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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5507642]This. They are going to lean in heavily on this aspect in hellfire gala. They are also being super aggressive in this regards with madripoor which will be interesting.[/QUOTE]
Yep, just because I've been talking about my issues with this era doesn't mean that I can't see that there are interesting concepts to explore. This is one of them.
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5507673]Why in the Goddess' name would anyone expect Krakoa to have life-saving medication and not offer it for Global/Political position if in the end that position guarantees a (small) measure of security from persecution and a great deal of power to defend themselves (the real reasons behind the trade-off)?
Why should they be altruistic in their gift-giving? Knowing the value of what they possess, why should they not ask for compensation?
To prove what? That they are the bigger heroes? That they truly care for all of humanity?
They've saved said Humanity countless number of times, at the cost of their lives on a few occasions. But clearly, in the MU that does not count for anything. Because they're still targeted and persecuted as an entire race (not individuals, mind you) by certain governments. Humanity, generally speaking, still does care for them.
Mutant children are being incarcerated and tested on...how can they NOT use every ounce of leverage they have to correct that (one of many) atrocity perpetrated against their innocent?[/QUOTE]
If this is in response to my point, I simply didn't want their action [I]misconstrued [/I] as altruistic or free; it's a political move and one that makes sense.
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[QUOTE=Havok83;5507682]Maybe if they are giving it to a third world country but the US definitely leverages its drug and resources to those where it can make a profit and/or political gain and the same is true in reverse. For example, its not a one way exchange with China and the US[/QUOTE]
Right, I'm not saying that doesn't happen.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5507712]I mean, the usa gouges its medicine against its own citizens. It’s not even a comparison. Krakoa is doing it because they need leverage but they have to appear altruistic given their nature of being “superior” to humans. They don’t want to seem threatening and the medicines are a double edged sword in they accomplish that as well as gives humans a reason to love mutants instead of fear them. Its other national leaders that are the problem as they see krakoa nothing more than a destabilizing force in the world. They are just stuck in the old way of thinking and the mutants have finally adapted to meet that challenge head on.[/QUOTE]
That's another thing though, Krakoa is a destabilizing force and there will be consequences good and bad. Krakoa is literally an overnight country that has made all other countries drop a rank and left itself as the only first world country (along with maybe Wakanda and Latveria)
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5507620]Xavier has good reason to change his personality. You might not like it or agree with it but it makes perfect sense and it works. It also adds a layer of humanity to him as he is not this perfect christ like figure. Which, to be fair, he never really was. In fact, there have been a score of things he has done in the past that make him a crappy figure head. He had a dream that was idealistic but really it was those around him that aspired to that dream that should get the credit as he would abandon that dream whenever the opportunity presented itself. Which it all boiled down to who was writing at the time. Hickman, at least, gives him an aura of mystery and intrigue which he has been sorely lacking.[/QUOTE]
How easy do you think it’s to change a personality? I’m still the person I was ten, twenty years ago. Small modifications there and there but nothing life shattering. People are reluctant to change, even when they should… A change so complete is not convincing. Easier to think that the writer has nothing understood of Xavier’s personality or he doesn’t care.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5507727]Personally anyone who claims mutants not allowing humans into their home is a form of racism is what makes me question them. Are they for open borders? Do they not believe in immigration law? Would they leave all their doors unlocked all the time? I mean if mutants were letting in super powered humans and not baseline humans then they may have a point... but...[/QUOTE]
Laws based on nationality not race.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5507812]How easy do you think it’s to change a personality? I’m still the person I was ten, twenty years ago. Small modifications there and there but nothing life shattering. People are reluctant to change, even when they should… A change so complete is not convincing. Easier to think that the writer has nothing understood of Xavier’s personality or he doesn’t care.[/QUOTE]
I would say you are the exception if you are the same person you were twenty years ago. Most people have changed dramatically whether it be for better or worse. Some have changed religions, realized their sexuality, developed different political beliefs, etc. What makes xavier an extreme case in why he has changed is moira and the fact he was able to absorb the knowledge of her past lives. This would shake anyone to their core and make them second guess every pre-conception they ever had. Not only that, in forming krakoa, he has had to modify his dream to encompass all mutants, instead of a select few who will just blindly follow him. Even before hickman, if you stick with just the 80’s and the claremont era, xavier goes through radical shifts in paradigm. All of the xmen do. This is just how people are. We grow or we regress but we rarely stay the same. Time moves forward and our experiences changes us for better or worse.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5507817]Laws based on nationality not race.[/QUOTE]
krakoan laws are based on nationality.. all mutants on krakoa are krakoan just like citizens of america are american. there are krakoans of all races so the accusation doesn't fit. it would fit more if they let people with powers in despite being human or mutant because it would them show discrimination against a particular branch of humanity.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5507827]I would say you are the exception if you are the same person you were twenty years ago. Most people have changed dramatically whether it be for better or worse. Some have changed religions, realized their sexuality, developed different political beliefs, etc. [B]What makes xavier an extreme case in why he has changed is moira [/B]and the fact he was able to absorb the knowledge of her past lives. This would shake anyone to their core and make them second guess every pre-conception they ever had. Not only that, in forming krakoa, he has had to modify his dream to encompass all mutants, instead of a select few who will just blindly follow him. Even before hickman, if you stick with just the 80’s and the claremont era, xavier goes through radical shifts in paradigm. All of the xmen do. This is just how people are. We grow or we regress but we rarely stay the same. Time moves forward and our experiences changes us for better or worse.[/QUOTE]
I agree that real people change. Fictional characters tend to be a bit more rigid.
Xaviers path was always messy, mostly because it usually came in revelations of things that he had done, possibly contrary to his teachings. That bolded is quite mess all by itself. It requires us to have some notion of Xavier having a dream and everything he has done has been to promote that dream, but according to this he may as well never had the dream because the Xavier we believe we have been reading about was already radicalized, so everything he did was a lie? All those different paths he took were motivated by what? There was always some long game they were playing. But all of those things that changed him over the years, and the one thing he never veered from was the thing that was most distant?
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5507830]krakoan laws are based on nationality.. all mutants on krakoa are krakoan just like citizens of america are american. there are krakoans of all races so the accusation doesn't fit. it would fit more if they let people with powers in despite being human or mutant because it would them show discrimination against a particular branch of humanity.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that humans are allowed to be citizens of Krakoa…
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People seem to forget Xavier has thousand of years of knowledge. If someone keeps blowing up your house and no one does anything, wouldn't you move. If someone kept kidnapping your children and no one did anything wouldn't you find a way to protect them. It seems a lot of the constants people adhere to they don't insert any variable information. It's easy to remain the same person for 30 or 40 years when you aren't being attacked whenever you find a semblance of peace. Wouldn't you create a safe place for yourself if there was no other safe place for you in the world. It seems a lot of the arguments lack logic and are all "this is what i feel, and this is what i'm use to" but there is no substance to it, everything links back to but this is what they use to be like. "ok?"" You saw over 50 years of what led them to the decision, they remember all of it, so go back and read the issues, should it be repackaged every time someone is telling a story. What more reason does one need to see Xavier had enough and so have mutants. Just read rosenburg crappy runs that shows when ever mutants are down they will be attacked so humans will keep them down until they can get rid of them.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5507849]I don’t think that humans are allowed to be citizens of Krakoa…[/QUOTE]
And mutants are humans so that is an untruth in itself. Though there are laws in the main mu that restrict super powered people. By that logic the main mu is racist and it's heroes support racism every time they want to create a law that impedes on the rights of their powered individuals.
And where are the bans on tech as well. Tchalla, Val, Reed, Doom, Tony Stark, all humans, are far more dangerous than 90% of the mutant population. I would be more scared of them and other smart humans in the marvel world than mutants. Why aren't human ever targeted by these "protection" laws.
Heck thinking about it, Val is so dangerous she created a forever gate that anyone, from anytime, any dimension, and world, can just waltz through and attack earth.
another edit because my mind thought more. lol. I wonder if it would be more acceptable if Xavier was playing a more sinister game. Like a good lawyer could totally rip some of these marvel laws apart. Like when you say super powered what do you mean. I could make the argument someone who has a high intellect is super powered, or someone who ran run 10 mph faster than such and such. They could be playing the propaganda game and ruining lives while advancing their own agenda. A singer who can hit "out of these world notes" she must be powered. Unless specifically it says x-gene somewhere in there.
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Why would Krakoa be expected to just open their borders for everyone/anyone? Especially given the animousity towards mutants?
Like any real-world nation...a human/person cannot just show up and announce they want to be a citizen.
That said...
Humans are allowed. As set by the precedent of Jean-Paul's husband Kyle.
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Is there a central theme going on in Hickman's X-books. I know he gives individual writers free reign and he had more complete control in previous storylines. He basically wrote all the FF and Avengers stuff but is there a theme. Hindsight looking back everything in Avengers and even further back Fantastic Four led directly into Secret War. There was a plan to it. I am buying most of but not currently caught up with most of the X-titles right now do you sense a central plan going on? The Gala is a big event tie in to everything but is this whole thing going somewhere or is Hickman just basically doing X-men and everyone else is doing there books? Is there like a semi-annual summit to make sure storylines don't contradict but otherwise free rein or is it, do what you want but you need to be at this point in one year because A,B,C & D.
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[quote]And where are the bans on tech as well. Tchalla, Val, Reed, Doom, Tony Stark, all humans, are far more dangerous than 90% of the mutant population. I would be more scared of them and other smart humans in the marvel world than mutants. [B]Why aren't human ever targeted by these "protection" laws.[/B][/quote]
[IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91KTnpad58L.jpg[/IMG]
Or for something more recent
[IMG]https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/9/90/5e67bec259a51/clean.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5508243][IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91KTnpad58L.jpg[/IMG]
Or for something more recent
[IMG]https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/9/90/5e67bec259a51/clean.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Those are both still targeting super powered individuals. Where are the laws to stop the baseline geniuses that can create novissimo, or grenades that can stun whole blocks, or can create serums to poison people or radioactive spiders to bite people and turn them into spiders. Where are the laws regulating them. Why can't an average everyday, normal IQ person feel safe. W hat if i walk in an alley one night and am turned into the hulk by another human.
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The only baseline genius in 616 was the guy who made Punisher's stuff. ;)
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[QUOTE=Triniking1234;5508279]The only baseline genius in 616 was the guy who made Punisher's stuff. ;)[/QUOTE]
I just don't understand why Johnny Bravo can't be safe in the marvel universe. Where are the laws? Now that mutants are off the map for testing that makes characters like him prime real estate but they too busy going after the chillin'. When is it going to stop.
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[QUOTE=EmeraldGladiator;5508161]Is there a central theme going on in Hickman's X-books. I know he gives individual writers free reign and he had more complete control in previous storylines. He basically wrote all the FF and Avengers stuff but is there a theme. Hindsight looking back everything in Avengers and even further back Fantastic Four led directly into Secret War. There was a plan to it. I am buying most of but not currently caught up with most of the X-titles right now do you sense a central plan going on? The Gala is a big event tie in to everything but is this whole thing going somewhere or is Hickman just basically doing X-men and everyone else is doing there books? Is there like a semi-annual summit to make sure storylines don't contradict but otherwise free rein or is it, do what you want but you need to be at this point in one year because A,B,C & D.[/QUOTE]
The writers are always comunicating via Zoom.
each writer is doing their own issues of the gala event
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I'm bored with the Hickman era of X-Men. The characters don't seem like they have teh same kind of personality that they used to have. They're very flat, that cardboard cut outs.
I'm not a fan of the Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine open relationship either. It seems like it emasculates Cyclops to me and Jean comes off selffish like she just using Cyclops and Wolverine.
I hate the old Marvel girl costume.
And my biggest beef is who are the villians? Vampires, the Russians, little kids and a group of old ladies. If heros are only as good as their villians maybe this is why the X-Men suck now.
The whole X-Men part of the Marvel universe is very bland.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5507849]I don’t think that humans are allowed to be citizens of Krakoa…[/QUOTE]
Hard to say.
Some, like Kyle, Northstar's husband, clearly live on the island full-time (although he's said to take a Krakoan gate to 'commute' to work, elsewhere).
Is he a citizen? On a sort of guest-visa? Who knows. Does Krakoa even have visas or passports or official citizenship records? When you visit, does some Krakoan stamp your passport? When a Krakoan officially visits another country, does their passport get stamped? (Officially visit, as in, actually bother to check in like a citizen of any other country and not just teleport or fly in and do whatever the hell they want and then just leave, as if they somehow owned the entire planet.)
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;5508484]Hard to say.
Some, like Kyle, Northstar's husband, clearly live on the island full-time (although he's said to take a Krakoan gate to 'commute' to work, elsewhere).
Is he a citizen? On a sort of guest-visa? Who knows. Does Krakoa even have visas or passports or official citizenship records? When you visit, does some Krakoan stamp your passport? When a Krakoan officially visits another country, does their passport get stamped? (Officially visit, as in, actually bother to check in like a citizen of any other country and not just teleport or fly in and do whatever the hell they want and then just leave, as if they somehow owned the entire planet.)[/QUOTE]
Only humans invited my mutants and in company of mutants can enter. So I think a visa is not needed, it is a very exclusive club.
Mutants can go to every country alligned with krakoa, there is a lot of gates to have control of passports. Mutants are shown to enter freely any country
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;5508484]Hard to say.
Some, like Kyle, Northstar's husband, clearly live on the island full-time (although he's said to take a Krakoan gate to 'commute' to work, elsewhere).
Is he a citizen? On a sort of guest-visa? Who knows. Does Krakoa even have visas or passports or official citizenship records? When you visit, does some Krakoan stamp your passport? When a Krakoan officially visits another country, does their passport get stamped? (Officially visit, as in, actually bother to check in like a citizen of any other country and not just teleport or fly in and do whatever the hell they want and then just leave, as if they somehow owned the entire planet.)[/QUOTE]
Krakoa doesnt need a visa/passport bc they dont operate as a traditional country. Access to Krakoa is monitored by Saga who oversees the gates. Her powers allow her to keep track of who has access and has used them to enter/exit the country, which effectively replaces the need for a passport.
Considering the fact that humans can not use the gates without being accompanied by a mutant, its fairly easy to be accountable for the non-citizens on the island
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[QUOTE=RedMenace;5508387]
And my biggest beef is who are the villians? Vampires, the Russians, little kids and a group of old ladies. If heros are only as good as their villians maybe this is why the X-Men suck now.
The whole X-Men part of the Marvel universe is very bland.[/QUOTE]
Where did Magneto, Mystique, Exodus, Shaw, Shadow King, Mr. Sinister go? The "bad guys" are still bad guys. The bad guys aren't the "antagonist" in every story they are in now. There is nothing more bland Good vs Evil. It is interesting that X-characters have to interact with Mr. Sinister on a regular basis.
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[QUOTE=RedMenace;5508387]
I'm not a fan of the Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine open relationship either. It seems like it emasculates Cyclops to me and [B]Jean comes off selffish like she just using Cyclops and Wolverine.[/B] [/QUOTE]
Both of them seem plenty happy to me. In fact they're even getting along after being at each others throats for years.
[QUOTE=RedMenace;5508387] The whole X-Men part of the Marvel universe is very bland.[/QUOTE]
Nah there's just too much flavor and y'all can't handle it :p. Kidding you're free to like or dislike whatever you want.
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It seemed like with HoX it was off to a strong start & I really wondered WTF was going to happen... and it's ultimately been a whole bunch of nothing & I don't care at all. It's essentially the Utopia era all over again. Remember how every X-Men evah(!) was going to be there & would be used? Well here they are as panel wallpaper...again! Remember how this was going to be a brand new era like nothing before & enough of the doom/gloom? Well here's a bunch of shit nobody cares about while we buy time to make the X-Men hated/feared again! Oh? More new characters? [I]Greaaaat[/I]
With the fandom it's also devolved very quickly into the tried & true: 1) Jean, Jean, Jean, why isn't Jean MORE important? Why do the writers HATE Jean? 2) Why isn't character XYZ that's already in a book not in 5 MORE books?! 3) Why isn't this mutant that made a 3 panel appearance in the teen X-book nobody read a decade ago not a main X-Man yet?!
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[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5508590]Both of them seem plenty happy to me. In fact they're even getting along after being at each others throats for years.
[/QUOTE]
None of it is true. Logan and Scott has been fine with each toher for years, this false narrative has to stop. And also Scott didn't looked any happy with seeing jean talking with Wolverine, so this is very disputed
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508651]None of it is true. Logan and Scott has been fine with each toher for years, this false narrative has to stop. And also Scott didn't looked any happy with seeing jean talking with Wolverine, so this is very disputed[/QUOTE]
What false narrative? Maybe they made up in Rosenberg’s run (I didn’t read it), but during Bendis’ run Wolverine literally lunged at Teen Scott without hesitation. Besides that they’d both been dead for a couple years.
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508651]None of it is true. Logan and Scott has been fine with each toher for years, this false narrative has to stop. And also Scott didn't looked any happy with seeing jean talking with Wolverine, so this is very disputed[/QUOTE]
When? Scott and Logan spent the better part of the era before they both died fighting and hating on each other. They became teammates again 6 months before HOX, so its false to claim that they've been fine for years unless you are counting the current era which has them on better terms
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5508725]What false narrative? Maybe they made up in Rosenberg’s run (I didn’t read it), but during Bendis’ run Wolverine literally lunged at Teen Scott without hesitation. Besides that they’d both been dead for a couple years.[/QUOTE]
Rosenberg wrote them with a bit of animosity (more Logan towards Scott). Both let the beef die bc they had bigger fish to fry. I wouldnt call them close at all in that run but they got to a point where they could be teammates without fighting. Just a few digs here and there
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[QUOTE=Havok83;5508738]When? Scott and Logan spent the better part of the era before they both died fighting and hating on each other. They became teammates again 6 months before HOX, so its false to claim that they've been fine for years unless you are counting the current era which has them on better terms
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5508725]What false narrative? Maybe they made up in Rosenberg’s run (I didn’t read it), but during Bendis’ run Wolverine literally lunged at Teen Scott without hesitation. Besides that they’d both been dead for a couple years.[/QUOTE]
That was because of schism, that was a philosophical and ethical dilemma, Jean was long dead when it happened. Even read the books?
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[QUOTE=Havok83;5508738]When? Scott and Logan spent the better part of the era before they both died fighting and hating on each other. They became teammates again 6 months before HOX, so its false to claim that they've been fine for years unless you are counting the current era which has them on better terms
Rosenberg wrote them with a bit of animosity (more Logan towards Scott). Both let the beef die bc they had bigger fish to fry. I wouldnt call them close at all in that run but they got to a point where they could be teammates without fighting. Just a few digs here and there[/QUOTE]
From what I've witnessed in this era watching their interactions, this poly thing is just one in a hundred power kegs waiting to explode. If you've been paying attention to Scott's reaction when Jean and Logan are interacting, it speaks a lot more than that moment with 2 guys chilling trying to make this weird poly crap less awkward during the Crucible event. I've been seeing Jean give favorable treatment to Logan for the longest time and it looks like this whole thing is on Jean's terms than fully consensual or else Scott wouldn't be trying to be a wallflower.
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[QUOTE=SiycoBatSquirrel;5508750]From what I've witnessed in this era watching their interactions, this poly thing is just one in a hundred power kegs waiting to explode. If you've been paying attention to Scott's reaction when Jean and Logan are interacting, it speaks a lot more than that moment with 2 guys chilling trying to make this weird poly crap less awkward during the Crucible event. I've been seeing Jean give favorable treatment to Logan for the longest time and it looks like this whole thing is on Jean's terms than fully consensual or else Scott wouldn't be trying to be a wallflower.[/QUOTE]
Jean initiative? this would be bullshit from the writers, unfortunaly it is very established how she only had eyes for Scott before hoxpox.
This shouldn't be taken seriously, they will never get answers for this. It's just cheap way for trying to sell books on polemic that failed so badly
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508748]That was because of schism, that was a philosophical and ethical dilemma, Jean was long dead when it happened. Even read the books?[/QUOTE]
First of all calm down. Your need to constantly try to put other people down is getting old.
Second, I literally just said that they were at each other’s throats and now they’re getting along better. I didn’t say they were at each other’s throats because of Jean and I am WELL aware of schism.
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508748]That was because of schism, that was a philosophical and ethical dilemma, Jean was long dead when it happened. Even read the books?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? Yes Scott nad Logan were at odds after Schism. They were fighting for years and we did not get them on the same page until 2019 during Rosenberg's run and Hickman's. You are acting like they had stopped fighting for years when thats not true. The false narrative is what you are writing
[QUOTE=SiycoBatSquirrel;5508750]From what I've witnessed in this era watching their interactions, this poly thing is just one in a hundred power kegs waiting to explode. If you've been paying attention to Scott's reaction when Jean and Logan are interacting, it speaks a lot more than that moment with 2 guys chilling trying to make this weird poly crap less awkward during the Crucible event. I've been seeing Jean give favorable treatment to Logan for the longest time and it looks like this whole thing is on Jean's terms than fully consensual or else Scott wouldn't be trying to be a wallflower.[/QUOTE]
I dont see Logan getting favorable treatment. If anything he is a side dude. Scott is her husband and where her heart lies. I think its been clear that they are a unit and love is shared between them. I see no romantic love with Logan and all we've seen so far is an attraction thats sexual and it ends there
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508755]Jean initiative? this would be bullshit from the writers, unfortunately it is very established how she only had eyes for Scott before hoxpox.
This shouldn't be taken seriously, they will never get answers for this. It's just cheap way for trying to sell books on polemic that failed so badly[/QUOTE]
I'm only speaking on what the panels imply and say, not what I think the writer's intentions are, and it wouldn't be surprising for the writers to pull the curtain over and restart the shipping drama again for cheap and quick book sales cause unfortunately, this is what Jean is reduced to when the Phoenix is no longer in the picture...the pretty and perfect Mary Sue love interest of two guys fighting for her attention.
Hard not to be at least suspect when everything else in this era is likely to go wrong sooner or later when Fall of X comes out.
If this is what Jean is worth when alive, she'd be better off dead until some brave writer decides to say **** it and have Jean divorce Scott and ditch Logan and go solo to find herself when the X-Men and Phoenix aren't in the picture. However, I feel its "too woke" for Hickman and the rest of the writers to go this route.
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[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5508766]First of all calm down. Your need to constantly try to put other people down is getting old.
Second, I literally just said that they were at each other’s throats and now they’re getting along better. I didn’t say they were at each other’s throats because of Jean and I am WELL aware of schism.[/QUOTE]
They got along just fine before it, but it is wrong use a crap story to justify other crap story
[QUOTE=SiycoBatSquirrel;5508780]I'm only speaking on what the panels imply and say, not what the writers are thinking, and it wouldn't be surprising for the writers to pull the curtain over and restart the shipping drama again for cheap and quick book sales cause unfortunately, this is what Jean is reduced to when the Phoenix is no longer in the picture...the pretty and perfect Mary Sue love interest of two guys fighting for her attention. If this is what Jean is worth when alive, she'd be better off dead until some brave writer decides to say **** it, divorce Scott and ditch Logan and go solo to find herself when the X-Men and Phoenix aren't in the picture. However, I feel its "too woke" for Hickman and the rest of the writers to go this route.[/QUOTE]
Man! what a perfect post you just wrote.
X-men writers are always afraid of Jean getting power and eclipsing the male characters, it started with Byrne and continues with Hickman
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5508781] Man! what a perfect post you just wrote.
X-men writers are always afraid of Jean getting power and eclipsing the male characters, it started with Byrne and continues with Hickman[/QUOTE]
Jean already has power. What Jean severely lacks is agency and independence and strength of character to interact with the world without the Phoenix, Logan, Scott or the X-Men holding her hand.
If they can do it with Harley Quinn, its possibly for Jean too.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5507859]And mutants are humans so that is an untruth in itself. Though there are laws in the main mu that restrict super powered people. By that logic the main mu is racist and it's heroes support racism every time they want to create a law that impedes on the rights of their powered individuals.
And where are the bans on tech as well. Tchalla, Val, Reed, Doom, Tony Stark, all humans, are far more dangerous than 90% of the mutant population. I would be more scared of them and other smart humans in the marvel world than mutants. Why aren't human ever targeted by these "protection" laws.
Heck thinking about it, Val is so dangerous she created a forever gate that anyone, from anytime, any dimension, and world, can just waltz through and attack earth.
another edit because my mind thought more. lol. I wonder if it would be more acceptable if Xavier was playing a more sinister game. Like a good lawyer could totally rip some of these marvel laws apart. Like when you say super powered what do you mean. I could make the argument someone who has a high intellect is super powered, or someone who ran run 10 mph faster than such and such. They could be playing the propaganda game and ruining lives while advancing their own agenda. A singer who can hit "out of these world notes" she must be powered. Unless specifically it says x-gene somewhere in there.[/QUOTE]
I just don't think we'll get anywhere if we continue to box the X-Men into a minority only category. The idea that superpowered people need some regulation or framework shouldn't necessarily be a bad one - unfortunately Marvel decided that it was. I'm not even saying that the government needs to be involved, but it shouldn't be controversial to say that people, mutants and humans alike, with dangerous powers might need some outside help.
They might be more dangerous than 90% of the mutant population but then 1% (if not less) of mutants are more dangerous than all of them put together, considering there are numerous planet-busters among them. And think about that statement, those humans still have to learn, build, apply experience, a mutant can just be born with the power to destroy the planet. Why won't the Pro-Krakoa posters contend with this?
I have no context for what Val did, isn't she a child? How was she allowed to do that?
Exceptional or gifted people wouldn't qualify as superpowered in a world where puberty sometimes comes with telepathy.
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[QUOTE=Killerbee911;5508575]Where did Magneto, Mystique, Exodus, Shaw, Shadow King, Mr. Sinister go? The "bad guys" are still bad guys. The bad guys aren't the "antagonist" in every story they are in now. There is nothing more bland Good vs Evil. It is interesting that X-characters have to interact with Mr. Sinister on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
Good vs Evil isn't bland, you just gotta find the good stuff. Besides, we've had years of morally ambiguous protagonists now.
Besides, [B]RedMenace[/B]'s point still stands: we went from Magneto, Mystique, Sinister, Apocalypse to vampires, Europeans, robots, children, and old women. The caliber has dropped, no need to pretend otherwise.
And it would be interesting if anyone behaved like they should - why are the Summers' not attacking Sinister?
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Any particular reason why we're pretending Rosenberg's run wasn't this hugeass Scogan romance until Jean showed up, lol? What, it ruins the victim narrative or something?
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5508807]Good vs Evil isn't bland, you just gotta find the good stuff. Besides, we've had years of morally ambiguous protagonists now.
Besides, [B]RedMenace[/B]'s point still stands: we went from Magneto, Mystique, Sinister, Apocalypse to vampires, Europeans, robots, children, and old women. The caliber has dropped, no need to pretend otherwise.
And it would be interesting if anyone behaved like they should - why are the Summers' not attacking Sinister?[/QUOTE]
Yep and it's looking more and more that the mutants' biggest enemy is themselves by this point and the rest seem more like a convenient distraction to avoid Krakoa's problems.
As far as I'm concerned, mostly everyone is a clone by this point and its why they are acting OOC, as the more one dies and gets resurrected, the more removed from the original personality and memories they get.
We just had Quire go from an anti-human punk with a god complex pretending to be a hero.....to an anti-hero trying to be a legit hero whose personality is removed enough to actually get a gf who isnt batshit crazy and this guy got the protocol over a 1000 times. I've taken to calling him Q1000 for now.
