What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

Folks, two people alone in a hot tub, drinking, making out, stroking each other, taking off bikini tops, do NOT stop at a kiss. The denial among you folks is crazy. Logan and Jean — doin’ it!

Comparing that situation to sunning yourself topless on the beach is off base. It’s two TOTALLY DIFFERENT activities, two totally different situations.

And Jean’s NOT a cheater. Cyclops clearly knows what’s going on, he’s living in it.

Hickman even drew you a map, literally, of their bedrooms. Logan is now part of the Summers clan and he’s sleeping with it’s matriarch, Jean.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528768]Folks, two people alone in a hot tub, drinking, making out, stroking each other, taking off bikini tops, do NOT stop at a kiss. The denial among you folks is crazy. Logan and Jean — doin’ it![/QUOTE]

My friend, there is one person struggling with you. I see it, I don't like it.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528770]My friend, there is one person struggling with you. I see it, I don't like it.[/QUOTE]
And I respect that. Thank you.

What are the odds that this whole thing is just another alternative life of Moira? Maybe she gets a Moira XI? And that’s the real 616?

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528779]And I respect that. Thank you.

What are the odds that this whole thing is just another alternative life of Moira? Maybe she gets a Moira XI? And that’s the real 616?[/QUOTE]

I've thought about that, it's one reason I haven't just dropped the books or raged very much. I don't think I'm the first person to think of this, I'm sure it came up during HoX/PoX, but it's a real possibility.

There's gonna be real rage afterwards I think, from those who want this era to continue for years and years to come.

So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each other’s heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just don’t want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528792]I've thought about that, it's one reason I haven't just dropped the books or raged very much. I don't think I'm the first person to think of this, I'm sure it came up during HoX/PoX, but it's a real possibility.

There's gonna be real rage afterwards I think, from those who want this era to continue for years and years to come.[/QUOTE]
As I’ve said many times, I am withholding a final judgement based on Hickman’s record, and some concepts he’s thrown out there, particularly with the Orchis-related plots.

I don’t hate HiXmen, yet, and some parts I have enjoyed. I think the run is definitely going much better than Morrison’s, which to me is bottom of the barrel. I don’t think Morrison knew or understood the characters at all. Hickman does understand the characters, I think, but he has this tendency to just turn them all into dei ex machina and worse, into flat-out MacGuffins. He just bulldozes through to get the story where he wants. Look at how Hickman did Namor and T’Challa. And, I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face, the HiXmen in general have not been boring. Well, maybe X of Swords was boring, but the other books and stories within the stories have not been boring.

I do think this could be leading into Moira XI, which would be the 616. I could see this all going there in some grand plan of Hickman’s.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528768]Folks, two people alone in a hot tub, drinking, making out, stroking each other, taking off bikini tops, do NOT stop at a kiss. The denial among you folks is crazy. Logan and Jean — doin’ it!

Comparing that situation to sunning yourself topless on the beach is off base. It’s two TOTALLY DIFFERENT activities, two totally different situations.

And Jean’s NOT a cheater. Cyclops clearly knows what’s going on, he’s living in it.

Hickman even drew you a map, literally, of their bedrooms. Logan is now part of the Summers clan and he’s sleeping with it’s matriarch, Jean.[/QUOTE]

I need proof.

People need to understand tha if writers doesn't make things clear on canon, readers have the right to not recognie it.

oh hickman drew a map? too bad X-force said screw that map. I want to see the house not a map

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528807]So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each other’s heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just don’t want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]
That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528792]I've thought about that, it's one reason I haven't just dropped the books or raged very much. I don't think I'm the first person to think of this, I'm sure it came up during HoX/PoX, but it's a real possibility.

There's gonna be real rage afterwards I think, from those who want this era to continue for years and years to come.[/QUOTE]

Hickman reset his run on Avengers, nobody remembers secret wars besides Doom and FF.

It's a hue real possibility, specially that the run has failed outiside of the Twitter echo-chamber

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528817]I need proof. [/QUOTE]
You need to get a clue.

The proof is all there.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528831]You need to get a clue.

The proof is all there.[/QUOTE]

Only if the clue is 10% of what a clue is. It's like I want proof and people offer me a crazy conspiracy theory that I have to imagine 90% of what isn't on page.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528822]Hickman reset his run on Avengers, nobody remembers secret wars besides Doom and FF.

It's a hue real possibility, specially that the run has failed outiside of the Twitter echo-chamber[/QUOTE]
I didn’t like Hickman’s Avengers or Secret Wars. The ending to me was crud. Hickman’s FF, before Secret Wars, was good, though. If Hickman were hitting in MLB, he’d be a massive slugger with that .500 average. That’s why I’m not throwing in the towel on HiXmen, well that and HiXmen IS entertaining.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528807]So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each other’s heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just don’t want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528820]That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?[/QUOTE]
The more I think about this, the more it [I]REALLY[/I] makes sense and kinda works. You just have to let go of the bourgie worldview a bit and see the X-Men as the god-like entities they are.

(Sorry — didn’t mean to quote myself, fat-fingered the edit button and started another post.)

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528844]The more I think about this, the more it [I]REALLY[/I] makes sense and kinda works. You just have to let go of the bourgie world view a bit and see the X-Men as the god-like entities they are.[/QUOTE]

That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528820]That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?[/QUOTE]

Ha! Thanks for the compliment! And yeah, that’s pretty much how i view it. The whole idea of krakoa is about mutants having a safe space to evolve without the fear of persecution so yeah i feel things like this are bound to happen in some form or fashion. I think some of it is left ambiguous for us to be able to make our own interpretations as well. I do strongly feel it is more than just a sexual fetish and it is just 3 adults having this bond that is strictly unique to their experience.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528847]That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad[/QUOTE]

It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528852]It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.[/QUOTE]

I need things to be written well, character being in character. Hickman has been lacking on these two fronts, his x-men is scattered that barely follow his own ideas. Lots of question that are no answered

I want to read x-men not Inhumans

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528816]As I’ve said many times, I am withholding a final judgement based on Hickman’s record, and some concepts he’s thrown out there, particularly with the Orchis-related plots.

I don’t hate HiXmen, yet, and some parts I have enjoyed. I think the run is definitely going much better than Morrison’s, which to me is bottom of the barrel. I don’t think Morrison knew or understood the characters at all. Hickman does understand the characters, I think, but he has this tendency to just turn them all into dei ex machina and worse, into flat-out MacGuffins. He just bulldozes through to get the story where he wants. Look at how Hickman did Namor and T’Challa. And, I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face, the HiXmen in general have not been boring. Well, maybe X of Swords was boring, but the other books and stories within the stories have not been boring.

I do think this could be leading into Moira XI, which would be the 616. I could see this all going there in some grand plan of Hickman’s.[/QUOTE]

It's funny, because I'm fully aware of and accepting of the flaws of Morrison's run. You could name one and I'd probably agree it's bad, but I still like New X-Men.

I don't know, I am of the strong belief that X-Men, being written by the guy himself, should have been the most interesting book and it hasn't been.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528847]That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528852]It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.[/QUOTE]

[B]Rang10[/B], the HiXmen could end up at least partially a tale of hubris. Krakoa the nation-state and society may not turn out so well. Way of X seems to hint at this.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528807]So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each other’s heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just don’t want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying, I've heard this argument, but I just don't think it's a good thing. These characters shouldn't be leaving their humanity behind, and there's nothing in their history to support the idea that they would go in this direction anyway. Besides, why use this method to explore that idea?

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528822]Hickman reset his run on Avengers, nobody remembers secret wars besides Doom and FF.

It's a hue real possibility, specially that the run has failed outiside of the Twitter echo-chamber[/QUOTE]

I hope so. We can keep some of the more interesting ideas and general approach to using characters, I suppose, but I have not liked this era as a whole so far.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528861]I see what you're saying, I've heard this argument, but I just don't think it's a good thing. These characters shouldn't be leaving their humanity behind, and there's nothing in their history to support the idea that they would go in this direction anyway. Besides, why use this method to explore that idea?[/QUOTE]

It is not abandoning their humanity though. It is further exploring it. When i say human standards i mean human judgments. This is far from their humanity.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528865]It is not abandoning their humanity though. It is further exploring it. When i say human standards i mean human judgments. This is far from their humanity.[/QUOTE]

But the change came from an outside force, not from a natural progression of their own thoughts or feelings. If not for Krakoa, this wouldn't be happening, therefore they are leaving that aspect of their humanity behind.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528866]But the change came from an outside force, not from a natural progression of their own thoughts or feelings. If not for Krakoa, this wouldn't be happening, therefore they are leaving that aspect of their humanity behind.[/QUOTE]

Why would it not happen outside of krakoa? I am not following this train of thought.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528847]That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528856]I need things to be written well, character being in character. Hickman has been lacking on these two fronts, his x-men is scattered that barely follow his own ideas. Lots of question that are no answered

I want to read x-men not Inhumans[/QUOTE]

Fully agree with you here.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528860][B]Ring10[/B], the HiXmen could end up at least partially a tale of hubris. Krakoa the nation-state and society may not turn out so well. Way of X seems to hint at this.[/QUOTE]

I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles have plenty of hubris. i just don't know why the rest of xmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528869]Why would it not happen outside of krakoa? I am not following this train of thought.[/QUOTE]

Krakoa, this era, is the justification for their relationship. It wouldn't have been done before, and the characters would be OOC if they had, that's what I mean. Never, not once, were the characters ever framed even just a little bit as interested in this sort of thing, rather everything in their history contradicts it.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles are lacking on hubris. i just don't know why the rest of cxmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]
You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?

It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.

The whole thing feels very supervillainy to me.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528878]You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?

It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.[/QUOTE]

I don't get why [I]everyone[/I] is onboard with everything Krakoa is, there's no dissenters? (Other than the big one from WoX)

They don't know about Moira, so what gives?

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528874]Krakoa, this era, is the justification for their relationship. It wouldn't have been done before, and the characters would be OOC if they had, that's what I mean. Never, not once, were the characters ever framed even just a little bit as interested in this sort of thing, rather everything in their history contradicts it.[/QUOTE]

This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528878]You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?

It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.

The whole thing feels very supervillainy to me.[/QUOTE]

Feels very like the illuminatti on his avengers run. Trying to save the world without telling anyone else about what is happening, with some very shady methods.

Very weird everyone agrees on villains having power to vote laws and huge decisions. There is also the problem that they are living on a sentient being tht have his own will, tht already screw their over on X of swords

[QUOTE=Brian B;5528820]That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

[B]It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?[/QUOTE][/B]

I think it’s more like Heinlein’s clan family set up, up to and including the luna setting. See [I]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/I] in particular. [spoil]and it will get really interesting if we go down the rebellion path too.[/spoil]

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles are lacking on hubris. i just don't know why the rest of cxmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]

Magneto? Lacking in hubris? I think that's possibly one of the funniest things I've ever read on these boards. I'd have thought if you wanted to create a personification of hubris then Magneto might well be it.

[QUOTE=Big Joe;5528895]Magneto? Lacking in hubris? I think that's possibly one of the funniest things I've ever read on these boards. I'd have thought if you wanted to create a personification of hubris then Magneto might well be it.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I was going to write something else. But Magneto never lacked Hubris

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528885]I don't get why [I]everyone[/I] is onboard with everything Krakoa is, there's no dissenters? (Other than the big one from WoX)

They don't know about Moira, so what gives?[/QUOTE]

it felt very comedic that the only dissenter is a boy because he want to hve adventures on otherworld.

It really lacks a group of known x-men opposing Krakoa way of life. Unless there is a hint of some mind control

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528901]Sorry, I was going to write something else. But Magneto never lacked hubris[/QUOTE]

Yeah, sorry for laughing. I hoped that was what you were going to say.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528887]This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.[/QUOTE]

There's nothing relevant about this though.

Yes, continuity is important, and it's not detrimental to say that a character wouldn't do a given thing because both the writers and readers have an understanding of the characters thanks to that continuity. Writers and editors have a responsibility to respect that continuity - if they want to make a significant change they have make it work narratively, not introduce it suddenly and justify it retroactively. I don't think I'm speaking subjectively, you yourself brought up narrative extrapolation, and we can't reach this conclusion based on the characters' histories.

Maybe I do think that it's impossible, but I haven't even argued that point, simply that as it stand there's no justification. Hickman isn't trying to do so, he's letting readers do it for him.

[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528887]This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.[/QUOTE]
Well, I’m hanging in there with the story so far. I do want to see where Hickman and the X creators are going with this. I am willing to wait as the details are slowly revealed.

Also, something I haven’t seen remarked upon too much is the art in the new, Hickman-headed X titles has been pretty darn good. I could give examples of some issues and titles I haven’t loved, art-wise, but there’s been some real top-flight art published in these X books, stuff that stands up even with the Adams-Palmer issues. Some of it definitely owes a bit to those issues, too. But starting with House and Powers of X through X of Swords, hopefully into the Gala, the art teams have been fantastic.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles have plenty of hubris. i just don't know why the rest of xmen are following him.
There is also a lack of transparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]

Above all, they have been in the business of leadership for quite a long… a bit worn down by it. Old men with old ideas… (They should be old, anyway…)

Strange that new leaders didn’t emerge…

[QUOTE=Zelena;5528942]Above all, they have been in the business of leadership for quite a long… a bit worn down by it. Old men with old ideas… (They should be old, anyway…)

Strange that new leaders didn’t emerge…[/QUOTE]
Moira’s leading behind the scenes. She’s always been a supporting character, but she’s definitely a lead now and leading the charge.

And Nightcrawler, he’s leading in his own way.

Kitty, too, she’s become a great leader.

No, they’re not all Council members, but they are leading.

An aside — how come we never see Moira and Rahne Sinclair enjoying a wee dram and some haggis together?

I just thought about something else good about the HiXmen.

There is NOTHING else happening even half as interesting in any of the other Marvel Comics titles as is happening in the X titles right now. The X-Men are IT, right now. They are top dog at Marvel Comics, no matter the sales numbers. I think the only reason some of the X titles may not be selling better is the sheer number of them, splitting up the readership a bit. If Marvel wants to sell more X books, they may need to slim down the line.

With Marvel owning the X IP lock, stock and barrel, again, including movie rights, the dark days of Ike Perlmutter and his Inhumans are behind us.