[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5469935]But Weapon Plus involves the capture and experimentation of mutants, as if they were less than human, indicating that maybe Magneto was right that there was a war taking place.[/QUOTE]
It was started by a sentient mind controlling bacteria from the dawn of time.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5469911]Timeline wise, doesn't stuff like Weapon Plus/X predate Magneto's public supervillain debut?[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mister Sinister perform leathal experiments on mutants ever since the 1800's?
Though talking about him. I'm not sure if it predates or happend somewhat after Weapon Plus started, but there was also the Black Womb project during WWII, which involved researching mutants and involved Amanda Mueller, Mister Sinister, Destiny and Cain Marko's and Charles Xavier's fathers.
Though if we want to go further back regarding mutants and base humans doing horrible things to one another, there are the wars Apocalypse waged and what ever Selene was up to. Plus it seems there was always a coin toss about ancient mutants on what ever they would become worshiped as gods or killed as monsters (i guess based on their appearance and powers as per usual).
Either way. There were conflicts, heroics and villainy going on involving mutants for a long time in the Marvel universe. So yes, all that Magneto did was to drag it into the modern day spotlight, instead of leaving the conflict a shadow society type invisible war.
[QUOTE=Grunty;5469959]Didn't Mister Sinister perform leathal experiments on mutants ever since the 1800's?
[/QUOTE]
See... Mr. Sinister’s inclusion in all this STILL has me scratching my head. Like I can move past pretty much everything else, but he is such an amoral POS who is clearly gonna betray them. (I know they need the DNA samples... but they couldn’t just steal them?)
[QUOTE=Journey;5469896]Again they can't call themselves "gods" & expect viewers to take that seriously when their getting offed by regular humans whom are ants when compared to gods, some puny gods 8f that's the case, in particular 1 of their elite omega levels "meant to be protected at all cost" stays getting owned by humans that was a clown quote from Mags.[/QUOTE]
Look at my other posts on this topic.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5469971]See... Mr. Sinister’s inclusion in all this STILL has me scratching my head. Like I can move past pretty much everything else, but he is such an amoral POS who is clearly gonna betray them. (I know they need the DNA samples... but they couldn’t just steal them?)[/QUOTE]
Im pretty sure his stuff is heavily encrypted and they wouldnt know what to do with it
[QUOTE=Zelena;5469480]The X-men, the mutants are fictional characters. They don’t have a value by themselves. They had aventures and showed their true colors, they represented values. The X-men represented good values: generosity, courage, greatness of heart… while keeping human weaknesses.
What do they represent now if they endorse existing divisions? Selfishness, segregation, arrogance?
The role of heroes is to show the way. The good way. They are not heroes, anymore? What is the purpose?[/QUOTE]
I agree with your assessment.
I have not quite made my mind of Mr Sinister, on one hand I believe they prefer to keep him close at hand than out in the world doing who knows what and at least Erik and Charles know he´s going to try to betray them at some point so they are watchin him all the time and while I am sure Hickman and Zeb Wells enjoy writting him we need a reson why the rest of the X-men, especially Scott, Jean and Havok are ok having him around, I would not mind a deeper character exploration on this.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5469971]See... Mr. Sinister’s inclusion in all this STILL has me scratching my head. Like I can move past pretty much everything else, but he is such an amoral POS who is clearly gonna betray them. (I know they need the DNA samples... but they couldn’t just steal them?)[/QUOTE]
On the surface level it seems mostly an action of "necessary evil", because of the mentioned DNA samples and all his knowledge of mutants and their DNA.
But the more one thinks about it and what they had at their disposale for a while and have even more right now, it just seem so risky to keep holding onto Sinister, especialy since his secret cloning facility and everything else he does shouldn't be so easy to hide as he thinks
Especialy since as you mention they could have easily gotten their hands on his DNA collection allready (which i allready find weirdly convinient considering how the hell did Sinister get 17.5 million mutant DNA samples???)
While Beast has for a while become somewhat moraly problematic (and moving close into Dark Beast territory) and Doctor Nemesis is a somewhat chaotic person, both would still be easy first line replacements for him and considering the millions of mutants they claim to have, there should be a few pretty brilliant minds among them who as a collective could take Sinisters place.
Heck if Sinister is a mutant now, shouldn't Xavier allready have his mind stored on Cerebro? Just take all the vital memories from there and store it in a database, or have Prodigy absorb it.
So yeah. Sinister in his position is just asking for trouble and it's not like Xavier isn't aware of what he could do. They know through Moira what he did in her last life on Mars.
But perhaps that's exactly why they want him around... Hickman introduced the Chimera concept for a reason. But we have to wonder why Xavier might want it, IF that is his main reason for keeping Sinister around.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5470001]I have not quite made my mind of Mr Sinister, on one hand I believe they prefer to keep him close at hand than out in the world doing who knows what and at least Erik and Charles know he´s going to try to betray them at some point so they are watchin him all the time and while I am sure Hickman and Zeb Wells enjoy writting him we need a reson why the rest of the X-men, especially Scott, Jean and Havok are ok having him around, I would not mind a deeper character exploration on this.[/QUOTE]
I agree, keep your friends close but keep your enemies even closer.
[QUOTE=Grunty;5470015]On the surface level it seems mostly an action of "necessary evil", because of the mentioned DNA samples and all his knowledge of mutants and their DNA.
But the more one thinks about it and what they had at their disposale for a while and have even more right now, it just seem so risky to keep holding onto Sinister, especialy since his secret cloning facility and everything else he does shouldn't be so easy to hide as he thinks
Especialy since as you mention they could have easily gotten their hands on his DNA collection allready (which i allready find weirdly convinient considering [B]how the hell did Sinister get 17.5 million mutant DNA samples???)[/B]
While Beast has for a while become somewhat moraly problematic (and moving close into Dark Beast territory) and Doctor Nemesis is a somewhat chaotic person, both would still be easy first line replacements for him and considering the millions of mutants they claim to have, there should be a few pretty brilliant minds among them who as a collective could take Sinisters place.
Heck if Sinister is a mutant now, shouldn't Xavier allready have his mind stored on Cerebro? Just take all the vital memories from there and store it in a database, or have Prodigy absorb it.
So yeah. Sinister in his position is just asking for trouble and it's not like Xavier isn't aware of what he could do. They know through Moira what he did in her last life on Mars.
But perhaps that's exactly why they want him around... Hickman introduced the Chimera concept for a reason. But we have to wonder why Xavier might want it, IF that is his main reason for keeping Sinister around.[/QUOTE]
the GCDs as seen in Hellions
[QUOTE=Havok83;5470038]the GCDs as seen in Hellions[/QUOTE]
Grand Comic Database?
I guess greatest common divisor. I better check the issue.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5470001]I have not quite made my mind of Mr Sinister, on one hand I believe they prefer to keep him close at hand than out in the world doing who knows what and at least Erik and Charles know he´s going to try to betray them at some point so they are watchin him all the time and while I am sure Hickman and Zeb Wells enjoy writting him we need a reson why the rest of the X-men, especially Scott, Jean and [B]Havok[/B] are ok having him around, I would not mind a deeper character exploration on this.[/QUOTE]
I love Hellions, but the way the QC handed Havok over to Sinister was completely out of pocket.
[QUOTE=Grunty;5470055]Grand Comic Database?
I guess greatest common divisor. I better check the issue.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/rFphS5q.jpg[/img]
His database is populated thanks to drones that he sends out that collect the DNA automatically for him
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5470072]I love Hellions, but the way the QC handed Havok over to Sinister was completely out of pocket.[/QUOTE]
Havok needs help with his inversion, maybe Magik could help there, not be send to Mr Sinister team even if I enjoy his interactions with the rest of the team Wells talks of him as the tourist of the group because he really doesn´t belong there and Havok past with Sinister definitely is one more reason to question his inclusion with the Hellions.
Sinister having a team is where I draw the (last) line on krakoa. Like why would them do that? they are all crazy
[QUOTE=Rang10;5470104]Sinister having a team is where I draw the (last) line on krakoa. Like why would them do that? they are all crazy[/QUOTE]
I mean he was already part of the head government at that point giving him a team is small potatoes.
Apparently the X-Men don't have any other psychologists besides Xavier so the only remaining options were Pit or Sinister.
[QUOTE=Journey;5470116]I mean he was already part of the head government at that point giving him a team is small potatoes.[/QUOTE]
This is kinda where I'm at. If the book wasn't so good I'd probably pick apart the logic more, but I'm not gonna complain about something that entertains me on a monthly basis.
[QUOTE=Journey;5470116]I mean he was already part of the head government at that point giving him a team is small potatoes.[/QUOTE]
Then you give a small army to Sinister? I guess a "why not" shrug happened
[QUOTE=Triniking1234;5470167]Apparently the X-Men don't have any other psychologists besides Xavier so the only remaining options were Pit or Sinister.[/QUOTE]
Emma is a therapist
[QUOTE=Rang10;5470284]
Emma is a therapist[/QUOTE]
Jean too as well as Dani Moonstar
[QUOTE=Triniking1234;5470167]Apparently the X-Men don't have any other psychologists besides Xavier so the only remaining options were Pit or Sinister.[/QUOTE]
None of the characters were going to the Pits. They hadnt committed any of the high crimes under Krakoan Law
[QUOTE=Rang10;5470284]Emma is a therapist[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Havok83;5470315]Jean too as well as Dani Moonstar[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.
[QUOTE=Zelena;5470472]I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.[/QUOTE]
Maybe not in the US, but they are on Krakoa and can say and be whatever they want. Their powers allow them to function as therapists and its established that its a role that they fufill on the island
[QUOTE=Zelena;5470472]I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.[/QUOTE]
I see. Tell me about your mother.
[QUOTE=Havok83;5470534]Maybe not in the US, but they are on Krakoa and can say and be whatever they want. Their powers allow them to function as therapists and its established that its a role that they fufill on the island[/QUOTE]
I would never go to a telepath for therapy.
It would be interesting to see a character like Dr Samson on Krakoa, someone dedicated to therapy just like Dr Reyes is in her camp.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5470589]I would never go to a telepath for therapy.[/QUOTE]
I agree a telepath is not always ideal for everybody in need of therapy.
I could see Jean but Emma and Charles have shown their style to be too invasive and imposing sometimes.
[QUOTE=Zelena;5470472]I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.[/QUOTE]
Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma
[QUOTE=Rang10;5470628]Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma[/QUOTE]
She also helped Betsy with hers. At leas one of the data pages talked about the TP working to help the resurrected assimilate but I cant recall where that was from
[QUOTE=Journey;5469896]Again they can't call themselves "gods" & .? when their getting offed by regular humans whom are ants when compared to gods, some puny gods 8f that's the case, in particular 1 of their elite omega levels "meant to be protected at all cost" stays getting owned by humans that was a clown quote from Mags.[/QUOTE]
I reeeeally don't think he was being totally earnest. Not sure why every body do BH about it. Humans worship athletes/celebrities who either sing/act better then general population or in the case of athletes run, jump, etc better than most. Many mutants surpass the avg human in physicality alone + many have Abilities on par with bring ancient humans worshipped. Considering this was the Mutants 'coming out' There was A need to let huMans know what DaFuq was up.
Also Godhood doesn't mean you can't get bested by anyone (why would Thor need rest of Avengers)?or that lowly humans can't stand against you.
Storm beat Wonder Woman and Thor...2Gods
Jesus was killed by reg humans.
One aspect Most God's share...the ability to transcend Death. Which the Mutants can do sooo...
[QUOTE=Nazrel;5469946]It was started by a sentient mind controlling bacteria from the dawn of time.[/QUOTE]
Yeah SuBlime set everything in motion but it was humanity's barbarity that made the Weapons+ program what it is....
[QUOTE=Grunty;5469959]Didn't Mister Sinister perform leathal experiments on mutants ever since the 1800's?
Though talking about him. I'm not sure if it predates or happend somewhat after Weapon Plus started, but there was also the Black Womb project during WWII, which involved researching mutants and involved Amanda Mueller, Mister Sinister, Destiny and Cain Marko's and Charles Xavier's fathers.
Though if we want to go further back regarding mutants and base humans doing horrible things to one another, there are the wars Apocalypse waged and what ever Selene was up to. Plus it seems there was always a coin toss about ancient mutants on what ever they would become worshiped as gods or killed as monsters (i guess based on their appearance and powers as per usual).[/QUOTE]
Ehhh the practice of abandoning 'strange' kids at birth is as old as human civilization. Even some folks on here would have a hard time blaming the Mutant babies. Apocalypse was a happy and generous kid but his survival of the fittest idealogy was beat into by his surrogate human family then enraged further by Kang and the humans who were in charge of ancient Egypt. Soooo shots fired
[QUOTE=Grunty;5469959][B]Either way. There were conflicts, heroics and villainy going on involving mutants for a long time in the Marvel universe. So yes, all that Magneto did was to drag it into the modern day spotlight, instead of leaving the conflict a shadow society type invisible war.[/B][/QUOTE]
Huh ??Trask had giant purple robots....it woulda been exposed either way
[QUOTE=Grunty;5469627]
With additional retcons of mutant agression and agression against mutants dating back further and further back in history, it becomes really difficult to tell who has thrown the first stone.
[/QUOTE]
Uh Zuut? What did Mutants do to humans to deserve Sentinels? Weapons+? Neverland Ranvhy? Genosha? M-Day?
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5469673]
Personally, I would of liked him being pulled up on that comment or for him just not to have made it.[/QUOTE]Why ? Can't Mutants feel themselves?
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5470600]It would be interesting to see a character like [B]Dr Samson[/B] on Krakoa, someone dedicated to therapy just like Dr Reyes is in her camp.
I could see Jean but Emma and Charles have shown their style to be too invasive and imposing sometimes.[/QUOTE] Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??
[QUOTE=Zelena;5470472]I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.[/QUOTE]
Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5469575]You could argue that things went sideways after Magneto attacked Cape Citadel.[/QUOTE]
The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.
Things turned for the worst when Larry Trask made the M-II Sentinels. Those Sentinels invaded private property, and kidnapped American citizens with zero chill.
[img]https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/xmen57-sentinels.jpg[/img]
[img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/6266ab110b151d4e5dbe9c95f37a93ec/tumblr_inline_n9ufllaLBv1sbqej1.png[/img]
The Sentinels were even on foreign soil hunting mutants. What could have been an act of war was met with indifference.
[img]https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/xmen58-monolith.jpg[/img]
I would blame the Trask family more for creating worldwide public hysteria about mutants than Magneto. Magneto had other public encounters with the Avengers (seeking to recruit Pietro & Wanda back to his side), the FF (teaming up with/betraying Namor), but those ventures ended up blowing up in his face, especially when his own creation Alpha, turned against him during conflict with the Defenders.
After Larry died, the Sentinel threat just escalated. At least with Magneto, other heroes opposed him when the X-Men were not around. The US government was just letting Sentinels attack fellow Americans, just for being mutants. Foreign governments were letting Sentinels enter their sovereign land, and take their own citizens.
The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5470998]Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??[/QUOTE]
You will have to help me there because the last time I read about penance he was getting better from being brainwashed by Moonstone on Thuderbolts and later he worked on Avengers Academy and he was speedball again so I am not sure if Doc Samson was his therapist at some point :) but my point was more about having an individual mutants dedicated to theraphy just like they have Dr Reyes and Healer for their physical wounds, given the state of mind of some mutants as well as some consequences from the ressurrection process it would make sense for them to have a specific group or person for this.
Emma, Jean and Charles all have experience but I guess I have more memories of them using their powers to hurt rather than help and that´s why I see them as invasive :) they also sometimes take some things for granted using their powers without allowing the person to come to their own conclusions and healing so that´s why I think it would be interesting to see a mutant trained and dedicated to therapy even if they are not telepaths themselves.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5470628]Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma[/QUOTE]
Professionals are what they are by their practice and not just by having some “alleged degrees”. It is why it is preferable to be operated by surgeons who are doing a lot of operations than by those who are doing a few.
Emma and the X-men are doing a lot of things but they don’t spend their time healing people. Cecilia Reyes is the only one that looks convincing as a professional.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5470998]Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school[/QUOTE]
I agree. They tinker with what they have while they look down on people that have better qualifications than them. It’s what Doom said to Xavier.
[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;5471251]The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.
Things turned for the worst when Larry Trask made the M-II Sentinels. Those Sentinels invaded private property, and kidnapped American citizens with zero chill.
[img]https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/xmen57-sentinels.jpg[/img]
[img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/6266ab110b151d4e5dbe9c95f37a93ec/tumblr_inline_n9ufllaLBv1sbqej1.png[/img]
The Sentinels were even on foreign soil hunting mutants. What could have been an act of war was met with indifference.
[img]https://50yearoldcomics.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/xmen58-monolith.jpg[/img]
I would blame the Trask family more for creating worldwide public hysteria about mutants than Magneto. Magneto had other public encounters with the Avengers (seeking to recruit Pietro & Wanda back to his side), the FF (teaming up with/betraying Namor), but those ventures ended up blowing up in his face, especially when his own creation Alpha, turned against him during conflict with the Defenders.
After Larry died, the Sentinel threat just escalated. At least with Magneto, other heroes opposed him when the X-Men were not around. The US government was just letting Sentinels attack fellow Americans, just for being mutants. Foreign governments were letting Sentinels enter their sovereign land, and take their own citizens.
The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.[/QUOTE]
Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.
If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.
How many times have mutants attacked mutants? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.
All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.
[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;5471251]The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.
(...)
The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for providing these classic X-men pages. It certainly paints a very grim picture of the world in the marvel comics, at least the X-men side. One much more grimmer than just the constant super villain attacks, because at least those can considered extreme situations by outside reality characters and groups, while these are horrible actions performed by a group which is supposed to mirror something from our reality.
Something the (original US) readers are supposed to trust (albeit not blindly) and have a hand in shaping. The US government.
And that makes it much worse than your run of the mil super villains or extremist groups doing it, because with them you have a balance on both sides of the super powered vs. unpowered spectrum and there is the classic super hero comic willing suspencion of disbelief going on to accept it happening in a mirror of our world.
Also all heros can take actions against them.
But when it's the US government doing these things, it feels much more closer to reality and the hands of non-mutant heros are tied to a degree because they can't openly move against their own government so easily (though the real reason is because of super heros can't constantly interfer in each others stories).
And to make matters worse, the government hostility can only ever come from one side, because mutant nations by the nature of these comics can't exist for long, because unlike the US government, they don't exist in the real world and it's our world reflecting into the super hero comics primarily and defining the status quo.
So no constant stories of mutant governments or officials hunting down normal humans in their own borders or scenes of human rights abuse by them. No that can only ever come from one side.
I guess that's why these stories hit so hard, because they feel too close to home at least thematically. So it's no suprise someone could get the image that hostility primarily comes from the normal human side, because super villains aren't real, governments, hate groups and powerfull corperations are and they tend to be made of non-mutant folks in these comics.
So a mutant super villain killing thousands of people gets disregarded after a while, because it's not reflective of reality, but a government deploying heavy weapons against their own citizen, we have all seen that on TV either currently or historicaly. So those scenes hit harder.
Though personal opinion. That's why i seriously dislike the big purple sentinels in the X-men. Because, as i once mentioned in another topic, they break my willing suspension of disbelief even in a world of super heros, super technology and magic.
Not as general concept, but how they are used and by whom.
Because those aren't machines created by aliens or super villains trying to TAKE OVER THE WORLD or governments to battle giant Kaiju. They are made to hunt human sized people with weapons that could and WILL level entire city blocks, deployed on US soil, to hunt US citizen and they only ever do that.
The US government in this fictional example has access to giant AI controlled heavily armored walking warmachine armed with energy weapons and they only ever deploy them against a small group of people? That makes no sense.
These things should by all accounts have triggered a massive arms race between the various power blocks and they would have been seen deployed in middle east and other regions of conflicts the USA got involved in. Spies would have raced to get the plans for them or governments would have bought them from Trask and build their own.
Not to hunt mutants but to arm their militaries with them. Because this is a super hero piece of technology, which the writers allowed to end in the hands of real world governments and shown getting mass produced.
The Genosha destroying Sentinel alone should have caused a worldwide hysteria and investigation akin to a terrorist organization firing an orbital railgun loaded with fusion warheads on Johannesburg because they were bummed the apartheid government got dissolved.
So it's not like Iron Man's Armory Wars, where the government had a few "prototype" power armor systems, which could be reasoned away as costing a fortune to produce in greater number. No. Sentinels can apparently be produced in massive numbers and the tax payers don't complain?
I'm not reasoning against the visual impact the big purple Sentinels provided to the comics and cartoons of the X-men comic. But the manner in which they were introduced and keep being used just is annoying me.
Especialy because shadowy minority hunting cyborgs/androids make a lot more sense when they are relative human sized like the Prime Sentinels.
Also i think a more reasonable strategy by the US government would have been to keep forming their own mutant teams, filled with people loyal to the state, as controll agencies, which could clash with the X-men in a "controll vs. freedom" thematic.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5470998]I reeeeally don't think he was being totally earnest. Not sure why every body do BH about it. Humans worship athletes/celebrities who either sing/act better then general population or in the case of athletes run, jump, etc better than most. Many mutants surpass the avg human in physicality alone + many have Abilities on par with bring ancient humans worshipped. Considering this was the Mutants 'coming out' There was A need to let huMans know what DaFuq was up.
Also Godhood doesn't mean you can't get bested by anyone (why would Thor need rest of Avengers)?or that lowly humans can't stand against you.
Storm beat Wonder Woman and Thor...2Gods
Jesus was killed by reg humans.
One aspect Most God's share...the ability to transcend Death. Which the Mutants can do sooo...
Yeah SuBlime set everything in motion but it was humanity's barbarity that made the Weapons+ program what it is....
Ehhh the practice of abandoning 'strange' kids at birth is as old as human civilization. Even some folks on here would have a hard time blaming the Mutant babies. Apocalypse was a happy and generous kid but his survival of the fittest idealogy was beat into by his surrogate human family then enraged further by Kang and the humans who were in charge of ancient Egypt. Soooo shots fired
Huh ??Trask had giant purple robots....it woulda been exposed either way
Uh Zuut? What did Mutants do to humans to deserve Sentinels? Weapons+? Neverland Ranvhy? Genosha? M-Day?
Why ? Can't Mutants feel themselves?
Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??
Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school[/QUOTE]
I couldn't really tell if you were making a case for mutants being gods or not. Do you think mutants are now gods?
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471473]
Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying all Mutants are altruistic and rest of humanity is evil. What blame do mutants take for reg humans hatin on them for being born?
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471473]If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.[/QUOTE]...well a lot if not most mutants don't have good family backgrounds I don't think this would be much if an issue
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471473][B]How many times have mutants attacked mutants[/B]? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.[/QUOTE]
[B]And it not be over differing idealogy on how to respond to reg humans persecution? But counting those confrontations prob not often considering even at ore Genosha attacj numbers Mutants would only account for .4 of Earth's population[/B] How Mutants relate to each other has no real relevance in the situation you've presented..
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471473]All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.[/QUOTE]
yeah that's pretty much the plot of DoFP(comics) a
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5471663]I'm not saying all Mutants are altruistic and rest of humanity is evil. What blame do mutants take for reg humans hatin on them for being born?
...well a lot if not most mutants don't have good family backgrounds I don't think this would be much if an issue
[B]And it not be over differing idealogy on how to respond to reg humans persecution? But counting those confrontations prob not often considering even at ore Genosha attacj numbers Mutants would only account for .4 of Earth's population[/B] How Mutants relate to each other has no real relevance in the situation you've presented..
yeah that's pretty much the plot of DoFP(comics) a[/QUOTE]
I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity?
Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die?
It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.
If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics. If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans? So if humanity doesn't fall into that .4 of the population do they ALL get tarred with the same brush?
So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity?
Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die?
[B]It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.[/B]
If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics. If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans? So if humanity doesn't fall into that .4 of the population do they ALL get tarred with the same brush?
So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?[/QUOTE]
As of Hellions #1, its not
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5470600]I agree a telepath is not always ideal for everybody in need of therapy.
I could see Jean but Emma and Charles have shown their style to be too invasive and imposing sometimes.[/QUOTE]
It's not about the person for me, I am just heavily against the overuse of telepathy, as it's always invasive and imposing regardless of that. If ever there was an ability that needed regulation of some kind, it's that.
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity? [/QUOTE]I meean their anger would be justified...but no not really mad per se... Mutants lashing out should be expected tho Do you also blame a minority group because there's racists who hate them?
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die? [/QUOTE] What??? No.
It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.[/QUOTE] Yeah but it's not tho And technically Sinister wasn't a Mutant when he ordered the massacre
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics.[/QUOTE]i think we see enough lol
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans? [/QUOTE]Riot at Xavier's? The other story arcs main villains were John Sublime...his U-Men... Cassandra Nova...none of them Mutants
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471730]So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?[/QUOTE]I don't think the general team of Mutants know about the DoFP nightmare.i meeean humanity can stop producing them that'll work.
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5471473]Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.
If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.
How many times have mutants attacked mutants? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.
All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.[/QUOTE]
My post was to display that mutants had it bad back in the silver age, and things just got worse with time. I don't agree with everything the X-Men are doing on this era, but I understand the need for a recognized mutant nation-state.
IMO, one of the biggest sell-outs is Sebastian Shaw. In addition to participating in the exploitation of Jean Grey/Phoenix, he also had Sentinels. Shaw had the means to uplift his people, but did the exact opposite.
Mutants have been shooting themselves in the foot, in addition to the abuse inflicted by bigoted humans. All branches of collective humanity (baseline humans, superhumans, mutants, Inhumans, enhanced humans, etc.) is fallible.
Hey, it was the Avengers that destroyed those M-II Sentinels. Captain America & Falcon assisted the X-Men against the original secret empire back in the 1970's. The secret empire also targeted mutants. When Cap discovered who the leader of the SE was, and the subsequent suicide, he gave up the shield.
It is up to the creative powers at Marvel to do more team-up stories. I love it when the Marvel Universe feels so connected. I am sure well will see coalitions in the MCU.
Just because other heroes assist mutants does not mean that their particular persecution will end. We see this in real life with empathetic people standing alongside BLM, and taking a stand against the violence AAPI are going through. Haters are gonna hate.