashion and neither is an Omega telepath, though one was a god, I’ll grant you that.
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[QUOTE=Micabe;5669929]Don't nitpick it makes you appear desperate...[/QUOTE]
Bruh jean and the pheonix are two separate beings what jean does by the pheonix is not jean doing it. On her own she is strong enough but y'all trying to amalgamate them together makes jean look pathetic on her own and leading to this impression amongst comic book fans that without the pheonix she is weak when she is an actual omega.
It's not nitpicking it's giving advice on how to not make an argument when it comes to jeans abilities which without the pheonix are amazing on their own too.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5669934]storms powers have been able to work through sues forcefield before:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/kof8xo8F83X0NQgmU-LUpIFYylQ3StBkKVEKt92QDI_XPLFRod76bHdTUZvjvovjVRf64Vik70hm=s1600[/img]
remember though psionic proros powers are uniquely different than the others. she's actually connected and one with the forces she controls that cannot be severed due to a shield.[/QUOTE]
Oh that changes the whole storm vs sue debate since I was under the impression that her power couldn't penetrate.
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[QUOTE=Micabe;5669886]Freeze light and nuclear reactions? Seriously?:confused:?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but don't take it literally, Iceman was able to stop the kinetic energy (movement) of light, if you want to know more about that, recommend see these two links.
[url]https://gizmodo.com/scientists-freeze-light-for-an-entire-minute-912634479[/url]
[url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/cryomodeste/blog/iceman-freezing-speed-of-light-explained/134072/[/url]
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669937]And what if a telepath wasn’t trying to control her but simply wanted to discharge a supernova in her psyche?
In either case, Emma Frost, Shadow King, and most recently Knull, have all controlled Ororo in some fashion and neither is an Omega telepath, though one was a god, I’ll grant you that.[/QUOTE]
She would feel it especially if it's jean or a telepath whose mind she is familiar with abd she would retaliate HARD!
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5669946]Yes, but don't take it literally, Iceman was able to stop the kinetic energy (movement) of light, if you want to know more about that, recommend see these two links.
[url]https://gizmodo.com/scientists-freeze-light-for-an-entire-minute-912634479[/url]
[url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/cryomodeste/blog/iceman-freezing-speed-of-light-explained/134072/[/url][/QUOTE]
Yh that's more accurate and just as impressive
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[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;5669882]But this is NOT Jean using the Phoenix, this is Jean's power alone. And she does not want to intrude nor hurt her friend.[/QUOTE]
yes it was.
phoenix AND Cerebro actually:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SYG98KmBCVuIyuT7HhzDgNHt7LOMqGzAvyZ6_5Em0VnaXPo_GrOt83VSn7H1ZjvJqo8LZUmIlKCh=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/mS7kVL01nwcdJjYBr41c04nlzvulKThf9HoH8c0ZqDqM5L_lan6hqxskhPhbDSWJDbOlMwLl-ksd=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xI_ohg-7guRY8BfsmIZcYpSz3dZHppkMrN_CSgu4xzCRSVxDXlAsFGsR6XQPvSPas8ZO8yCI_OW=s1600[/img]
her mind was able to host the entirety of eternity. Claremont established many moons ago that her will was one the strongest in the mu and many writers just choose to ignore that.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5669903]1. She was not possessed by the Phoenix.
2. That was a friendly probe, if you will. That would be like Jean putting up a telekinetic shield and Storm attempting to manipulate a cool breeze around Jean only to note, “My breezes aren’t touching you because of your telekinetic shield.” That doesn’t mean Storm couldn’t manipulate gale force winds that would break through Jean’s force field, just that she isn’t choosing to be so forceful. In either case, Jean did what she did in X-Men: Red and that’s canon.
3. Again, Emma, who is not as strong as Jean, was able to remove Storm’s psyche from her body.[/QUOTE]
[CENTER][img]https://i.postimg.cc/4xL1v0GG/QFT.jpg[/img][/CENTER]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5669940]Bruh jean and the pheonix are two separate beings what jean does by the pheonix is not jean doing it. On her own she is strong enough but y'all trying to amalgamate them together makes jean look pathetic on her own and leading to this impression amongst comic book fans that without the pheonix she is weak when she is an actual omega.
It's not nitpicking it's giving advice on how to not make an argument when it comes to jeans abilities which without the pheonix are amazing on their own too.[/QUOTE]
Jean didn’t need the Phoenix Force nor was she in possession of it when she took down Storm, who was out of control, mind you, i.e., she wasn’t holding back, in X-Men: Red.
Frankly, I prefer Jean to be distinguished from the Phoenix Force. She doesn’t need it to siphon psychic energy or to become a being of pure psionic force; she does that all on her own, along with knocking Gladiator, a gang of Silver Surfers, and Galactus on their asses.
I’ve realized why these debates go nowhere. While I am fine with admitting Jean and Storm are equals, some in this thread feel the need to proclaim that Storm has no equal, which is laughable.
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Now since when did this thread become Storm and friends? Take that mess outta here please. Have some respect for she who swam with Acanti, the Wind Rider, Hadari Yao, Regent Of Mars and the Voice of Sol!!