Not if the overall themes and plots are seeded there but developed and explored in the other books.
Duggan will be writing X-Men featuring the official team...will that be the new "Flag ship" (going by previous standards) or will that be the one HiX-Man is slated to write later on...seeing as how he is directing this entire era?
Flag-ship, as it relates to this era, is malleable. And every book in the line, as it relates to this era, could be considered "essential reading."
[QUOTE=Brian B;5524544]I’m not bullying you. I’m describing to you what’s in the comics and discussed by the Head of X in interviews.
Okay, here’s the Summer House layout from X-Men #1. Note that there are doors to the main area, but Jean’s, Scott’s and Logan’s rooms have no doors between them:
[IMG]https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/hick-men-4.jpg[/IMG]
The three of them are literally living together. Believe your eyes.
I’ll skip images of Scott and Logan discussing the Speedo, because you seem to have seen that, as well as the three of them hanging on each other in X-Men #1, because I assume you’ve seen that too. And you obviously know Jean and Scott are together.
Well, here’s Jean and Wolverine together.
Here is from X-Force #10:
[IMG]https://media-comicbook-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/media.comicbook.com/2020/07/x-force-10-jean-grey-wolverine-2-1228811.jpeg[/IMG]
Here is from X-Force #18:
[IMG]https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jean.jpg[/IMG]
I assume from their living arrangements (see the map of the Summers House) that Jean and Wolverine are not a secret, that Jean is not cheating.
Admittedly, my interpretation is that this means Scott and Logan are gay, and Jean is kind of on the side. It could be it’s more of a polyandry situation. Either way, it is definitely a threesome situation and it definitely falls under the preferred “queer” label that the LGBTQ+ community prefers. This is Marvel canon. It is in the comicbooks. I’m not making it up.
Also, here’s the link to the Hickman interview:
[URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/off-panel-44-maximum-hickman-with-jonathan-hickman/id1006337409?i=1000366717368"]https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/off-panel-44-maximum-hickman-with-jonathan-hickman/id1006337409?i=1000366717368[/URL]
You can choose to ignore what the comicbook stories are telling us, but this is what they are doing in the comics and what the Head of X is discussing in public.
I understand you have issues with this. Personally, I’ve got a lot of issues with Hickman’s X books, but this doesn’t trouble me after I relaxed about it.[/QUOTE]
Nothing of this proofs you point and u know it. The time we saw Scott/Jean room it didn't had any of the doors on theat diagram. It is called bait
Jean kissing Logan doesn't proof that Logan and Scott are dating and u know it.
Hickman never said tat they are a polyamor or that Logan/Scott are a sexual relationship.
You wont bully me into this.
I really miss when people discussed what was on books instead of headcanons
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5524617]The flagship absolutely should be the one book considered "essential reading", especially when you consider it's being written by the guy behind this entire era. Is every book essential?[/QUOTE]
The objective of a flagship book is be essential reading. No wonder Hickman books sales are just about the same as Rosenberg or Fraction. it jut doesn't feel essential reading and other books are better to read like sword or Hellions
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5524640]Not if the overall themes and plots are seeded there but developed and explored in the other books.
Duggan will be writing X-Men featuring the official team...will that be the new "Flag ship" (going by previous standards) or will that be the one HiX-Man is slated to write later on...seeing as how he is directing this entire era?
Flag-ship, as it relates to this era, is malleable. And every book in the line, as it relates to this era, could be considered "essential reading."[/QUOTE]
Unless someone can show me otherwise, there was no indication that X-Men wasn't the flagship. In fact, the simplest way to figure out what book in a given franchise is the flagship, is to just look at the title. So, X-Men under Duggan will remain the flagship, and whatever Hickman writes may or may not also count as one. Two is a good number, I think that's about as many as you can have.
For something to be essential, it's removal must be detrimental to the whole. I don't think every book could possibly count.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642]Nothing of this proofs you point and u know it. The time we saw Scott/Jean room it didn't had any of the doors on theat diagram. It is called bait
Jean kissing Logan doesn't proof that Logan and Scott are dating and u know it.
Hickman never said tat they are a polyamor or that Logan/Scott are a sexual relationship.
You wont bully me into this.
I really miss when people discussed what was on books instead of headcanons[/QUOTE]
It's okay, just because it's on the page doesn't make it a good idea or mean that it's written well.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642]The objective of a flagship book is be essential reading. No wonder Hickman books sales are just about the same as Rosenberg or Fraction. it jut doesn't feel essential reading and other books are better to read like sword or Hellions[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If the average reader will only pick up one book, it's gonna be the flagship generally.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5524663]It's okay, just because it's on the page doesn't make it a good idea or mean that it's written well.[/quote]
Well it is garbage writing as they never go explicit. But I draw my line on the queerbait. Queerbait isn't canon and is very coward for them.
also if they never go explicit the reader can decide on what they want
[quote]
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If the average reader will only pick up one book, it's gonna be the flagship generally.[/QUOTE]
Like Batman books, you gonna pick up Batman that is where events happen and change the satellite books.
Sometimes people can't buy many books, so the flagship functions as the anchor to the group of books
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5524623]I can see that it exists, but this is still not a good development.[/QUOTE]
I understand some fans may not like it. I can’t say I love it, but once I thought about it, it’s kind of an elegant solution to the love triangle that’s been foisted upon us — they’re a throuple.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642]Nothing of this proofs you point and u know it. The time we saw Scott/Jean room it didn't had any of the doors on theat diagram. It is called bait[/QUOTE]
I just showed the diagram. What it shows is Logan has a room. Jean has a room. Scott has a room. There are doors on each of their rooms to the outside, common areas. Between them, it is a suite of 3 rooms, with no doors between them and Jean’s room is in the middle. Scott and Jean don’t have a room together. But they do go to bed together, as has been stated in the comics. They have separate rooms with no doors. Look at the diagram. The 3 of them are living together.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642]Jean kissing Logan doesn't proof that Logan and Scott are dating and u know it.[/QUOTE]
Okay. So be it. The comic shows you Jean and Logan are having sex in a Krakoan hot tub together. It sure does not seem like Jean is cheating on Scott. They are all living together. Wolverine and Logan might not be sleeping together. That is my interpretation, as I said. But, they are a throuple. That’s what a throuple is, three people living in an amorous relationship. It is a “queer” relationship, which is the preferred LGBTQ+ community’s label for such things, even if Scott and Logan aren’t having sex.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642]Hickman never said tat they are a polyamor or that Logan/Scott are a sexual relationship. [/QUOTE]
First, Hickman did say that. He didn’t use that exact term, but yes, he admits Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine are living together in a polyamorous, sexual relationship. He talks about how he wanted to show it to let the readers know what’s going on, without depicting it too explicitly. Listen to the interview and podcast. I’m not making things up.
Second, Jean, Scott and Logan are depicted as living together. Jean is shown to be sexually active with both of them. That IS one type of polyamory, called polyandry. It IS queer, per the preferred label of the LGBTQ+ community. Even though Scott and Logan may not be crossing swords, so to speak, the 3 of them are in a sexual relationship together.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524642] You wont bully me into this.
I really miss when people discussed what was on books instead of headcanons[/QUOTE]
Again, I am NOT bullying you. I have not called you names. Unlike your comments to me, I have not accused you of making things up
I am describing what is happening in the comicbooks and what the creator has said in interviews.
That is not in my head. I did not imagine this. I showed you it. I provided images. Scott+Jean+Logan — the throuple is Marvel canon.
If you choose to ignore that part of the stories or pretend it is not part of the stories, that is fine. But don’t tell me I’m making things up or that I’m bullying you. Because that’s hooey. Converse with respect to the X books’ fiction we are all reading and can see.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524683]But I draw my line on the queerbait. Queerbait isn't canon and is very coward for them. Also if they never go explicit the reader can decide on what they want
[/QUOTE]
I... actually kinda agree. Like it's pretty thinly veiled that they're a throuple, but the next writer could soooo easily ignore it. It's ambiguous by design which doesn't do justice to queer fans who simply want representation.
Edit: More than anything I'm just glad we're past tired love triangles and can focus on bigger and better stories!
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5524656]For something to be essential, it's removal must be detrimental to the whole. I don't think every book could possibly count.[/QUOTE]
When they're telling specific and integral parts of the whole story, yes they count.
Now, you can pick and choose which to follow according to where your interests lie (I'm only reading six titles, out of twelve) that's your prerogative, that does not mean those books we're not reading are of any less importance to the story being told. Some aren't reading HiX-Man's X-Men...therefore for them, it's either not essential or important enough "flag-ship".
I dont choose to ignore. If writers aren't corageous enought to make it obviously canon, I'm not ignoring anything.
That is how comics open to interpretation works, people can choose.
Yes, jean/Scott and Logan are living on the same house. We saw her kissing Logan twice and that is it. They didn't committted to show anything else.
we actually sw the room and it doesn't connect to any other room. the layouts are all fake.
Logan and Scott are shown just as friends, no kiss and no sex.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5524738]I... actually kinda agree. Like it's pretty thinly veiled that they're a throuple, but the next writer could soooo easily ignore it. It's ambiguous by design which doesn't do justice to queer fans who simply want representation.
Edit: More than anything I'm just glad we're past tired love triangles and can focus on bigger and better stories![/QUOTE]
Really wish to read these bigger and better stories LOL you promised it Hickman!!!!!
there is some good stories, but they are about the same as before, so whatevs
also love triangles haen't beena thin for ages, like a very non existent problem hahaha
Same writer is even inconsistent with it and other writer ignore it. Almost feels like free style story or choose your own
[QUOTE=Brian B;5524727]I understand some fans may not like it. I can’t say I love it, but once I thought about it, it’s kind of an elegant solution to the love triangle that’s been foisted upon us — they’re a throuple.[/QUOTE]
Allow me to respond to this part: I disagree completely that the throuple is an elegant solution. Simply having Jean and Logan paired off and showing us a happy, single Scott would have sufficed.
[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5524738]I... actually kinda agree. Like it's pretty thinly veiled that they're a throuple, but the next writer could soooo easily ignore it. It's ambiguous by design which doesn't do justice to queer fans who simply want representation.
Edit: More than anything I'm just glad we're past tired love triangles and can focus on bigger and better stories![/QUOTE]
I respect this, but insist that this is not how to move past love triangles generally.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524744]I dont choose to ignore. If writers aren't corageous enought to make it obviously canon, I'm not ignoring anything. That is how comics open to interpretation works, people can choose.
Yes, jean/Scott and Logan are living on the same house [/QUOTE]
Okay, you are just denying it then. That’s on you, not the books. They have given you a diagram, literally a picture. They have shown Jean sexually active with two different men, that she lives with in a suite of three bedrooms with no doors.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524744] We saw her kissing Logan twice and that is it. They didn't committted to show anything else.[/QUOTE]
Anytime I have been naked in a hot tub, alone with a naked woman, it does not end with a kiss. Do not try to put this off on the books aren’t showing it. They showed you. It’s not porn. It’s superheroic, science-fictional, Marvel comics. Jean and Wolverine are having sex. They showed it.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5524744] we actually sw the room and it doesn't connect to any other room. the layouts are all fake.
Logan and Scott are shown just as friends, no kiss and no sex.[/QUOTE]
You saw portions of a room, not a tour. And the layout is shown fully in the diagram. And again, Scott and Logan and Jean are in a relationship together, with at least the men individually having sex with Jean. By definition, that is a queer — the LGBTQ+ preferred label — relationship the 3 of them are in together. You’re just denying what’s there. That’s how you want to view it, but it’s not the threesome they are depicting quite clearly.
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, as they say.
Here’s a better question for you — the topic of the thread: What do you think of Hickman’s X-Men so far?
[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5524740]When they're telling specific and integral parts of the whole story, yes they count.
Now, you can pick and choose which to follow according to where your interests lie (I'm only reading six titles, out of twelve) that's your prerogative, that does not mean those books we're not reading are of any less importance to the story being told. Some aren't reading HiX-Man's X-Men...therefore for them, it's either not essential or important enough "flag-ship".[/QUOTE]
Specific? Yes. Integral? I'm not so sure. I'll have to find the tagline/plot outlines for each book, I doubt that they could all count as integral.
Books aren't important only if they have a large audience, I'm sorry if that seemed to be what my arguments were implying.
There are always exceptions to the rule; certainly some might not want to pick up a FS, but that seems to be more likely caused by the narrative expectations of a FS, in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5524769]Allow me to respond to this part: I disagree completely that the throuple is an elegant solution. Simply having Jean and Logan paired off and showing us a happy, single Scott would have sufficed.[/QUOTE]
or everyone dating new people. Readers have to stop pretend this was the only "solution to a non existent problem
[QUOTE=Brian B;5524774]Okay, you are just denying it then. That’s on you, not the books. They have given you a diagram, literally a picture. They have shown Jean sexually active with two different men, that she lives with in a suite of three bedrooms with no doors.
Anytime I have been naked in a hot tub, alone with a naked woman, it does not end with a kiss. Do not try to put this off on the books aren’t showing it. They showed you. It’s not porn. It’s superheroic, science-fictional, Marvel comics. Jean and Wolverine are having sex. They showed it.
You saw portions of a room, not a tour. And the layout is shown fully in the diagram. And again, Scott and Logan and Jean are in a relationship together, with at least the men individually having sex with Jean. By definition, that is a queer — the LGBTQ+ preferred label — relationship the 3 of them are in together. You’re just denying what’s there. That’s how you want to view it, but it’s not the threesome they are depicting quite clearly.
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, as they say.
Here’s a better question for you — the topic of the thread: What do you think of Hickman’s X-Men so far?[/QUOTE]
They have givn you a diagrm? this almost comedic. We already saw the house and there isn't interconnecting rooms.
We only saw two kisses, I'm just denying that books are telling and showing a story.
Jean nor Logan weren't naked. We saw her on a bikini
For a story being told they need to show or/and tell. here none of these happen; it is very open to interpretation and you have to accept it.
For me Hickman's run has been dissapointing and directionless.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5524727] It IS queer, per the preferred label of the LGBTQ+ community. [/QUOTE]
Please, PLEASE stop repeating this. I am gay and I hate that word. Nobody I know likes that word. It may be preferred with the people you know, but not THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.