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[QUOTE=Jackraow21;5541095]American football is superior to soccer. Everyone knows that.[/QUOTE]
It's called football NOT soccer.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5541152]Especially when it's perfectly clear that there are other prominent mutants who clearly don't subscribe to that ideology.[/QUOTE]
Do they strongly object? I don’t have this impression… It seems to me they became rather lenient with people expressing such views.
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[QUOTE=Jackraow21;5541095]American football is superior to soccer. Everyone knows that.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. But only in America.
In the rest of the world, to the rest of the world...Football reigns supreme.
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[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5540540]I will never get the tension or emotion if I know it is an illusion.
I do believe resurrection opens the door to some very interesting stories IF they are done right.[/QUOTE]
On the former point, I think that has as much to do with an individual's ability to suspend their disbelief as it does a comics creative teams' ability to sell the story. Marvel has really hurt themselves in that regard throughout the years, corporate cape comics have, so they need to rethink their strategy.
I agree on the latter point.
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[QUOTE=Grinning Soul;5540768]Factual point:
[url]https://external-preview.redd.it/prEJNkrMqBvK9carq-HMORonDKSFju08LckPNDWWwnQ.jpg?auto=webp&ed6002b5[/url]
The creation of Krakoa is exactly what triggers the Orchis Protocols.
I'd like us to come out of this era with the X-Men finally realising that true co-existence (not forced acceptance) is not a beautiful ideology, but the only practical way to go. No mutant nation will ever survive if mutants aren't first actually accepted. And, for me, the most obvious way (although it’s not an easy way) for that to happen would be if both mutants and gene-typical humans realised they are, objectively, part of the same species.
The idea that mutants are an endangered species is conceptually wrong. Gene-typical humans and mutants are so genetically close they can freely reproduce. The offspring of two gene-typical humans can be mutant (Charles Xavier, the O5, etc...). The offspring of two mutants can be gene-typical (Gaydon Creed). And there doesn't seem to be any difficulty in mating between a mutant and a gene-typical human (David Haller, Lorna Dane, etc...).
But the idea of being an “endangered species” has been at the centre of what has motivated the X-Men for so long that few people even question it. One of the reasons I’m still somewhat interested in Hickman’s run is the hope that this will change.
I don’t think this will happen, though…
Note: Another conceptual problem: if you remove mutants from the [I]Homo sapiens[/I] species, how else could you accept that humans are, in fact, evolving unless such evolution is machine/AI-driven? If you declare any mutation creates a different species, you are putting [I]Homo sapiens[/I] in an evolutionary prison that only accepts evolution if it's non-biological.[/QUOTE]
This would be ideal, that's where I'd take the X-Men if I could.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5541170]Do they strongly object? I don’t have this impression… It seems to me they became rather lenient with people expressing such views.[/QUOTE]
That's true, and where has this assertion that anyone is saying all of Krakoa is supremacist come from? Prominent mutants and mutants in leadership expressing sentiments like Magneto and no one telling them to chill is enough of a problem.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5541152]On an island of so many mutants, some villainous, some heroic, villains turned hero, some children, some adults...so many personalities of ALL types...of course there will be some with such extreme views as "mutant supremacy". And certainly no big surprise that people like Cortez, Magneto, Exodus and o--[A]--o would be the ones to express that sentiment but...
[B]Why is the whole mutant populace being tarred and feathered with the same MS brush?
Especially when it's perfectly clear that there are other prominent mutants who clearly don't subscribe to that ideology.[/B][/QUOTE]
Ugh I know right judging a whole nation of people based on the actions or ideas of a few of it's citizens is like grody to the max
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5541161]It's called football NOT soccer.[/QUOTE]
Not here it ain't
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5541231]That's true, and where has this assertion that anyone is saying all of Krakoa is supremacist come from? Prominent mutants and mutants in leadership expressing sentiments like Magneto and no one telling them to chill is enough of a problem.[/QUOTE]
Errr this is Magnero on chill mode.
And whyyy is it not the same for human governments? Ya know the ones that allowed giant death robots to operate and "apprehend" Mutants or allow crazy robots like Bastian to seize power, experiment on reg people turning them into smaller but just as deadly robots to deal with the mutant problem... Or the ones that facilitated the Mother Mold, or that were complacent when Mutants were being gassed to death? Y'all reeeeally gonna say that after a that Mutsbts I power or outta power need to chill in their remarks towards these same governments??
[QUOTE=carmoc1234;5541137]i don't disagree with the point your trying to make and i don't think the intent of this scene is to come off that way, but just because humans aren't around to hear it doesn't mean mutant supremacy talk suddenly doesn't count. like white supremacy rhetoric doesn't suddenly just not exist until a black person is nearby to hear it. they do it just as much amongst themselves to reaffirm there own beliefs.[/QUOTE]
True True it just didn't much much sense to me given the context
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5541231]That's true, and where has this assertion that anyone is saying all of Krakoa is supremacist come from? Prominent mutants and mutants in leadership expressing sentiments like Magneto and no one telling them to chill is enough of a problem.[/QUOTE]
True, people are allowed to expresse supremacist ideas without any backlash
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its an over bloated meander mess that reeks of editorial control. no way this is hickman's vision. im giving duggan 3 issues to show me its worth sticking around for if not i wont even pirate this nonsense.
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This is what I will say about the "Krakoa Era" of the X-Men: it is an intriguing and compelling take on the X-universe. I do appreciate the creativity and world-building that has taken place.
I personally believe that the X-Men stand for more than just protecting and caring for mutants. I fell in love with them because they fought for everyone. I don't think that altruistic mission statement can ever be surpassed.
I think Krakoa is a great creation and should continue to be a sovereign nation and I hope future writers will continue to build/add to it... I just don't think the X-Men should be based there or leading it. I think their calling is beyond Krakoa.
I hope that when all is said and done with this era, the X-Men will occupy a greater space in the Marvel Universe where they are synonymous within the public's eye as the Avengers, the FF, etc... I hope they even have team members that aren't mutants because they've truly become a team that reflects higher ideals.
I appreciate Hickman is crafting and telling a story that hasn't been told on this scale. I can't wait to collect it in it's entirety.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5541152]On an island of so many mutants, some villainous, some heroic, villains turned hero, some children, some adults...so many personalities of ALL types...of course there will be some with such extreme views as "mutant supremacy". And certainly no big surprise that people like Cortez, Magneto, Exodus and o--[A]--o would be the ones to express that sentiment but...
Why is the whole mutant populace being tarred and feathered with the same MS brush?
Especially when it's perfectly clear that there are other prominent mutants who clearly don't subscribe to that ideology.[/QUOTE]
I guess it's the same like the entire human populace being tarred and feathered with the same "evil label" brush. The Friends of Humanity, The Right, The Purifiers, Orchis, various Governments, ect.. They do something harmful to mutants and suddenly it's all of humanity who are evil and bigots and racists, including the poor who probably live in some slum in a third world country and are only concerned with surviving day to day and know next to nothing about mutants. They get lumped in with Orchis, The Purifiers and the rest. It goes both ways, if you want to say the all humans are culpable for what a handful of them do then the same will be said about mutants; they are culpable for what some among them preach and believe. Tit for tat.
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[QUOTE=ospfwildcard;5541445]its an over bloated meander mess that reeks of editorial control. no way this is hickman's vision. im giving duggan 3 issues to show me its worth sticking around for if not i wont even pirate this nonsense.[/QUOTE]
Hickman is having total freedom. I think this i swhat you get when you pay him as a showrunner, he just write very little and still get a good pay.
I reember when he said that he would rotate to wrie others books on the line for 6 issues lik he did on new Mutants and he ended never doing that
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5541015]They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.
Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?[/QUOTE]
Cable is considered the better fighter... no matter how wrong that actually is, but that’s what SS was referring to.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5541170]Do they strongly object? I don’t have this impression… It seems to me they became rather lenient with people expressing such views.[/QUOTE]
Wolverine has said it multiple times. His opinion is everyone has opportunities to be good or bad and being human or mutant doesn’t automatically make you good or bad, it’s how you act. He was ready to fight Apocalypse when he set foot on Krakoa but Xavier made Poccy his homie.
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[QUOTE=Silver Phoenix;5541464]This is what I will say about the "Krakoa Era" of the X-Men: it is an intriguing and compelling take on the X-universe. I do appreciate the creativity and world-building that has taken place.
I personally believe that the X-Men stand for more than just protecting and caring for mutants. I fell in love with them because they fought for everyone. I don't think that altruistic mission statement can ever be surpassed.
I think Krakoa is a great creation and should continue to be a sovereign nation and I hope future writers will continue to build/add to it... I just don't think the X-Men should be based there or leading it. I think their calling is beyond Krakoa.
I hope that when all is said and done with this era, the X-Men will occupy a greater space in the Marvel Universe where they are synonymous within the public's eye as the Avengers, the FF, etc... I hope they even have team members that aren't mutants because they've truly become a team that reflects higher ideals.
I appreciate Hickman is crafting and telling a story that hasn't been told on this scale. I can't wait to collect it in it's entirety.[/QUOTE]
More likely than not if X-Men operate outside Krakoa and embrace a neutral stance between humanity and mutants.It will put them at odds with their own kind and a Krakoan schism will most likely lead to its collapse.If not, then we'll go back to the X-Men living among humanity and Krakoa(like the morlocks)isolating themselves and having brotherhood type animus.In a way nothing is new under the sun that is why Moira life 11 is the failsafe.;)
