What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5530595]Don't agree with everything and I'm a HUGE fan of some of the books you haven't tried out yet, but this was a very fun breakdown to read. Your criticisms completely make sense (see the point that I bolded because I FELT that) and nowhere throughout your analysis did you try to rain on the parade of people who are fully enjoying themselves (which is very appreciated).[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I'm a bit jealous of those who are really loving it - it's an exciting time to be an X-Men fan! Out of interest, what are the books I mentioned that you're a big fan of? I've heard lots of good things about [I]SWORD[/I] so I'm looking forward to trying that.

[QUOTE=Agent Grayson;5531432]To be honest, I'm a bit jealous of those who are really loving it - it's an exciting time to be an X-Men fan! Out of interest, what are the books I mentioned that you're a big fan of? I've heard lots of good things about [I]SWORD[/I] so I'm looking forward to trying that.[/QUOTE]

My favorite books are SWORD, Hellions, New Mutants (after the title got a new writer with issue 14), and X-Factor (which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but I enjoy it). I also had a blast reading the first issue of Way of X, so I’m sure that’ll be added to the list once more issues come out.

[QUOTE=Sutekh;5530666]Yeah, there's a lot of unanswered questions, and a lot of people acting wildly out of character, and I see that not as bad writing, but as a clue that something is very, very wrong.

Stuff like Jay Guthrie, who hated being a mutant so much that he cut off his own wings, refused to use his own healing powers to regrow them, and violently rejected attempts by folk like Elixir to heal them, and joined a mutant-hating cult that murdered a bunch of his friends (and then him), is back, and not only does *he* seem fine with being back (and winged and surrounded by fellow mutants), the people who *died because of him* seem to be fine with him being back, like it never happened! Same with the Cuckoo sisters, seen all together, even if one of them straight up attempted to murder the others. It's like everyone's past has been sort of washed away and they are all just going along with this Krakoa experiment, at the expense of forgetting their own personal pasts.

And I assume that's all quite deliberate, and that, as Way of X says, 'something is rotten in the state of Krakoa.' I'm enjoying the ride, even if I'm aware of the bumps in the road, and can see the drop-off ahead.[/QUOTE]

Jay Guthrie hated being a mutant? He was brainwashed by Striker to believe mutants were devil's but died with a change of heart and deep regret.

[QUOTE=ExodusCloak;5531468]Jay Guthrie hated being a mutant? He was brainwashed by Striker to believe mutants were devil's but died with a change of heart and deep regret.[/QUOTE]

Really? I remember him running away from his friends *again* and right back to Stryker, the mutant-hater who 'thanked' him for his help by shooting him in the head?

Maybe there was a later bit I didn't read?

In either case, his current situation seems to be kind of nonchalant, considering his last few weeks of life, and the complete non-reaction from all the people who could legitimately blame him for getting them or their friends killed, also seems a bit out of character.

There are some mutants, such as the former Morlocks picking a fight with Greycrow, or the other Morlocks refusing to even set foot on Krakoa and hanging out in Arizona or Madripoor, that are acting much more *in* character, it seems.

It doesn't have to be Xavier up to shenanigans, either. Shadow King, Exodus, Krakoa itself, are all potentials. (Krakoa has a passive link to the psychic energies of all of them, for instance, so it's not impossible that he has the ability to render his chosen prey, mutants, somewhat passive and accepting of their current circumstances, so as to remain in place and available for him to feed off of, and not run away.) Perhaps even a modification made to Cerebro, by Moira, that even Xavier doesn't know about!

All sorts of options.

And yes, sloppy writing could be one of them. But there's a whole lot of good writing here, and crazy callbacks to characters we'd practically forgotten (like Taki or Cortez), so it seems unlikely that there'd be quite so much gratuitous OOC behavior from writers who seem to have such a deep well of knowledge of older characters and tales.

[QUOTE=Sutekh;5531474]Really? I remember him running away from his friends *again* and right back to Stryker, the mutant-hater who 'thanked' him for his help by shooting him in the head?

Maybe there was a later bit I didn't read?

In either case, his current situation seems to be kind of nonchalant, considering his last few weeks of life, and the complete non-reaction from all the people who could legitimately blame him for getting them or their friends killed, also seems a bit out of character.

There are some mutants, such as the former Morlocks picking a fight with Greycrow, or the other Morlocks refusing to even set foot on Krakoa and hanging out in Arizona or Madripoor, that are acting much more *in* character, it seems.

It doesn't have to be Xavier up to shenanigans, either. Shadow King, Exodus, Krakoa itself, are all potentials. (Krakoa has a passive link to the psychic energies of all of them, for instance, so it's not impossible that he has the ability to render his chosen prey, mutants, somewhat passive and accepting of their current circumstances, so as to remain in place and available for him to feed off of, and not run away.) Perhaps even a modification made to Cerebro, by Moira, that even Xavier doesn't know about!

All sorts of options.

And yes, sloppy writing could be one of them. But there's a whole lot of good writing here, and crazy callbacks to characters we'd practically forgotten (like Taki or Cortez), so it seems unlikely that there'd be quite so much gratuitous OOC behavior from writers who seem to have such a deep well of knowledge of older characters and tales.[/QUOTE]

Yeah read his death scene. He sees Nimrod, realises he was making a mistake. Tries to save his friends but manages to warn them with a message. Has complete regret. Also Dust followed him and he loved her.

Jay had complete regret

Jays crisis of faith was due to M-Day. He went to a Church seeking guidance because he felt that M-day was a way of God punishing mutants as they are spawn of the devil. Stryker also murdered his girlfriend and prior to M-Day that made Jay suicidal.

Really there are two people Jay should hate Wanda and Stryker. May gave Stryker his wings in the hope to protect his friends

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5531449]My favorite books are SWORD, Hellions, New Mutants (after the title got a new writer with issue 14), and X-Factor (which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but I enjoy it). I also had a blast reading the first issue of Way of X, so I’m sure that’ll be added to the list once more issues come out.[/QUOTE]

I really didn't enjoy [I]New Mutants[/I] but if it changed hands with #14 I may give it a go from there.

[QUOTE=Agent Grayson;5531791]I really didn't enjoy [I]New Mutants[/I] but if it changed hands with #14 I may give it a go from there.[/QUOTE]

I didn't enjoy it either, it was the only other book I picked up besides [I]X-Men[/I]. I honestly don't recall what happened in the book, I dropped it around No 10 or so. I know everyone keeps saying how much they're enjoying their books, and I've said I'm happy for them (it's posted on here, I can't lie about that) but I'm just not interested in the other books. I want the book I [I]am[/I] picking up to be good.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5532519]I didn't enjoy it either, it was the only other book I picked up besides [I]X-Men[/I]. I honestly don't recall what happened in the book, I dropped it around No 10 or so. I know everyone keeps saying how much they're enjoying their books, and I've said I'm happy for them (it's posted on here, I can't lie about that) but I'm just not interested in the other books. I want the book I [I]am[/I] picking up to be good.[/QUOTE]

I think most books have had ups and downs.Only consistent books imo are hellions(good) and excalibur(bad).

One thing that is making this book hard for me at least to get into is this resurrection thing, it feels a lot like that extended Thor arc where Asgard was anchored over a US city and the storyline went on and on until King Thor and then an equivalent of Bobby Ewing in the shower (80's Dallas TV trope) and oh this storyline never really happened, was it a dream or a parallel earth who knows but it was a waste of time. I know lots of thing are wiped away these days when creators changed, ah continuity went the way of Kayfabe (wrestling term) but when if seems like a show is in an alt universe or might be a fever dream it is harder to invest in it, yeah crazier things can happen because they can't truly be that way. Yeah Hal can die in Gods among us but that isn't really Hal. I have felt that way since HoX PoX mini's where it's like Wolvie is dead and I am like, yeah right, come to find out all the X-Men are Kenny on South Park but that can't last either because then what is the tension?

[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5533046]I think most books have had ups and downs.Only consistent books imo are hellions(good) and excalibur(bad).[/QUOTE]

That's fair, Hickman's run hasn't been downright terrible, it's just disappointing me.

[QUOTE=EmeraldGladiator;5533557]One thing that is making this book hard for me at least to get into is this resurrection thing, it feels a lot like that extended Thor arc where Asgard was anchored over a US city and the storyline went on and on until King Thor and then an equivalent of Bobby Ewing in the shower (80's Dallas TV trope) and oh this storyline never really happened, was it a dream or a parallel earth who knows but it was a waste of time. I know lots of thing are wiped away these days when creators changed, ah continuity went the way of Kayfabe (wrestling term) but when if seems like a show is in an alt universe or might be a fever dream it is harder to invest in it, yeah crazier things can happen because they can't truly be that way. Yeah Hal can die in Gods among us but that isn't really Hal. I have felt that way since HoX PoX mini's where it's like Wolvie is dead and I am like, yeah right, come to find out all the X-Men are Kenny on South Park but that can't last either because then what is the tension?[/QUOTE]

As a former wrestling fan, I guess the way forward is to work on getting readers to suspend their disbelief despite the death of kayfabe. No gimmicks or hype, just plain old good writing.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5532519]I didn't enjoy it either, it was the only other book I picked up besides [I]X-Men[/I]. I honestly don't recall what happened in the book, I dropped it around No 10 or so. I know everyone keeps saying how much they're enjoying their books, and I've said I'm happy for them (it's posted on here, I can't lie about that) but I'm just not interested in the other books. I want the book I [I]am[/I] picking up to be good.[/QUOTE]

I didn't make it as far as #10 but hopefully I'll enjoy it more with the new writer. I agree, though - I'm getting to the point where I'm past the introductory phase and I'm not interesting in pressing on with the books that I'm just not enjoying. At the moment, it's looking like I'll keep reading [I]X-Men[/I] (the new direction that's coming up helps) and [I]Marauders[/I] (I love the team line-up and despite some frustrations I mostly enjoy it).

I won't be continuing with [I]X-Force[/I] (which is basically a circle of Beast making terrible decisions with no consequences) or [I]Hellions[/I] (the first arc didn't really grab me and I'm not overly invested in any of the cast).

I'm on the fence about [I]X-Factor[/I] - I've read #1-3 now and while I'm enjoying the premise, the execution is lacking something for me...it seems more interested in trying to be quirky and funny than telling an engaging story. I'm going to persevere with it for a few more issues.

I'm looking forward to trying [I]Wolverine[/I], [I]SWORD[/I] and [I]Way of X[/I].

[QUOTE=EmeraldGladiator;5533557]One thing that is making this book hard for me at least to get into is this resurrection thing, it feels a lot like that extended Thor arc where Asgard was anchored over a US city and the storyline went on and on until King Thor and then an equivalent of Bobby Ewing in the shower (80's Dallas TV trope) and oh this storyline never really happened, was it a dream or a parallel earth who knows but it was a waste of time. I know lots of thing are wiped away these days when creators changed, ah continuity went the way of Kayfabe (wrestling term) but when if seems like a show is in an alt universe or might be a fever dream it is harder to invest in it, yeah crazier things can happen because they can't truly be that way. Yeah Hal can die in Gods among us but that isn't really Hal. I have felt that way since HoX PoX mini's where it's like Wolvie is dead and I am like, yeah right, come to find out all the X-Men are Kenny on South Park but that can't last either because then what is the tension?[/QUOTE]

I never had a problem with the whole resurrection thing because characters never stayed dead and in some cases ruined a great story. I do feel you hit the nail on the head with the Kenny on South Park comment because that seemed like the running joke every time I read X-Force.

[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5534948]I never had a problem with the whole resurrection thing because characters never stayed dead and in some cases ruined a great story. I do feel you hit the nail on the head with the Kenny on South Park comment because that seemed like the running joke every time I read X-Force.[/QUOTE]

It's never been this transparent before. And then they introduced super-death in XoS, so...

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5535821]It's never been this transparent before. And then they introduced super-death in XoS, so...[/QUOTE]

I'm not even at XoS yet and can't really see myself catching up any time soon. Shame really because HoXPoX got me back into the X-Men

The more I think about in hindsight, am I the only one who found it really uncomfortable how Apocalypse was painted as some poor misunderstood hero?

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5536615]The more I think about in hindsight, am I the only one who found it really uncomfortable how Apocalypse was painted as some poor misunderstood hero?[/QUOTE]

and Mr Sinister there is like appointing Josef Mengele to a high ranking position in Israel; the whole scenario is all kinds of #$%@ed up.

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5536615]The more I think about in hindsight, am I the only one who found it really uncomfortable how Apocalypse was painted as some poor misunderstood hero?[/QUOTE]

Not the only one. They really tried hard to white wash him

[QUOTE=Nazrel;5536619]and Mr Sinister there is like appointing Josef Mengele to a high ranking position in Israel; the whole scenario is all kinds of #$%@ed up.[/QUOTE]

It's very wrong

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5536615]The more I think about in hindsight, am I the only one who found it really uncomfortable how Apocalypse was painted as some poor misunderstood hero?[/QUOTE]

I am convinced Krakoa is having an effect on people that makes them docile. Some people seem to have a bit of a resistance to it.

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5536615]The more I think about in hindsight, am I the only one who found it really uncomfortable how Apocalypse was painted as some poor misunderstood hero?[/QUOTE]

I have always felt uncomfortable with Magneto being one of the X-Men so didn't have an opinion either way.

[QUOTE=cranger;5536670]I am convinced Krakoa is having an effect on people that makes them docile. Some people seem to have a bit of a resistance to it.[/QUOTE]
You know how some insects can inject something into you where you don't feel the sting or them sucking your blood? I wonder if Krakoa does the same thing. It drains peoples live energy and gives them the subliminal message "Krakoa is a great place to live! You love everything about the place! Nothing wrong every happens here!"


[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5534948]I never had a problem with the whole resurrection thing because characters never stayed dead and in some cases ruined a great story. I do feel you hit the nail on the head with the Kenny on South Park comment because that seemed like the running joke every time I read X-Force.[/QUOTE]
I'm willing to accept that for the purpose of a particular story, when a character dies, they're dead. It's going to mean something and everyone is going to treat it like a big deal, even if later it gets changed.

What they're doing right now though doesn't even give you that. "Death" has basically just become a penalty box. You died? Well, you just have to sit the rest of this mission out and we'll fix you later.

[QUOTE=Alan2099;5537113]You know how some insects can inject something into you where you don't feel the sting or them sucking your blood? I wonder if Krakoa does the same thing. It drains peoples live energy and gives them the subliminal message "Krakoa is a great place to live! You love everything about the place! Nothing wrong every happens here!"



I'm willing to accept that for the purpose of a particular story, when a character dies, they're dead. It's going to mean something and everyone is going to treat it like a big deal, even if later it gets changed.

What they're doing right now though doesn't even give you that. "Death" has basically just become a penalty box. You died? Well, you just have to sit the rest of this mission out and we'll fix you later.[/QUOTE]

Everyone will have their own opinion on this but DPS was the one story they never should of changed. When Jean came back, you just knew no one would ever stay dead in the world of comics. I would rather know they will be back than be told it wasn't really Magneto who had his head cut off.

[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5536762]I have always felt uncomfortable with Magneto being one of the X-Men so didn't have an opinion either way.[/QUOTE]

Magneto at least has 30+ years of going back and forth, Apocalypse was a genocidal mad man with a pop-culture approach to eugenics up until right before HoXPoX, and is now considered the X-Men’s eccentric uncle whose genocidal actions across millennia are right and proper

[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5537159]Everyone will have their own opinion on this but DPS was the one story they never should of changed. When Jean came back, you just knew no one would ever stay dead in the world of comics. I would rather know they will be back than be told it wasn't really Magneto who had his head cut off.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. Before Jean, when a character died they stayed dead. Gwen Stacey stayed dead. Captain Marvel stayed dead. Norman Osborn stayed dead. Thunderbird stayed dead. Jean's return not only messed up DPS by making it not about Jean and turned Cyclops into a man who ran out on his wife and newborn baby, but it was a turning point for the entire industry in making death into a revolving door. So much of what has gone wrong in comics for the last 25 years I blame on the decision to bring Jean back.

[QUOTE=sunofdarkchild;5537205]I agree 100%. Before Jean, when a character died they stayed dead. Gwen Stacey stayed dead. Captain Marvel stayed dead. Norman Osborn stayed dead. Thunderbird stayed dead. Jean's return not only messed up DPS by making it not about Jean and turned Cyclops into a man who ran out on his wife and newborn baby, but it was a turning point for the entire industry in making death into a revolving door. So much of what has gone wrong in comics for the last 25 years I blame on the decision to bring Jean back.[/QUOTE]

Of course it was all Jean's fault

not the cyclical nature of superhero comics.

[QUOTE=Alan2099;5537113]I'm willing to accept that for the purpose of a particular story, when a character dies, they're dead. It's going to mean something and everyone is going to treat it like a big deal, even if later it gets changed.

What they're doing right now though doesn't even give you that. "Death" has basically just become a penalty box. You died? Well, you just have to sit the rest of this mission out and we'll fix you later.[/QUOTE]

While i can understand where people are comming from when they point out that death has kind of become a joke among super hero characters anyway, simply for how often it's reversed or they come back from it, i argue it was still meant to be something serious in universe and something for a character to avoid by any means necessary, in order to maintain drama and tension.

Because even though it has been possible by various means for a long time, it shouldn't be easy or relied upon by characters, so that it feels like there are still stakes attached to their various daring fights and adventures.

Or to compare it to wrestling.
Almost everyone knows that the outcome of matches in showman wrestling are predeterminded and that the stories are fake (the athletic action and wear on the body is real though), so in theory storylines, dialoge and character interactions shouldn't matter.
But for most fans they absolutely do, because these people still like the idea of stories being part of some fictional universe in which these things are supposed to be real, so they still want those stories and characterizations to happen and have a level of quality.
Same goes for the fights themselves, where even when it's completely clear who is going to win or loss, the audience still want them to struggle for or against it, in order for the victories to feel "earned" or the defeats to have involved struggle

And i feel the same goes for death and resurrection in comics.

That there is an unwritten rule that even if characters had the means to cheat death, they shouldn't rely on it in order to maintain the tension of the story in universe. For which writers would then, if necessary, come up with various reasons.
Like clone decay, mind transfer issues, soul recovery problems, loss of identity, inviting super natural forces to posses someone and so on.

With the only characters who have an easy way to come back from the dead either suffering from it (the heroic kind ala Mister Immortal) or being villains for whom all the negative side effects don't matter anyway (or play into their character).

And here this rule is broken, with seemingly no consequences and writers have switched to abusing it, just because they can or have to. With the result being that where once characters had to struggle not to die, they just casualy dismiss the consequences and stakes become softer.

However i have to admit, that there is still some benefit of a doubt to give about it.
That it's likely there is going to be a bill comming for it eventualy. That there are downsides that will come to haunt and break the system appart and establish why it can never be relied upon again.

Way of X seems like it could lay the foundation to how will eventualy break appart for example.

But if it sticks i think it's setting a bad precedent and weakens characters and stories in the long run.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5537226]Of course it was all Jean's fault

not the cyclical nature of superhero comics.[/QUOTE]

But as I pointed out, comics weren't cyclical before Jean came back. Characters stayed dead. Spider-Man graduated high-school and college. The original X-Men grew up and left for different teams or careers. Sue and Reed got married and had a kid and Vision and the Scarlett Witch got married. Villains who joined the Avengers or the X-Men like Hawkeye and Rogue stayed heroes. It was X-Factor that started the trend of things going back to the way they were before instead of moving forward, with the 05 reuniting and even bringing back the Scott-Jean-Warren love triangle. It was X-Factor that started the trend of comics having no respect for older stories, and it was X-Factor that started the trend of bringing dead characters back.

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5537173]Magneto at least has 30+ years of going back and forth, Apocalypse was a genocidal mad man with a pop-culture approach to eugenics up until right before HoXPoX, and is now considered the X-Men’s eccentric uncle whose genocidal actions across millennia are right and proper[/QUOTE]

When you go back and look at some of things Magneto as done or could of gone on to to if he hadn't of been stopped then you begin to question where you draw the line. You even begin to wonder where THEY draw the line when Sinister runs around with his own team.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5537226]Of course it was all Jean's fault

not the cyclical nature of superhero comics.[/QUOTE]

Jean's as much, or more, of a victim of the decision to bring her back as anyone. She had this EPIC heroic choice at the end of her life to sacrifice herself to save the people she loved, and it was taken away from her. Nope. Not her choice at all. Just something pretending to be her being all dramatic since death is utterly meaningless to it, and Jean's big heroic moment is now it's (kinda pointless and temporary) decision, while Jean was sleeping in a pod at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. She was utterly stripped of agency and turned into a passive victim of the Phoenix entity in *her own damn story.*

The blame doesn't lie on Jean. Nor does it lie on the Phoenix Force, a fictional construct. It lies on the writers who chose to bring her back for the conceit of 'getting the old band back together' for X-Factor, even if that meant dragging Warren and Bobby backwards in character development, and demutating Hank so that he looked like his old self, and having Scott abandon his wife and kid because they didn't fit the old nostalgic format they were going for.

[QUOTE=Sutekh;5537326]Jean's as much, or more, of a victim of the decision to bring her back as anyone. She had this EPIC heroic choice at the end of her life to sacrifice herself to save the people she loved, and it was taken away from her. Nope. Not her choice at all. Just something pretending to be her being all dramatic since death is utterly meaningless to it, and Jean's big heroic moment is now it's (kinda pointless and temporary) decision, while Jean was sleeping in a pod at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. She was utterly stripped of agency and turned into a passive victim of the Phoenix entity in *her own damn story.*

The blame doesn't lie on Jean. Nor does it lie on the Phoenix Force, a fictional construct. It lies on the writers who chose to bring her back for the conceit of 'getting the old band back together' for X-Factor, even if that meant dragging Warren and Bobby backwards in character development, and demutating Hank so that he looked like his old self, and having Scott abandon his wife and kid because they didn't fit the old nostalgic format they were going for.[/QUOTE]

And yet it resulted in one of the best runs of X books ever. Such a travesty.

Before Jean's death, characters would die and come back. The writers would just pull a "oh, you thought this character had died? No, it turns out they were just pretending or a shapeshifter had taken their form" or some other BS like that.

No matter how you choose to see that character who died on the Moon - if it was the Phoenix copying Jean's body/mind/personality/memories or actually Jean (which you could infer from what happens in Inferno and it makes more sense when consider everything that happpened in DPS) - that character decided to die because Jean would have decided the same. So it's her choice.

I mean, if you buy the resurection protocols, why is it so hard to see Jean in the cocoon as an earlier backup and the Jean who died in the Moon as Jean?

[QUOTE=Rang10;5537226]Of course it was all Jean's fault

not the cyclical nature of superhero comics.[/QUOTE]

Technically, [I]sunofdarkchild [/I]said he blamed on the decision to ressurect Jean, not Jean herself… (which would be ridiculous)

I'm just over halfway through [I]X of Swords[/I] and man...it's a mess. It's really draining the goodwill I had towards this run.

[QUOTE=sunofdarkchild;5537205]I agree 100%. Before Jean, when a character died they stayed dead. Gwen Stacey stayed dead. Captain Marvel stayed dead. Norman Osborn stayed dead. Thunderbird stayed dead. Jean's return not only messed up DPS by making it not about Jean and turned Cyclops into a man who ran out on his wife and newborn baby, but it was a turning point for the entire industry in making death into a revolving door. So much of what has gone wrong in comics for the last 25 years I blame on the decision to bring Jean back.[/QUOTE]

It’s very different to “kill a character” and not be sure he/she will come back and saying “oh, death is pointless, it’s just a bad time to spend, wait a moment, you will be as good as new”.

The force of X-men’s stories for all the marvel and the creativity is that they were rooted in the reality. It seems to happen very far, now.

[QUOTE=Agent Grayson;5537375]I'm just over halfway through [I]X of Swords[/I] and man...it's a mess. It's really draining the goodwill I had towards this run.[/QUOTE]

X of Swords is horrible. And the X-Men issues leading up to it, where they talk and talk and talk in order to explain the Arrako mythology we have to know to get X of Swords, is just as bad.

[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5536463]I'm not even at XoS yet and can't really see myself catching up any time soon. Shame really because HoXPoX got me back into the X-Men[/QUOTE]

I need to find time, I've got overtime work and school. My metric on if a comic is really good is that I read it immediately instead of putting it off, and unfortunately the X-Books haven't met that standard in a while.

[QUOTE=Agent Grayson;5537375]I'm just over halfway through [I]X of Swords[/I] and man...it's a mess. It's really draining the goodwill I had towards this run.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=johnnysv75;5537384]X of Swords is horrible. And the X-Men issues leading up to it, where they talk and talk and talk in order to explain the Arrako mythology we have to know to get X of Swords, is just as bad.[/QUOTE]

Finally, my people have arrived.

Wasn't there also an art reprint scandal? I swear two separate issues of the event reused complete pages from one another or something.

For some reason I started thinking about Chuck Austen’s X-Men today, and that made me sober up a bit. His run was so bad that it often made me angry. I often wondered why the editors didn’t stop him.
The X-books are for the most part in good form today. Hickman has built an incredible world, and he has planned the entire story well in advance. You can feel that most of the things happen for a reason.
It is just that after the first mini series, nothing much has been as interesting and thought provoking. There hasn’t really been any interesting developments since those first issues (besides Mystique’s story that I can’t wait to get back to). And that is why I don’t think Hickman’s X-Men is as entertaining as it used to be.

Nah. I dropped it all a while back. But, if I'm being honest, I'm not reading many American comics at all these days. It just doesn't feel like you get much return for your investment.

[QUOTE=Agent Grayson;5537375]I'm just over halfway through [I]X of Swords[/I] and man...it's a mess. It's really draining the goodwill I had towards this run.[/QUOTE]

I honestly feel like that event could have been the three one-shots and then some other books as tie-ins as opposed to the 22 "chapters" that we got. Won't see me defending that event.

[B]Hizashi [/B] there was definitely an issue of X-Men in the middle that was a bunch of reused art. I was honestly pretty annoyed but I think the event was moving so fast that I kinda just moved on + we had been deprived of comics for so long that I just took it [SIZE=1](big mistake lol).[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=johnnysv75;5537477]For some reason I started thinking about Chuck Austen’s X-Men today, and that made me sober up a bit. His run was so bad that it often made me angry. I often wondered why the editors didn’t stop him.
The X-books are for the most part in good form today. Hickman has built an incredible world, and he has planned the entire story well in advance. You can feel that most of the things happen for a reason.
It is just that after the first mini series, nothing much has been as interesting and thought provoking. There hasn’t really been any interesting developments since those first issues (besides Mystique’s story that I can’t wait to get back to). And that is why I don’t think Hickman’s X-Men is as entertaining as it used to be.[/QUOTE]

There's definitely plenty of good ideas here, just a couple of stinkers too and lackluster writing. I've said before this run isn't outright bad, but it's not [I]that[/I] amazing either. Hickman ending it at No 21, taking everything that it is, his X-Men is pretty underwhelming. It doesn't work as well on its own, and that's not good.