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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5401582]Please don't be insulting, I'm not accusing the character or writers I've seen pen her of white veneration, at least not intentionally, but I also know it took years to see Storm drawn in a way that was more reflective of her heritage and black X characters are so scarce her visual presentation holds that much more weight. Moreover, black women had zero say in her initial character design so forgive me for not embracing every single detail. I would never suggest changing them in comics, but I wouldn't be mad if they didn't show up in the MCU.
I'm a black woman who respectfully asked a question so you can miss me with that entire second paragraph. rude[/QUOTE]
Bloody hell! It's getting so a person cannot have a sensible, rational discussion and opinion without someone unnecessarily taking offense, where none was given and none was intended.
I wasn't addressing that second paragraph (the entire post actually) to you specifically at all. I don't know you so...No need to take it so direct and personal. But since you did....I have nothing more to say to you on the matter. Be at peace.
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[QUOTE=Fall-From-Grace;5401363]Hmm.. this topic is interesting to me. Storm is the most important black female superhero, and in much of the art marvel has put out of her, she could pass for a white woman with a tan . The straight hair and blue eyes help a lot to create that perception imo . So yes, while her hair and eyes are too iconic now to change them, and I have no idea of knowing what exactly the intention was when she was created, I sometimes wish artists gave her some different hairstyles. She could absolutely rock some braids . Give her some african-inspired touches to her outfits, these sorts of things. Representation is important and I think a lot of the times Marvel could do a better job with Storm's imagery to achieve that.[/QUOTE]
To answer your question: Artists and writers have, for the most part, always focused and highlighted on her African-ness with respect to her life's journey, her history, her heart, her connection, her dress. And there have been many instances where she's worn her hair in different , "Black" styles.
In story, Her blue eyes and her platinum white hair are indicative of the power handed down through time to the daughters the line who possess great and significant power. Ashake, her grand-mother many times removed and a gifted sorceress, had blue eyes and white hair as well. N'Dare, her mother, didn't. It's just that simple. Plus it looks really cool and gives her a very distinctive look apart from the other Black MU women.
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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5400764]Storm and Monica are easily my two favorite comic book characters, but I have to say, I've never been a fan of the blue eyes. I was annoyed seeing them on Monica for the same reasons I didn't like them on Storm, it felt like another example of black women distinguished or venerated for a typically white feature. I get the context is different between the two characters and they're exhibited differently, but it still feels like an incredibly loaded color choice.[/QUOTE]
???
There are literally people on the African continent who are born with blue eyes. I never understand when people have a problem with her hair or eyes. Not all of us black folk are the same anyways. I really dont like the 'storm isnt black enough' view people throw around. Her blue eyes and white are also could have been done to display her otherworldly feel her creators were clearly trying to stick to her upon debut.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5401694][COLOR="#000080"]We had a long discussion about this in the previous Storm thread. The more Black people, particularly Black women get interested in Storm, they want to see her reflect the culture, especially when it comes to hairstyles.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
You mean reflective in the same way we as Black people idolise Beyonce, Mary J. and other actual noted Black women who wear blond weaves, coloured contacts etc.?
The main difference being..Storm was "born" with those attributes. Beyonce wasn't.
And before you get all hottup under the collar, I'm seriously asking...no shade or rudeness.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5401929]You mean reflective in the same way we as Black people idolise Beyonce, Mary J. and other actual noted Black women who wear blond weaves, coloured contacts etc.?
The main difference being..Storm was "born" with those attributes. Beyonce wasn't.
And before you get all hottup under the collar, I'm seriously asking...no shade or rudeness.[/QUOTE]
You're really gonna post this snide comment deriding real life black women for not being born with the same features as a fictional comic book character originally created by white men lol. Thank you for highlighting the problem better than I ever could have.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5401929]You mean reflective in the same way we as Black people idolise Beyonce, Mary J. and other actual noted Black women who wear blond weaves, coloured contacts etc.?
The main difference being..Storm was "born" with those attributes. Beyonce wasn't.
And before you get all hottup under the collar, I'm seriously asking...no shade or rudeness.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I'm not offended at all. And you do know that there are more Black women who are inspirational than just Beyonce and Mary J right?
Michelle Obama
Naomi Osaki
Serena Williams
Karine Jean Pierre
Simone Sanders
Regina King
Laila Ali
Ava Duvurney
Jackie Joyner-Kersee
Stacey Abrams
Keisha Lance Bottoms
Maxine Waters
Joy-Ann Reid
Val Demmings
Macy Grey
Lupita Nyongo
Angela Basset
Toni Morrison
Tiffany Cross
Mae Carol Jemison
Oprah Winfrey
Naomi Campbell
Grace Jones
Cicely Tyson
Diana Ross
Just to name a few. Black Female beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, flavors hair color, and hairstyles. Black women have been revolutionizing hairstyles and are innovators. They go from blonde to black to blue to brown to beige. Storm has been daring as well at times with her style in the past. She should embrace that more and be on the cutting edge of style and fashion like her sisters. She doesn't always have to have a perm or mohawk
There was no malice in my prior post, only admiration for Black female beauty and expressionism and hoping to see more of that culture represented by not only Storm but other Black female characters.[/COLOR]
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[COLOR="#000080"]Oh, and a shout out to Rep. Cori Bush! :cool:[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402033][COLOR="#000080"]I'm not offended at all. And you do know that there are more Black women who are inspirational than just Beyonce and Mary J right?
Michelle Obama
Naomi Osaki
Serena Williams
Karine Jean Pierre
Simone Sanders
Regina King
Laila Ali
Ava Duvurney
Jackie Joyner-Kersee
Stacey Abrams
Keisha Lance Bottoms
Maxine Waters
Joy-Ann Reid
Val Demmings
Macy Grey
Lupita Nyongo
Angela Basset
Toni Morrison
Tiffany Cross
Mae Carol Jemison
Oprah Winfrey
Naomi Campbell
Grace Jones
Cicely Tyson
Diana Ross
Just to name a few. Black Female beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, flavors hair color, and hairstyles. Black women have been revolutionizing hairstyles and are innovators. They go from blonde to black to blue to brown to beige. Storm has been daring as well at times with her style in the past. She should embrace that more and be on the cutting edge of style and fashion like her sisters. She doesn't always have to have a perm or mohawk
There was no malice in my prior post, only admiration for Black female beauty and expressionism and hoping to see more of that culture represented by not only Storm but other Black female characters.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
beautifully said!
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Well My point, exactatiously! Marvell.
There are so many real women who are perfectly representational of being the beauty-full lack women we know and love and idolise and emulate...most and above all our mothers...who regardless of how they wear their hair are no less exquisite and exceptional or trying to emulate a white aesthetic.
Yet Storm...a fictional, comic-book character, whose characterisation is anything if not solidly rooted in her history and culture, is the hill some are willing to die on?
Come on.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402050]beautifully said![/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Thank you. I believe in Black beauty. I'm a father with a daughter and I've told her from day one that's she's beautiful no matter what.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402053]Well My point, exactatiously!
There are so many real women who are perfectly representational of being the beauty-full lack women we know and love and idolise and emulate...most and above all our mothers...who regardless of how they wear their hair are no less exquisite and exceptional.
Yet Storm...a fictional, comic-book character, whose characterisation is anything if not solidly rooted in her history and culture, is the hill some are willing to die on?
Come on.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Aren't we having a discussion? In a discussion we discuss many things.
If it wasn't important, if it wasn't something that people were interested in then we wouldn't have so many groups demanding representation in movies, TV and yes, comic books.
What may not be important to you might be important to someone else.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402056][COLOR="#000080"]Thank you. I believe in Black beauty. I'm a father with a daughter and I've told her from day one that's she's beautiful no matter what.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Can't the same be said of Storm? With her natural blue eyes and platinum hair?
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402066]Can't the same be said of Storm? With her natural blue eyes and platinum hair?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Did I say that Storm wasn't? All I said was that Storm should be able to do more than just have a perm. She should explore different styles.
I never even said anything about her eyes.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402056][COLOR="#000080"]Thank you. I believe in Black beauty. I'm a father with a daughter and I've told her from day one that's she's beautiful no matter what.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
very important as a black girl growing up in this world she hears that.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402063][COLOR="#000080"]Aren't we having a discussion? In a discussion we discuss many things.
If it wasn't important, if it wasn't something that people were interested in then we wouldn't have so many groups demanding representation in movies, TV and yes, comic books.
What may not be important to you might be important to someone else.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I fully understand the importance of it...and would be more inclined to agree if that train of thought was applied to a Black female character who was written as exemplifying White veneration. Storm, regardless of how she looks, has never been such a character who was portrayed as anything other than a beauty-full, proud, strong, independent, caring Black woman.
Know and understand her written history, before making such assertions and assumptions...that's all I'm saying.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402075]very important as a black girl growing up in this world she hears that.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Well I grew up in a family that's about 70 percent female so I learned to appreciate. :cool:[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402066]Can't the same be said of Storm? With her natural blue eyes and platinum hair?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
However folks think all that is fake on her. Because they have not seen actual folks who look like that.
DESPITE reality saying that they do exist.
However we forget where we are and who controls what.
James Earl Jones has blue eyes as does Robert Richard. How many times have we seen them on tv or movies with those eyes? How many times have they and others gotten their eyes CGI or contacts put on them?
How many women had to hide their real hair? Christina Applegate had red hair during the last 3 years of Married with Children-she had to hide it. I am sure many black actresses can tell horror stories.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402085]I fully understand the importance of it...and would be more inclined to agree if that train of thought was applied to a Black female character who was written as exemplifying White veneration. Storm, regardless of how she looks, has never been such a character who was portrayed as anything other than a beauty-full, proud, strong, independent, caring Black woman.
Know and understand her written history, before making such assertions and assumptions...that's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]What assertion am I making? When did i ever say that Storm wasn't a proud woman? I think you're reaching for something that isn't there. I said that Black girls who may decide to read X-Men will come in and see Storm as a role model. How could it possibly hurt to have Storm wear different hairstyles from time to time which is something that Black women do a lot? How is that me saying that Storm is somehow "exemplifying whiteness"? Again, you're saying something that I didn't say.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402068][COLOR="#000080"]Did I say that Storm wasn't? All I said was that Storm should be able to do more than just have a perm. She should explore different styles.
I never even said anything about her eyes.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
She has explored different hair styles.
My point...Storm is a beauty-full Black woman. Always was. Always will be. And not because her eyes and hair are seemingly and erroneously construed to be "more representational" of White women.
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If Storm were made today she’d have natural hair and I have a creeping suspicion that when she makes her MCU debut they’ll do exactly that, both as a means to highlight her African identity and differentiate her from the mixed-raced women that have played her in the past. She’s a product of her time and for the most part that’s fine as long as writers color her correctly and give her facial features that you’d expect from an unambiguously African woman with partial black American ancestry. It’s not that complicated.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402100][COLOR="#000080"]What assertion am I making? When did i ever say that Storm wasn't a proud woman? I think you're reaching for something that isn't there. I said that Black girls who may decide to read X-Men will come in and see Storm as a role model. How could it possibly hurt to have Storm wear different hairstyles from time to time which is something that Black women do a lot? How is that me saying that Storm is somehow "exemplifying whiteness"? Again, you're saying something that I didn't say.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm not saying YOU or anyone else in this thread are making these assertions and assumptions.
I'm saying, [I][U]in general terms,[/U][/I] such assertions and assumptions are being made, have been made...hence this discusssion.
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Storm should and most probably will look as her comic counterpart is. They've never done her justice cinematically so im sure they will do what they must. Storm has silky white hair and feline crystal blue eyes. Period.
And storm never had no perm
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402102]She has explored different hair styles.
My point...Storm is a beauty-full Black woman. Always was. Always will be. And not because her eyes and hair are seemingly and erroneously construed to be "more representational" of White women.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]You're the only person saying "representing white women". If that comment was meant for someone else then I think it should be directed there.
Storm's hairstyles - Perm. Braid. Mohawk.
Bishop's hairstyles - Dreads. Bald. Fade. Twists.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402110]I'm not saying YOU or anyone else in this thread are making these assertions and assumptions.
I'm saying, [I][U]in general terms,[/U][/I] such assertions and assumptions are being made, have been made...hence this discusssion.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]If not me or anyone else in this thread then who?
I would think that whoever needs to hear your comments would need to be in the thread.[/COLOR]
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wasn't a specific comment made regarding ororo's esthetic pertaining to her eyes and hair which then resulted in a specific response to said comment? let's not throw rocks and then hide our hands.
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@Marvell *thumbs up* self-immolation is not my thing.
@Stormult...anything would be better than what we were previously given.
The blue eyes are a must...although they don't have to be feline. So many artists have ignored that visual for so long that personally it's neither here nor there with me. (Though I admit, it would be awesome).
As to her hair...I would love to see a variety of styles, including her long, flowing, straight locks...She could and should change up 'dos throughout the movie. As many women do in real life. (I would have loved to see Halle in her signature pixie cut but platinum white, as Storm wore it in Xtreme XM)
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402128][COLOR="#000080"]You're the only person saying "representing white women". If that comment was meant for someone else then I think it should be directed there.
Storm's hairstyles - Perm. Braid. Mohawk.
Bishop's hairstyles - Dreads. Bald. Fade. Twists.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
she's been bald too lol
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[COLOR="#000080"]I own whatever I say. I made a comment about Black girls wanting to see more representation and I know I specifically said hairstyles. I'm not backing off that in the slightest.
Anyone else make a comment about eye color can speak on their own accord.
And let me say this, I'm cool with everyone, not hard feelings or animosity.
Dev, you and I have butted heads on many occasions and we've had some pretty good interactions so I hope you don't think I'm feeling any kind of way but good. We good. :cool:
BK, you love Coates and I can't stand his BP at all. That will never change. But the sameas Dev, we've butted heads but we always remain cool.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402157]she's been bald too lol[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]In 616? When?[/COLOR]
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If we talking styles then i'd give her Normani's ponytail to be quite honest.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]106624[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=Stormultt Divine;5402179]If we talking styles then i'd give her Normani's ponytail to be quite honest.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]106624[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I have to admit, I wasn't looking at the hair.[/COLOR]
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Yes...we're always good.
I get your point about the hair...but the initial post that premised the discussion was about her hair and eyes and how it might be perceived by some. What you and I were discussing is tangentially related.
yes to the Normani Ponytail...and/or Janet's Unbreakable lion-mane.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402166][COLOR="#000080"]I own whatever I say. I made a comment about Black girls wanting to see more representation and I know I specifically said hairstyles. I'm not backing off that in the slightest.
Anyone else make a comment about eye color can speak on their own accord.
And let me say this, I'm cool with everyone, not hard feelings or animosity.
Dev, you and I have butted heads on many occasions and we've had some pretty good interactions so I hope you don't think I'm feeling any kind of way but good. We good. :cool:
BK, you love Coates and I can't stand his BP at all. That will never change. But the sameas Dev, we've butted heads but we always remain cool.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
of course no issues here on my end beloved. I wasn't referencing you in that previous post.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402193]of course no issues here on my end beloved. I wasn't referencing you in that previous post.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Still need to see that bald Storm pic.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402169][COLOR="#000080"]In 616? When?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
when she was a mutate and regressed to a child. and when she was in age of xmen in the pocket universe. that was technically 616 storm
[QUOTE=Stormultt Divine;5402179]If we talking styles then i'd give her Normani's ponytail to be quite honest.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]106624[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
she so gorgeous i approve lol
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402209]when she was a mutate and regressed to a child. and when she was in age of xmen in the pocket universe. that was technically 616 storm
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I don't wanna hear about no baby Storm and pocket/alternate universe don't count. Technicals only exist in basketball.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402201][COLOR="#000080"]Still need to see that bald Storm pic.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/0b/a5/360ba58d124c6222d8bd9cbc4b1f9bca.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/8/b0/51141f5a19cbc/background.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402215][COLOR="#000080"]I don't wanna hear about no baby Storm and pocket/alternate universe don't count. Technicals only exist in basketball.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
but it does it was 616 storm transported to another universe created by xman
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5401890]To answer your question: Artists and writers have, for the most part, always focused and highlighted on her African-ness with respect to her life's journey, her history, her heart, her connection, her dress. And there have been many instances where she's worn her hair in different , "Black" styles.
In story, Her blue eyes and her platinum white hair are indicative of the power handed down through time to the daughters the line who possess great and significant power. Ashake, her grand-mother many times removed and a gifted sorceress, had blue eyes and white hair as well. N'Dare, her mother, didn't. It's just that simple. Plus it looks really cool and gives her a very distinctive look apart from the other Black MU women.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you are saying and yes, I agree that her ancestry found its way through her storylines . I understand the in-story reason for her eyes and hair as well . But I disagree with the ''many'' instances part . She is consistently drawn with either the straight hair( which I get, as it is a part of her look from her creation) or the mohawk and I wish artists would switch it up more .
Moreover, which was something I failed to mention, Storm has been a victim of whitewashing just like other black x-characters , such as Sunspot and Monet. When you add in the straight hair and the blue eyes? As well as many artists drawing her facial features as if she is straight up from Europe? She could very much be a white woman drawn with a slightly darker color. And yes, that bothers me . Because she is, a lot of times, the only black character that gets exposure on the x-men, significant exposure that is, and visually she fails to look like a lot of black people like myself do . And because the X-Office has neglected having other black characters be prominent on the franchise, this weight of representation falls even more on Storm's shoulders, so we look for her to see ourselves in and that doesnt always happen. I've shown Storm to a few black young girls and while they do love her ( I remember one of them calling her Black Storm , and to this day this still remains on my mind, because she simply didnt know any other black superheroes so Storm was extra important to her ) , the topic of her hair and eyes is always brought up . As unique as it makes Storm look , it also is a point of disconnection to a lot of black people. I'm not arguing for it to change, I'm saying: switch up her hairstyles and her outfits more , so I can see her in a comic rocking some afro, some curls, some braids, wearing some african styled outfits , etc.
@Butterflykiss wow, that page can open a huge can of worms . I know Claremont loves Storm and he is the writer who has made her prominent today, but this almost reads as if he is saying, through the characters, that she is black, but not REALLY black. And it goes back to what I said before, since she is the the most prominent black character in the franchise, this almost feels like taking away from her blackness and justifying it.
