What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[QUOTE=Havok83;5496163]Data pages....wow, guess thats what I get for skipping alot of them[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=cranger;5496172]Well, nothing on the data page actually happened so it was worth skipping.[/QUOTE]

The data pages should be used sparingly.

[QUOTE=ZephyrSurf;5496796]X of Sword woulda been dope if the Tournament wasn't a farce

And most of the Arraki people weren't wall paper hyped to the moon and back.[/QUOTE]

I was so glad I skipped it when I saw that one "battle" was a dance or a dinner or something. Yeesh.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496876]Well, I don't recall if there was confirmation about other universes being affected, although there wouldn't necessarily be a reason that Wanda couldn't have reached beyond Earth-616.

I'm not trying to demonize Wanda, hopefully you can see that from my previous posts. There was a time when I was ardently against her character over this very thing, but I realized that how I felt when someone would disparage Scott over something they didn't care about or know about must be how Wanda's fans feel getting this story thrown in their face. It's something that was done with/to her character that Marvel can retcon away, but there was still damage done. Yet another thing that, if any thought to the consequences had been given, never would've been done.[/QUOTE]

It's a throw away line when they are talking about it on future timelines. For me is hard to believe that it affect other multiverses, specially when Wanda really only made for a very specific situation. If she was that powerful doctor strange and all mutants on earth would be powerless. so it is laughable that people think multiverses could be affected.

Well people are always finding ways of demonizing Wanda. for example ultimate universe the mutants weren't affected.
The last thing Wanda needs is people amping the damage to freaking paralel universes. That is pure nosense

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496887]I was so glad I skipped it when I saw that one "battle" was a dance or a dinner or something. Yeesh.[/QUOTE]

You missing out on some quality storm story time. She was a goddess in that issue.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496064]We sall all these alternte universes on Secret wars(AOA is more of alternatie timeline) and mutants all had powers on them.
So nothing was ever proved[/QUOTE]

We saw many alternate timelines with decimated mutants. After Hope was born we saw two futures which branched out into more. Also AoA was affected by their own Wanda after Hope cracked open the damn

AoA Jean was depowered by AoA Wanda

At almost fifty pages this is exhausting, but I'm thankful for the insight. My X of Swords hardcover is apparently five stops away right now. I bought up to Dawn of X 8 but haven't been reading the titles since they debuted, way too busy to immerse myself. So it's interesting hearing the opinions on what I'm in for now that I'm ready to start reading again.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496930]It's a throw away line when they are talking about it on future timelines. For me is hard to believe that it affect other multiverses, specially when Wanda really only made for a very specific situation. If she was that powerful doctor strange and all mutants on earth would be powerless. so it is laughable that people think multiverses could be affected.

Well people are always finding ways of demonizing Wanda. for example ultimate universe the mutants weren't affected.
The last thing Wanda needs is people amping the damage to freaking paralel universes. That is pure nosense[/QUOTE]

That's a good point, I forgot that Ultimate X-Men was on it's way up during all of this. Guess writers gotta try and raise the stakes any way they can.

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496951]We saw many alternate timelines with decimated mutants. After Hope was born we saw two futures which branched out into more. Also AoA was affected by their own Wanda after Hope cracked open the damn

AoA Jean was depowered by AoA Wanda[/QUOTE]

Alternate timelines arent alternate universe, they are same earth bt with infinite possibilities. Seems like it was only jean and they thought she was human.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5496946]You missing out on some quality storm story time. She was a goddess in that issue.[/QUOTE]

Well, I do like Storm, but I don't see how that could work for me. Maybe I'll read it if I can get the book on sale or something – but I don't expect to have my mind blown or overall opinion changed about the book.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496961]That's a good point, I forgot that Ultimate X-Men was on it's way up during all of this. Guess writers gotta try and raise the stakes any way they can.[/QUOTE]

Ultimate Universe didn't have mutants with an xgene like 616 they were goverment experiments. Just like how ghost boxes showed mutants but their xgene was on a different locus on the chromosome.

Wandas spell affected billions of billions of souls as per Dr Strange and Beasts travels around the multiverse

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496951]We saw many alternate timelines with decimated mutants. After Hope was born we saw two futures which branched out into more. Also AoA was affected by their own Wanda after Hope cracked open the damn

AoA Jean was depowered by AoA Wanda[/QUOTE]

Can't it be safely assumed that after the events of AvX that those timelines either no longer exist or at least have a rejuvenated mutant population?

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496973]Ultimate Universe didn't have mutants with an xgene like 616 they were goverment experiments. Just like how ghost boxes showed mutants but their xgene was on a different locus on the chromosome.

Wandas spell affected billions of billions of souls as per Dr Strange and Beasts travels around the multiverse[/QUOTE]

And where is that page?

Ultiate doesn't has the x-gene? sure about that? Because Mothervine repowered mutants on earth 616, so I guess ultimate have the x-gene too

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496966]Alternate timelines arent alternate universe, they are same earth bt with infinite possibilities. Seems like it was only jean and they thought she was human.[/QUOTE]

Alternate timelines are alternate universes they branch out to become them. Reed Richards has a blackboard chart of this

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496978]Can't it be safely assumed that after the events of AvX that those timelines either no longer exist or at least have a rejuvenated mutant population?[/QUOTE]

No. It is safe to assume that though after Secret Wars that they dont

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496973]Ultimate Universe didn't have mutants with an xgene like 616 they were goverment experiments. Just like how ghost boxes showed mutants but their xgene was on a different locus on the chromosome.

Wandas spell affected billions of billions of souls as per Dr Strange and Beasts travels around the multiverse[/QUOTE]

That's right, the whole Captain America thing... Huh. I'm learning and relearning all sorts of things.

Was that book [I] Endangered Species[/I]? I think I have that one.

Edit: wait, their [I]souls[/I]? How would that effect their mutations?

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496981]Alternate timelines are alternate universes they branch out to become them. Reed Richards has a blackboard chart of this[/QUOTE]
No, they aren't. Same universe.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496980]And where is that page?

Ultiate doesn't has the x-gene? sure about that? Because Mothervine repowered mutants on earth 616, so I guess ultimate have the x-gene too[/QUOTE]

Not on the same locus as 616

Also I posted the page here

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5495669]Wolverine says Wanda did more harm in the Day After M then Cassandra Nova. I presume because because she deleted the xgene from the human genome

As for whether it was multiverse there's this as well[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Havok83;5496983]No. It is safe to assume that though after Secret Wars that they dont[/QUOTE]

How could Secret Wars have affected those timelines in a way that undoing Wanda's spell wouldn't?

And actually, what role, if any, will Secret Wars play in Hickman's era? The X-Men were involved, it's be nice to see some connections.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496990]No, they aren't. Same universe.[/QUOTE]

What if tales are alternate futures which are alternate universes. They all are happening at the same time. As future is relevant to us the reader

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496992]Not on the same locus as 616

Also I posted the page here[/QUOTE]

The page I saw doesn't proof anything.

Cassandra killed 16 millions and wanda herself was ready to fix it. Comic writers really love to exagerate

they still have the X-gene so if they ween't depowered, Wanda wasnt dpowering mutants on multiverse

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496985]That's right, the whole Captain America thing... Huh. I'm learning and relearning all sorts of things.

Was that book [I] Endangered Species[/I]? I think I have that one.

Edit: wait, their [I]souls[/I]? How would that effect their mutations?[/QUOTE]

Yep it was in endangered species

[QUOTE=Rang10;5496999]The page I saw doesn't proof anything.

Cassandra killed 16 millions and wanda herself was ready to fix it. Comic writers really love to exagerate[/QUOTE]

The page shows the effect of Wandas spell, read Endangered Species Pope Beast, Sorcerer Supreme beast, Hulk Beast, Barbie Beast all tried to find away to undo Wandas spell

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5496997]What if tales are alternate futures which are alternate universes. They all are happening at the same time.[/QUOTE]

That is not it works, every alternate timeline is a possibility of 616. they are within this universe, not another one

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496995]How could Secret Wars have affected those timelines in a way that undoing Wanda's spell wouldn't?

And actually, what role, if any, will Secret Wars play in Hickman's era? The X-Men were involved, it's be nice to see some connections.[/QUOTE]

All timelines were destroyed with SW; or at least that was the original intent in the aftermath of that story

[QUOTE=Rang10;5497007]That is not it works, every alternate timeline is a possibility of 616. they are within this universe, not another one[/QUOTE]

Every possibility is an alternate future which in itself is an alternate universe. They are within their own universes that most of the time end with the universes destruction as most What it's end badly. These what it's have universe numbers

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5497002]Yep it was in endangered species[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I'll have to reread that one.

[QUOTE=Havok83;5497008]All timelines were destroyed with SW; or at least that was the original intent in the aftermath of that story[/QUOTE]

Oh, okay, I see what you mean. I meant that I thought reversing Wanda's spell should've [I]averted[/I] those timelines, right? Hopefully the question of timelines gets addressed sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5497026]Oh, okay, I see what you mean. I meant that I thought reversing Wanda's spell should've [I]averted[/I] those timelines, right? Hopefully the question of timelines gets addressed sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE]

It would have. But all they did in AvX is undo the block on the human genome they didn't repower any depowered characters. Then the t cloud was supposedly making mutants infertile according to Storm but think that was dropped

Here's another one

[QUOTE=Rang10;5497007]That is not it works, every alternate timeline is a possibility of 616. they are within this universe, not another one[/QUOTE]

Alternate timeline and alternate universe are interchangeable in Marvel.

What you are describing is what is called a multiverse, a bunch of universes tied together for example to the 616. Then you get mega- and omni-verses.

It was cool when the Beyonder was multiverse who entered the 616's multiverse.

Here's Shadow King saying the same thing. Also several cosmic marvel stories blamed HoM for the damage to reality Annihilation, the Fault and finally everyone got blame in Age of Ultron

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5496972]Well, I do like Storm, but I don't see how that could work for me. Maybe I'll read it if I can get the book on sale or something – but I don't expect to have my mind blown or overall opinion changed about the book.[/QUOTE]

Well, the issue where they dance is the night before the tournament. It is just saturnyne playing with them and allowing the two opposing sides to get to know each other. Its not a must read issue or anything but it does lead up to the fight with storm vs death which is epic. You would have to read it to see if it is worth it or not but i thought it showcased how bad ass storm is even when she is not fighting as well as showing other things like magik, cable, and gorgon scoping out how the other side operates. Overall, x of swords has a lot of layers to it and i think a lot of people miss out on the details because they just wanted to see the fights. Honestly, it is an entire other conversation entirely but yeah man i love that event. Its the little things that do it for me and the last few issues you do get the big fights that make the journey worth it.

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5497063]Here's Shadow King saying the same thing. Also several cosmic marvel stories blamed HoM for the damage to reality Annihilation, the Fault and finally everyone got blame in Age of Ultron[/QUOTE]

Shadow king isnt even a multiversal being, realities can be all alternate timelines from 616 earth.

Secret wars disproves that Wanda "spell" was multiversal, she didn't gave powers back to mutants but made it possible new mutants culd be born.

Given the choice between Scarlet Witch being powerful enough to causally affect the multiverse or Beast, Forge, and a few others looking at some evidence and coming to the wrong conclusion, I fin it a lot easier to believe Beast and friends were wrong.

[QUOTE=Alan2099;5497380]Given the choice between Scarlet Witch being powerful enough to causally affect the multiverse or Beast, Forge, and a few others looking at some evidence and coming to the wrong conclusion, I fin it a lot easier to believe Beast and friends were wrong.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't Wanda being influenced/amplified by some external cosmic force or something? I swear there was something along those lines to retcon away the mistake Marvel barreled their way into. If so, it's possible she was able to effect other universes.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5497154]Well, the issue where they dance is the night before the tournament. It is just saturnyne playing with them and allowing the two opposing sides to get to know each other. Its not a must read issue or anything but it does lead up to the fight with storm vs death which is epic. You would have to read it to see if it is worth it or not but i thought it showcased how bad ass storm is even when she is not fighting as well as showing other things like magik, cable, and gorgon scoping out how the other side operates. Overall, x of swords has a lot of layers to it and i think a lot of people miss out on the details because they just wanted to see the fights. Honestly, it is an entire other conversation entirely but yeah man i love that event. Its the little things that do it for me and the last few issues you do get the big fights that make the journey worth it.[/QUOTE]

I guess I just think that the premise and hype made a promise, and while I didn't get the event what I saw of it left me feeling that it probably failed to deliver. I'll give it a read, so I can give y'all a more informed opinion.

I'm here for Hickman and because of Hickman and his PoXHoX, so naturally I'll stick around. But right now I'm also worried cause he is not writing X-Men after #21 and I'm wondering if his new book is a way of stepping out and leaving all of the other creators take over or just another Secret Avenger type that is definitely crucial to the overarching narrative of the Krakoan era.

I'm reading X-Men, S.W.O.R.D., Hellions, Marauders and X-Force monthly but none of it was on the level of HoXPoX... yet. Which is worrying but I have patience since those books were just miles ahead of the competition and you just can't print something like that once every few months.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5497275]Shadow king isnt even a multiversal being, realities can be all alternate timelines from 616 earth.

Secret wars disproves that Wanda "spell" was multiversal, she didn't gave powers back to mutants but made it possible new mutants culd be born.[/QUOTE]

Secret Wars disapproves nothing. That is well after the spell was broken in AvX. There are multiple ways to get powers back re celestial technology or the M'Kraan Crystal or something like the cosmic cube. There are also very specific reasons for universes not being depoweredre the xgene is on a different chromosome.

It actually says universe by the omniscient narrator on the panel I posted.

All timelines from 616 would make it multiversal. Single universe and multiple universes. As pointed out to you multiple times each of those divergent timelines have Universe names

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5497383]Wasn't Wanda being influenced/amplified by some external cosmic force or something? I swear there was something along those lines to retcon away the mistake Marvel barreled their way into. If so, it's possible she was able to effect other universes.[/QUOTE]

Yes the life force which is conveniently used as a defence for her by saying she was possessed. The life force is multiversal. This is why AoA Wandas warp was so short she didn't have the life force

Saying Secret Wars disproves anything is like saying Cassandra Nova didn't kill anyone because they're alive on Krakoa now. And even if it was before AvX, it wasn't a true look at multiple universes, it was a new world with bits and pieces of dead universes stitched together into something new with everyone aware of the status quo of there being other versions of themselves and how Doom and Strange were running everything as gods. Like in Inferno where the world ended not far from the borders of New York. And with Doom being a literal god, is it that surprising he created a new world where one of his greatest mistakes when he was mortal never happened?