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Forgot to share here. Just a royal dance.
[IMG]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b3a2d9ef-486c-4506-b899-dea303e66635/der77cb-7ad2d16d-b9fc-40c5-82ab-e294bf8d78bf.jpg/v1/fill/w_1063,h_752,q_70,strp/adance_by_jwatson_der77cb-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9OTA2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYjNhMmQ5ZWYtNDg2Yy00NTA2LWI4OTktZGVhMzAzZTY2NjM1XC9kZXI3N2NiLTdhZDJkMTZkLWI5ZmMtNDBjNS04MmFiLWUyOTRiZjhkNzhiZi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.yE0CTPEaEd3-B_fQN0pGVauCjOOZDQ7pr6Cw-aFSkh4[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=pkingdom;5735982]I'm honestly not sure if its Psylock or Armor tbh.
Storm has been importance-adjacent this entire relaunch. She's on the Council, one of the leaders of Krakoa! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand does almost nothing. Maybe has a few lines reacting to other characters. She helps lead the Marauders! But largely plays second fiddle to Emma. Now she's Queen of Mars! But still hasn't shown up much and is likely being manipulated by Brand.
To put it another way, Storm hasn't had much agency in this relaunch. She'll show up and say something or do a cool thing, but its largely spectacle. She doesn't push plots forward on her own, and instead its characters like Xavier, Magneto, Emma and Beast who have real narrative thrust.[/QUOTE]
Storm is never going to drive the narrative or be a big player in Xmen ever again. That officially became clear and definitive to me during Schism. The editors simply have no desire or ability to give her that kind of agency, nor any minority for that matter. But if they are going to keep her around, even as window dressing, I have to take what I can get I guess. The Regent of Sol is the first development in a long time that has potential to be very interesting. It's rife with possibility. So even if she doesn't drive the story, it can still be good for the character so I too am optimistic.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5736486]Forgot to share here. Just a royal dance.
[IMG]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b3a2d9ef-486c-4506-b899-dea303e66635/der77cb-7ad2d16d-b9fc-40c5-82ab-e294bf8d78bf.jpg/v1/fill/w_1063,h_752,q_70,strp/adance_by_jwatson_der77cb-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9OTA2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYjNhMmQ5ZWYtNDg2Yy00NTA2LWI4OTktZGVhMzAzZTY2NjM1XC9kZXI3N2NiLTdhZDJkMTZkLWI5ZmMtNDBjNS04MmFiLWUyOTRiZjhkNzhiZi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.yE0CTPEaEd3-B_fQN0pGVauCjOOZDQ7pr6Cw-aFSkh4[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I love this JWatson.
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[QUOTE=twisted sun;5736569]I love this JWatson.[/QUOTE]
Thanks appreciate it.
How it ended up.
[IMG]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b3a2d9ef-486c-4506-b899-dea303e66635/der7uqm-9e1d968f-6e01-4801-9e48-d109cf47d440.jpg/v1/fill/w_1063,h_752,q_70,strp/thedance_by_jwatson_der7uqm-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9OTA2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYjNhMmQ5ZWYtNDg2Yy00NTA2LWI4OTktZGVhMzAzZTY2NjM1XC9kZXI3dXFtLTllMWQ5NjhmLTZlMDEtNDgwMS05ZTQ4LWQxMDljZjQ3ZDQ0MC5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19._V3hozcJNp0v8k6WqEsrGk9yp_21pLSanOEc7_FoH78[/IMG]
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The x-offices have always been and continue to be deeply racist. Storm is just a token. Ewing was fine on Ultimates but wrote Monica like a moron with no interest in understanding her powers. I have zero faith Storm will do anything. They turned Monet into her penance form because of course, Bishop does nothing and neither does any other character of color. I'm over it.
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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5736617]The x-offices have always been and continue to be deeply racist. Storm is just a token. Ewing was fine on Ultimates but wrote Monica like a moron with no interest in understanding her powers. I have zero faith Storm will do anything. They turned Monet into her penance form because of course, Bishop does nothing and neither does any other character of color. I'm over it.[/QUOTE]
You would think we would have an Asian omega with the sheer number of Asians we have in the world but nope... Guess the xgene is racist as well as queerphobic since it seems to like bequeath mainly straight white men with absolute power and a fetish for redhead too. Well that's ironic considering mutants are a metaphor for queer and black people but ohk.
I keep wondering that If the 2020 BLM protest never happened what would have become of storm would she have stuck with the marauders? For some reason I feel like she would have been. Like there must be a sacrifice before charachters of color are given long past due attention attention.
All in all it's like I expected it or at least my suspicions to be deepened to an uncomfortable degree. It's wierd and I don't like it but it's true unless we get more writers of could in that office we would just get more of this but with pandering.
I really hope sword 8 proves me wrong so this feeling gets tempered.
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If Marvel is as deeply and pervasively racist as some are claiming it to be (with others agreeing) then we really should be boycotting the company as a whole.
Supporting Marvel at this point would be tantamount to every reader of colour giving their bank account number to the KKK.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5736705]If Marvel is as deeply and pervasively racist as some are claiming it to be (with others agreeing) then we really should be boycotting the company as a whole.
Supporting Marvel at this point would be tantamount to every reader of colour giving their bank account number to the KKK.[/QUOTE]
Don't do that. Why do people act like racism means thinking like the KKK? By instantly comparing it to the KKK, you're saying the minority is being overdramatic.
That's my least favorite type of white liberal. If you call them out on something "minor", they instantly bring up the worst of racism in order to downplay their own actions.
Example, this is a response I've often heard...
"So what if I have preferences. I voted for Obama. Shouldn't you be out challenging real racists like the KKK?"
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736374]Mercury speaking as if she were Storm's best fan, the most correct one, lmfao[/QUOTE]
I've never said nor implied that I am "Storm's best fan." What a ludicrous thing to claim I am suggesting or to for anyone to even consider saying about oneself, lol. However, she is one of my favorite characters, and I have both praised and defended her on these boards, contrary to the claims of [I]some[/I]. It truly is a shame that I cannot participate in this thread as often as I would like due to this compulsive and rather obsessive need of a very few to drag my favorite character through the mud with claims based on biases, contortions, and one-sided vendettas.
EDIT: Also, I was somewhat shocked and saddened by the fact that a few people on Twitter seem to know about a particular poster on here who is prone to not only bashing Jean and her fans but also other characters and their fans. They find said poster "strange." Unfortunately, I cannot say that I disagree...
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iPX-hX0AAnVgG?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQV--XIAAgV73?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQYYAWEAUPUvE?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
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No downplaying of any actions or words...I used the KKK as an example of a deeply racist organisation, because such an accusation against the X-Office and thereby Marvel, isn't "minor". Calling out racism on any level is certainly not an overdramatic action. I'm taking the Poster at his word and asking a question...
It wasn't implied that only certain persons in the company or the X-Office are racists (though, I'm sure there are such).
"The X-offices have always been and continue to be deeply racist"...that is a statement of professed fact. So my straightforward question here is if that is what's generally and genuinely believed, (because Storm isn't front and centre or there are no Asian Omegas or Synch hasn't had his variant solo cover yet) given how strongly pro-equality a lot of us are why would/should we still continue to be giving our money to this company?
Instead of deflecting how about just answering the question? Or not...?
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5736749]No downplaying of any actions or words...I used the KKK as an example of a deeply racist organisation, because such an accusation against the X-Office and thereby Marvel, isn't "minor". Calling out racism on any level is certainly not an overdramatic action. I'm taking the Poster at his word and asking a question...
It wasn't implied that only certain persons in the company or the X-Office are racists (though, I'm sure there are such).
"The X-offices have always been and continue to be deeply racist"...that is a statement of professed fact. So my straightforward question here is if that is what's generally and genuinely believed, (because Storm isn't front and centre or there are no Asian Omegas or whatever minority is not pushed) given how strongly pro-equality a lot of us are why would/should we still continue to be giving our money to this company?
Instead of deflecting how about just answering the question? Or not...?[/QUOTE]
Somewhat off-topic but also relating to your post...
What I find curious is how a poster can be so aghast at a scene in which Ororo is depicted as a slave but takes no issue with the writer (i.e., Chris Claremont) who not only dreamt up the scene but, several issues later, also depicted her being subjected to an abhorrent violation in which her body was used without her consent in a sexually suggestive manner.
Actually, I don't find it curious at all. I find it totally indicative of this poster's intent.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5736724]I've never said nor implied that I am "Storm's best fan." What a ludicrous thing to claim I am suggesting or to for anyone to even consider saying about oneself, lol. However, she is one of my favorite characters, and I have both praised and defended her on these boards, contrary to the claims of [I]some[/I]. It truly is a shame that I cannot participate in this thread as often as I would like due to this compulsive and rather obsessive need of a very few to drag my favorite character through the mud with claims based on biases, contortions, and one-sided vendettas.
EDIT: Also, I was somewhat shocked and saddened by the fact that a few people on Twitter seem to know about a particular poster on here who is prone to not only bashing Jean and her fans but also other characters and their fans. They find said poster "strange." Unfortunately, I cannot say that I disagree...
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iPX-hX0AAnVgG?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQV--XIAAgV73?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQYYAWEAUPUvE?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG][/QUOTE]
"Storm fans like myself can't even discuss one of our favorite." Say what's the difference between a fan like you and everyone else here? Do you like Storm? Good, but put her in second place, lol at least you didn't even know she was planetary, you don't seek to know about her, frankly it all started because peoples didn't have the same opinion that Jean is the "most powerful Omega", and you you don't have to prove me anything love.
Butter thinks this and that about Jean, and that's okay, some here disagree, but there's nothing to do, come here to generate another discussion, until one of the two sides settles down, it's not going to lead to anything. And I'm sure Jean fans, you know what she is. I've heard a lot **** that talked about the Storm (Not only here, but everywhere about comics), and I had to keep silent, not to generate an argument that ends up going nowhere.
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736777]"Storm fans like myself can't even discuss one of our favorite." Say what's the difference between a fan like you and everyone else here? Do you like Storm? Good, but put her in second place, lol[/quote]
I am not going to draw out this discussion, but I do want to note this: I have repeatedly opined that Jean and Ororo "are equal," specifically because they have both been depicted defeating one another. This claim that I "put her in second place" is both baseless and immature. Furthermore, I do not feel the need to continuously resort to insulting other characters and their fans just to uplift my favorite character. That is not my style.
Admittedly, weeks/months ago, after a particularly tense exchange in this thread, I did reduce myself to baiting one or two posters into moving the discussion over to the Jean thread by posting that Jean could crush the mind of the "weather witch," and for that, I am regretful. I should not have let someone else's neurosis get to me to such a degree. However, immediately after doing so, I [I]admitted[/I] my intent, but my post was later twisted to suggest I "hate" Ororo.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5736777]...at least you didn't even know she was planetary, you don't seek to know about her, frankly it all started because peoples didn't have the same opinion that Jean is the "most powerful Omega", and you you don't have to prove me anything love.[/quote]
Another baseless claim. Please do not presume to tell me what I know and do not know about one of my favorite characters, in this case, Ororo. Frankly, it all started because I responded to other claims about Jean that contradict canon made by the same poster claiming ad nauseam that Jean is a racist; a claim, mind you, that not only contradicts the character's history and the text upon which it is based but also places her fans in a seemingly untenable position in which it is suggested that they are okay with racism or, worse yet, are racist themselves.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5736777]Butter thinks this and that about Jean, and that's okay, some here disagree, but there's nothing to do, come here to generate another discussion, until one of the two sides settles down, it's not going to lead to anything. And I'm sure Jean fans, you know what she is. I've heard a lot **** that talked about the Storm (Not only here, but everywhere about comics), and I had to keep silent, not to generate an argument that ends up going nowhere.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I know how they think and operate, which is precisely why I A) avoid this thread and B) politely asked them to refrain from addressing me again. As for you, I have never really had any problems with you, so I am not sure why you felt the need to bring my name up in this thread and claim that I was suggesting I am "Storm's best fan." It's both immature and untrue. Please stop.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5736705]If Marvel is as deeply and pervasively racist as some are claiming it to be (with others agreeing) then we really should be boycotting the company as a whole.
Supporting Marvel at this point would be tantamount to every reader of colour giving their bank account number to the KKK.[/QUOTE]
So nothing short of the KKK can be considered racist as far as you're concerned? Ok got it. What a stupid thing to say
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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5736841]So nothing short of the KKK can be considered racist as far as your concerned? Ok got it. What a stupid thing to say[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm somehow it suddenly makes sense.
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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5736841]So nothing short of the KKK can be considered racist as far as you're concerned? Ok got it. What a stupid thing to say[/QUOTE]
Not even remotely close to what I said or even the point of my post but by all means continue to deflect.
I note that the actual question I asked still isn't answered.
If it's genuinely believed the X-Office to be racist (as per your own admission) why do some of you still continue to buy and support their books?
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5736876]Not even remotely close to what I said or even the point of my post but by all means continue to deflect.
I note that the actual question I asked still isn't answered.
If it's genuinely believed the X-Office to be racist (as per your own admission) why do some of you still continue to buy and support their books?[/QUOTE]
Obviously fans of color who notice all the racist trends don't buy as many or any comics. What has the x offices given fans of color to invest in? Your argument is idiotic.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5736816]I am not going to draw out this discussion, but I do want to note this: I have repeatedly opined that Jean and Ororo "are equal," specifically because they have both been depicted defeating one another. This claim that I "put her in second place" is both baseless and immature. Furthermore, I do not feel the need to continuously resort to insulting other characters and their fans just to uplift my favorite character. That is not my style.
Admittedly, weeks/months ago, after a particularly tense exchange in this thread, I did reduce myself to baiting one or two posters into moving the discussion over to the Jean thread by posting that Jean could crush the mind of the "weather witch," and for that, I am regretful. I should not have let someone else's neurosis get to me to such a degree. However, immediately after doing so, I [I]admitted[/I] my intent, but my post was later twisted to suggest I "hate" Ororo.[/QUOTE]
Ororo's powers have always been reduced compared to Jean, which ends up being very annoying, and giving the impression that she is weak compared to Jean. (That's if you're not looking to know the true powers of Ororo)
And frankly, I respect your opinion, but I don't see two as equal, Storm is a Goddess, she can and should have done above the planetarium, but as usual writers are too lazy to write it.
[QUOTE=Mercury;5736816]Another baseless claim. Please do not presume to tell me what I know and do not know about one of my favorite characters, in this case, Ororo. Frankly, it all started because I responded to other claims about Jean that contradict canon made by the same poster claiming ad nauseam that Jean is a racist; a claim, mind you, that not only contradicts the character's history and the text upon which it is based but also places her fans in a seemingly untenable position in which it is suggested that they are okay with racism or, worse yet, are racist themselves.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about the first day I saw you here on this forum, when you came to defend Jean, but then this was all just an act so make a difference about the ability of the Storm's powers. power on a planetary level, something like that), then tried to set a trap, at what cost? Ororo already has many trolls in its fambase, who claim to be a fan but end up making fun of her, some even think she shouldn't be omega, Goddess (By the way, I'm not talking about anyone here, it's an experience I had) I'm from one place that always has to prove Storm's skills.
[QUOTE=Mercury;5736816]Oh, I know how they think and operate, which is precisely why I A) avoid this thread and B) politely asked them to refrain from addressing me again. As for you, I have never really had any problems with you, so I am not sure why you felt the need to bring my name up in this thread and claim that I was suggesting I am "Storm's best fan." It's both immature and untrue. Please stop.[/QUOTE]
Well, I already answered about that, maybe I made a bad impression of you, from the first day I saw you in this forum, because I also saw some of your very hypocritical attitudes, I mentioned your name, because I'm not one to send hints, and to you know that I'm talking about you.. Eita
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5736876]Not even remotely close to what I said or even the point of my post but by all means continue to deflect.
I note that the actual question I asked still isn't answered.
If it's genuinely believed the X-Office to be racist (as per your own admission) why do some of you still continue to buy and support their books?[/QUOTE]
I don't buy any books, but how do you think we should make the Storm, not just her, but other black characters, be recognized, and do these things, stomp their feet to say they're being pushed aside and all that?
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736916]Ororo's powers have always been reduced compared to Jean, which ends up being very annoying, and giving the impression that she is weak compared to Jean. (That's if you're not looking to know the true powers of Ororo)
And frankly, I respect your opinion, but I don't see two as equal, Storm is a Goddess, she can and should have done above the planetarium, but as usual writers are too lazy to write it.[/quote]
Now I understand your bias and that of a few others. In either case, the fact of the matter is, Jean has defeated Ororo before and vice versa. You may not like that they have been depicted as equal - I certainly don't have that problem - but that is truly neither here nor there. Ororo has strengths and capabilities Jean doesn't, and Jean has strengths and capabilities Ororo doesn't. It's quite clear and simple.
[QUOTE=Stormy;5736916]I'm talking about the first day I saw you here on this forum, when you came to defend Jean, but then this was all just an act so make a difference about the ability of the Storm's powers. power on a planetary level, something like that), then tried to set a trap, at what cost? Ororo already has many trolls in its fambase, who claim to be a fan but end up making fun of her, some even think she shouldn't be omega, Goddess (By the way, I'm not talking about anyone here, it's an experience I had) I'm from one place that always has to prove Storm's skills.
Well, I already answered about that, maybe I made a bad impression of you, from the first day I saw you in this forum, because I also saw some of your very hypocritical attitudes, I mentioned your name, because I'm not one to send hints, and to you know that I'm talking about you.. Eita[/QUOTE]
Some of what you've written above I truly do not understand and the rest just seems like you resorting to strawman tactics and ad hominem attacks to deflect from the part you've played in the ongoing discord. We're done here.
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5734673]On the one hand, you're right, for what little I know about Emma, I know she's already gone through a phase of redemption, but I find it very annoying that the two of them never talked about it, as well as Jean...
Changing the subject a bit, [B]Sword #11 cover[/B], I'm really excited to see the Storm kick some alien asses (I'm ignoring Cable in the center of this cover)
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/comicgeeks/comics/covers/large-5853966.jpg?1631831923[/img][/QUOTE]
At least she is back with her old costume. THANK GOD! I can't stand the new one...
And another day, another argument. I do blame this one on butterflyks and Mercury once more. Why would you even raise the fact that Jean is racist... from decades ago like seriously... don't you guys have anything else to do but to badmouth a character. And Mercury once more coming into a Storm Appreciation thread and dropping a bomb and starting yet another argument. Didn't you realize that no matter what you say if you are in a Storm appreciation thread the appreciation will go for Storm and not for Jean.... like seriously? You guys keep going over the same recycled sh*t like the X-Office and their recycled stories.
We need more positivity here, no need for all that negativity regardless if it is for Storm or any other hero like Jean.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5736932]Now I understand your bias and that of a few others. In either case, the fact of the matter is, Jean has defeated Ororo before and vice versa. You may not like that they have been depicted as equal - I certainly don't have that problem - but that is truly neither here nor there. Ororo has strengths and capabilities Jean doesn't, and Jean has strengths and capabilities Ororo doesn't. It's quite clear and simple.[/QUOTE]
It can be said that they are the same, from a few years until today (although it has already decreased) but they are not treated like that, by the X-mens' own fanbase and by the writers themselves. Lol, Ororo even fell into the hands of a racist writer (which I wouldn't know if they hadn't warned me) who changed the concepts of his powers. And every time some "fan" posted scans of Jean taking down the Storm (one written by Tom Taylor and another that Jean was with the phoenix) all to make fun of the Storm, I'm not saying you're one of those people, but part of my hostile behavior is because I came from a place like this, and it sucks to have to see a character who is not treated like another character, or not let her do something another character has to do (an example of this is when Jean collected an oxygen bubble with her telekinesis, saving everyone, something like that), I'm not just talking about powers, but also about history, and the like, I really want to see Ororo teaching young elemental mutants, but they never showed it right. .
[QUOTE=Mercury;5736932] Same of what you've written above I truly do not understand and the rest just seems like you resorting to strawman tactics and ad hominem attacks to deflect from the part you've played in the ongoing discord. We're done here.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I think everyone here noticed, otherwise, now you know I'm Brazilian, lol. And about Jean being racist, I prefer to be quiet, although I don't agree with some Butterflykyss things, but I don't like Jean and I don't hate her (and yes some of her fans) but she's like Pigeon to me, you know? So it ended here.
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[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5736965]At least she is back with her old costume. THANK GOD! I can't stand the new one...[/QUOTE]
lmao, you're not the only one who thinks that way, I have a friend who doesn't really like the fact that Ororo is always wearing her evening gown, because it's very glamorous..
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736923]I don't buy any books, but how do you think we should make the Storm, not just her, but other black characters, be recognized, and do these things, stomp their feet to say they're being pushed aside and all that?[/QUOTE]
Well...not calling the X-Office (which has a history of putting Storm first and using other minority characters foremost for decades under Claremont and others) racist, would be a good start.
Recognising that other characters of colour such as Tempo, Synch, Kwannon, Manifold, Sunfire who've been given their moments to grow and shine...as Storm with a major upgrade in both power and status...even if she's not driving all the stories in which she appears, front and centre...would seem to indicate that they're not in fact racist.
Most times, decisions to put certain characters front and centre are based on story/writer preference or editorial mandate as with Wolverine, which is their creative right, and which doesn't make them racist for not preferring a minority character.
Right now...we readers have absolutely no power in the decision-making as to which characters are being used and which aren't. Because Marvel isn't paying any of us to give input. So...By all means vote with your wallet as that is the only true influence we do have (nobody takes Twatter tirades seriously...absolutely nobody). And continue to recognise the efforts that are actually being made, even if some of us think it could better.
I don't have an issue with certain fans decrying the poor and ill-use of their favourite characters...every character at some point in the entire history of comics has undergone that, some more than once, in different eras. What I find egregious is calling them out for being racist which is a damning accusation on all counts yet still you support and buy their books, eventhough evidence would clearly suggest otherwise.
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736974]lmao, you're not the only one who thinks that way, I have a friend who doesn't really like the fact that Ororo is always wearing her evening gown, because it's very glamorous..[/QUOTE]
I like both and hopes she goes back and forth - one for battle and the other for diplomacy.
OAN: can we PLEASE stop the back and forth....make an arguments thread go to rumbles I don't care but all of this back and forth and the negative energy brings the thread down. Can't we just appreciate a character in their appreciation thread?
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736916]Ororo's powers have always been reduced compared to Jean, which ends up being very annoying, and giving the impression that she is weak compared to Jean. (That's if you're not looking to know the true powers of Ororo)
And frankly, I respect your opinion, but I don't see two as equal, Storm is a Goddess, she can and should have done above the planetarium, but as usual writers are too lazy to write it.
I'm talking about the first day I saw you here on this forum, when you came to defend Jean, but then this was all just an act so make a difference about the ability of the Storm's powers. power on a planetary level, something like that), then tried to set a trap, at what cost? Ororo already has many trolls in its fambase, who claim to be a fan but end up making fun of her, some even think she shouldn't be omega, Goddess (By the way, I'm not talking about anyone here, it's an experience I had) I'm from one place that always has to prove Storm's skills.
Well, I already answered about that, maybe I made a bad impression of you, from the first day I saw you in this forum, because I also saw some of your very hypocritical attitudes, I mentioned your name, because I'm not one to send hints, and to you know that I'm talking about you.. Eita[/QUOTE]
stormy you hitting this out the park!!! beautiful response.
a mutant woman is not EQUAL to a mutant goddess no matter how much you try and spin it.
also, people can be disagreeable and not make things personal. its good we storm fans understand the difference.
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[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5736965]At least she is back with her old costume. THANK GOD! I can't stand the new one...
And another day, another argument. I do blame this one on butterflyks and Mercury once more. Why would you even raise the fact that Jean is racist... from decades ago like seriously... don't you guys have anything else to do but to badmouth a character. And Mercury once more coming into a Storm Appreciation thread and dropping a bomb and starting yet another argument. Didn't you realize that no matter what you say if you are in a Storm appreciation thread the appreciation will go for Storm and not for Jean.... like seriously? You guys keep going over the same recycled sh*t like the X-Office and their recycled stories.
We need more positivity here, no need for all that negativity regardless if it is for Storm or any other hero like Jean.[/QUOTE]
by the goddess. if you're going to cast "blame" at least know how this discussion started. I was celebrating shuri and ororo being true sisters after the annihilation issue dropped and someone alluded to that not being the case and it being Jean. i responded by saying a sister wouldn't harbor such thoughts as Jean did.
whether you like it or not or wish to say it happened long ago are all irrelevant.
Jean saw ororo as a slave woman and for that its why I dont see them as sisters in the manner some do. at the end of the day the events are canon, Jean never apologized or explained why she had such thoughts and delineating this in context on why I don't qualify them as sisters it isn't bashing a character; its just stating facts.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5737007]Well...not calling the X-Office (which has a history of putting Storm first and using other minority characters foremost for decades under Claremont and others) racist, would be a good start.
Recognising that other characters of colour such as Tempo, Synch, Kwannon, Manifold, Sunfire who've been given their moments to grow and shine...as Storm with a major upgrade in both power and status...even if she's not driving all the stories in which she appears, front and centre...would seem to indicate that they're not in fact racist.
Most times, decisions to put certain characters front and centre are based on story/writer preference or editorial mandate as with Wolverine, which is their creative right, and which doesn't make them racist for not preferring a minority character.
Right now...we readers have absolutely no power in the decision-making as to which characters are being used and which aren't. Because Marvel isn't paying any of us to give input. So...By all means vote with your wallet as that is the only true influence we do have (nobody takes Twatter tirades seriously...absolutely nobody). And continue to recognise the efforts that are actually being made, even if some of us think it could better.
I don't have an issue with certain fans decrying the poor and ill-use of their favourite characters...every character at some point in the entire history of comics has undergone that, some more than once, in different eras. What I find egregious is calling them out for being racist which is a damning accusation on all counts yet still you support and buy their books, eventhough evidence would clearly suggest otherwise.[/QUOTE]
So you're in denial that there's any issue of race or racism with X-books or x-offices and think that fans of color should be grateful because by your estimation black and brown characters have been treated fantastically. also fans of color need to keeping pouring money into books that don't represent them because maybe editorial will finally take notice. You're a moron...
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5736576]Thanks appreciate it.
How it ended up.
[IMG]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b3a2d9ef-486c-4506-b899-dea303e66635/der7uqm-9e1d968f-6e01-4801-9e48-d109cf47d440.jpg/v1/fill/w_1063,h_752,q_70,strp/thedance_by_jwatson_der7uqm-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9OTA2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYjNhMmQ5ZWYtNDg2Yy00NTA2LWI4OTktZGVhMzAzZTY2NjM1XC9kZXI3dXFtLTllMWQ5NjhmLTZlMDEtNDgwMS05ZTQ4LWQxMDljZjQ3ZDQ0MC5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19._V3hozcJNp0v8k6WqEsrGk9yp_21pLSanOEc7_FoH78[/IMG][/QUOTE]
a royal dance I love it!!!
[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5736617]The x-offices have always been and continue to be deeply racist. Storm is just a token. Ewing was fine on Ultimates but wrote Monica like a moron with no interest in understanding her powers. I have zero faith Storm will do anything. They turned Monet into her penance form because of course, Bishop does nothing and neither does any other character of color. I'm over it.[/QUOTE]
I think a case can be made here especially regarding ororo being a token for many years. I've said it before and will say it again diversity is very important and though the xmen have taken some positive steps the fact that many of the stories center around the white characters demonstrate we still have a very long way to go.
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I've had it with white fans trying to shutdown any discussions of race or racism as they pertain to Storm and Jean because it makes them uncomfortable. The pearl clutching is completely over the top.
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[QUOTE=Mercury;5736724]I've never said nor implied that I am "Storm's best fan." What a ludicrous thing to claim I am suggesting or to for anyone to even consider saying about oneself, lol. However, she is one of my favorite characters, and I have both praised and defended her on these boards, contrary to the claims of [I]some[/I]. It truly is a shame that I cannot participate in this thread as often as I would like due to this compulsive and rather obsessive need of a very few to drag my favorite character through the mud with claims based on biases, contortions, and one-sided vendettas.
EDIT: Also, I was somewhat shocked and saddened by the fact that a few people on Twitter seem to know about a particular poster on here who is prone to not only bashing Jean and her fans but also other characters and their fans. They find said poster "strange." Unfortunately, I cannot say that I disagree...
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iPX-hX0AAnVgG?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQV--XIAAgV73?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_iQYYAWEAUPUvE?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Until I see Storm fans going in to Jean's appreciation thread to hijack it cause someone in there said something about Storm that we don't like, this entire post is rendered null and void. Please, have some class.
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[QUOTE=Baby_Hater666;5737045]I've had it with white fans trying to shutdown any discussions of race or racism as they pertain to Storm and Jean because it makes them uncomfortable. The pearl clutching is completely over the top.[/QUOTE]
I won't presume to know a posters race because if I'm being frank I've had similar arguments with people who I knew were black. that said, we wouldn't be fully appreciating storm as a character if we didn't acknowledge the various factors that have impacted the character, including the good and the bad and everything in-between.
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[QUOTE=Rosa Snarks;5737051]Until I see Storm fans going in to Jean's appreciation thread to hijack it cause someone in there said something about Storm that we don't like, this entire post is rendered null and void. Please, have some class.[/QUOTE]
why are you always staying facts so beautifully?!?
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[QUOTE=Stormy;5736974]lmao, you're not the only one who thinks that way, I have a friend who doesn't really like the fact that Ororo is always wearing her evening gown, because it's very glamorous..[/QUOTE]
Trust me I am so over this costume... it is too much and so unfit for battle...
[QUOTE=twisted sun;5737018]I like both and hopes she goes back and forth - one for battle and the other for diplomacy.
OAN: can we PLEASE stop the back and forth....make an arguments thread go to rumbles I don't care but all of this back and forth and the negative energy brings the thread down. Can't we just appreciate a character in their appreciation thread?[/QUOTE]
Glad to see one more person that agrees with me. We don't need negativity here. Is this an appreciation thread or what?
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5737030]by the goddess. if you're going to cast "blame" at least know how this discussion started. I was celebrating shuri and ororo being true sisters after the annihilation issue dropped and someone alluded to that not being the case and it being Jean. i responded by saying a sister wouldn't harbor such thoughts as Jean did.
whether you like it or not or wish to say it happened long ago are all irrelevant.
Jean saw ororo as a slave woman and for that its why I dont see them as sisters in the manner some do. at the end of the day the events are canon, Jean never apologized or explained why she had such thoughts and delineating this in context on why I don't qualify them as sisters it isn't bashing a character; its just stating facts.[/QUOTE]
It is [B]irrelevant[/B]. You can't bring something that happens decades ago into an appreciation thread and claiming that this character has harboured dark thoughts for Storm, considering that [B]the story clearly states[/B] that she didn't remember her friends and clearly states that she was under someone's control. Clearly, you don't know how [B]mind control[/B] works. I rarely enter into arguments with you but when you are [B]WRONG[/B], you are [B][U]WRONG[/U][/B].
You can't twist facts and bring stuff like that in an appreciation thread and expect no one from the Jean thread to not respond, especially Mercury. Therefore, creating several pages of unwanted drama and argument instead of concentrating on Storm's appreciation.
And no, I do not care [B]who started it[/B]. I care who [B]stirs it up[/B]. And you are [B]stirring it up[/B] and that is [B]not okay[/B].
Answer me directly, WHY BRING SOMETHING LIKE THAT in this thread on top of that calling another fan beloved character? There are tons of other characters who have been racists in the comics and you had to put it on, Jean? Why? Do you hate her? Do you dislike her? Do you think that Storm is more important than her? And no don't twist my words. You are fully aware of what I am saying.
Each character in the Marvel Universe is important and each character has its fanbase, especially a character like Jean Grey. If you wanted to point fingers you could have literally picked any other character but no you picked Jean, yet again. I don't know what your personal problem is with Jean and trust me, I am not a fan of Jean either but when you stir up one fanbase for another it is not okay.
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[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5737069]Trust me I am so over this costume... it is too much and so unfit for battle...
Glad to see one more person that agrees with me. We don't need negativity here. Is this an appreciation thread or what?
It is [B]irrelevant[/B]. You can't bring something that happens decades ago into an appreciation thread and claiming that this character has harboured dark thoughts for Storm, considering that [B]the story clearly states[/B] that she didn't remember her friends and clearly states that she was under someone's control. Clearly, you don't know how [B]mind control[/B] works. I rarely enter into arguments with you but when you are [B]WRONG[/B], you are [B][U]WRONG[/U][/B].
You can't twist facts and bring stuff like that in an appreciation thread and expect no one from the Jean thread to not respond, especially Mercury. Therefore, creating several pages of unwanted drama and argument instead of concentrating on Storm's appreciation.
And no, I do not care [B]who started it[/B]. I care who [B]stirs it up[/B]. And you are [B]stirring it up[/B] and that is [B]not okay[/B].
Answer me directly, WHY BRING SOMETHING LIKE THAT in this thread on top of that calling another fan beloved character? There are tons of other characters who have been racists in the comics and you had to put it on, Jean? Why? Do you hate her? Do you dislike her? Do you think that Storm is more important than her? And no don't twist my words. You are fully aware of what I am saying.
Each character in the Marvel Universe is important and each character has its fanbase, especially a character like Jean Grey. If you wanted to point fingers you could have literally picked any other character but no you picked Jean, yet again. I don't know what your personal problem is with Jean and trust me, I am not a fan of Jean either but when you stir up one fanbase for another it is not okay.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52c9d908e4b0e87887310693/1558536724622-QJZAHZV1PGCIYELFWKZK/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kBjBI-1SaLI6ZqT5T51nIbwUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2drnSsc5OHLZUL6WhVZ_pjDmmaC0Ezt7ceFyCRlBGqXSRMW9u6oXQZQicHHG1WEE6fg/UncannyXMen_129_03.jpg?format=1000w[/img]
Mastermind says these are Jean's innermost desires and needs. If we are to conclude that it wasn't directed at ororo that is a bigger problem because within her is a desire to see black people as slaves. SO its not twisting facts. Its calling it what it is without trying to justify the unjustifiable. Also Mastermind doesn't control minds, he creates illusions so how about before you try to clue me in on the mechanics of fictional powers perhaps know what you're talking about first, OK.
You give me much more power than I have in this forum. I can't control what posters say or do. So if I post something that upsets someone so much so that admittedly confessed to coming into Storms thread to troll and bait the users here that is not my problem and a reflection on that user(s). Clearly you don't understand how individuality or free will works.
Nor do I care about you saying what is not okay. Works both ways. See how that works?
Beloved clearly you must be living in an alternate reality to think I have to respond to you directly about anything. I dont owe you or anyone else for that matter a reason for my thoughts. Go read up on individuality and free will when you can.
You knowing what my issues are or not is irrelevant don't you worry your pretty little head over it. At your request I do not wish to further stir up discussions that distracts from what matters most here and its not Jean. However, just know I'm going to speak my mind and respectfully so. I'm not going to attack people regardless of them not doing the same and i won't filter my thoughts around canonical events due to fanbases' insecurities. They can see a therapist for that it has nothing to do with me.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5737007]Well...not calling the X-Office (which has a history of putting Storm first and using other minority characters foremost for decades under Claremont and others) racist, would be a good start.
Recognising that other characters of colour such as Tempo, Synch, Kwannon, Manifold, Sunfire who've been given their moments to grow and shine...as Storm with a major upgrade in both power and status...even if she's not driving all the stories in which she appears, front and centre...would seem to indicate that they're not in fact racist.
Most times, decisions to put certain characters front and centre are based on story/writer preference or editorial mandate as with Wolverine, which is their creative right, and which doesn't make them racist for not preferring a minority character.
Right now...we readers have absolutely no power in the decision-making as to which characters are being used and which aren't. Because Marvel isn't paying any of us to give input. So...By all means vote with your wallet as that is the only true influence we do have (nobody takes Twatter tirades seriously...absolutely nobody). And continue to recognise the efforts that are actually being made, even if some of us think it could better.
I don't have an issue with certain fans decrying the poor and ill-use of their favourite characters...every character at some point in the entire history of comics has undergone that, some more than once, in different eras. What I find egregious is calling them out for being racist which is a damning accusation on all counts yet still you support and buy their books, eventhough evidence would clearly suggest otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Look, I partially agree with what you said, although I find Marvel Comics problematic (especially the movies where it's more resonant), but they treat non-white characters as a second choice, support characters than most white characters, this is extremely horrible.
If I don't consume elements where there's some character, non-white cast highlighted, that will lower their rating, but for example give Cable another book, where Storm might as well be in her place, why put him? Even though I like Wolverine, I think it's highly overrated that he wins a lot of titles (Yes, I know he's popular and sells), and now they've put his name on what seems to be Krakoa's newest saga.
It's rare to see them giving opportunity to black characters among others to be the highlight of any title, but expect that much of the X-Office office will be white men.
Yeah, every character goes through a rough patch, but what I really feel about Marvel is that they use these black characters, to profit from what they really appreciate, rather than like, ****, why don't they let Coates write one. book about Storm? Why do they just immerse themselves in the Gray-Summers family, Magneto, instead of also exploring Storm's origins? It's these little things that happen that, like it or not, end up discouraging, in addition to the fact that there are some X-office bosses who don't like Ororo very much.
[QUOTE=twisted sun;5737018]I like both and hopes she goes back and forth - one for battle and the other for diplomacy.
OAN: can we PLEASE stop the back and forth....make an arguments thread go to rumbles I don't care but all of this back and forth and the negative energy brings the thread down. Can't we just appreciate a character in their appreciation thread?[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right, I think this Gala costume is very beautiful, for political occasions, business, and in combat situations she should wear her old uniform, or maybe a new one, but it's not like she cares too much about it..
[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5737069]Trust me I am so over this costume... it is too much and so unfit for battle.[/QUOTE]
I would love if they adapted this costume here, by Black Panther (1998), I think it's beautiful!
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[QUOTE=Rosa Snarks;5737051]Until I see Storm fans going in to Jean's appreciation thread to hijack it cause someone in there said something about Storm that we don't like, this entire post is rendered null and void. Please, have some class.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, neither I nor anyone else on this forum has to answer to you. Secondly, this is neither your nor anyone else's personal thread. Thirdly, and most importantly, I long ago apologized for coming in here the first time to defend Jean regarding insipid feats and I didn't post again until yesterday after I was alerted that these baseless claims of Jean being a racist were being bandied about again. This isn't just about accusing a fictional character of being racist. This is about implying that those fans and supporters of this character are either okay with her being a racist or racist themselves. That is not okay. And I'm sorry, but I won't tolerate it.
Maybe you should ask your friend to stop bringing up Jean in a thread dedicated to Storm, especially if the intent is to shame users who have a positive view or opinion about the character and the established decades-long relationship she has with the character that is the topic of this discussion.
[QUOTE=The92Ghost;5737069]It is [B]irrelevant[/B]. You can't bring something that happens decades ago into an appreciation thread and claiming that this character has harboured dark thoughts for Storm, considering that [B]the story clearly states[/B] that she didn't remember her friends and clearly states that she was under someone's control. Clearly, you don't know how [B]mind control[/B] works. I rarely enter into arguments with you but when you are [B]WRONG[/B], you are [B][U]WRONG[/U][/B].
You can't twist facts and bring stuff like that in an appreciation thread and expect no one from the Jean thread to not respond, especially Mercury. Therefore, creating several pages of unwanted drama and argument instead of concentrating on Storm's appreciation.
And no, I do not care [B]who started it[/B]. I care who [B]stirs it up[/B]. And you are [B]stirring it up[/B] and that is [B]not okay[/B].
Answer me directly, WHY BRING SOMETHING LIKE THAT in this thread on top of that calling another fan beloved character? There are tons of other characters who have been racists in the comics and you had to put it on, Jean? Why? Do you hate her? Do you dislike her? Do you think that Storm is more important than her? And no don't twist my words. You are fully aware of what I am saying.
Each character in the Marvel Universe is important and each character has its fanbase, especially a character like Jean Grey. If you wanted to point fingers you could have literally picked any other character but no you picked Jean, yet again. I don't know what your personal problem is with Jean and trust me, I am not a fan of Jean either but when you stir up one fanbase for another it is not okay.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for being objective about this and for, at the very least, attempting to see things from my perspective. I appreciate it more than I can properly express at the moment.
I think I said everything I had to say about these baseless and insidious claims:
[QUOTE=Mercury;5734834]Claremont never specifies which of Jean's "innermost forbidden needs and desires" Mastermind is manipulating nor with which he is presenting her. What Claremont does make clear, however, is that Mastermind, with the help of Emma Frost, is able to not only control what Jean [I][U]sees[/U][/I] but also what she [I][U]thinks[/U][/I], [I][U]feels[/U][/I], and [I][U]believes[/U][/I]. As Scott notes in the panel below, "This 'ancestor' – Lady Jean Grey, wife of Sir Jason Wyngarde – [u][B][I]knows nothing[/I][/B][/u] of the X-Men. Her allegiance is to the Hellfire Club. If they ask her to kill us… I've a nasty feeling she'll do it without a second thought." The villain of the piece making the heroin completely forget who she is, who her friends and family are, and even where and [i]when[/i] she is from seems like a monumental aspect of this story to overlook.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6LH192WUAUFRO0?format=jpg&name=large[/img]
Jean "knows nothing" of people she has known for years, some for decades, and that she literally grew up with, yet is somehow acting totally on her "innermost forbidden needs and desires?" If the implication is that she has always harbored racist feelings, why stop there? Based on the setup, one can suppose that she must have always had a need and desire to fall in love and be intimate with Mastermind, forget not just her close friends and romantic partner, but her entire life, including her family, identity, and the era into which she was born. One can also assume that she always had a need and desire to live in the antebellum 18th century as a black cape-, bodice-, and panty-wearing woman.
This begs the question, though: If Mastermind was simply giving Jean her "innermost forbidden needs and desires" and not influencing and even controlling those needs and desires, why would he require the use of such illusions and severe mind control? After all, when Jean finally breaks from his hold on her, he ponders, "She must have broken my [b][I][U]control[/U][/I][/b], but how?"
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6LIbzgXsAgiDUX?format=jpg&name=900x900[/img]
It is clear that what Mastermind was tapping into and giving Jean was a manufactured and contaminated sense of love, romance, danger, and power based on her "innermost forbidden needs and desires" for [I][U]those things[/U][/I], i.e., love, romance, danger, and power, [I][U]not[/U][/I] the illusions he cloaked them in nor the mind control he used to force those illusions, amongst other things (shudder at the thought) [i]inside[/i] of her. I hardly doubt that Claremont intended to suggest that, in addition to "need[ing]" and "desir[ing]" to be a racist and own a slave, Jean also "need[ed]" and "desire[ed]" to forget her entire identity and loved ones, live in the antebellum period, frolic around in a bodice and panties, and enslave and harm all of her friends. After all, Claremont wrote "needs and desires," not "true thoughts and feelings."
Of course, people who like to pretend to be aghast at this scene to claim that Jean is a racist character do not seem to mind the author who penned this tale. In fact, they even lavish praise on him and sometimes proudly promote his name like a brand in their signatures. I find this puzzling, especially if the intent is to call out racism and not really just to insult a character they seem to hate, along with trying to sully and shame said character's fans. (After all, these characters are fictional and their thoughts, feelings, and intentions are dictated by the writers...) The fact that they so easily "sweep" the psychic and strongly implied physical rape "under the rug" as if it were just an insignificant little detail certainly does not belie their intentions.
The real unspoken crime and tragedy of the Dark Phoenix Saga and how some choose to view it for their own nefarious reasons is not the racism that these people maliciously and unfoundedly claim Jean "need[ed] and desire[d]," but the willingness to overlook the abuse a character was subjected to as if one should call it by any other name. A woman's psyche was invaded only to be contorted, contaminated, and, ultimately, controlled. If that weren't bad enough, the woman was also sexualized and placed in sexually compromising positions, to say the least. The redemptive irony here is that the one character that intuited and truly got what had transpired just so happens to be the character that should have been the most incensed and offended; that is, of course, if this claim of Jean being a racist contained a modicum of logic, critical thinking, or veracity.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-DdFF5WQAIOKCy?format=png&name=900x900[/img][/quote]
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I will also state this, which I have been reticent to share: As a person of color and a survivor of myriad abuses, that some people in this thread think it is okay to minimize or altogether sweep aside the fact that Jean's clone was not only mind controlled but placed in sexually provocative attire, groped and kissed, quite literally, against her will, and forced to perform other vile acts with others, against herself, and against those people whom she considered the closest and dearest to her is something that disturbs me on a level I cannot even begin to articulate.
To add insult to injury, the implication that she "need[ed]" and "desire[d]" all that was perpetrated against her and all that she was mind-controlled into doing truly sickens me. Some of what is being claimed in this thread is akin to claiming that a person who was drugged and forced to perform vile acts, sexual or otherwise, somehow needed and desired to do what they did. I know what being on the receiving end of such claims feels like, so I find it particularly triggering to read others, even a fictional character, being accused of the same, especially when it is clear that this was not the author's intent.
What reveals the nefarious intent behind this baseless claim is that no blame is attributed to the writer who dreamt up the scenario of depicting a main character and the first X-Man of color as a slave. And not a moment's notice is given to another character, Emma Frost, who was not being mind-controlled or abused when several issues after Jean's clone killed herself, she decided to hijack and use Ororo's body to be sexually intimate with another character (Shaw). Where's the outrage about that? The logical fallacies and double standards being applied here are truly staggering.
After all that has been written, and what it has made me recall about my own life, I think I am truly done responding to provocations in this thread. I only ask, and with great respect, that all of you consider some of the things you write and how it may affect other posters who have personally experienced racism, discrimination, homophobia, and physical and sexual abuse.
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anyway....
storm goodness:
[img]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1570/4597/products/169235386_738064707070240_2832787551840279997_n_800x.jpg?v=1617556429[/img]
[img]https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/49a7c6da-5009-4f6d-b34f-122df07f6fec/de6c971-79c51f95-4a2e-407a-a1d2-9badf6741c61.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_1235,q_75,strp/storm_by_douglas_bicalho_de6c971-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTIzNSIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzQ5YTdjNmRhLTUwMDktNGY2ZC1iMzRmLTEyMmRmMDdmNmZlY1wvZGU2Yzk3MS03OWM1MWY5NS00YTJlLTQwN2EtYTFkMi05YmFkZjY3NDFjNjEuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEwMjQifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.tiNQ0XTHxLVnCPPkn-3qY7Dm6G6Aghb-Qw3NGPlMSoI[/img]
[img]http://pm1.narvii.com/7066/c019ac3502f5f8509670a77c3845390fee40e5a7r1-843-810v2_uhq.jpg[/img]