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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719156]She threatened to manipulate the electrical impulses which neurons use to transmit information...she didn't threaten to suddenly make his neurons larger or ripped them from his head. Same with his heart...she threatened to freeze it. Not directly increase or slow down its rhythm or it's blood flow.
Having an effect on something is not directly controlling it.
She can cause an effect directly on biological matter/tissue. She does not control biological matter/tissue.[/QUOTE]
1- She didn't threaten, she did.
2- If it can have an effect on organic matter, then you invalidate your previous argument where you stated that it cannot directly affect organic matter, when it did, regardless of whether it was electrical synapses. Storm manipulates energy, and in us living beings we are composed of energy, including plants. Magneto used magnetism to directly affect the Molecular Manipulation of Apocalypse causing him to enter a catatonic degenerative state.
Storm didn't make the sinister's brain grow because it wasn't a case of hydrocephalus, and the brain is not a plant that grows and branches.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719192]I kind of want Ewing to expound on her newly-realised divinity but at the same time I don't care that much about it at all (OL Storm is all I need) so I won't be too pressed if it's never ever brought up or addressed in-story.[/QUOTE]
I would simply because marvel got no black goddesses aside from in their one black book they keep giving a chance to. So yeah i want my girl to get her accolades recognized. The marvel universe is a big place and OL or not we have seen her powers don't work on some entities and those are entities tied to HER story like advesary. So i do want the promise claremont dangled for what felt like centuries realized.
If wiccan can have his power levels and still be demurge they trying to play my girl. lol
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5719181]It really annoys me how they try to link her only to wakanda. yes that is where it was materilized and Coates gets all his credit for that but he also linked that she has been in this state or close to it before when she was worshipped in the African plains which would predate her being a wakandian god specifically and more just add it to her godly resume. I hope if Ewing touches on it he at least shows us she is far more spread out in africa then just wakanda. I mean from egypt to wakanda people know of the wind rider or the young goddess. Also i feel it doesn't take her line into account.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but before Coates there was no mention of her being a real god. most if not all writers made it very clear she was just a mutant mistaken for one. that is why he gets credit and emphasis is directed towards her being a wakandan goddess. as of now they are the only ones confirmed to worship her as a real goddess.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719206]I'm sorry but before Coates there was no mention of her being a real god. most if not all writers made it very clear she was just a mutant mistaken for one. that is why he gets credit and emphasis is directed towards her being a wakandan goddess. as of now they are the only ones confirmed to worship her as a real goddess.[/QUOTE]
okay and i gave coates his credit. i mean should i be thankful to him eternally for a product i paid for. I'm really confused with the continous wanking of coates. He mentioned she has been there before and that is why tchalla asked her so it's cool if you want to cherry pick what you want from coates but it's like cool. we get it, okay, he still sucked overall imo.
edit: I would take almost any storm aside from guggeheim over coates even if it meant sacrificing the on panel goddess hood. But i can accept what happened and make lemonade out of what i felt was garbage writing overall.
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[QUOTE=Amazona dos ventos;5719199]1- She didn't threaten, she did.
2- If it can have an effect on organic matter, then you invalidate your previous argument where you stated that it cannot directly affect organic matter, when it did, regardless of whether it was electrical synapses. Storm manipulates energy, and in us living beings we are composed of energy, including plants. Magneto used magnetism to directly affect the Molecular Manipulation of Apocalypse causing him to enter a catatonic degenerative state.
Storm didn't make the sinister's brain grow because it wasn't a case of hydrocephalus, and the brain is not a plant that grows and branches.[/QUOTE]
Some things are clearly being lost in translation here so...I calling it.
Time of death of this topic...8:35 pm GMT
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719210]Some things are clearly being lost in translation here so...I calling it.
Time of death of this topic...8:35 pm GMT[/QUOTE]
I use google translator. Maybe you can't understand it clearly, since the translation looks like shit. But who is BR understands.
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Just a little diversion but watching this new clip Janet released today about her upcoming documentary and I can't help but to think about what if she would've accepted the role of Storm when Bryan Singer approached her. I could only imagine the fire behind the Janet version of Storm and the beauty. Anyway i'm ready for Storm to hit the MCU!!!
[video=youtube;nJ4OD76xUpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ4OD76xUpA[/video]
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[QUOTE=KLY360;5719164][IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/7A02A731-4D7A-49CB-BD33-CC45AEFC16DC.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/7/75182/7112911-5473984945-EHQ0B91XUAAzdOL[/IMG]
1. It stated Storm turns worship into godlike power as she became a new Wakandan Goddess.
2. The Wakandan gods get their magic by transforming faith into power
This is why when Storm was able to access her god powers the first time to disperse Adversary Storm. She stated it was faith and divinity.
This means Storm uses god's magic or divine magic.
Also, Adversary is immune to all physical attacks whether that be physical strength and energy attacks if it's not very high-tier magic or iron. As already shown Storm's physical powers would not even put a scratch on him.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between godlike and godly. Yh storm can use divine magic but storm's divinity isn't divine magic it's more of a transcendent thing. Storm when she activates her godhead becomes a transcended t being with transcendent energy running through her. As a zenith existence as a god she has access to all forms of energy and magics including divine. Being a god doesn't automatically make one magical but gods can use magical energy to do things. But all in all the hadari yao hasn't done anything well magical yet. It could be that the great mystical potential latent within storm as stated by strange, is different from her godhead as she seems to share a card with two of the most powerful sorcerer's in all of comics. The problem is we haven't seen much evidence of her magic aside the belasco limbo magik storyline and her channeling magical energy too potent for a hell lord to create a portal.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5719209]okay and i gave coates his credit. i mean should i be thankful to him eternally for a product i paid for. I'm really confused with the continous wanking of coates. He mentioned she has been there before and that is why tchalla asked her so it's cool if you want to cherry pick what you want from coates but it's like cool. we get it, okay, he still sucked overall imo.
edit: I would take almost any storm aside from guggeheim over coates even if it meant sacrificing the on panel goddess hood. But i can accept what happened and make lemonade out of what i felt was garbage writing overall.[/QUOTE]
I saw that u did. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you did alternatively however since you are aware of this that he was the one who canonized her and has been the only one to really do anything substantive with that development being annoyed she is mentioned as wakandan goddess seems odd. her own village (written by the xoffices) mentioned she was just a silly girl and they knew she wasn't a goddess. and if he sucked writers still liked what he did and want to develop it so im thankful for that
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719242]I saw that u did. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you did alternatively however since you are aware of this that he was the one who canonized her and has been the only one to really do anything substantive with that development being annoyed she is mentioned as wakandan goddess seems odd. her own village (written by the xoffices) mentioned she was just a silly girl and they knew she wasn't a goddess. and if he sucked writers still liked what he did and want to develop it so im thankful for that[/QUOTE]
i'm glad your thankful for it and i don't mean it as an insult but sometimes it feels like your trying to force that same feeling on other people. i did not like his writing overall. I don't care if the x-offices never made good on it and him making good on it doesn't make what he did mean more to me than what happens or has happened in the x-books with her. the silly girl thing don't bother me none of that so at some point i just don't know what response is being sought. I don't own storm.
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[QUOTE=Amazona dos ventos;5719222]I use google translator. Maybe you can't understand it clearly, since the translation looks like shit. But who is BR understands.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't referring to linguistic translation but...I do see how my points may be miscomprehended because if such.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719264]I wasn't referring to linguistic translation but...I do see how my points may be miscomprehended because if such.[/QUOTE]
What were you referring to? I did not understand...
You talked about lost translation.
if you were referring to logic, I think you got lost when you said that Ororo didn't make the sinister brain grow, I just said that brain is not a plant for it to grow and branch, unless it's a case of hydrocephalus (water in the brain).
big brain.
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Yeah...not resurrecting this without consent given.
It's dead AdV...let it rest in peace.
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In this discussion, if Storm just used its mutated powers to accelerate plant growth, it reminded me of the issue ([B]Empyre: Fallout Fantastic Four[/B]) where Thor used his hereditary powers of Gaea to revive the flora of a dead planet, I find it amazing that Ororo only used the path of science and her mutant powers to make plants germinate faster, just like she using her divine powers.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Efy4m69ujyjAtEYwYtNxeQxFqyuWmiMHYVi6pYS49zwikysrsFQt8MjQDgCZlkLUhUJ-KsCxeeoq1jeWLla9M8pc7J4ZQ0OGSH3f9OsiKYCygCpvXPxAF--0FNr0fK2Q8UeqdnPk=s0[/img]
Remember what Coates wrote of what Hadari Yao means
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0-SAcW26139e1p2GZeWLGWRrf3s-46fB_14A8eqi6GCY18ZYGOVxN5khD_7rp9NkjTl4tnAWfi_B31p8YgHshouaehKYNbu9Wci9iUM-QZsBWYu_Wld7mgs_clz4KCotbeVd6vieBg=s0[/img]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719230]There is a difference between godlike and godly. Yh storm can use divine magic but storm's divinity isn't divine magic it's more of a transcendent thing. Storm when she activates her godhead becomes a transcended t being with transcendent energy running through her. As a zenith existence as a god she has access to all forms of energy and magics including divine. Being a god doesn't automatically make one magical but gods can use magical energy to do things. But all in all the hadari yao hasn't done anything well magical yet. It could be that the great mystical potential latent within storm as stated by strange, is different from her godhead as she seems to share a card with two of the most powerful sorcerer's in all of comics. The problem is we haven't seen much evidence of her magic aside the belasco limbo magik storyline and her channeling magical energy too potent for a hell lord to create a portal.[/QUOTE]
The Adversary cannot be defeated by non magical means. Period. So her tapping into the faith of Wakanda to empower herself to defeat the Adversary is magic.
There’s no getting around it.
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dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5719295]Yeah...not resurrecting this [b]without consent given[/b].
It's dead AdV...let it rest in peace.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/4IdmIwyEBygAAAAM/gretchen-disappointed.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5719297]In this discussion, if Storm just used its mutated powers to accelerate plant growth, it reminded me of the issue ([B]Empyre: Fallout Fantastic Four[/B]) where Thor used his hereditary powers of Gaea to revive the flora of a dead planet, I find it amazing that Ororo only used the path of science and her mutant powers to make plants germinate faster, just like she using her divine powers.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Efy4m69ujyjAtEYwYtNxeQxFqyuWmiMHYVi6pYS49zwikysrsFQt8MjQDgCZlkLUhUJ-KsCxeeoq1jeWLla9M8pc7J4ZQ0OGSH3f9OsiKYCygCpvXPxAF--0FNr0fK2Q8UeqdnPk=s0[/img]
Remember what Coates wrote of what Hadari Yao means
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0-SAcW26139e1p2GZeWLGWRrf3s-46fB_14A8eqi6GCY18ZYGOVxN5khD_7rp9NkjTl4tnAWfi_B31p8YgHshouaehKYNbu9Wci9iUM-QZsBWYu_Wld7mgs_clz4KCotbeVd6vieBg=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
That's about it...
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719309]dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.[/QUOTE]
In fact he can, but not using the same feature as the Storm, as he can extract extra-dimensional energies, resort to Vinshattis and the like, I think as a Supreme Mage he is extremely versatile in using various mythic arts.
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[QUOTE=Amazona dos ventos;5719316]That's about it...[/QUOTE]
Thank you, gatinha
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719230]There is a difference between godlike and godly. Yh storm can use divine magic but storm's divinity isn't divine magic it's more of a transcendent thing. Storm when she activates her godhead becomes a transcended t being with transcendent energy running through her. As a zenith existence as a god she has access to all forms of energy and magics including divine. Being a god doesn't automatically make one magical but gods can use magical energy to do things. But all in all the hadari yao hasn't done anything well magical yet. It could be that the great mystical potential latent within storm as stated by strange, is different from her godhead as she seems to share a card with two of the most powerful sorcerer's in all of comics. The problem is we haven't seen much evidence of her magic aside the belasco limbo magik storyline and her channeling magical energy too potent for a hell lord to create a portal.[/QUOTE]
Even gods in marvel are still stated to having Godlike power like Odin and Zeus. Galactus was stated to have Godlike power even the celestials. Storm has done something magic she literally transforms faith into magic to defeat Adversary. You can literally can not defeat Adversary without high-tier magic. Also, Storm was born with her godhead she unlocked it in BP. Which means she's born a god and will always be a god. It goes beyond even her mutation which is apart of her DNA. There is literally no other way around Storm using divine magic to defeat Adversary sorry. Also, the Belasco instance is Storm using white magic.
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5719326]In fact he can, but not using the same feature as the Storm, as he can extract extra-dimensional energies, resort to Vinshattis and the like, I think as a Supreme Mage he is extremely versatile in using various mythic arts.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think she/he meant Storm can summon that magical energy herself while Dr. Strange invokes Osthur, her son, and the other dude.
Now it could be argued Storm's godhead also invokes Oshtur for magic. When she unlocked her divinity and faith she mentioned: "bright lady" which is Osthut name.
Just like Chaos King is an Aspect of Oblivion. Storm's godhead could be an aspect of Oshtur powers since she did favor her ancestors.
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When it comes to magical energies I expect Ororo to follow Topaz “model” but in a much more powerful way, to be able to generate your own mystical energies is considered somewhat of a privilege in the marvel universe
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/47F41C10-EF45-4E21-98E7-C1190ED9E83E.jpeg[/IMG]
Also lets not forget that Ororo’s mutant godhood puts her on a very special level even when compared to your run of the mill asgardian god
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/63B6D651-0755-4130-8D84-36AF2450EEAE.jpeg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Daedra;5719388]When it comes to magical energies I expect Ororo to follow Topaz “model” but in a much more powerful way, to be able to generate your own mystical energies is considered somewhat of a privilege in the marvel universe
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/47F41C10-EF45-4E21-98E7-C1190ED9E83E.jpeg[/IMG]
Also lets not forget that OroroÂ’s mutant godhood puts her on a very special level even when compared to your run of the mill asgardian god
[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/af33/RiptideX/63B6D651-0755-4130-8D84-36AF2450EEAE.jpeg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It could be that hadari yao allows storm to generate immeasurable amounts of divine energy to the extent of generating a force such the Odinforce or pheonixforce. But her mystic side allows her to channel this energy to spells incantation s and what have you, whilst her mutant side uses this bottomless wellspring as a bigger boost to even more unfathomable levels of power.... The way the mutant energy from M day was able to make Vulcan past omega could be a parallel to how hadari yao's energy gives storm the ability to at least temporarily defy all comprehension even by omega mutant standards. This would make knull's statement about her become clearer and Duggan's response of omegas omega in focus.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5719297]In this discussion, if Storm just used its mutated powers to accelerate plant growth, it reminded me of the issue ([B]Empyre: Fallout Fantastic Four[/B]) where Thor used his hereditary powers of Gaea to revive the flora of a dead planet, I find it amazing that Ororo only used the path of science and her mutant powers to make plants germinate faster, just like she using her divine powers.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Efy4m69ujyjAtEYwYtNxeQxFqyuWmiMHYVi6pYS49zwikysrsFQt8MjQDgCZlkLUhUJ-KsCxeeoq1jeWLla9M8pc7J4ZQ0OGSH3f9OsiKYCygCpvXPxAF--0FNr0fK2Q8UeqdnPk=s0[/img]
Remember what Coates wrote of what Hadari Yao means
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0-SAcW26139e1p2GZeWLGWRrf3s-46fB_14A8eqi6GCY18ZYGOVxN5khD_7rp9NkjTl4tnAWfi_B31p8YgHshouaehKYNbu9Wci9iUM-QZsBWYu_Wld7mgs_clz4KCotbeVd6vieBg=s0[/img][/QUOTE]
ALL NATURAL THINGS which includes plants tooo.
[QUOTE=WallStreeter;5719303]The Adversary cannot be defeated by non magical means. Period. So her tapping into the faith of Wakanda to empower herself to defeat the Adversary is magic.
ThereÂ’s no getting around it.[/QUOTE]
Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719309]dae posted a breakdown of the different types of magic that I thought was a perfect explanation of it. all magic isn't created equal. there, apparently, us divine magic which gods only have access too, then you have other forms accessible to humans and gods. I think what was confusing is that we are lumping magic all in to the same category. what ororo was able to do against adversary Dr strange wouldn't be able to replicate with his magic.[/QUOTE]
Gods have access to divine magic but not all gods use divine magic to do their thing. Like I stated being a god is a state of existence which affords one certain advantages one being access to higher forms of energy and power. Divinity is not magic it's a state of existence and mortals can use divine magic of given access to it like wanda using the divine chaos magic.
[QUOTE=KLY360;5719349]Even gods in marvel are still stated to having Godlike power like Odin and Zeus. Galactus was stated to have Godlike power even the celestials. Storm has done something magic she literally transforms faith into magic to defeat Adversary. You can literally can not defeat Adversary without high-tier magic. Also, Storm was born with her godhead she unlocked it in BP. Which means she's born a god and will always be a god. It goes beyond even her mutation which is apart of her DNA. There is literally no other way around Storm using divine magic to defeat Adversary sorry. Also, the Belasco instance is Storm using white magic.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing I don't think you need magic to necessarily beat adversary because I doubt if he came face to face with the pheonix force he would survive the encounter and the Phoenix doesn't use magic it uses pure psionic force. Also isn't he like very vulnerable to metal?
How I see it is that storm is simply above him in every aspect when it comes to divinity he governs in chaos which is a natural function of nature and hadari yao governs well the balance between all natural things and I would argue even chaos. I believe that's why he was afraid of her and forge because forge knew the magic to seal him up, but storm was simply bigger than he could handle if her godhood revealed itself.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719448]That's the thing I don't think you need magic to necessarily beat adversary because I doubt if he came face to face with the pheonix force he would survive the encounter and the Phoenix doesn't use magic it uses pure psionic force. Also isn't he like very vulnerable to metal?
How I see it is that storm is simply above him in every aspect when it comes to divinity he governs in chaos which is a natural function of nature and hadari yao governs well the balance between all natural things and I would argue even chaos. I believe that's why he was afraid of her and forge because forge knew the magic to seal him up, but storm was simply bigger than he could handle if her godhood revealed itself.[/QUOTE]
That would not be true. The Phoenix was literally the important key to making the matrix which is a magical energy that permeates the omniverse. Not to mention he took Roma at full power. When the Matrix energy collapsed Roma used the magical energy of the Otherworld to sustain her and the Starlight Citadel which is the nexus of all dimensions in the Marvel multiverse the same way the matrix energy did. It has been Retcon that the source of magic is from Otherworld along with Megan using the energy of Otherworld to close the rift in reality created by the Chaos wave.
This means Adversary has been struck by Roma's full power who was using the pan-dimensional energy of Otherworld did absolutely nothing but make him laugh. This is why it's better to defeat him with this spirit spell that cuts him off from Chaos which is the source of his powers and seals him in the prison dimension.
The phoenix powers are also isn't physical it's literally abstract and exists in plane of reality with other Abstracts. Not only helped make the matrix energy but also fought against the Chaos Wave.
As already shown Storm powers mutant powers are physical and couldn't even shove in through a portal through the '80s. He also tanked molecular dispersion canon which Forged used against him which is how I know Storm mutant powers aren't even scratching him.
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719430]Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.[/QUOTE]
Forge with the spirit spell and he was powerful enough to fight Darkchylde Magik in Limbo stated Adversary was stronger than him. But he still defeated Adversary
[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297012/7610214-7112909-9017935295-eg3qcihx4aap_w3%282%29.jpeg[/IMG]
One could argue that she is way more powerful than him but her goddess title also gives off the same characteristics as the spirit spell. She can crush evil and dispense salvation with equal force and passion. As shown the spirit spell crushes the Adversary power source which is Chaos.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/x8lVrP2QOuAGlOHnjjjELSMS-lRG3zagq3LY3vvl5rkD0FOmcjdcgToWZeXUX2feygrxp9steYQ3=s1600[/IMG]
Roma herself backed by the pandimensional energies of Otherworld was stated to be Good vs Evil, Order vs Chaos, and Dark vs Light yet was defeated. She has the same characters as Goddess Storm powers. Roma even has a multiverse called the realm of order.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gVw0qL0c9rll0fpTyo-K6zRXlIijtVHX14n_CTxDov-674CESBj31VIAgrOrMezvc8tslGWELd5g=s1600[/IMG]
Which means Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forge Spirit Spell which would never fully defeat Adversary and Roma's ordered based powers
Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Adversary
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719430]Yh but tachala also stated that she was literally a bigger god than he is. So it all comes down to who is more powerful and as mighty as adversary is Hadari yao is mighter.
It's like Thor and Sif both are gods but Thor is a bigger god than sif and hence mightier than her.[/QUOTE]
Wakanda activated that Godhood by powering her with belief and faith. This is the ultimate in magic.
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[QUOTE=KLY360;5719492]Forge with the spirit spell and he was powerful enough to fight Darkchylde Magik in Limbo stated Adversary was stronger than him. But he still defeated Adversary
[IMG]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297012/7610214-7112909-9017935295-eg3qcihx4aap_w3%282%29.jpeg[/IMG]
One could argue that she is way more powerful than him but her goddess title also gives off the same characteristics as the spirit spell. She can crush evil and dispense salvation with equal force and passion. As shown the spirit spell crushes the Adversary power source which is Chaos.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/x8lVrP2QOuAGlOHnjjjELSMS-lRG3zagq3LY3vvl5rkD0FOmcjdcgToWZeXUX2feygrxp9steYQ3=s1600[/IMG]
Roma herself backed by the pandimensional energies of Otherworld was stated to be Good vs Evil, Order vs Chaos, and Dark vs Light yet was defeated. She has the same characters as Goddess Storm powers. Roma even has a multiverse called the realm of order.
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gVw0qL0c9rll0fpTyo-K6zRXlIijtVHX14n_CTxDov-674CESBj31VIAgrOrMezvc8tslGWELd5g=s1600[/IMG]
Which means Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forge Spirit Spell which would never fully defeat Adversary and Roma's ordered based powers
Storm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Adversary[/QUOTE]
Yh exactly storm is simply greater than he is. Thats why I do not believe it was magic that she used to smite him because the wakandans had already cast the spell it was left with how to get him in and that's what hadari yao did she pushed him into the spell to be sealed with no effort.
[QUOTE=WallStreeter;5719503]Wakanda activated that Godhood by powering her with belief and faith. This is the ultimate in magic.[/QUOTE]
Fam godhood isn't magic it's transcendence not magic yes gods can use magic but it doesn't mean everything gods use are magic based case in point the cosmic gods in marvel ala galactus, pheonix, living tribunal, eternity and such. These beings have unlimited reservoirs of cosmic energy which can translate to fuel spells and such. This page best explains this divinity is a source of power that allows one to ascend to a transcendent state of being. And the level of divinity is variable, hence why hadari yao >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adversary because her divinity which is her wellspring of power is simply essentially limitless. There are three levels to divinities we have leser for(demo gods and minor gods) we have greater (Thor, hades and Poseidon) and finally supreme(Gaia, Zeus, Ra, Odin and divine leaders of a pantheon).
I doubt adversary is a minor or lesser deity he has the divine power to affect the multiverse and storm is bigger than him, but that's the thing we simply do not know too much about hadari yao.
Here is the wiki to read more.
[url]https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Divinity[/url]
Question the adversary and chthon who is the greater chaos god.
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She was also seen as a rain goddess to many tribes in aftica as well. And if we know prayer and faith empower her it should be no different when worshipped by others. Though i still agree with others that say it was just the final activatuon as we saw in shuri mini storm has a god voice qnd mode waiting to wreak havok and restore balance like when she got rid of those mushrooms in wakanda and didnt remember doing it
From marvel encylopedia.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]113467[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719609]Question the adversary and chthon who is the greater chaos god.[/QUOTE]
do u have feats for chthon? I know roma mentioned life itself couldn't exist without adversary so that says a lot but I'm not familiar with chthon.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5719611]She was also seen as a rain goddess to many tribes in aftica as well. And if we know prayer and faith empower her it should be no different when worshipped by others. Though i still agree with others that say it was just the final activatuon as we saw in shuri mini storm has a god voice qnd mode waiting to wreak havok and restore balance like when she got rid of those mushrooms in wakanda and didnt remember doing it
From marvel encylopedia.
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even still, Ororo acknowledged what Xavier told her years before when she first joined the xmen that she wasn't a real goddess. that was and had been the narrative for the character's entire existence until Coates came along and changed that. I think to now retroactively select periods from her past as indications she was a "real goddess" glosses over this fact.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719647]even still, Ororo acknowledged what Xavier told her years before when she first joined the xmen that she wasn't a real goddess. that was and had been the narrative for the character's entire existence until Coates came along and changed that. I think to now retroactively select periods from her past as indications she was a "real goddess" glosses over this fact.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't gloss over anything when coates himself used it in his book. So you can say coates went back and retcon a retcon or you can completely ignore what he said in the book about how ororo felt when she was a goddess. okay. either way don't mean much to me. I'm simply posting what's in the encyclopedia.
edit: and the encyclopedia copyright 2020. So that's what marvel want everyday people to know and i'm good with that.
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Interesting debate on Storm's effects but there is one significant factor that is missing -- true that there could be all the fictional science but in a writer/reader prospective take into consideration that comics is a medium that tell a story with little to no consideration of "literal time"
1. First of all the three panel in concern was placed in three different parts of the book (in which other stuff are happening) -- so the question as to how quick the plants grow may be subjective
H
E.g. here are the three culprits of that question in succession that the post suggest those plants grow quick
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It would be agreeable if these panels were actually presented in the same manner as panel 1 - panel 3
But it wasn't
Between these panels, the conversation between Shuri, the attack on the enemy ship (with the explosion), the conversation between Killmonger and the symbiote before she was able to be ready to enact the attack of that massive scale -- happened -- significant amount of time has lapsed in between said 3 separate panels -- so it could mean that the plant still took its natural course of how many hours...it would just seem so quick coz it has to be cramped in about 20 or so pages...take into consideration how many bullets/ roundabouts around a large ship does it take to take down an entire ship? (titanic took hours before it really sank)
So to answer that curious question is in the way these panels were arranged in the story board -- there was a significant time - perhaps more than 24 hours before she was able to actually affect the army --it was also mentioned that she was "tardy" of the task -- meaning time is to be considered (the time being asked here is relative to how Shuri expected for that plan to work) the plant was there to reiterate to readers time has passed from panel 1 (while Shuri and Hodari debate and how they attacked the shop) from panel 2 (while the symbiote and Killmonger talked and holding off their defenses) and finally panel 3 -- where the plants are effectively blossomed
Secondly Although to consider still that instead of days -- lets concentrate on who is it we are talking about -- Its Storm who is an expert gardener/hordeculturist with a power set that justifies how plants react to her (including but not limited to knowing which plants can be aggressively needing a lot of energy she was about to displace from those ships) remember that she was breeding hybrid plants? Or it could be a Krakoan plant that creates gates in minutes time...so yup fiction wins the logical real time debate of how these plants could potentially really grow in such a short span -- its also a potential mutant plant (if it was shown that she used an ordinary plant like a rose and showed it to have bloomed -- thats a different debate) sometimes we should also consider that she aint just someone who shoots lightning
Lastly, what exactly is she doing? As mentioned above she had removed the life support of a huge army -- nope she didn't take it for herself as it had no effect on her -- so where did she put that amount of energy? Yes the plants -- among the sciences that can support one of the basic laws energy placement/displacement (much how it was explained that her rains in new york could deplete the needed water requirement for it to rain lets say in europe) the plant (mutant or not) is the recipient of all that energy she took -- if you know the concept of a bonsai compared to forest trees (then its the reverse of that)...if you accept that Krakoan plant is a mutant in itself growing gates in seconds then its potentially done in minutes without a surprise -- but Ill hold the most logical middle that time did lapse -- in its simplest narrative --
Bottomline still there is no question as to the character not having or having the skill to do "godly" feat with plants against a human capacity to grow by supplying bare minimum -- considering this also happened in fictional space in a 4x4 room and not as vast as earth -- and no I took away the consideration that she has "god" influence -- that is only so relevant to Hodari's doubtful nature -- to which I guess he walked out of it as a believer -- moving of energy or water from one ship to another by mere yoga sitting is not yet proven to be a human skill -- The definition of god is still by comics human standard anyway and Hodari is still a human Wakandan in prospective --
P.S. if we are to consider the flowering plant image that was posted before -- notice that the other mutant kid was already working out on the plant before they reached out to her -- doesnt mean that it was just her influence that brought that plant back to life -- i would bet that the mutant child already had started the process and would have been feeding the plant for days and something was wrong with how he was feeding it -- she just fixed it --
Sometimes too much logic aint needed in interpreting the pages -- remember that comics is still made for kids to understand what is happening -- plus its fictional science i could discuss how many biological redundancies science fiction can become but that is for another time and another science field discussion or when comics realized that Shogo should have grown to an actual talking child by now *wink* *wink*
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719643]do u have feats for chthon? I know roma mentioned life itself couldn't exist without adversary so that says a lot but I'm not familiar with chthon.[/QUOTE]
Basically chthon is the primordial god of chaos and the source of the very potent magic called chaos magic. He is the source of Wanda's power and the reason why she was able to do M day.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5719666]It doesn't gloss over anything when coates himself used it in his book. So you can say coates went back and retcon a retcon or you can completely ignore what he said in the book about how ororo felt when she was a goddess. okay. either way don't mean much to me. I'm simply posting what's in the encyclopedia.
edit: and the encyclopedia copyright 2020. So that's what marvel want everyday people to know and i'm good with that.
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Yea. I love encyclopedias like the next person but it is not technically canon. The pages from actual 616 from the xoffices make it VERY CLEAR Ororo was not a true god. She herself even supported that prior to Coates intervention:
[img]https://www.mdcu-comics.fr/uploads/encyclo/images/2015/09/21/encyclo_illustre_1295462500.jpg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SOE4ShjtDa0Qf8eMJ_7B3balOxsRvtWdllS-mtb3v-aH99C8aViOUIL4lCji8m_nT1hCYzaNFh-wVlblPumlrHO820s_KNdJQ6fo0I2KWpjOhJLxPPSvWIJ4a0njl-K5T2l-W7YRmw=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3Uq8W4zar66KWJg5xnVcQMl6wthh397nH3VZGRQyE3ot4sKv0P2nDttdUTRcVCDVfAiX_S07NoWwpfXVidafIkKUbDXWkGtir0kzdXuOGTDJMOdeFZqDB-VL_TT_jnLjDgi6g0E3rw=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719796]Yea. I love encyclopedias like the next person but it is not technically canon. The pages from actual 616 from the xoffices make it VERY CLEAR Ororo was not a true god. She herself even supported that prior to Coates intervention:
[img]https://miro.***********/max/1400/1*U6ehWAZ0uAWZ6kfu7QSekw.jpeg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SOE4ShjtDa0Qf8eMJ_7B3balOxsRvtWdllS-mtb3v-aH99C8aViOUIL4lCji8m_nT1hCYzaNFh-wVlblPumlrHO820s_KNdJQ6fo0I2KWpjOhJLxPPSvWIJ4a0njl-K5T2l-W7YRmw=s1600[/_img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3Uq8W4zar66KWJg5xnVcQMl6wthh397nH3VZGRQyE3ot4sKv0P2nDttdUTRcVCDVfAiX_S07NoWwpfXVidafIkKUbDXWkGtir0kzdXuOGTDJMOdeFZqDB-VL_TT_jnLjDgi6g0E3rw=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
okay. i have nothing else to add on that cause i. don't. care. No one is going to read every issue of x-men just to have this tired debate. so cool.
But anyway may as well put here too. Storm creating sand storm. [ATTACH=CONFIG]113487[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]113488[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=dirtynun;5719793]Basically chthon is the primordial god of chaos and the source of the very potent magic called chaos magic. He is the source of Wanda's power and the reason why she was able to do M day.[/QUOTE]
gotcha. well based upon this honestly I'm not sure. I dont think adversary has as many feats as the other character though.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719816]gotcha. well based upon this honestly I'm not sure. I dont think adversary has as many feats as the other character though.[/QUOTE]
Yh but that's the thing though chthon is a primordial god an elder god as old and as ancient as well Gaia, oshtur. He has reality warping that is unparalleled and is one of the very few beings capable of affecting and hurting the singular manifestation of all life the pheonix force. Adversary is a chaos god but he is a trickster ultimately. I was thinking about the two of them wondering if they came to head who would win and from the looks of it chthon would edge out adversary.....
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5719802]okay. i have nothing else to add on that cause i. don't. care. No one is going to read every issue of x-men just to have this tired debate. so cool.
But anyway may as well put here too. Storm creating sand storm. [ATTACH=CONFIG]113487[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]113488[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
I dont expect everyone to read every issue but I also don't expect readers to change the history of a character either. storm fans were taken to tasks by everyone online when they asserted she was a goddess and it was because at that time Storm was never considered a real goddess and there are innumerable issues that state this. Its not debate its just canonical truth.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5719841]I dont expect everyone to read every issue but I also don't expect readers to change the history of a character either. storm fans were taken to tasks by everyone online when they asserted she was a goddess and it was because at that time Storm was never considered a real goddess and there are innumerable issues that state this. Its not debate its just canonical truth.[/QUOTE]
okay and now your doing the work for them an invalidated all your old arguments because as you said she wasn't a goddess until coates made her one. notice i haven't disagreed with you, i haven't said you are wrong, i just don't live in the past and don't care. So i don't get what is trying to be accomplished.
