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[QUOTE=TheDeadSpace;5505665]It honestly makes discourse about the X-Men nearly impossible. Having assumptions before engaging in any conversation greatly demeans any chance of being open to opposing opinions or perspectives. For being books that tackle complex concepts, the discussions about them tend to go in one direction a majority of the time and that's a bit unfortunate.[/QUOTE]
Ehhh conversations that lead with or are in the vein of:
'Humans not allowed on KraKoa is racist"
"Mutants wanting their own space from Humans KILLS Xavier's Dream"
"There's no Mutant culture"
"Mutants should meekly continue to exist"
"Decimation only deoowered a few mutants"
"..."
"..."
IMO aren't opposing opinions... they're sloppy attempts to spread false info and force X-Men into a narrative that fits in that posters ulterior ideas
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5505713]Ehhh conversations that lead with or are in the vein of:
'Humans not allowed on KraKoa is racist"
"Mutants wanting their own space from Humans KILLS Xavier's Dream"
"There's no Mutant culture"
"Mutants should meekly continue to exist"
"Decimation only deoowered a few mutants"
"..."
"..."
IMO aren't opposing opinions... they're sloppy attempts to spread false info and force X-Men into a narrative that fits in that posters ulterior ideas[/QUOTE]
I don't think I specified a side/group with my original comment, but yes, a lot of these discussions do tend to go a certain direction more often than not. It's usually an extreme in either direction.
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[QUOTE=Harasar;5505524]Utopia wasn't treated like a nation by other people, it had no status or recognition. I think comparing Utopia, Genosha and Krakoa, is like comparing real world micronation, some small country like Estonia, and a big influential country like China. Their status, influence and treatment is completely different.
And any antagonistic behavior I can remember was based on the fact that they are a strong nation now, other people and heroes can't just ignore them or treat them like in past, because now every mutant have a strong country backing them up. But many super-heroes are portrayed with a lack of respect for this new situation and so they get the bad reaction from X-Men. Like that scene when Dr. Strange teleported to Krakoa to talk with Magik and Cable told him that he has no right to be there. To me, it wasn't because Strange is a human, it was because he trespassed other nation's territory and then handwaved it with "I have more important things to do than play by your rules" behavior. So it is only natural that he wasn't welcomed.
Although I would also like to see some prequel mini-series, or even one-shot, showing more about how exactly Krakoa was established and how various members of the X-Men reacted to it and decided to join it.[/QUOTE]
We're just gonna end up arguing in circles about what constitutes a nation in this context, but I think what's most important is that they all functioned as a sanctuary and fortress for mutants against the rest of the world - except only Utopia was in a situation that [I]demanded[/I] its existence.
X-Men were acting cold or antagonistic to former friends or teammates or associates. Lack of respect? Respect is reciprocal and, beyond a basic level of respect, you can't demand it. You can say for you it wasn't because they're human, but don't they have a straight up law against humans on Krakoa?
I wouldn't hold my breath for that mini-series; Marvel doesn't seem to care about telling that story, forget continuity, and plenty of readers don't seem to care either.
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5505713]Ehhh conversations that lead with or are in the vein of:
'Humans not allowed on KraKoa is racist"
"Mutants wanting their own space from Humans KILLS Xavier's Dream"
"There's no Mutant culture"
"Mutants should meekly continue to exist"
"Decimation only deoowered a few mutants"
"..."
"..."
IMO aren't opposing opinions... they're sloppy attempts to spread false info and force X-Men into a narrative that fits in that posters ulterior ideas[/QUOTE]
I don't think I've seen any serious person trying to push any of these talking points. If we just didn't assume the worst of others maybe we could actually discuss our differences of opinion and who knows, maybe even raise interesting questions to each other?
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5505765]You can say for you it wasn't because they're human, but don't they [B]have a straight up law against humans on Krakoa?[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Er No but there is a law to not to kill them... I wonder if the 616 has laws making it a hate crime to do harm to Mutants??
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5505767]I don't think I've seen any serious person trying to push any of these talking points. If we just didn't assume the worst of others maybe we could actually discuss our differences of opinion and who knows, maybe even raise interesting questions to each other?[/QUOTE]Yeah that'd be nice and I try to see things from a posters differing opinion/interpretation. Unless They're trying push their own biased headcanon As fact I'm chill lol
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[QUOTE=Harasar;5505524]To me, it wasn't because Strange is a human, it was because he trespassed other nation's territory and then handwaved it with "I have more important things to do than play by your rules" behavior. So it is only natural that he wasn't welcomed. [/QUOTE]
It’s not like the X-men didn’t do that all the time: trespassing…
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5505713]'Humans not allowed on KraKoa is racist" [/QUOTE]
Krakoa’s rules treat differently humans and mutants: it’s racist by definition. I don’t know why you consider it open to interpretation.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5505902]It’s not like the X-men didn’t do that all the time: trespassing…[/QUOTE]
Yes, they do, and they are also not welcome there. When Marauders trespassed Brazil and later Russia, or when New Mutants trespassed Karnelia - they weren't welcome there, they were surrounded and attacked by soldiers. The X-Men do the same - protect their nation from unwelcome intruders.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5505904]Krakoa’s rules treat differently humans and mutants: it’s racist by definition. I don’t know why you consider it open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
How do they treat humans differently? They don’t kill them?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the island of Krakoa itself not want any humans to step foot on it? The fact that the land on which they walk has needs and wants is a big difference from other nations. It's not like Europe itself cares who lives there.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5505904]Krakoa’s rules treat differently humans and mutants: it’s racist by definition. I don’t know why you consider it open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Every human allowed on Krakoa is treated normal, How are they racist?
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[QUOTE=Harasar;5505915]Yes, they do, and they are also not welcome there. When Marauders trespassed Brazil and later Russia, or when New Mutants trespassed Karnelia - they weren't welcome there, they were surrounded and attacked by soldiers. The X-Men do the same - protect their nation from unwelcome intruders.[/QUOTE]
lol they were keeping their citizens safe innocent men women and children who were being killed.
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[QUOTE=sunofdarkchild;5505943]Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the island of Krakoa itself not want any humans to step foot on it? The fact that the land on which they walk has needs and wants is a big difference from other nations. It's not like Europe itself cares who lives there.[/QUOTE]
It’s not Krakoa the entity, it’s more of a place mutants know they’re safe. 2 humans already live on Krakoa and many others have been there. I think sometimes the stuff Magneto and Apocalypse say is taken to be how all Krakoan’s feel. At the end of the day the country is giving away, for free*, life saving drugs.
*to receive these drugs you have to recognize Krakoa as a sovereign nation. You can still be an asshole to them, but all you have to do is say sure, you’ve got a country now.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5505904]Krakoa’s rules treat differently humans and mutants: it’s racist by definition. I don’t know why you consider it open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Its trespassing and not prejudice.
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[QUOTE=Vishop;5505999]Its trespassing and not prejudice.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t say it was. The X-men has no room for talking about trespassing: they had this habit to feel above laws… and it is the case for any Marvel’s hero…
It usually doesn’t bother anybody.
