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dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719295]Yeah...not resurrecting this [b]without consent given[/b].
It's dead AdV...let it rest in peace.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/4IdmIwyEBygAAAAM/gretchen-disappointed.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Stormy;5719297]In this discussion, if Storm just used its mutated powers to accelerate plant growth, it reminded me of the issue ([B]Empyre: Fallout Fantastic Four[/B]) where Thor used his hereditary powers of Gaea to revive the flora of a dead planet, I find it amazing that Ororo only used the path of science and her mutant powers to make plants germinate faster, just like she using her divine powers.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Efy4m69ujyjAtEYwYtNxeQxFqyuWmiMHYVi6pYS49zwikysrsFQt8MjQDgCZlkLUhUJ-KsCxeeoq1jeWLla9M8pc7J4ZQ0OGSH3f9OsiKYCygCpvXPxAF--0FNr0fK2Q8UeqdnPk=s0[/img]
Remember what Coates wrote of what Hadari Yao means
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0-SAcW26139e1p2GZeWLGWRrf3s-46fB_14A8eqi6GCY18ZYGOVxN5khD_7rp9NkjTl4tnAWfi_B31p8YgHshouaehKYNbu9Wci9iUM-QZsBWYu_Wld7mgs_clz4KCotbeVd6vieBg=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
That's about it...
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719309]dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.[/QUOTE]
In fact he can, but not using the same feature as the Storm, as he can extract extra-dimensional energies, resort to Vinshattis and the like, I think as a Supreme Mage he is extremely versatile in using various mythic arts.
[QUOTE=Amazona dos ventos;5719316]That's about it...[/QUOTE]
Thank you, gatinha
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719230]There is a difference between godlike and godly. Yh storm can use divine magic but storm's divinity isn't divine magic it's more of a transcendent thing. Storm when she activates her godhead becomes a transcended t being with transcendent energy running through her. As a zenith existence as a god she has access to all forms of energy and magics including divine. Being a god doesn't automatically make one magical but gods can use magical energy to do things. But all in all the hadari yao hasn't done anything well magical yet. It could be that the great mystical potential latent within storm as stated by strange, is different from her godhead as she seems to share a card with two of the most powerful sorcerer's in all of comics. The problem is we haven't seen much evidence of her magic aside the belasco limbo magik storyline and her channeling magical energy too potent for a hell lord to create a portal.[/QUOTE]
Even gods in marvel are still stated to having Godlike power like Odin and Zeus. Galactus was stated to have Godlike power even the celestials. Storm has done something magic she literally transforms faith into magic to defeat Adversary. You can literally can not defeat Adversary without high-tier magic. Also, Storm was born with her godhead she unlocked it in BP. Which means she's born a god and will always be a god. It goes beyond even her mutation which is apart of her DNA. There is literally no other way around Storm using divine magic to defeat Adversary sorry. Also, the Belasco instance is Storm using white magic.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5719326]In fact he can, but not using the same feature as the Storm, as he can extract extra-dimensional energies, resort to Vinshattis and the like, I think as a Supreme Mage he is extremely versatile in using various mythic arts.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think she/he meant Storm can summon that magical energy herself while Dr. Strange invokes Osthur, her son, and the other dude.
Now it could be argued Storm's godhead also invokes Oshtur for magic. When she unlocked her divinity and faith she mentioned: "bright lady" which is Osthut name.
Just like Chaos King is an Aspect of Oblivion. Storm's godhead could be an aspect of Oshtur powers since she did favor her ancestors.
When it comes to magical energies I expect Ororo to follow Topaz “model” but in a much more powerful way, to be able to generate your own mystical energies is considered somewhat of a privilege in the marvel universe
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/47F41C10-EF45-4E21-98E7-C1190ED9E83E.jpeg[/IMG]
Also lets not forget that Ororo’s mutant godhood puts her on a very special level even when compared to your run of the mill asgardian god
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/63B6D651-0755-4130-8D84-36AF2450EEAE.jpeg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Daedra;5719388]When it comes to magical energies I expect Ororo to follow Topaz “model” but in a much more powerful way, to be able to generate your own mystical energies is considered somewhat of a privilege in the marvel universe
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/47F41C10-EF45-4E21-98E7-C1190ED9E83E.jpeg[/IMG]
Also lets not forget that OroroÂ’s mutant godhood puts her on a very special level even when compared to your run of the mill asgardian god
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/63B6D651-0755-4130-8D84-36AF2450EEAE.jpeg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It could be that hadari yao allows storm to generate immeasurable amounts of divine energy to the extent of generating a force such the Odinforce or pheonixforce. But her mystic side allows her to channel this energy to spells incantation s and what have you, whilst her mutant side uses this bottomless wellspring as a bigger boost to even more unfathomable levels of power.... The way the mutant energy from M day was able to make Vulcan past omega could be a parallel to how hadari yao's energy gives storm the ability to at least temporarily defy all comprehension even by omega mutant standards. This would make knull's statement about her become clearer and Duggan's response of omegas omega in focus.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5719297]In this discussion, if Storm just used its mutated powers to accelerate plant growth, it reminded me of the issue ([B]Empyre: Fallout Fantastic Four[/B]) where Thor used his hereditary powers of Gaea to revive the flora of a dead planet, I find it amazing that Ororo only used the path of science and her mutant powers to make plants germinate faster, just like she using her divine powers.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Efy4m69ujyjAtEYwYtNxeQxFqyuWmiMHYVi6pYS49zwikysrsFQt8MjQDgCZlkLUhUJ-KsCxeeoq1jeWLla9M8pc7J4ZQ0OGSH3f9OsiKYCygCpvXPxAF--0FNr0fK2Q8UeqdnPk=s0[/img]
Remember what Coates wrote of what Hadari Yao means
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0-SAcW26139e1p2GZeWLGWRrf3s-46fB_14A8eqi6GCY18ZYGOVxN5khD_7rp9NkjTl4tnAWfi_B31p8YgHshouaehKYNbu9Wci9iUM-QZsBWYu_Wld7mgs_clz4KCotbeVd6vieBg=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
ALL NATURAL THINGS which includes plants tooo.
[QUOTE=WallStreeter;5719303]The Adversary cannot be defeated by non magical means. Period. So her tapping into the faith of Wakanda to empower herself to defeat the Adversary is magic.
ThereÂ’s no getting around it.[/QUOTE]
Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719309]dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.[/QUOTE]
Gods have access to divine magic but not all gods use divine magic to do their thing. Like I stated being a god is a state of existence which affords one certain advantages one being access to higher forms of energy and power. Divinity is not magic it's a state of existence and mortals can use divine magic of given access to it like wanda using the divine chaos magic.
[QUOTE=KLY360;5719349]Even gods in marvel are still stated to having Godlike power like Odin and Zeus. Galactus was stated to have Godlike power even the celestials. Storm has done something magic she literally transforms faith into magic to defeat Adversary. You can literally can not defeat Adversary without high-tier magic. Also, Storm was born with her godhead she unlocked it in BP. Which means she's born a god and will always be a god. It goes beyond even her mutation which is apart of her DNA. There is literally no other way around Storm using divine magic to defeat Adversary sorry. Also, the Belasco instance is Storm using white magic.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing I don't think you need magic to necessarily beat adversary because I doubt if he came face to face with the pheonix force he would survive the encounter and the Phoenix doesn't use magic it uses pure psionic force. Also isn't he like very vulnerable to metal?
How I see it is that storm is simply above him in every aspect when it comes to divinity he governs in chaos which is a natural function of nature and hadari yao governs well the balance between all natural things and I would argue even chaos. I believe that's why he was afraid of her and forge because forge knew the magic to seal him up, but storm was simply bigger than he could handle if her godhood revealed itself.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719448]That's the thing I don't think you need magic to necessarily beat adversary because I doubt if he came face to face with the pheonix force he would survive the encounter and the Phoenix doesn't use magic it uses pure psionic force. Also isn't he like very vulnerable to metal?
How I see it is that storm is simply above him in every aspect when it comes to divinity he governs in chaos which is a natural function of nature and hadari yao governs well the balance between all natural things and I would argue even chaos. I believe that's why he was afraid of her and forge because forge knew the magic to seal him up, but storm was simply bigger than he could handle if her godhood revealed itself.[/QUOTE]
That would not be true. The Phoenix was literally the important key to making the matrix which is a magical energy that permeates the omniverse. Not to mention he took Roma at full power. When the Matrix energy collapsed Roma used the magical energy of the Otherworld to sustain her and the Starlight Citadel which is the nexus of all dimensions in the Marvel multiverse the same way the matrix energy did. It has been Retcon that the source of magic is from Otherworld along with Megan using the energy of Otherworld to close the rift in reality created by the Chaos wave.
This means Adversary has been struck by Roma's full power who was using the pan-dimensional energy of Otherworld did absolutely nothing but make him laugh. This is why it's better to defeat him with this spirit spell that cuts him off from Chaos which is the source of his powers and seals him in the prison dimension.
The phoenix powers are also isn't physical it's literally abstract and exists in plane of reality with other Abstracts. Not only helped make the matrix energy but also fought against the Chaos Wave.
As already shown Storm powers mutant powers are physical and couldn't even shove in through a portal through the '80s. He also tanked molecular dispersion canon which Forged used against him which is how I know Storm mutant powers aren't even scratching him.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719430]Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.[/QUOTE]
Forge with the spirit spell and he was powerful enough to fight Darkchylde Magik in Limbo stated Adversary was stronger than him. But he still defeated Adversary
[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297012/7610214-7112909-9017935295-eg3qcihx4aap_w3%282%29.jpeg[/IMG]
One could argue that she is way more powerful than him but her goddess title also gives off the same characteristics as the spirit spell. She can crush evil and dispense salvation with equal force and passion. As shown the spirit spell crushes the Adversary power source which is Chaos.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/x8lVrP2QOuAGlOHnjjjELSMS-lRG3zagq3LY3vvl5rkD0FOmcjdcgToWZeXUX2feygrxp9steYQ3=s1600[/IMG]
Roma herself backed by the pandimensional energies of Otherworld was stated to be Good vs Evil, Order vs Chaos, and Dark vs Light yet was defeated. She has the same characters as Goddess Storm powers. Roma even has a multiverse called the realm of order.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gVw0qL0c9rll0fpTyo-K6zRXlIijtVHX14n_CTxDov-674CESBj31VIAgrOrMezvc8tslGWELd5g=s1600[/IMG]
Which means Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forge Spirit Spell which would never fully defeat Adversary and Roma's ordered based powers
Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Adversary
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719430]Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.[/QUOTE]
Wakanda activated that Godhood by powering her with belief and faith. This is the ultimate in magic.
[QUOTE=KLY360;5719492]Forge with the spirit spell and he was powerful enough to fight Darkchylde Magik in Limbo stated Adversary was stronger than him. But he still defeated Adversary
[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297012/7610214-7112909-9017935295-eg3qcihx4aap_w3%282%29.jpeg[/IMG]
One could argue that she is way more powerful than him but her goddess title also gives off the same characteristics as the spirit spell. She can crush evil and dispense salvation with equal force and passion. As shown the spirit spell crushes the Adversary power source which is Chaos.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/x8lVrP2QOuAGlOHnjjjELSMS-lRG3zagq3LY3vvl5rkD0FOmcjdcgToWZeXUX2feygrxp9steYQ3=s1600[/IMG]
Roma herself backed by the pandimensional energies of Otherworld was stated to be Good vs Evil, Order vs Chaos, and Dark vs Light yet was defeated. She has the same characters as Goddess Storm powers. Roma even has a multiverse called the realm of order.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gVw0qL0c9rll0fpTyo-K6zRXlIijtVHX14n_CTxDov-674CESBj31VIAgrOrMezvc8tslGWELd5g=s1600[/IMG]
Which means Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forge Spirit Spell which would never fully defeat Adversary and Roma's ordered based powers
Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Adversary[/QUOTE]
Yh exactly storm is simply greater than he is. Thats why I do not believe it was magic that she used to smite him because the wakandans had already cast the spell it was left with how to get him in and that's what hadari yao did she pushed him into the spell to be sealed with no effort.
[QUOTE=WallStreeter;5719503]Wakanda activated that Godhood by powering her with belief and faith. This is the ultimate in magic.[/QUOTE]
Fam godhood isn't magic it's transcendence not magic yes gods can use magic but it doesn't mean everything gods use are magic based case in point the cosmic gods in marvel ala galactus, pheonix, living tribunal, eternity and such. These beings have unlimited reservoirs of cosmic energy which can translate to fuel spells and such. This page best explains this divinity is a source of power that allows one to ascend to a transcendent state of being. And the level of divinity is variable, hence why hadari yao >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adversary because her divinity which is her wellspring of power is simply essentially limitless. There are three levels to divinities we have leser for(demo gods and minor gods) we have greater (Thor, hades and Poseidon) and finally supreme(Gaia, Zeus, Ra, Odin and divine leaders of a pantheon).
I doubt adversary is a minor or lesser deity he has the divine power to affect the multiverse and storm is bigger than him, but that's the thing we simply do not know too much about hadari yao.
Here is the wiki to read more.
[url]https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Divinity[/url]
Question the adversary and chthon who is the greater chaos god.
She was also seen as a rain goddess to many tribes in aftica as well. And if we know prayer and faith empower her it should be no different when worshipped by others. Though i still agree with others that say it was just the final activatuon as we saw in shuri mini storm has a god voice qnd mode waiting to wreak havok and restore balance like when she got rid of those mushrooms in wakanda and didnt remember doing it
From marvel encylopedia.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719609]Question the adversary and chthon who is the greater chaos god.[/QUOTE]
do u have feats for chthon? I know roma mentioned life itself couldn't exist without adversary so that says a lot but I'm not familiar with chthon.