[QUOTE=Brian B;5528860][B]Ring10[/B], the HiXmen could end up at least partially a tale of hubris. Krakoa the nation-state and society may not turn out so well. Way of X seems to hint at this.[/QUOTE]
I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles have plenty of hubris. i just don't know why the rest of xmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing
[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528869]Why would it not happen outside of krakoa? I am not following this train of thought.[/QUOTE]
Krakoa, this era, is the justification for their relationship. It wouldn't have been done before, and the characters would be OOC if they had, that's what I mean. Never, not once, were the characters ever framed even just a little bit as interested in this sort of thing, rather everything in their history contradicts it.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles are lacking on hubris. i just don't know why the rest of cxmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]
You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?
It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.
The whole thing feels very supervillainy to me.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528878]You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?
It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.[/QUOTE]
I don't get why [I]everyone[/I] is onboard with everything Krakoa is, there's no dissenters? (Other than the big one from WoX)
They don't know about Moira, so what gives?
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528874]Krakoa, this era, is the justification for their relationship. It wouldn't have been done before, and the characters would be OOC if they had, that's what I mean. Never, not once, were the characters ever framed even just a little bit as interested in this sort of thing, rather everything in their history contradicts it.[/QUOTE]
This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528878]You mean Magneto and Charles are not lacking hubris, right?
It is interesting how undemocratically they’re running Krakoa. The government with its ruling council isn’t too evolved, IMO.
The whole thing feels very supervillainy to me.[/QUOTE]
Feels very like the illuminatti on his avengers run. Trying to save the world without telling anyone else about what is happening, with some very shady methods.
Very weird everyone agrees on villains having power to vote laws and huge decisions. There is also the problem that they are living on a sentient being tht have his own will, tht already screw their over on X of swords
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528820]That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...
[B]It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?[/QUOTE][/B]
I think it’s more like Heinlein’s clan family set up, up to and including the luna setting. See [I]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/I] in particular. [spoil]and it will get really interesting if we go down the rebellion path too.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles are lacking on hubris. i just don't know why the rest of cxmen are following him.
There is also a lack of tansparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]
Magneto? Lacking in hubris? I think that's possibly one of the funniest things I've ever read on these boards. I'd have thought if you wanted to create a personification of hubris then Magneto might well be it.
[QUOTE=Big Joe;5528895]Magneto? Lacking in hubris? I think that's possibly one of the funniest things I've ever read on these boards. I'd have thought if you wanted to create a personification of hubris then Magneto might well be it.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I was going to write something else. But Magneto never lacked Hubris
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528885]I don't get why [I]everyone[/I] is onboard with everything Krakoa is, there's no dissenters? (Other than the big one from WoX)
They don't know about Moira, so what gives?[/QUOTE]
it felt very comedic that the only dissenter is a boy because he want to hve adventures on otherworld.
It really lacks a group of known x-men opposing Krakoa way of life. Unless there is a hint of some mind control
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528901]Sorry, I was going to write something else. But Magneto never lacked hubris[/QUOTE]
Yeah, sorry for laughing. I hoped that was what you were going to say.
[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528887]This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing relevant about this though.
Yes, continuity is important, and it's not detrimental to say that a character wouldn't do a given thing because both the writers and readers have an understanding of the characters thanks to that continuity. Writers and editors have a responsibility to respect that continuity - if they want to make a significant change they have make it work narratively, not introduce it suddenly and justify it retroactively. I don't think I'm speaking subjectively, you yourself brought up narrative extrapolation, and we can't reach this conclusion based on the characters' histories.
Maybe I do think that it's impossible, but I haven't even argued that point, simply that as it stand there's no justification. Hickman isn't trying to do so, he's letting readers do it for him.
[QUOTE=Cane_danko;5528887]This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.[/QUOTE]
Well, I’m hanging in there with the story so far. I do want to see where Hickman and the X creators are going with this. I am willing to wait as the details are slowly revealed.
Also, something I haven’t seen remarked upon too much is the art in the new, Hickman-headed X titles has been pretty darn good. I could give examples of some issues and titles I haven’t loved, art-wise, but there’s been some real top-flight art published in these X books, stuff that stands up even with the Adams-Palmer issues. Some of it definitely owes a bit to those issues, too. But starting with House and Powers of X through X of Swords, hopefully into the Gala, the art teams have been fantastic.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528872]I know that Krakoa leaders like Magneto and Charles have plenty of hubris. i just don't know why the rest of xmen are following him.
There is also a lack of transparency how they build and why they build Krakoa, what Moira is doing[/QUOTE]
Above all, they have been in the business of leadership for quite a long… a bit worn down by it. Old men with old ideas… (They should be old, anyway…)
Strange that new leaders didn’t emerge…
[QUOTE=Zelena;5528942]Above all, they have been in the business of leadership for quite a long… a bit worn down by it. Old men with old ideas… (They should be old, anyway…)
Strange that new leaders didn’t emerge…[/QUOTE]
Moira’s leading behind the scenes. She’s always been a supporting character, but she’s definitely a lead now and leading the charge.
And Nightcrawler, he’s leading in his own way.
Kitty, too, she’s become a great leader.
No, they’re not all Council members, but they are leading.
An aside — how come we never see Moira and Rahne Sinclair enjoying a wee dram and some haggis together?
I just thought about something else good about the HiXmen.
There is NOTHING else happening even half as interesting in any of the other Marvel Comics titles as is happening in the X titles right now. The X-Men are IT, right now. They are top dog at Marvel Comics, no matter the sales numbers. I think the only reason some of the X titles may not be selling better is the sheer number of them, splitting up the readership a bit. If Marvel wants to sell more X books, they may need to slim down the line.
With Marvel owning the X IP lock, stock and barrel, again, including movie rights, the dark days of Ike Perlmutter and his Inhumans are behind us.