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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402231][img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/0b/a5/360ba58d124c6222d8bd9cbc4b1f9bca.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/8/b0/51141f5a19cbc/background.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]It don't count. It isn't a hairstyle if she didn't choose it.[/COLOR]
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Depending on the artist's style, Storm has had many variations to her appearance under the numerous artists and colourists over her long publication history. Some have given her a more athletic frame, others have made her look waifish, and others sometimes thicc...some have coloured her dark brown, medium brown, light brown and every brown shade in between...
What some may see as white-washing I see as the colourist just not getting his skin-tone palette quite accurate. Regardless of how light they would have coloured her, intentionally or not, if you know and understand her history, Storm cannot be viewed as anything other than a Black woman.
Again...that's not to say that one ore two persons may not have had ulterior motives but if you read and know her visual history you would more than likely realise that those intentions are quite few and very far between.
When Land "drew" Storm in Fraction's run...she looked like a skinny white woman in face and body, with a tan. Land illustrated her as such because that's his style...I'm not excusing it...but you cannot definitively say that he was intentionally white-washing her...because he drew ALL his women like that. But on paper, in-story...we all knew her to be Storm.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402253][COLOR="#000080"]It don't count. It isn't a hairstyle if she didn't choose it.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I dont think that is hairstyles work lovely. lol
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5402272]I dont think that is hairstyles work lovely. lol[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Nope, don't count.[/COLOR]
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@Fall_From_Grace
seconded. This is pretty much where I stand on the subject.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5402066]Can't the same be said of Storm? With her natural blue eyes and platinum hair?[/QUOTE]
Please you people have to understand that Africa is a VERY genetically diverse continent. Infact all continents put together won't get even close to the variation on the continent. West africans and east africans have very unique features though both are black. East Africans somalia, Ethiopians and the like usually have thin pointed, noses, looser textured hair and thinner lips. West africans well have the typical phenotypes we associate with black. We have the darkest people in earth, and the lightest people on earth. We have the tallest people the nhilotes, and the shortest people pygmys. Variation in eye colour dies occur though not common due to the advantage of melanated eyes in a sun rich region. My father has blue eyes he is not mixed, his eyes have been a burden especially since he grew up near tge equator in Africa he has to use eye drops and glasses to quell the pain the sun has done to his eyes. We even have red heads, like actual afro redheads who produce phenomenon rather than eumelanin
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I want storm to have her white hair and blue eyes that goes with the magical ancestry of her character. If people want to see certain hair styles it's great we have monica for that. Personally I've always hated how artists try to "black" storm up by making her hair more curly as though that somehow now made it okay for her to be pictured with the other black heros. I have sisters and cousins with straight hair and super curly hair I don't see why one type of black person has to be made less than to make another feel more like but you can have manga characters and white actors running around with their head looking like a darn rainbow.
Also I do blame the artist and the companies that keep giving them work if they can't draw visual features of everyday humans. That's like me being paid to be an accountant but not being able to add. Your style is the work. Or rather the work informs the style. Don't give them work if they can't present variety. Imo slapping paint on a person with european features in all cases of diversity cause they really do asians wrong, is no different than black face. False representation or a lack there of. I'm sure young girls care more about storm face and her complexion and her demenar than if she got braids. Valekyrie had braids right.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5402620]I want storm to have her white hair and blue eyes that goes with the magical ancestry of her character. If people want to see certain hair styles it's great we have monica for that. Personally I've always hated how artists try to "black" storm up by making her hair more curly as though that somehow now made it okay for her to be pictured with the other black heros. I have sisters and cousins with straight hair and super curly hair I don't see why one type of black person has to be made less than to make another feel more like but you can have manga characters and white actors running around with their head looking like a darn rainbow.
Also I do blame the artist and the companies that keep giving them work if they can't draw visual features of everyday humans. That's like me being paid to be an accountant but not being able to add. Your style is the work. Or rather the work informs the style. Don't give them work if they can't present variety. Imo slapping paint on a person with european features in all cases of diversity cause they really do asians wrong, is no different than black face. False representation or a lack there of. I'm sure young girls care more about storm face and her complexion and her demenar than if she got braids. Valekyrie had braids right.[/QUOTE]
Once again you [U][B]perfectly[/B][/U] state my feelings on an issue. Well said!!
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Some readers want Storm to look like/representative of how Black people actually look. But what exactly do Black people look like? Because Dirtynun is absolutely right...we come in all shapes and sizes, heights, skin tones, eye colours, hair colours, facial features.
It's more truthful to say: They want Storm to look more like themselves. (whatever "they" look like) And that's perfectly fine and understandable, if a tad unrealistic to an extent because "they" don't necessarily represent what ALL and EVERY Black woman look like.
And understand the nature of the medium...Storm, throughout her published history, has had many visual iterations because she been illustrated and coloured by many great artists with vastly differing styles.
Cockrum, Byrne, Smith, Romita Jr., Windsor-Smith, Silvestri, Simonson, Adams, Leonardi, Madureira, Coipel, Land, Pacheco, Larroca, Jimenez, Eaton, Yardin, Lopez, Portella, Stroman, Lashley Larraz, Lolli, Caselli...just to name a few.
While we all have our personal favourites, I can and do greatly appreciate what each and every one of those artists (with the exception of Land and the current X-Factor artist) have brought to Storm with their talent and style over the many decades.
And when you [I]objectively[/I] look at how she's been illustrated by all these artists she does become the iconic representative of what Black truly looks like because...we all DON'T look like one specific vision or idea.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5402620]
[B]Also I do blame the artist and the companies that keep giving them work if they can't draw visual features of everyday humans.[/B] That's like me being paid to be an accountant but not being able to add. Your style is the work. Or rather the work informs the style. Don't give them work if they can't present variety. Imo slapping paint on a person with european features in all cases of diversity cause they really do asians wrong, is no different than black face. False representation or a lack there of. I'm sure young girls care more about storm face and her complexion and her demenar than if she got braids. Valekyrie had braids right.[/QUOTE]
Before you do that remember the following-
Some of those artist are TOLD by editors to do certain faces. A Star Trek artist for DC spoke about this on Deviant Art. As did Tom Richmond who drew Married With Children comics for Now Comics in the 90s.
They had to go back and make faces generic. Richmond saw his Peg Bundy art get redo to fix her nose in every issue. Notice in Boom's Power Rangers-everyone looks like their tv version except for Zack.
Others just drew and it was the colorist who made folks one skin color over the other. HI Archie Comics.
Others saw their art redone by others. I can show or point Archie Comics where Chuck Clayton went through 3-6 different changes in the same story that was reprinted 3 times that same year. I have one where he is shown JUST one little issue. The story that he was in was from 1950. He was created in 1972. They turned Reggie into Chuck.
You got volume. They want artists who can produce FAST that is why guys like Land get gigs faster than say Jamal Campbell. Campbell and his work load is the only reason we are not seeing Naomi Season 2 right now. He has too much work. Notice who you don't see-Khary Randolph, Sanford Green and others are NOT doing 20 books. Why? Because they have OTHER jobs.
Finally I would say look at what training some of these artist have had. Liefield had NONE when he started.
When I was in art school (magnet school)-we did not have a comic book drawing class. They do NOW since 2017.
Part of the reason you see the same is because it's EASIER to do on a monthly book. And now you want POC (who were left out of SO many books in them now)-folks are going for a look that is easy to draw over and over again.
I mean look at action figures-Miles, Storm, Panther, Killmonger and others all need NEW head molds. Why does Barbie black Ken and Steven have the same head.
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[COLOR="#000080"]A lot of people are missing the point entirely.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5402934][COLOR="#000080"]A lot of people are missing the point entirely.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
What point would that be, exactly?
We can ALL agree that representation is indeed absolutely important and necessary...that is indisputable.
However, some may want Storm to look more curvy, darker complected, with fuller lips and a more "round" nose and tightly curled hair in Bantu knots or box braids.
And that's all well and good. There have been renditions of Storm meeting those very specific details.
But what about those Black girls and women who are milk chocolate brown, more athletic in build, with looser curls and 'narrower' features, for whom Storm is their favourite Black female superhero? Are they wrong for wanting Storm to look more like them? And Storm has been illustrated and coloured to look just like those specifics.
So....Win-win?
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Worst case scenario... If MCU Storm is model after ultimate X-Men what is there to look forward to?
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I read collected UXM, what's the issue with Storm there?
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I think I get now what a lot of posters are asking for but to be quite honest
...we need more black x-men who aren't bald, made of crystal etc because there are plenty of white characters like Jean, Emma, Scott, Havok etc etc who look completely fine (I have nothing but love for BLING btw) and we need our black x-women to come correct too. The artists and writers are lazy when it comes to black character design.
We need FINE black folk in the x-men imo. Bishop only just now got there for me, a hair cut is all it takes to be honest
Also...Sina Grace is still a disgrace with the whole drag queen thing because Darkveil could have been an amazing representation for black transwomen and black folk in general. The potential character development just went down the drain.
I go on Instagram and see black super heroes by smaller independent companies who look amazing and interesting so there's no reason why the x-verse can't incorporate NEW and relatable black characters while also USING THE ONES THEY ALREADY HAVE.
[img]https://uploadir.com/u/l9ze5mr5[/img]
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[QUOTE=Fall-From-Grace;5402244]I understand what you are saying and yes, I agree that her ancestry found its way through her storylines . I understand the in-story reason for her eyes and hair as well . But I disagree with the ''many'' instances part . She is consistently drawn with either the straight hair( which I get, as it is a part of her look from her creation) or the mohawk and I wish artists would switch it up more .
Moreover, which was something I failed to mention, Storm has been a victim of whitewashing just like other black x-characters , such as Sunspot and Monet. When you add in the straight hair and the blue eyes? As well as many artists drawing her facial features as if she is straight up from Europe? She could very much be a white woman drawn with a slightly darker color. And yes, that bothers me . Because she is, a lot of times, the only black character that gets exposure on the x-men, significant exposure that is, and visually she fails to look like a lot of black people like myself do . And because the X-Office has neglected having other black characters be prominent on the franchise, this weight of representation falls even more on Storm's shoulders, so we look for her to see ourselves in and that doesnt always happen. I've shown Storm to a few black young girls and while they do love her ( I remember one of them calling her Black Storm , and to this day this still remains on my mind, because she simply didnt know any other black superheroes so Storm was extra important to her ) , the topic of her hair and eyes is always brought up . As unique as it makes Storm look , it also is a point of disconnection to a lot of black people. I'm not arguing for it to change, I'm saying: switch up her hairstyles and her outfits more , so I can see her in a comic rocking some afro, some curls, some braids, wearing some african styled outfits , etc.
@Butterflykiss wow, that page can open a huge can of worms . I know Claremont loves Storm and he is the writer who has made her prominent today, but this almost reads as if he is saying, through the characters, that she is black, but not REALLY black. And it goes back to what I said before, since she is the the most prominent black character in the franchise, this almost feels like taking away from her blackness and justifying it.[/QUOTE]
yea that scan is very loaded because it does comes across s if he, through the eyes of the doctor, was trying to make her something other than black. the good thing there have been more instances where she was clearly stated as being black:
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/y6qun3H0idatLQFMwmgu0wpAYvQkA6AY3gIDmRBfFVpH8e-MlD5nGge_AWq3SfkWTjFEZ8Gl0Q4f=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/yq5RoVrOHsWdOeI4UY6Z_kgevBGETNWin2qRL3ipuvZIz4fahHJWnDwp1232GBhfam4m6rW6Z8E=s1600[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/uNtrASNwM2x501SG16ewr9oAFrXh8aBkmHB3wwPZbMaLwp7dhn-3FGy73PtfwaV9ADpstxeNALMd=s1600[/img]
a shame this even has to be said but its the world we live in.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5403048]I read collected UXM, what's the issue with Storm there?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I just wasn't Interested. I mean sure later in the run she got good if not badass. But she just seem so...market research survey default Storm.
If that makes any sense.
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Yes. Actually it does. I didn't vibe with them initially but the books got better, overall.
And it's not only Storm. It seemed not much effort went into establishing what made these teens so special and different other than their powers. I chalk it up to marketing for a younger readership and the writers and editors went the "safe" and "uninspired" route.
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Storm needs another ongoing series. what's up for 2021? Get a black writer and artist. Go digital first if you have to.
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[QUOTE=Stormultt Divine;5403166]I think I get now what a lot of posters are asking for but to be quite honest
I go on Instagram and see[B] black super heroes by smaller independent companies who look amazing and interesting so there's no reason why the x-verse can't incorporate NEW and relatable black characters while also USING THE ONES THEY ALREADY HAVE. [/B]
[img]https://uploadir.com/u/l9ze5mr5[/img][/QUOTE]
There is no Batman or X-Men at Valiant, IDW, Scout, Dark Horse, Oni Press, Titan, Dynamite, Image, After Shock, Ahoy and Boom Studios.
Sales standards are different.
Take Moon Girl-at her worst numbers at Marvel-she would be among the top 10 at most companies and would still get her trades in stores (so cases MORE stores than Marvel).
There is also more freedom. EDITORIAL freedom.
[QUOTE] The artists and writers are lazy when it comes to black character design.[/QUOTE]
Hate to be that person but what is their motivation to do that? What is one of the MAJOR issues that we have seen?
Getting someone to USE those black characters and at times BEYOND the book that they might star in.
Take Synch-he had ONE guest spot in Amazing Spider-Man (WITHOUT Gen X).
John Stewart for the majority of the past 10 years he was restricted to a Green Lantern book. The rest weren't.
Duke Thomas has nothing but cameos in Tom King's Batman run.
GO to a comic con and look at the artist row-how many of US in that art?
Falcon and John Stewart might have been the ONLY ones I saw on art that was NOT a commission by professional artists.
Not Storm, Not Cyborg, Not Black Panther (even with that movie), not Finn from Star Wars, not Lucas from Stranger Things, not Luke Cage and lets not even TALK Static or Miles.
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Does anyone remember the guy that could control the weather? I think he was indian or native american or something. An older character but I cannot remember his name at all. I know it's not Deluge, this guy was brown skinned with somewhat long hair
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[QUOTE=Rosa Snarks;5405131]Does anyone remember the guy that could control the weather? I think he was indian or native american or something. An older character but I cannot remember his name at all. I know it's not Deluge, this guy was brown skinned with somewhat long hair[/QUOTE]
are you talking about shaman:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Drli4lKWoAAp_bg.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5405143]are you talking about shaman:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Drli4lKWoAAp_bg.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
No actually lol. I found him, Aloba Dastoor but thank you Kyss
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[QUOTE=Rosa Snarks;5405592]No actually lol. I found him, Aloba Dastoor but thank you Kyss[/QUOTE]
I wonder why they didn't further expand on him. He looks like a character who could replace Storm when she is not around for the X-men. I wonder if his manipulation was psionic like hers or magical like Thor's...
He is also hot, would have loved to see an alternative character to Storm in 616 who is a male.
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I do love his human name...although the Monsoon is a tad uninspired
If Storm is going to be off in space for a while...it would be really cool and interesting to bring him in and develop his powers further.
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[QUOTE=Rosa Snarks;5405592]No actually lol. I found him, Aloba Dastoor but thank you Kyss[/QUOTE]
lolol I never heard of that character.
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The brother of Haven, who gave [re]birth to the Adversary. They were pretty much just used once in 90's X-Factor. I lovvved Haven, and didn't like the twist that all her powers were just the Adversary the whole time. Monsoon didn't do much. I would love to see Haven reintroduced as a mutant in her own right. Monsoon can come back too. 1/7 mutants should be from India.
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So im hearing whispers that writers are wanting to pitch a storm solo. Writers who have expressed the following or fall into the following categories imho do no need to be considered for such project:
1. Have difficulty writing her using her powers beyond lightning and/or wind
2. Believe that she holds being a mutant above everything else
3. Believe that she is solely a weather manipulator
4. Thinks her being a goddess is nonsense
5. Believes Storm shouldn't or does not see race
6. Refuse to explore aspects of her story beyond being an Xman and/or mutant
7. Do not want to discuss the intersectionality of being a black woman/mutant/goddess
8. Cannot create rogues and/or use existing ones that compliment her powerset.
9. Prefers to rehash old story beats that have been bludgeoned to death (i.e., Callisto, Morlocks)
10. Have an apathy towards Storm and/or Xmen and/or mutantkind
I personally also would prefer a writer that includes her relationship to T'Challa but this detail i dont believe is pivotal to telling a storm solo. Nevertheless, if any of the above apply to you I do not think said writer would do a storm solo any justice.
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[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5405805]I wonder why they didn't further expand on him. He looks like a character who could replace Storm when she is not around for the X-men. I wonder if his manipulation was psionic like hers or magical like Thor's...
He is also hot, would have loved to see an alternative character to Storm in 616 who is a male.[/QUOTE]
According to some Googling, he lost his powers on M-Day. I mean, he can always go through the Crucible, assuming he hadn't already.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5406454]So im hearing whispers that writers are wanting to pitch a storm solo. Writers who have expressed the following or fall into the following categories imho do no need to be considered for such project:
1. Have difficulty writing her using her powers beyond lightning and/or wind
2. Believe that she holds being a mutant above everything else
3. Believe that she is solely a weather manipulator
4. Thinks her being a goddess is nonsense
5. Believes Storm shouldn't or does not see race
6. Refuse to explore aspects of her story beyond being an Xman and/or mutant
7. Do not want to discuss the intersectionality of being a black woman/mutant/goddess
8. Cannot create rogues and/or use existing ones that compliment her powerset.
9. Prefers to rehash old story beats that have been bludgeoned to death (i.e., Callisto, Morlocks)
10. Have an apathy towards Storm and/or Xmen and/or mutantkind
I personally also would prefer a writer that includes her relationship to T'Challa but this detail i dont believe is pivotal to telling a storm solo. Nevertheless, if any of the above apply to you I do not think said writer would do a storm solo any justice.[/QUOTE]
Right at the point!
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The first post in this thread - amazing detail gathering!
[QUOTE=Kitty&Piotr<3;5306222]Let's see Ororo take the world by storm, this year![/QUOTE]
I see what you did there.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5406454]So im hearing whispers that writers are wanting to pitch a storm solo. Writers who have expressed the following or fall into the following categories imho do no need to be considered for such project:
1. Have difficulty writing her using her powers beyond lightning and/or wind
2. Believe that she holds being a mutant above everything else
3. Believe that she is solely a weather manipulator
4. Thinks her being a goddess is nonsense
5. Believes Storm shouldn't or does not see race
6. Refuse to explore aspects of her story beyond being an Xman and/or mutant
7. Do not want to discuss the intersectionality of being a black woman/mutant/goddess
8. Cannot create rogues and/or use existing ones that compliment her powerset.
9. Prefers to rehash old story beats that have been bludgeoned to death (i.e., Callisto, Morlocks)
10. Have an apathy towards Storm and/or Xmen and/or mutantkind
I personally also would prefer a writer that includes her relationship to T'Challa but this detail i dont believe is pivotal to telling a storm solo. Nevertheless, if any of the above apply to you I do not think said writer would do a storm solo any justice.[/QUOTE]
Spot on. Writers definitely need to move on from #1 and #9.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5401111]yes this is why some fans were complaining about that as the black woman blue eyes thing was a storm trait.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, her eyes going white seemed very Storm as well when she is "losing" her pupils. I certainly hope that is not what they felt what they needed to do or what Marvel usually does to all the POC. That just happened to be Storms mutation. I'll... try not to judge and that may just be the effects they chose.
JIM lee did this 80's costume justice being the quintisential 90's artist. She looks majestic and badass - and beautiful of course.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IaChjoO.jpg[/img]
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It's definitely a very, very long shot...given the X-Office's tight reigns on all things/characters X-Krakoa but...I wish Mr. G. Thorne the best of luck in his attempt to pitch a Storm solo to the X-Heads.
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[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5406541]Right at the point![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=twisted sun;5406639]Spot on. Writers definitely need to move on from #1 and #9.[/QUOTE]
Thank you both. if storm is to be a viable solo character i don't think a writer can behold any of those listed attributes.
[QUOTE=Adam-X;5406555]The first post in this thread - amazing detail gathering!
I see what you did there.[/QUOTE]
we storm fans are truly passionate about our All-Goddess and only want nothing for the best for her. thank you for your kind words and thank all the storms fans who contributed to the op!!!!
[QUOTE=From The Shadows;5406720]Yeah, her eyes going white seemed very Storm as well when she is "losing" her pupils. I certainly hope that is not what they felt what they needed to do or what Marvel usually does to all the POC. That just happened to be Storms mutation. I'll... try not to judge and that may just be the effects they chose.
JIM lee did this 80's costume justice being the quintisential 90's artist. She looks majestic and badass - and beautiful of course.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IaChjoO.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
thanks for the information. its hard not to judge knowing Storm's actual iconic esthetics.
nice image too thank you for sharing!
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5406454]So im hearing whispers that writers are wanting to pitch a storm solo. Writers who have expressed the following or fall into the following categories imho do no need to be considered for such project:
1. Have difficulty writing her using her powers beyond lightning and/or wind
2. Believe that she holds being a mutant above everything else
3. Believe that she is solely a weather manipulator
4. Thinks her being a goddess is nonsense
5. Believes Storm shouldn't or does not see race
6. Refuse to explore aspects of her story beyond being an Xman and/or mutant
7. Do not want to discuss the intersectionality of being a black woman/mutant/goddess
8. Cannot create rogues and/or use existing ones that compliment her powerset.
9. Prefers to rehash old story beats that have been bludgeoned to death (i.e., Callisto, Morlocks)
10. Have an apathy towards Storm and/or Xmen and/or mutantkind
I personally also would prefer a writer that includes her relationship to T'Challa but this detail i dont believe is pivotal to telling a storm solo. Nevertheless, if any of the above apply to you I do not think said writer would do a storm solo any justice.[/QUOTE]
Good points. 6, 7, & 8 really need to be stressed.
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[QUOTE=nj06;5408308]Good points. 6, 7, & 8 really need to be stressed.[/QUOTE]
thank you so much friend. I really don't think these are too much to ask for but after years of reading her stories it really appeared this needed to be said.
not sure where this image is from but I loved the message
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvgIPg0XYAQSlRt?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
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0:43 - 1:37 (some spoilers from His Dark Materials HBO) gave me [B][U]SERIOUS[/U][/B] Storm vibes:
[CENTER][video=youtube_share;CP3fr1x66oQ]https://youtu.be/CP3fr1x66oQ?t=43[/video][/CENTER]
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[QUOTE=nj06;5408334]0:43 - 1:37 (some spoilers from His Dark Materials HBO) gave me [B][U]SERIOUS[/U][/B] Storm vibes:
[CENTER][video=youtube_share;CP3fr1x66oQ]https://youtu.be/CP3fr1x66oQ?t=43[/video][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
ha that was some definte storm vibes however I must leave with this:
often imitated never duplicated.
that has me excited for what may come for her in the mcu!!
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[QUOTE=nj06;5408334]0:43 - 1:37 (some spoilers from His Dark Materials HBO) gave me [B][U]SERIOUS[/U][/B] Storm vibes:
[CENTER][video=youtube_share;CP3fr1x66oQ]https://youtu.be/CP3fr1x66oQ?t=43[/video][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
Makes me think of Bloodstorm too, with the mist forms/seemingly superhuman speed. Is this show good? I hadn't heard of it before.