-
[QUOTE=RamaBird;5458654]The original Phoenix Sage took around 3 years to tell. Today's audience would deem that story a failure because it's taking too long to get to the big reveals. Lots of readers expect a shocking action packed reveal every other issue. And when they do get that, then they'll complain nonstop about recons, cheap stunts and writing with no depth.[/QUOTE]
See, but in Claremont's storytelling, each issue had fun moments, character relationships, growth, change, etc, etc. The story developed [I]organically,[/I] and while there were larger plots at play, each individual issue was satisfying in its own regard. Hickman's individual issues often ring hollow, because he's more interested in his overarching plot, and will just do whatever to plant a flag that will be a piece of the puzzle, but alone is somewhat abstract. He's so focused on the destination, he forgets to relish in the actual journey. Compare Claremont's first 30 or so issues to Hickmans'(HOX/POX+X-Men1-18).
-
[QUOTE=Rang10;5458696]Well it plays straight into white supremacy discourse hat when minorities get power, they gonna go after white people. it is a true disservice to minorities[/QUOTE]
When did X-Men go after the humans and kicked them while they are down? Did I miss some comix in the meantime where that happens?
-
[QUOTE=Rang10;5458696]Yes, they weren't mean to mirror minorities. But Hickman and many fans are using it as justificative for them acting as villains now. A lot of criticism was met with "they are aminority, you are just afraid of minorities getting power", it has been used a shield to not address [B]x-men acting out of character[/B]
[/QUOTE]
That right there! I am a minority, I am Puerto Rican. I have no problem with them making their own country, I’m not even upset that there are villains openly welcomed on the island. What I don’t like is how everyone is just fine and dandy with EVERYTHING. There are several character’s who should be at least feeling iffy about some things. It’s like they’re all from Stepford!
I have a problem with this small group of people speaking on behalf of everyone like them and saying that “These people will be ours and subjected to all our laws without agreeing to it” and everyone just rolling with it. This had the potential for other political POVs in the Marvel (or at least X-Men) universe. Realistically (and trying to apply it to a comic), there is NO WAY everyone is just gonna agree. I wanted to see some mutants openly protesting it. Even while some may agree with Krakoa perhaps being needed, Krakoa doesn’t speak for everyone. Like who the hell do these people think they are speaking on behalf of everyone. Y’know? I get so peeved when I see people, “Speaking on behalf of all Puerto Rican’s”... get out here, who do you think you are?
That’s not even just talking about the creepy behavior on the island itself. These people are messing with DNA and intentionally bringing people back disfigured. But everyone on the island is okay with that. Like really? Nobody, on the island feels a little uncomfortable? Has there been an instance of someone [B]completely[/B] upset they were bought back? Even if they didn’t kill themselves? And the fact that the Crucible was even a thing! Really? [SIZE=1]Really?[/SIZE]
And I have been blatantly sidestepping certain characters and powers, BUT I am not not getting into that! That is TOTALLY different rant.
-
[QUOTE=Rufio;5458896]That right there! I am a minority, I am Puerto Rican. I have no problem with them making their own country, I’m not even upset that there are villains openly welcomed on the island. What I don’t like is how everyone is just fine and dandy with EVERYTHING. There are several character’s who should be at least feeling iffy about some things. It’s like they’re all from Stepford!
I have a problem with this small group of people speaking on behalf of everyone like them and saying that “These people will be ours and subjected to all our laws without agreeing to it” and everyone just rolling with it. This had the potential for other political POVs in the Marvel (or at least X-Men) universe. Realistically (and trying to apply it to a comic), there is NO WAY everyone is just gonna agree. I wanted to see some mutants openly protesting it. Even while some may agree with Krakoa perhaps being needed, Krakoa doesn’t speak for everyone. Like who the hell do these people think they are speaking on behalf of everyone. Y’know? I get so peeved when I see people, “Speaking on behalf of all Puerto Rican’s”... get out here, who do you think you are?
That’s not even just talking about the creepy behavior on the island itself. These people are messing with DNA and intentionally bringing people back disfigured. But everyone on the island is okay with that. Like really? Nobody, on the island feels a little uncomfortable? Has there been an instance of someone [B]completely[/B] upset they were bought back? Even if they didn’t kill themselves? And the fact that the Crucible was even a thing! Really? [SIZE=1]Really?[/SIZE]
And I have been blatantly sidestepping certain characters and powers, BUT I am not not getting into that! That is TOTALLY different rant.[/QUOTE]
I suspect that is, or at least will be, a plot point. To me, there's a whole underlying vibe that "something is wrong with the way these characters are acting." Established attitudes, interpersonal relationships, and other behaviors all seem "off." I HOPE that it will be explained and suspect Hickman has a plan to address it as part of his overall arc. For example, is Professor X or someone else messing with minds on a huge scale in order to get the outcome he wants? Have the X-Men been altered in some way that has yet to be revealed?
If they just end this Hickman-era status quo without explaining it, though? Yes, then I agree that'd be a total failure.
-
People were fine with the inhumans taking over countries and forcibly changing humans into inhumans or dying in the process in the main MU, and the avengers and everyone else just fell in line while it while it was polluting the earth and x-fans were expected to deal with it. At the very least Hickman doesn't have to tear down one part of the MU to make another look interesting.
-
[QUOTE=Exciter;5458914]I suspect that is, or at least will be, a plot point. To me, there's a whole underlying vibe that "something is wrong with the way these characters are acting." Established attitudes, interpersonal relationships, and other behaviors all seem "off." I HOPE that it will be explained and suspect Hickman has a plan to address it as part of his overall arc. For example, is Professor X or someone else messing with minds on a huge scale in order to get the outcome he wants? Have the X-Men been altered in some way that has yet to be revealed?
If they just end this Hickman-era status quo without explaining it, though? Yes, then I agree that'd be a total failure.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t Way of X going to address some of the weird stuff going on in Krakoa? I get the frustration, but I feel like answers are coming.
-
[QUOTE=yogaflame;5458716]See, but in Claremont's storytelling, each issue had fun moments, character relationships, growth, change, etc, etc. The story developed [I]organically,[/I] and while there were larger plots at play, each individual issue was satisfying in its own regard. Hickman's individual issues often ring hollow, because he's more interested in his overarching plot, and will just do whatever to plant a flag that will be a piece of the puzzle, but alone is somewhat abstract. He's so focused on the destination, he forgets to relish in the actual journey. Compare Claremont's first 30 or so issues to Hickmans'(HOX/POX+X-Men1-18).[/QUOTE]
Agreed, that Hickman is not very good at individual issues. I don't think it's fair to compare the length of issues in terms of quality though. Hickman's quality dropped after HOX/POX, but that has to do with editorial wanting to drag the story out. Claremont didn't have to worry so much about having all other X-franchises coming back into focus as well. Claremont's quality dropped a lot too when he had to play by editorial rules. Both Claremont and Hickman, IMO, are better architects than story tellers but we need these sort of architects to even begin with. Lots of the past years of storylines sucked cause there was no end goal, there was no architect.
-
[QUOTE=zvrk;5458682]My thinking is that maybe readers are offended that mutants won't hang out with humans anymore, and took that emotionally like [B][U]they don't wanna be friends with us anymore. Period[/U][/B]. And that hurt, I presume, since readers have feelings and took this personal. Which to me is mindboggling. It's fiction... never was, never will be real world, never will cross over in real world.[/QUOTE]
The X-men were friends with everyone: humans, aliens… They were nice with everyone who shared the same values that were important to them.
You don’t have the same people if, you are all right, good or bad, as long as you are a mutant like me.
-
[QUOTE=RamaBird;5458938]Agreed, that Hickman is not very good at individual issues. I don't think it's fair to compare the length of issues in terms of quality though. Hickman's quality dropped after HOX/POX, but that has to do with editorial wanting to drag the story out. Claremont didn't have to worry so much about having all other X-franchises coming back into focus as well. Claremont's quality dropped a lot too when he had to play by editorial rules. Both Claremont and Hickman, IMO, are better architects than story tellers but we need these sort of architects to even begin with. Lots of the past years of storylines sucked cause there was no end goal, there was no architect.[/QUOTE]
Hickman has total freedom, it is his choice to drag out the stories.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5458937]Isn’t Way of X going to address some of the weird stuff going on in Krakoa? I get the frustration, but I feel like answers are coming.[/QUOTE]
I dont think they gonna answer everything, just address a new villain and spirituality.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5458915]People were fine with the inhumans taking over countries and forcibly changing humans into inhumans or dying in the process in the main MU, and the avengers and everyone else just fell in line while it while it was polluting the earth and x-fans were expected to deal with it. At the very least Hickman doesn't have to tear down one part of the MU to make another look interesting.[/QUOTE]
Inhumans never took over any country. The decision for releasing the mist were only one by Black Bolt and he was cast away after that.
-
[QUOTE=Exciter;5458914]I suspect that is, or at least will be, a plot point. To me, there's a whole underlying vibe that "something is wrong with the way these characters are acting." Established attitudes, interpersonal relationships, and other behaviors all seem "off." I HOPE that it will be explained and suspect Hickman has a plan to address it as part of his overall arc. For example, is Professor X or someone else messing with minds on a huge scale in order to get the outcome he wants? Have the X-Men been altered in some way that has yet to be revealed?
If they just end this Hickman-era status quo without explaining it, though? Yes, then I agree that'd be a total failure.[/QUOTE]
I hope so! It would make me so happy to see that it was indeed a plot point. I would look back at everything is a new light, all “Oh hoooo” and I’d even go back to the beginning! Except Brisson’s run. We won’t speak of that.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5458937]Isn’t Way of X going to address some of the weird stuff going on in Krakoa? I get the frustration, but I feel like answers are coming.[/QUOTE]
I’m not going to lie, I am interested in this to see where it goes. I also want to see exactly what is addressed. Overall, I do hope it is a great book, since I really like the books I have read that Spurrier has written. Plus it would be a shame if he writes this story that explains some things and everyone just goes, “Nah, f that.” I get that the X-Office is more interconnected now, but it is still my worry.
-
I have been an xmen fan since the early 90’s. For me, the xmen have been hit or miss over the years. Overall, i enjoyed most all of it but the quality was not as consistent to me as when the xmen just had one writer for ten years straight. As far as hickman’s writing for the xmen, i would qualify it as god tier. Hell, i might even like his stuff more than claremont if reign of x and how the conclusion of his run ends well. I think there are a bit too many xbooks for my liking, but i love most all the books that are out currently. I also really enjoy xmen, maruaders, and excalibur. Some of the other books like xforce and hellions i find to be really good too. Now, i know i already lost most of you with saying he is better than claremont and let me say what i mean here for those that stayed. Claremont is also god tier. He had his run though that was most epically known in the 80s. Comics have changed so much since then. For example, i am not the biggest grant morrison fan, however i will be the first to admit he transfered the xmen over to the new century in a way other writers had failed to do. Imo morrison did not really hold onto most of the claremont stuff while he wrote his stuff but then again he did not retcon it either so that was awesome. Hickman is doing both. He is pushing the xmen forward with new ideas (krakoa, resurrection, multiple timelines where the xmen fail, etc.). He also has pulled so much out the box in regards to classic xmen. We literally have access to any old mutant from back in the day, dead or not. I know some people dont like resurrection but for me it pushes the xmen forward in a brand new way. Krakoa and the idea that all mutants live together with the one rule being kill no human. That is beyond fascinating to me. Last but not least, is his ability to world build and plant seeds for later. I mean, he literally took all the xmen toys out the box and giving so many characters new backstory and motivations and i am here for it. X of swords was an apocalypse story and it was epic af. He is a tragic hero now and that’s amazing to me. Reign of x is going to be legit. I can feel it. When claremont brought us to space and gave us the shi’ ar it was a brand new way to experience xmen. We are about to get that again and i think some classic characters like storm and cyclops are going to be bringing some incredible feats with them. So yeah i guess you can say i like it.
-
[QUOTE=Rang10;5459040]Hickman has total freedom, it is his choice to drag out the stories.
[/QUOTE]
That's not true and it's on record. Nobody working at Marvel has total freedom to do anything. Lots of money is on the line, and it would be stupid to let any writer have total freedom. They've already revealed Hickman has had to defer to other writers when it comes to certain characters/stories/legacies, but also expand the X-line to take advantage of the hype of HOX hence him being more of an architect than anything else.
-
[QUOTE=RamaBird;5459178]That's not true and it's on record. Nobody working at Marvel has total freedom to do anything. Lots of money is on the line, and it would be stupid to let any writer have total freedom. They've already revealed Hickman has had to defer to other writers when it comes to certain characters/stories/legacies, but also expand the X-line to take advantage of the hype of HOX hence him being more of an architect than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Hickman doesn't has to defer to any writer, of course that if he uses a character of another office he has to ask them about that.
He is head of x-men of course he has freedom to do things about pace of the stories.
-
For the most part I've enjoyed it, X-Men Hellions and X-Force have been the best in my opinion, but there are some books that are just unreadable to me. X-Factor and Excalibur are just dreadful
-
Still trash. Hope he’s done soon.
