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[QUOTE=Rang10;5464291]it really felt like Hickman narration and not like Synch
Thi si snothing new on X-men. Shooter and Harras where doing that 30 years ago.
I don't think it is working anymore because majority of writers now aren't that good. It really feels like they are having pace problems[/QUOTE]
My problem is that Claremont was only true voice when I started reading the X-Men and nothing written since comes close to how these characters were written. Sure, I got my fix with X-Treme but everything else was different and I had to adapt my tastes.
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I think hickman is brilliant. There are plenty of other writers that are currently going that i enjoy as well. With the introduction of sword, i’m here for it. I feel there are a bit too many x titles for my liking as i find it hard to keep up with everything but i also realize that is a good problem to have. I do wish for a more focused xmen run on the flagship title but with everything going on i can understand why they have not. That could possibly change soon with them voting on a new xmen team. Overall, hickman has captured everything i have loved about xmen from the past decades while also pushing new ideas to take into the future. I’m happy with the xmen. I hope some others who don’t enjoy it can get more out of it after hickman is complete and my thinking is with the big picture in retrospect it could be the greatest thing to happen to xmen in a very long time.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465515]I think hickman is brilliant. There are plenty of other writers that are currently going that i enjoy as well. With the introduction of sword, i’m here for it. I feel there are a bit too many x titles for my liking as i find it hard to keep up with everything but i also realize that is a good problem to have. I do wish for a more focused xmen run on the flagship title but with everything going on i can understand why they have not. That could possibly change soon with them voting on a new xmen team. Overall, hickman has captured everything i have loved about xmen from the past decades while also pushing new ideas to take into the future. I’m happy with the xmen. I hope some others who don’t enjoy it can get more out of it after hickman is complete and my thinking is with the big picture in retrospect it could be the greatest thing to happen to xmen in a very long time.[/QUOTE]
I stopped reading the X-Men during the Morrison run and came back to read HoxPox. There are so many ways this story could go but for me the end goal should be the dream to peacefully co-exist. The icing on the cake would be for Xavier to see this dream come true because in my time of reading the X-men
they lived in a world that feared and hated them.
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Yeah i mean we will have to wait and see if the end game is satisfying. I have trust in hickman but i also try not to bottle up the narrative in that it has to end up a certain way. There are things i would like to see of course but i am in it for the long game so right now i am just going to enjoy the ride.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465611]Yeah i mean we will have to wait and see if the end game is satisfying. I have trust in hickman but i also try not to bottle up the narrative in that it has to end up a certain way. There are things i would like to see of course but i am in it for the long game so right now i am just going to enjoy the ride.[/QUOTE]
It is just something I would like to see because the X-Men seem to be moving further and further away from the original narrative.
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I don’t think they have. Cyclops said it best when he told the quiet council that the xmen are heroes. This is the true nature of the xmen, that despite being hated and feared, they are always willing to lay everything on the line to save both mutants and humanity as a whole. While i do think there are certain philosophies on krakoa that are problematic with mutant and human relations, i feel this is more how the struggle is evolving. Yes, xavier had a dream. It certainly feels like that dream is being overshadowed by a more sinister narrative that pulls at him. Yet, the xmen was never about charles xavier. It was never about cyclops. It is about mutant heroes being the ones to be there when all the chips are down and everyone and everything being against them. I think hickman is setting up for a beautiful new beginning for the xmen. A beginning which pays hella homage to the past that came before him. I think many writers have a hard time juggling this delicate line. I guess we will just have to wait and see where it ultimately ends up.
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[QUOTE=pkingdom;5464887]As much as I want to see them ditch the ugly 'us vs. them' narrative and all the nonsense with mutants replacing humans, if the end lesson is that mutants are the same as humans, then its kind of a 'Well duh, no shit' ending. Like, its a lesson that's been done before, and quite a lot. It used to be the standard! It was the good guys pointing this fact out to the bad guys, so its kind of bizarre that they would just forget it.
I call that moment from Morrison an (almost) original sin for the X line, for 2 major reasons. First, it made the X men far harder to root for and had many of them acting creepy and like their original bad guys did. There have been so many times where they just cheerfully comment on mankind going extinct like its a change in the weather. Nobody was really concerned with the imminent death of an entire race, and the stories became all about just holding out until nature runs its course. For example, there's an in-story interview with Beast, Hank Pym and Doctor Octopus where Beast is super casual about mankind going extinct, and when Pym pushes back on him treating it like its inevitable, Beast immediately gets hostile. Its creepy!
The second reason is purely a writing one. Its just a straight up bad plot basis for an American comic book in the Marvel universe. Mutants will never replace humans that way because it would upend the entire Marvel universe and restructure their entire comic book line. Its never going to happen. And by having this extinction event supposedly happening in just a couple decades, and potentially within the lifetimes of the cast, it forces all plots into being about being about this major change and why it isn't happening.[/QUOTE]
What a take, make Beast sound more vilainous than Pym and Doc Octopus. Morrison's Beast really has come red flags.
The conclusion that mutants are also human are very obvious and we already know it. I think the conclusion is that humans need to unite with mutant to build a better future. Another "well duh"
Comics never move beyond x-men and Peter parker having 28 years old, so the moment will never arrive;. No wonder nobody eer referenced that again.
[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5465487]My problem is that Claremont was only true voice when I started reading the X-Men and nothing written since comes close to how these characters were written. Sure, I got my fix with X-Treme but everything else was different and I had to adapt my tastes.[/QUOTE]
Claremont realy build the x-men. There is good runs after him, but I feels like the franchise turned to be the opposite of what he was doing
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5465729]What a take, make Beast sound more vilainous than Pym and Doc Octopus. Morrison's Beast really has come red flags.
The conclusion that mutants are also human are very obvious and we already know it. I think the conclusion is that humans need to unite with mutant to build a better future. Another "well duh"
Comics never move beyond x-men and Peter parker having 28 years old, so the moment will never arrive;. No wonder nobody eer referenced that again.
Claremont realy build the x-men. There is good runs after him, but I feels like the franchise turned to be the opposite of what he was doing[/QUOTE]
So true. When did it go from a world that fears and hates them to humans fear and hate them?
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Naysayers. Lots and lots of naysayers. If you think the xmen have not been good since claremont i really question the validity of your familiarization with the xmen since his time was over. I get not liking a run. There have been many i have not liked. The level of negativity expressed through some of your posts though comes across as pretentious i am sorry to say.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465640]I don’t think they have. Cyclops said it best when he told the quiet council that the xmen are heroes. This is the true nature of the xmen, that despite being hated and feared, they are always willing to lay everything on the line to save both mutants and humanity as a whole. While i do think there are certain philosophies on krakoa that are problematic with mutant and human relations, i feel this is more how the struggle is evolving. Yes, xavier had a dream. It certainly feels like that dream is being overshadowed by a more sinister narrative that pulls at him. Yet, the xmen was never about charles xavier. It was never about cyclops. It is about mutant heroes being the ones to be there when all the chips are down and everyone and everything being against them. I think hickman is setting up for a beautiful new beginning for the xmen. A beginning which pays hella homage to the past that came before him. I think many writers have a hard time juggling this delicate line. I guess we will just have to wait and see where it ultimately ends up.[/QUOTE]
The dream was always a big part of it for me because without Xavier we wouldn't have the X-Men.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465757]Naysayers. Lots and lots of naysayers. If you think the xmen have not been good since claremont i really question the validity of your familiarization with the xmen since his time was over. I get not liking a run. There have been many i have not liked. The level of negativity expressed through some of your posts though comes across as pretentious i am sorry to say.[/QUOTE]
Could you clarify who this was aimed at?
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[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5465789]Could you clarify who this was aimed at?[/QUOTE]
No, because honestly, i should not have said it. I am just getting annoyed at the constant negativity i see about hickman. It would be different if i felt people were coming from an honest place with their criticism. Though, tbf, i think a lot of it is probably they do not know how to pinpoint what it is they don’t like about it. The constant gaslighting and hyperbole i see thrown around just gets me riled up and for that i am at fault.
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465823]No, because honestly, i should not have said it. I am just getting annoyed at the constant negativity i see about hickman. It would be different if i felt people were coming from an honest place with their criticism. Though, tbf, i think a lot of it is probably they do not know how to pinpoint what it is they don’t like about it. The constant gaslighting and hyperbole i see thrown around just gets me riled up and for that i am at fault.[/QUOTE]
He got me back into the franchise.
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[QUOTE=Houseofhick;5465831]He got me back into the franchise.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, i am aware his work is regarded as a critical success. It just bums me when people just trashing him without giving him a fair chance. Like yeah not 100% of the issues have been brilliant, but do you really want something that just gives us fan service every month without doing anything new with the xmen? I dunno maybe i am just being to hard on people
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[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5465836]Yeah, i am aware his work is regarded as a critical success. It just bums me when people just trashing him without giving him a fair chance. Like yeah not 100% of the issues have been brilliant, but do you really want something that just gives us fan service every month without doing anything new with the xmen? I dunno maybe i am just being to hard on people[/QUOTE]
I don't like Morrison's X-Men but many people love it and I am fine with that. It doesn't matter what other people think because if you like it then that is all that matters.
