[QUOTE=Slicknickshady;5543092]Can’t end soon enough. Let’s hope Nightcrawler destroys Krakoa.[/QUOTE]
Dang! Tell us how you really feel. LoL!
Do you feel they seem a little too villainous these days, hanging out with Apocalypse, Sinister and those sort of characters? What’s your issues with the books? Please, expand upon your view.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5543088]Thank you :)[/QUOTE]
You're welcome ;)
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5543088]Yes I would love to see a new version of the Uncanny Avengers, this is a good time for a team like that.[/QUOTE]
That could work too, show a united front with the other premier super-team. Plus, aren't the Avengers trying to deal with an explosion of rival super-teams? Better to have Krakoa on your side.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5543088]Yes so far they had to use indirect attacks so if something happens the balance is quite fragile, I think the leadership has keep a thinly veiled balance but after the Gala and Magneto´s trial who knows what will happen, I expect conflict but I hope they keep part of that tension going on for more time.[/QUOTE]
I'm admittedly impatient, maybe just a little more forward momentum would be good.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5543082]I don't think that's an uncommon feeling for the flagship title. A lot of the ideas presented are ripe for discussion and analysis even if the execution isn't everyone's cup of tea.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5543088]Discussion is a big part of the fun, and you raise good points as well. There´s so much left to know about how Krakoa came to be that there´s much left to debate.[/QUOTE]
I wish it [I]was[/I] my cup of tea.
I appreciate y'all humoring me.
Still very interested.
The weakest links so far are Excalibur, X-Factor, and X-Force (mostly because of the coarse art and parade of "monster of the week" plant stuff). Children of the Atom is only three issues in, and X-Corp just started, but they're not very promising for me.
Fallen Angels was a huge misfire and X-Men/Fantastic Four was rendered pointless because of Dan Slott's poopy pants.
Future looks promising.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]
Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.[/QUOTE]
Acccctually Saturnye brought them over. ONly the Summoner subset are half demon I think not that it matters. There's plenty of half demon heroes in the 616. And they did Save the Earth only to be sent to a hellish reality....Id be a lil salty
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542829]
And that's true from the perspective mutants, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the average person who woke up one day and there was suddenly an entire new world power chaired by [B]some of the worst criminals in human history.[/B] There's definitely some great potential narrative payoff, maybe I'll be singing praises for this run by the end[/QUOTE]
huh? like who? for what? and people wake up, eat, work, and continue to live in countries that has laws preventing or taking away their full agency every day. Is it scarier because its 'new' Why would the average person care about 'super criminals in a foreign country thousands of miles away when they don't even trust their own government to not poison vaccines? lol
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542829]Krakoa is the first time mutantkind has largely gathered in this way, I think Orchis as a [I]preventive or protective measure[/I] could arguably be justified. [B]The use of a Mother Mold is indefensible, that's true.[/B][/QUOTE]
And Yet...
[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542589]They certainly seem more like the latter in that context.[/QUOTE]
No guys...racism is wrong. is the KKK the protectors of Southern whites? Nazis of Aryan blood?
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542587]Are any of us defending human government's for doing that?[/QUOTE]
If its 'problematic' to not say anything to Magneto for his comments why not the same standard for the human hero's who are cool with their governments owning and using Sentinels....Did nothing about the TCloud... MDay etc. Hell America's last president, said far worse about whole countries
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542762]I see what you mean, but what I'm saying is to [B]Brian B[/B]'s point that it's that wiggle room that allows Orchis and others like them the leeway they need to push further and further. [B]The average layman will see that Krakoan leadership includes Apocalypse [/B]and won't push back as much when Orchis goes too far.[/QUOTE]
Errr What has Apocalypse done to the average layman?? As an Average layman I can say without question I wouldn't be okay with a racist hate group attacking a nation of people because of their leadership
Geeez
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]I don´t think the average person knows who Apocalypse, Selene, Sinister, et all even are as all of them had their hidden identities [/QUOTE]
But if they Did it would justify Genocide.... which I guess has been the theme past few pages
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]Yes it would be a nice way to include a third faction that makes sense because at the end of the day most mutants are born from human families who loved them or love them. In fact it was never explained why they would allow their child to be taken to camps. Old Genosha had the story of a couple, one a mutant and one a human who was the Son of the one in charge to the mutates concentration camps so he used his father influence to save his girlfriend and later became a rebel in favor of mutants so yes, there´s room for more stories like that one.
[/QUOTE] Errrr going from being cool with ur dad running concentration camps to "rebel" cause ur gf got put in one doesnt really give me that heartwarming feeling.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542884]Certainly most people wouldn't know but with modern technology and the numerous conflicts that there have been (thanks Marvel) there should be plenty of people and even conspiracy websites spreading this information.[/QUOTE]
WOuld the people with this modern technology just Forget who Hitler...Stalin...Pol Pot..THe Pretender are? Which mutants are worse?
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542884]And I think that point of view is explored so little, there's so much ground to explore.[/QUOTE]
buuut what is the point of view so ripe for exploration?
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542884]I'd like to see possible deserters of Orchis, individuals who believe that there should be a response but disagree with the extreme direction that Orchis eventually went.[/QUOTE]
Nice Family Friendly racists?
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5543034]
I think I'm enjoying discussing these topics with y'all more than I did reading the actual book.[/QUOTE]
I didn't think you did
[QUOTE=Slicknickshady;5543092]Can’t end soon enough. Let’s hope Nightcrawler destroys Krakoa.[/QUOTE]
LOL, if lil' ol' Kurt destroyed Krakoa I will throw all the moneys at Marvel
My excitement going forward will be based on how much I like the whole Gala event plus how X-Men turns out and, especially, what Hickman decides to do with the new title.
Can't say anything met the hype and quality of HoX/PoX ever since the final issue and I am in this constant push-pull whether to read it all (as intended) or just drop most due to mediocrity and read Hickman stuff only.
Unfortunately, Hickman was purely 'the head of X' so far and a short story writer. Nothing ever led to anything except for a couple of ace issues.
*Way of X #1 was incredible!
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]Acccctually Saturnye brought them over. ONly the Summoner subset are half demon I think not that it matters. There's plenty of half demon heroes in the 616. And they did Save the Earth only to be sent to a hellish reality....Id be a lil salty
huh? like who? for what? and people wake up, eat, work, and continue to live in countries that has laws preventing or taking away their full agency every day. Is it scarier because its 'new' Why would the average person care about 'super criminals in a foreign country thousands of miles away when they don't even trust their own government to not poison vaccines? lol
And Yet...
No guys...racism is wrong. is the KKK the protectors of Southern whites? Nazis of Aryan blood?[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE]If its 'problematic' to not say anything to Magneto for his comments why not the same standard for the human hero's who are cool with their governments owning and using Sentinels....Did nothing about the TCloud... MDay etc. Hell America's last president, said far worse about whole countries[/QUOTE]
Ugh don´t make me remember that one, he was more talk than substance but he was way annoying. I stand that Magneto said that because he was talking to a bunch of ambassadors whose goverments in the past have not tought much about using sentinels to hunt down mutants and one agent send to kill Xavier. This doesn´t mean he´s going to go around telling every human he sees how they are gods now. Especially since he has had good relationships with humans in the past.
[QUOTE]Errr What has Apocalypse done to the average layman?? As an Average layman I can say without question I wouldn't be okay with a racist hate group attacking a nation of people because of their leadership
Geeez[/QUOTE]
Apocalypse is unknown but his presence on Krakoa can be used to tell how much they need to stop Krakoa, it´s part of dyplomacy that they need to take care of now.
[QUOTE]But if they Did it would justify Genocide.... which I guess has been the theme past few pages[/QUOTE]
Can´t argue with you on this one, you are totally right but the problem is that it doesn´t justify it at all but it´s exactly what they are going to do and that´s why they are not "good guys" on any category.
[QUOTE]Errrr going from being cool with ur dad running concentration camps to "rebel" cause ur gf got put in one doesnt really give me that heartwarming feeling.[/QUOTE]
Well I mostly made that point to show there are stories that could tackle a middle ground without being fully right or wrong, I liked he at least started to care enough to join the civil war on Genosha even if he did it for not quite a virtous reason at the beggining.
[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542909]Yes definitely that´s why I think the rule of kill no man is not only important to keep mutants with bad intentions in check it also gives humanity an olive branch from which they have room to talk out their issues instead of going overboard with it[/QUOTE]
I doubt this rule is known by every human on Earth neither the humans trust the mutants if, by chance, they know it. Krakoa is a close society with few contacts with the rest of the world. The exchanges are discouraged.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543106]Dang! Tell us how you really feel. LoL!
Do you feel they seem a little too villainous these days, hanging out with Apocalypse, Sinister and those sort of characters? What’s your issues with the books? Please, expand upon your view.[/QUOTE]
For me it's they don't seem like themselves. I had high hopes after HOX/POX but since then lost interest. I now Hickman likes to move things slowly but for me it's going to slow. With his Avengers run (which I loved) although the story took time to progress it seemed to move things along. Every few months I pick up a book or two to see if things are any better (really enjoyed X-Force and Marauders initially) but for me not so much. I appreciate Hickman trying to change things up but for me it's to much of a change. My favorite era was the Outback times through X-Men 1-3 (when CC left), I guess I'm just old. lol
[QUOTE=Zelena;5543716]I doubt this rule is known by every human on Earth neither the humans trust the mutants if, by chance, they know it. Krakoa is a close society with few contacts with the rest of the world. The exchanges are discouraged.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly random humans in Hellions and New Mutants knew about it, so it seems like common knowledge.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]Acccctually Saturnye brought them over. ONly the Summoner subset are half demon I think not that it matters. There's plenty of half demon heroes in the 616. And they did Save the Earth only to be sent to a hellish reality....Id be a lil salty [/QUOTE]
Saturnyne only brought them over because Apocalypse won the right to so so. You blame Saturnyne. I blame Apocalypse. And Krakoa.
The Summoners were just one example of the demon-mutants. There could be other — for lack of a better word — classes.
To date, Apocalypse’s creations have been depicted as demonic, such as the various Four Horsemen. Why would his children be any different? From what we’ve seen, these kids of his maybe worse than his other creations. There’s not much heroic about them anymore, if there ever was.
This is little different than the general issue of making allies from former foes who are still, as far as we know, enemies of humanity, like Apocalypse, Sinister, Shaw, etc. Bringing over a bunch of demons from a Hellish place to Earth really isn’t the best thing the X crew have done for humanity. This is where the mutant metaphor breaks down. Gay people or Mexican immigrants or whoever do not bring over from Hell demons that want to displace humans. Why wouldn’t governments or someone — Orchis in the comics — get the Sentinels going to protect humans? If this were real life, it might be justifiable.
By the way, I do blame the writers and editors, not the characters. This is mostly Hickman’s work. I am holding on and enjoying the ride. I am not sure where this all is going. I just see some flaws in the argument that the mutants are oppressed now, with their own state and super powers. I think Hickman sees it as well, is using it, and it is part of his story.
I’m really looking forward to X-Men 20 in a week, hopefully 21 not too long after that, and Planet-Sized. All the real action in Hickman’s run so far has been in the bigger special issues and “mini” series like House of X, etc. With the Gala, Duggan’s “new” team, Hickman’s new title in September or so, there’s much to look forward to reading.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]huh? like who? for what? and people wake up, eat, work, and continue to live in countries that has laws preventing or taking away their full agency every day. Is it scarier because its 'new' Why would the average person care about 'super criminals in a foreign country thousands of miles away when they don't even trust their own government to not poison vaccines? lol[/QUOTE]
Poison vaccines? Look, the point is that there is (or should be) so much upheaval with Krakoa that even an average person would be a little anxious about it, and those criminals are Sinister, Apocalypse, any former Brotherhood mutants or even Magneto depending on the person, etc. Pretending that they aren't there or aren't a factor isn't cute or funny, it's obtuse.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]And Yet...[/QUOTE]
Go ahead and ignore the part where I said [I]in that context[/I].
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]No guys...racism is wrong. is the KKK the protectors of Southern whites? Nazis of Aryan blood?[/QUOTE]
This is just an incredibly overblown point that doesn't contend with what I'm saying.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]If its 'problematic' to not say anything to Magneto for his comments why not the same standard for the human hero's who are cool with their governments owning and using Sentinels....Did nothing about the TCloud... MDay etc. Hell America's last president, said far worse about whole countries[/QUOTE]
We can have that conversation if you want but if this isn't whataboutism I don't know what is.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]Errr What has Apocalypse done to the average layman?? As an Average layman I can say without question I wouldn't be okay with a racist hate group attacking a nation of people because of their leadership
Geeez[/QUOTE]
You are really stuck on this "what has Apocalypse done" thing aren't you? I haven't read every single X-book ever, I can't give you a complete rundown and it's not reasonable to demand one. We understand who Apocalypse has been since his genesis and what his goals are and even just judging him for what the X-Men have been put through makes him a monster.
As for your latter point, no one has made that argument so you can drop that one.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]But if they Did it would justify Genocide.... which I guess has been the theme past few pages[/QUOTE]
It really hasn't, you might need to go back through for a second look.
[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543641]Errrr going from being cool with ur dad running concentration camps to "rebel" cause ur gf got put in one doesnt really give me that heartwarming feeling.
WOuld the people with this modern technology just Forget who Hitler...Stalin...Pol Pot..THe Pretender are? Which mutants are worse?
buuut what is the point of view so ripe for exploration?
Nice Family Friendly racists?
I didn't think you did[/QUOTE]
These points perfectly illustrate what happens when the X-Men are looked at only through the lens of the minority metaphor - you lose any nuance, you lose any understanding beyond the simple us/them binary.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543871]Saturnyne only brought them over because Apocalypse won the right to so so. You blame Saturnyne. I blame Apocalypse. And Krakoa.
The Summoners were just one example of the demon-mutants. There could be other — for lack of a better word — classes.
To date, Apocalypse’s creations have been depicted as demonic, such as the various Four Horsemen. Why would his children be any different? From what we’ve seen, these kids of his maybe worse than his other creations. There’s not much heroic about them anymore, if there ever was.
This is little different than the general issue of making allies from former foes who are still, as far as we know, enemies of humanity, like Apocalypse, Sinister, Shaw, etc. Bringing over a bunch of demons from a Hellish place to Earth really isn’t the best thing the X crew have done for humanity. This is where the mutant metaphor breaks down. Gay people or Mexican immigrants or whoever do not bring over from Hell demons that want to displace humans. Why wouldn’t governments or someone — Orchis in the comics — get the Sentinels going to protect humans? If this were real life, it might be justifiable.
By the way, I do blame the writers and editors, not the characters. This is mostly Hickman’s work. I am holding on and enjoying the ride. I am not sure where this all is going. I just see some flaws in the argument that the mutants are oppressed now, with their own state and super powers. I think Hickman sees it as well, is using it, and it is part of his story.
I’m really looking forward to X-Men 20 in a week, hopefully 21 not too long after that, and Planet-Sized. All the real action in Hickman’s run so far has been in the bigger special issues and “mini” series like House of X, etc. With the Gala, Duggan’s “new” team, Hickman’s new title in September or so, there’s much to look forward to reading.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you but i will say that all the gray area is what keeps me really hype to see what is going to be the straw that breaks the mutant island’s back. I hate when villains are so one sided evil. I still cringe when i read older xmen and they call them “the brotherhood of evil mutants”. I want the villains to believe they are on the side of good. Or at least have reasons to justify what they are doing. This is a big reason i fell in love with x of swords because it turned apocalypse into this one note “darwin” villain, into a tragic hero. The mutants of arrako have none of the preconceptions of apocalypse or krakoa and i love that. It challenges the views of what krakoa is founded on. While demon mutants and such are not real world problems, a nation whose ideals are challenged and bends its own rules in order to stay in power is definitely real world. I prefer subtle writing over on the nose and that’s what hickman has done up to this point at least.
[QUOTE]Errr What has Apocalypse done to the average layman?? As an Average layman I can say without question I wouldn't be okay with a racist hate group attacking a nation of people because of their leadership[/QUOTE]
How does that bit from the Simpsons go?
"Really? Attempted murder? How is that a crime? Do they give awards for attempted chemistry?"
Something like that. Except replace "murder" with "genocide".
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]Poison vaccines? Look, the point is that there is (or should be) so much upheaval with Krakoa that even an average person would be a little anxious about it, and those criminals are Sinister, Apocalypse, any former Brotherhood mutants or even Magneto depending on the person, etc. Pretending that they aren't there or aren't a factor isn't cute or funny, it's obtuse.
Go ahead and ignore the part where I said [I]in that context[/I].
This is just an incredibly overblown point that doesn't contend with what I'm saying.
We can have that conversation if you want but if this isn't whataboutism I don't know what is.
You are really stuck on this "what has Apocalypse done" thing aren't you? I haven't read every single X-book ever, I can't give you a complete rundown and it's not reasonable to demand one. We understand who Apocalypse has been since his genesis and what his goals are and even just judging him for what the X-Men have been put through makes him a monster.
As for your latter point, no one has made that argument so you can drop that one.
It really hasn't, you might need to go back through for a second look.
These points perfectly illustrate what happens when the X-Men are looked at only through the lens of the minority metaphor - you lose any nuance, you lose any understanding beyond the simple us/them binary.[/QUOTE]
I actually agree with you in that readers and even writer’s sometimes do lose nuance in these sort of abstract racial issues that the xmen deal with. That being said, i do love a good allegory and i think that is what hickman is doing. What i like about it is it is not solid in such a way as we can say “it is exactly like this real life thing” when its really just a blend of different issues when it comes to nation building. I do think there is a sort of ominous undertone, especially when it comes to the quiet council and the nation of krakoa. I can even understand why that would turn some people off as xmen have always been the good guys explicitly. I eat it up though, i won’t lie. I like seeing my heroes have their ideals challenged and turned on their head. I think at the end of the run, it will be a different beast to judge than just the pieces we see now. Even if the ending sucks though, i am enjoying the journey, more than i have with xmen in a long, long time. So, at the end of the day, i will be a hickman fan and yeah i admit that will give me a certain bias.
[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5544509]I actually agree with you in that readers and even writer’s sometimes do lose nuance in these sort of abstract racial issues that the xmen deal with. That being said, i do love a good allegory and i think that is what hickman is doing. What i like about it is it is not solid in such a way as we can say “it is exactly like this real life thing” when its really just a blend of different issues when it comes to nation building. I do think there is a sort of ominous undertone, especially when it comes to the quiet council and the nation of krakoa. I can even understand why that would turn some people off as xmen have always been the good guys explicitly. I eat it up though, i won’t lie. I like seeing my heroes have their ideals challenged and turned on their head. I think at the end of the run, it will be a different beast to judge than just the pieces we see now. Even if the ending sucks though, i am enjoying the journey, more than i have with xmen in a long, long time. So, at the end of the day, i will be a hickman fan and yeah i admit that will give me a certain bias.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, and I appreciate your point of view; absolutely this era could kill it by the end, but I think the writing's on the wall for Hickman's X-Men. Unless his next book is [I]Uncanny X-Men[/I], what he actually wrote of X-Men hasn't really done it in my opinion.
Nothing wrong with having a preference/bias, especially when you're aware of it upfront.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543871]
Saturnyne only brought them over because Apocalypse won the right to so so. You blame Saturnyne. I blame Apocalypse. And Krakoa.[/QUOTE]
Blame them for what rescuing people?
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543871]The Summoners were just one example of the demon-mutants. There could be other — for lack of a better word — classes.[/QUOTE]
Well there's only one summoner left
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543871]To date, Apocalypse’s creations have been depicted as demonic, such as the various Four Horsemen. Why would his children be any different? From what we’ve seen, these kids of his maybe worse than his other creations. There’s not much heroic about them anymore, if there ever was. [/QUOTE]
Yeeeeah never said they were hero's Thing is they haven't done anything to form an opinion about. You have literal hell demons like mephisto and his kids running around thw strange academy buuut you wanna focus on Apoc's kids? Seems unfair
[QUOTE=Brian B;5543871]This is little different than the general issue of making allies from former foes who are still, as far as we know, enemies of humanity, like Apocalypse, Sinister, Shaw, etc. Bringing over a bunch of demons from a Hellish place to Earth really isn’t the best thing the X crew have done for humanity. This is where the mutant metaphor breaks down. Gay people or Mexican immigrants or whoever do not bring over from Hell demons that want to displace humans. Why wouldn’t governments or someone — Orchis in the comics — get the Sentinels going to protect humans? If this were real life, it might be justifiable.[/QUOTE]
Huh? They only brought the Mutants back the only Mutant/demon hybrids in that world were summoners and they're all dead cept one You currently have Ghost Rider from Hell and have vampire Blade on the Acengers Nightcrawler is also half demon. Non of these mutants are and if they were remind me of the aggressions they've leveled against all of humanity....I'll wait
Actually if I was one of the Arakko Mutants after learning about what has been done to the Mutants in the past I'd be prepping a preemptive strike lol
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]
Poison vaccines? Look, the point is that there is (or should be) so much upheaval with Krakoa that even an average person would be a little anxious about it, and those criminals are Sinister, Apocalypse, any former Brotherhood mutants or even Magneto depending on the person, etc. Pretending that they aren't there or aren't a factor isn't cute or funny, it's obtuse. [/QUOTE]
Lol since when does Sinister even care enough about humanity to fvck with them? Apocalypse as well (who had actually saved humanity a few times) Magneto really wanted a safe space for mutants so check and former members of the brotherhood Like who? Most if the various BoEM have been antagonist to xmen alone last one to do any real harm to humans was when she tried to kill Senator kelly foe his racist anti mutant policies later the gov hired that team
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]We can have that conversation if you want but if this isn't whataboutism I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]
lol dude thats all youve done
Krakoa bears no ill will towards humans 'but what about what Magneto or Apocalypse..etc said" or . "What about the humans who.feel sad..." Youre using the silence of others at Magnetos words as evidence of there being something inherently wrong with Krakoa while ignoring the actions that caused death and destructions by the governments 'justified' to plan on wiping out mutants
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]You are really stuck on this "what has Apocalypse done" thing aren't you? I haven't read every single X-book ever, I can't give you a complete rundown and it's not reasonable to demand one. We understand who Apocalypse has been since his genesis and what his goals are and even just judging him for what the X-Men have been put through makes him a monster.[/QUOTE]
Bruh youve said what a villain he is... what a scourge he is to humanity...i didn't ask for a complete rundown but you can't even give me one
Here's a compliaton of his biggest Villainous acts and heroic ones
[url]https://www.cbr.com/xmen-times-apocalypse-en-sabah-nur-marvel-biggest-villain-savior/[/url]
For what he put the X-Men through? Honestly who has hurt the X-Men more Apocalypse or The Pretender??
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]As for your latter point, no one has made that argument so you can drop that one.[/QUOTE]
Oook I was commenting on your post about Orchis Death planet being justified by KraKoas government leaders ravidat the thought of destroying humanity yet haven't really shown any evidence of that being the case
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5544208]These points perfectly illustrate what happens when the X-Men are looked at only through the lens of the minority metaphor - you lose any nuance, you lose any understanding beyond the simple us/them binary.
[/QUOTE]
Dude you been calling them the worst criminals in history which is just false
#sorrynotsorry
[QUOTE=Alan2099;5544447]How does that bit from the Simpsons go?
"Really? Attempted murder? How is that a crime? Do they give awards for attempted chemistry?"
Something like that. Except replace "murder" with "genocide".[/QUOTE]lol it falls flat when the person actually committed Genocide is on a hero team