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Mr. Cockrum, God bless him and Goddess keep him, is no longer writing the X-Men and 80 % of those initial intentions, not just for Storm but ALL Marvel characters, have changed over the decades...why are we so beholden to some grandiose plans as if they were immutable Gospel?
Do we really want Storm: Alpha and Omega the One Goddess above ALL?
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5563124]Do we really need Storm to be that overpowered?[/QUOTE]
Don't worry because she never will be. We are talking about the vastness of her powerset. I know that makes some storm fans uncomfortable for their own reasons but as surely as marvel is marvel she would keep throwing wind and lightning.
[QUOTE=Ser Pounce;5563142]No. She was best depowered. Her character flourished. Mary Sues are boring.[/QUOTE]
Ehhhh, it was when her charachter got a more intense focus. But she can still be that interesting and have her powers develop for the love of Christ! She has been basically doing the same thing since she first appeared but now she just throws lightning 99 percent of the time. Maybe my nature of getting bored with overused things is what makes me want to get her to develop beyond rain, wind lightning. To get both power and charachter development she needs a solo book and since that is not happening anytime soon well we getting lightning lass till ......
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5563147]Mr. Cockrum, God bless him and Goddess keep him, is no longer writing the X-Men and 80 % of those initial intentions, not just for Storm but ALL Marvel characters, have changed over the decades...why are we so beholden to some grandiose plans as if they were immutable Gospel?
Do we really want Storm: Alpha and Omega the One Goddess above ALL?[/QUOTE]
The original intention was always there it was what claremont was trying and to some extent developed. I mean pheonix is possibly the single most powerful female charachter in all of marvel and her original conception was based of storms power level.
I know some of us here are interested in her charachter development only I do enjoy her charachter a lot. But she needs to develop in other aspects as well. And trust me as long as jean or Hope or wanda exist storm won't be the aloha and omega whatever you said. We just want more than lightning lass. Because when you understand the basics of how her powers work the sheer insurmountable potential to them and just how vast their capabilities are and you see her doing the same basic stuff for 40 years it becomes a bit jarring. I can say for a fact that she is as if not a little more powerful than when she first came in the difference is that the current storm has more experience. The reason we don't see this as a problem is that she is already top shelf material but in bobby people were annoyed by how much he was wasting his potential. Unlike the other krakoans it seems storm doesn't want to be resurected after she dies.
And what's so wrong with not being able to grasp the EM field across an entire galaxy in one hand while creating a worm hole to another dimension with the other and simultaneously terraforming all the planets of the solar system, all by herself?
It's arguable that her very best years as a Marvel character, as a woman, as a leader...were when she was depowered. When did being "omnipotent and unbeatable" become the dream-goal?
Based on how Marvel have always treated every single cosmically over powered powered character, Storm becoming Goddess-Phoenix like is not really the direction we should be aiming for.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5563158]And what's so wrong with not being able to grasp the EM field across an entire galaxy in one hand while creating a worm hole to another dimension with the other and simultaneously terraforming all the planets of the solar system, all by herself?
It's arguable that her very best years as a Marvel character, as a woman, as a leader...was when she was depowered. When did being "omnipotent and unbeatable" become the dream-goal?[/QUOTE]
Ahhh who said they want her to be omnipotent over here, do you understand what it means to be Omnipotent?
We are talking about her powers the basic mechanics as marvel describes it themselves.
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In this it is stated her power perceives the universe as a pnorama of energy and forces which she can control. We exploring the meaning and capabilities of that is part of the discourse the vauge language of comics encourage. Hickman didn't say limitless potential but undefinable because it was ambiguous and would promote discourse. Exploring her abilities and their potential capabilities is not the came as saying we want her to be able to warp reality, or break the universe or become the new one above all. We are simply exploring what is on the paper nothing more nothing less.
Also like I stated the reason many see her depowerd stage as her best is because the went deep into her charachter the dichotomy of who she was then and who she was depowerd. How creative she had to be to handle situations now depowerd she isn't at her best when depowerd or when a leader she is simply still Storm. This wired mentality that she being powerless somehow made her a better charachter with people glorifying that when she stated periodically how much she missed being at one with the elements like her voice in the matter doesn't register to them.
That period happened so we get to understand who storm truly is what her motivations are and what the limits to her will are and from that we get to see her intimately. Storm is not best as leader neither is she worst for it. She has had high moments and low ones high during gold/blue and Xtreme for example. And low during IvX. She doesn't need to be a leader to be storm even a 76' article stated that she is above it. And that she allows Scott to be the leader because it is how he can grow into who he really is. Now that same development needs to go to other aspects of her, family, powers, ties, romantic partners (yukio)....etc. this development needs to be all round not just leader and badass street fighter aspects.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563099]Not really matter manipulation is not reality warping. They are different abilities usually mistaken for the other. Matter manipulation can't control at least in theory forces like gravity, space, time, concepts like order, chaos....etc. it's limited to materials or substances. But on the EM from yes she can in THEORY because em is the energy that governs all physical phenomenon chemistry, biology all fundamentally work due to EM and if she has direct control over this fundamental force on an omega level then yh in THEORY it should be possible to transmute matter. But like I said this is likely never to be explored.[/QUOTE]
Actually that’s false. Sersi was creating reality while chaos king was destroying it. Universal control is a sub power of high tier matter manipulation which means the user can control all the forces of nature, space-time and more.
There's nothing wrong with delving into different aspects of Storm's power. But things get iffy when a writer develops things to a point that the character becomes broken as hell, making their teammates pointless. This goes for a lot of super powerful characters. But as long as it's done in a reasonable way, I see no problem with playing around with Storm's powers. But I can see making her too overpowered can cause problems down the line. It takes a lot of creativity to strike the right balance.
Also now with Storm going into space, Ewing can potentially go as far as he wants. And besides, once Storm is back down to Earth, her power scale can reset itself.
While reality warping warps reality.. matter manipulation can also do the same. We must take into account there are different levels and to these abilities.
Domino warping reality doesn’t compare to Wanda for example
We also must understand there are different mechanisms behind the abilities. Reality warping control reality while matter manipulation works with reality itself.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5562299]Since frogs and locusts aren't actually part of naturally occurring weather systems...she might have been going a tad overboard there. I suppose, she herself could scoop up all the frogs and locusts with wind and make it "rain" amphibians and insects but that seems a little extreme even for her.
The other stuff though...tornadoes of fire, the superheated nitrates seem more doable...if she really wanted to be devastating.
Aside from that...I liked that look for her. The cropped halter, sleeves, skirt over pants...they worked for that Storm.[/QUOTE]
Technically, any extant thing in nature is part of the system. One of the commentators mentioned the difference between manifestation vs. manipulation. Frogs, fish, cats, dogs, locusts have all been documented as "raining" from the sky even to this day. The phenomenon is physically possible provided the raw materials exist in the system (case in point "sandstorms"). It would be a stretch for Ororo to rain down locusts and the like on Mars, but not so far stretched on Earth. Hope that makes this argument clear.
[QUOTE=KLY360;5563164]Actually that’s false. Sersi was creating reality while chaos king was destroying it. Universal control is a sub power of high tier matter manipulation which means the user can control all the forces of nature, space-time and more.[/QUOTE]
How does matter translate to time and space. How can matter manipulation control the concepts of order or chaos. I don't know how it can do that.
[QUOTE=Jalysia;5563168]There's nothing wrong with delving into different aspects of Storm's power. But things get iffy when a writer develops things to a point that the character becomes broken as hell, making their teammates pointless. This goes for a lot of super powerful characters. But as long as it's done in a reasonable way, I see no problem with playing around with Storm's powers. But I can see making her too overpowered can cause problems down the line. It takes a lot of creativity to strike the right balance.
Also now with Storm going into space, Ewing can potentially go as far as he wants. And besides, once Storm is back down to Earth, her power scale can reset itself.[/QUOTE]
Exactly I would love for her to really streatch to as far as she can possibly go in space, we know she is always holding back on earth due to the delicate system. When she is back on earth then we see her come back to normal die to the delicate balance.
I've seen storm depowered, I've seen her as a leader, I've seen her as a follower. I dont want to read a street-leveler depowered storm. if I wanted that I was just read Catwoman or something. let's finally see her at her full potential exploring the universe embracing all of who she is. she doesn't have to be perfect or win all the time but we also should be aware that ororo isn't a black widow type character. give her rogues that will test the limits of her abilities not ignore them. she has power and all aspects of her abilities and personality should be explored but we rarely see this. she typically is just shooting lightning so let's try something different for once.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563181]I've seen storm depowered, I've seen her as a leader, I've seen her as a follower. I dont want to read a street-leveler depowered storm. if I wanted that I was just read vatman or something. let's finally see her at her full potential exploring the universe embracing all of who she is. she doesn't have to be perfect or win all the time but we also should be aware that ororo isn't a black widow type character. give her rogues that will test the limits of her abilities not ignore them. she has power and all aspects of her abilities and personality should be explored but we rarely see this. she typically is just shooting lightning so let's try something different for once.[/QUOTE]
Said and done!
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563186]Said and done![/QUOTE]
you agree with what I said lol?
because we ain't see it yet. I think Coates and Hickman definitely took the first steps in the right direction for sure.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563194]you agree with what I said lol?
because we ain't see it yet. I think Coates and Hickman definitely took the first steps in the right direction for sure.[/QUOTE]
Yes exactly you are absolutely correct.
She has all this potential and they want her to be the next street fighter. Storm is more than that storm is literally freaking STORM!. The only superhero Beyonce herself aspires to be. They always allude to her powers being more and more Coates established her mystical side perfectly she has a godhead which can transform her into a divine being of untold power. She is an omega level mutant who Hickman in Giant size x-men alludes to having no true limits to wat she can do to the weather. This need exploration. Her power her personality, her family, her love all these matter equally. As amazing as her hand to hand abilities are they are not all of her. Lightning is literally a sub of a sub of a sub set of her omega level ability. But we are going to ignore her intense potential and just want her to be depowerd.
If they think she would be too overpowered they shouldn't worry like I said Wanda, carol, Sue and jean are all there. And marvel would be dammed before storm surpassed them. I mean they gave carol magic, sur has hyper space powers, jean has a pink form and don't get me started on wanda and her god chaos magic.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563210]Yes exactly you are absolutely correct.
She has all this potential and they want her to be the next street fighter. Storm is more than that storm is literally freaking STORM!. The only superhero Beyonce herself aspires to be. They always allude to her powers being more and more Coates established her mystical side perfectly she has a godhead which can transform her into a divine being of untold power. She is an omega level mutant who Hickman in Giant size x-men alludes to having no true limits to wat she can do to the weather. This need exploration. Her power her personality, her family, her love all these matter equally. As amazing as her hand to hand abilities are they are not all of her. Lightning is literally a sub of a sub of a sub set of her omega level ability. But we are going to ignore her intense potential and just want her to be depowerd.
If they think she would be too overpowered they shouldn't worry like I said Wanda, carol, Sue and jean are all there. And marvel would be dammed before storm surpassed them. I mean they gave carol magic, sur has hyper space powers, jean has a pink form and don't get me started on wanda and her god chaos magic.[/QUOTE]
beautifully said my friend!
I agreed with all you of what you said but I want to pay special attention to the part regarding the other marvel super ladies. all these ladies are immensely powerful and have many stories that highlight this but when it comes to storm, a character literally created to be the most powerful female character (she came after all the ones you listed) there are some that wish to only see her do so much. I for the life of me cannot understand it. I respect all storm fans here and if people want to see that more power to them but I just personally want more than a status quo storm or one who is depowered.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563250]beautifully said my friend!
I agreed with all you of what you said but I want to pay special attention to the part regarding the other marvel super ladies. all these ladies are immensely powerful and have many stories that highlight this but when it comes to storm, a character literally created to be the most powerful female character (she came after all the ones you listed) there are some that wish to only see her do so much. I for the life of me cannot understand it. I respect all storm fans here and if people want to see that more power to them but I just personally want more than a status quo storm or one who is depowered.[/QUOTE]
Under Ewing's pen I hope a change comes.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563257]Under Ewing's pen I hope a change comes.[/QUOTE]
I can see it happening. he undid Byrnes retcon with doom during roguestorm and he is one of the few writers who respectfully incorporates canon of characters used in his book. so im hopeful. we shall see.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563266]I can see it happening. he undid Byrnes retcon with doom during roguestorm and he is one of the few writers who respectfully incorporates canon of characters used in his book. so im hopeful. we shall see.[/QUOTE]
Yh and with the creative stuff he does with manifold I am in love with his work. The ultimates was french kiss and sword is the best of the xbooks. Manifold stated that there is someone more who can talk to the universe and y'all know sis can speak nature itself to do stuff.
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563301]Yh and with the creative stuff he does with manifold I am in love with his work. The ultimates was french kiss and sword is the best of the xbooks. Manifold stated that there is someone more who can talk to the universe and y'all know sis can speak nature itself to do stuff.[/QUOTE]
hopefully she goes there but at this point it hasn't been confirmed yet.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563308]hopefully she goes there but at this point it hasn't been confirmed yet.[/QUOTE]
Yh fingers crossed and nose pinched. But it feels wired that they are keeping it a secret like they realeases everything the two upcoming books, the new x-men but Storm's big new gig is still under wraps? Like why? What could warrant such secretive behaviour? Because if it's sword we all think it is just waiting for confirmation.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563181]I've seen storm depowered, I've seen her as a leader, I've seen her as a follower. I dont want to read a street-leveler depowered storm. if I wanted that I was just read Catwoman or something. let's finally see her at her full potential exploring the universe embracing all of who she is. she doesn't have to be perfect or win all the time but we also should be aware that ororo isn't a black widow type character. give her rogues that will test the limits of her abilities not ignore them. she has power and all aspects of her abilities and personality should be explored but we rarely see this. she typically is just shooting lightning so let's try something different for once.[/QUOTE]
PERIODDDD!!!!
WE have seen everything but what was needed
Thinking about how it’s confirmed Storm is stronger then Sue, Dr. Strange, and more and is stated to be the strongest Omega ��
[QUOTE=dirtynun;5563321]Yh fingers crossed and nose pinched. But it feels wired that they are keeping it a secret like they realeases everything the two upcoming books, the new x-men but Storm's big new gig is still under wraps? Like why? What could warrant such secretive behaviour? Because if it's sword we all think it is just waiting for confirmation.[/QUOTE]
that is the big question. I'm not sure why there is this whole secrecy with what storms next steps are. the fact that they have hyped it up and haven't said anything is why they better go big with whatever it is.
[QUOTE=Stormultt Divine;5563476]PERIODDDD!!!!
WE have seen everything but what was needed[/QUOTE]
Hell yes boo thank you !
[QUOTE=KLY360;5563707]Thinking about how it’s confirmed Storm is stronger then Sue, Dr. Strange, and more and is stated to be the strongest Omega ��[/QUOTE]
never freaking forget. she's the Omega's omega and that's on period:
[img]https://static3.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/savage-avengers-19-storm-feature.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=370&dpr=1.5[/img]
[img]https://community.cbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107779&d=1616777079[/img]
I just think that her Omega and Divine potential should be further more explored before we assume absolute truth that she is stronger than Strange and etc. because if we look at feats and this kinda of stuff unfortunately Ororo was a lot more a victim of bad writting than Stephan, Hulk, Thor, Sue for the past few decades.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5563766]I just think that her Omega and Divine potential should be further more explored before we assume absolute truth that she is stronger than Strange and etc. because if we look at feats and this kinda of stuff unfortunately Ororo was a lot more a victim of bad writting than Stephan, Hulk, Thor, Sue for the past few decades.[/QUOTE]
I agree that she definitely does need more exploration with these things that much cannot be argued. I will say that it is nice to see writers acknowledge that she is more powerful than some of the more known and accepted heavy weights of marvel. it could be a foreshadowing of what is to come.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563768]I agree that she definitely does need more exploration with these things that much cannot be argued. I will say that it is nice to see writers acknowledge that she is more powerful than some of the more known and accepted heavy weights of marvel. it could be a foreshadowing of what is to come.[/QUOTE]
honestly, I'm like: "show me, don't tell me".
They said she's an omega so show her being one, they claim she's a Goddess so show her being one.
I just tired of marvel hyping us.
upcoming storm art.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2pBqV_XIAEjZ65?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
[QUOTE=KLY360;5563707]Thinking about how it’s confirmed Storm is stronger then Sue, Dr. Strange, and more and is stated to be the strongest Omega ��[/QUOTE]
Unless Sue, Dr Strange and ALL the Omegas suddenly go evil and try to destroy the very fabric of reality and all life and Storm as the only hero left standing to oppose them...then...Storm being the strongest one, none of that actually means anything.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5563770]honestly, I'm like: "show me, don't tell me".
They said she's an omega so show her being one, they claim she's a Goddess so show her being one.
I just tired of marvel hyping us.[/QUOTE]
I agree. the xoffices have a really bad habit of saying all the great things through lip service without any tangible evidence. it's great to say she is the omegas omega but when you only show her shooting lightning that doesn't really mean much. i mean look at xos we were told she would have a pivotal role in that saga but it really fell flat.. it was mostly used as a vehicle to try and cement discord between her and wakanda but beyond that what did she really do? honestly mr. Coates has been the one true writer to claim she is a writer and show us that she is. im not convinced the xoffices are going that route with her yet.
yeah Coates was one of her few recent writers who managed to give her a decent development, I will miss his run. Duggan tried ..., Hickmann seems to be handling her well but I don't think it is enough yet, I hope Ewing do a good job.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5563788]yeah Coates was one of her few recent writers who managed to give her a decent development, I will miss his run. Duggan tried ..., Hickmann seems to be handling her well but I don't think it is enough yet, I hope Ewing do a good job.[/QUOTE]
what have you liked with what the xoffices have done with her thus far? separate from what occurred in black panther.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563792]what have you liked with what the xoffices have done with her thus far? separate from what occurred in black panther.[/QUOTE]
so far, what I liked the most was her GS which showed how Ororo values life and also that she still her mental defenses, beyond that are just few memorable things, looking now XOS could have been better.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5563802]so far, what I liked the most was her GS which showed how Ororo values life and also that she still her mental defenses, beyond that are just few memorable things, looking now XOS could have been better.[/QUOTE]
yea I enjoyed gs as well. my only complaint is that it wasn't worded. there were so many questions that I had that I think would have been explained had it been lettered.
and agreed about everything else. do you think exploring her godhead would make her too op for the xmen?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5563825]yea I enjoyed gs as well. my only complaint is that it wasn't worded. there were so many questions that I had that I think would have been explained had it been lettered.
and agreed about everything else. do you think exploring her godhead would make her too op for the xmen?[/QUOTE]
on my mind would have a chance of that happening, but it's clearly if the x-office start to develop this would probably put some limitation in order to not make her teammates useless, I just don't want that it receive the same treatment that Jean (Phoenix) received.
[QUOTE=HeraldOfStorm;5563924]on my mind would have a chance of that happening, but it's clearly if the x-office start to develop this would probably put some limitation in order to not make her teammates useless, I just don't want that it receive the same treatment that Jean (Phoenix) received.[/QUOTE]
yea thats understandable. I think that is why her being in space may work better in terms of rogues. her being in skirmishes with humans with guns don't really test the full range of her abilities. xos would have been nice to see her cut loose but even then all we got was a thunderstorm. hoping Ewing gets a chance to write her.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5563773]Unless Sue, Dr Strange and ALL the Omegas suddenly go evil and try to destroy the very fabric of reality and all life and Storm as the only hero left standing to oppose them...then...Storm being the strongest one, none of that actually means anything.[/QUOTE]
Not really we don't need her to be beating them to prove she is stronger, hell we do not need her even proving she is stronger. We just need her to be developed in respect to her abilities which are practically brimming with potentental to an incalculable degree.
Like take electro doing something like this.
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He can create electromagnetic storms localized enough and use said storms to carbonize atoms in the atmosphere to trap his opponents in a she the as strong as diamond. Storm is much more powerful electrokinetic than him his maximum is 10 million volts she can create and control bolts which are above a billion volts. Plus also has direct control over magnetic fields and such. This should be something she should be able to do to her opponents and to to herself as a means of protection. But instead we get lightning lass. This is why we want her powers to get explored or else the charachter just looks more of the same.
I completely understand wanting her powers explored...but...as I've stated many times in this thread...it's not a competition especially among heroes. It should never be that. So placing her above Sue Storm and Dr. Strange is silly and irrelevant. Comparing her to Electro is equally pointless because they're two distinctly separate characters with vastly different in-story motivations and written by different people.
Genuine question: So, why? What purpose does it serve?