What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[QUOTE=Soulsword323;5456505]I continue to love it. The most exciting the X-books have been in a long while.

Creative ideas that push the franchise forward. Love seeing the writers unified and actually trying to respect one another's stories and developments. No more character gets mind controlled three different times because clearly the writers couldn't be bothered to keep up with one another's stories.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for saving me the time to type it all up, I agree with every word. Not only am I immensely enjoying the new Hickman era, but I also love the "writers room" approach, the X-Slack, the sharing of ideas and characters cross-pollinating across titles. I hope this is the new status quo going forward and I'm happy the other big franchise in comics (Batman) is adopting this approach.

[QUOTE=Frobisher;5456458]That's not going to happen. Even Chuck Austen has never just been wiped out of existence, and god knows sometimes I wish it was.[/QUOTE]

Writers mostly ignore that Aunsten ever wrote x-men

[QUOTE=Rang10;5456752]Writers mostly ignore that Aunsten ever wrote x-men[/QUOTE]

What was probably his most derided story of all "Draco" still lives on however, with Azazel popping up from time to time and even appearing in a movie. That's a terrible sin someone needs to retcon away one day and replace with Nightcrawler's true origin story with Mystique and Destiny as his parents.

Nah. Mystique f**king the Devil is cash money.

Also adding Northstar to the team absolves him of any wrong doing.

[QUOTE=Triniking1234;5456796]Nah. Mystique f**king the Devil is cash money.

Also adding Northstar to the team absolves him of any wrong doing.[/QUOTE]

That's his one saving grace. I feel Northstar has been treated as a fully integrated X-Men character ever since and that's thanks for Chuckles (who wrote a very good story with Jean-Paul's introduction to the team btw)

I never answered OP's question.

I'm sticking around until the pay-off.

I feel like most of the complaints are from people not used to Hickman's work, Marvel or otherwise. Plus there are a lot of complaints about the character rosters and portrayals.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the slow drip (Avengers was 2 to 3 books a month) from Hickman's end and the quality of the other books varies too much. Like Excalibur's excitement around here looks like a sine graph; Fallen Angels had characters I liked but nothing happened; Brisson's New Mutants was a nothing burger; X of Swords didn't need all those issues and what the f**k is going on in Marauders? It's mostly X-Force and Wolverine been carrying me.

Fallen Angerls things def hapenned there,

I'm well used to hickman way of telling stories

It's the best the X-titles have been since Claremont's first run.

[QUOTE=Nevets;5457059]It's the best the X-titles have been since Claremont's first run.[/QUOTE]

Claremont's first run is easily still the best. Right out of the gate(HOX/POX) it looked like Hickman was going to easily supplant Morrison for #2, but considering he's written more issues at this point with less overall impact[than Morrison], I think the New/X-treme Era is still firmly #2. I'm not sure Hickman can recover at this point, but I'll keep my eyes open to see what else he can bring to the table.

It's the most exciting and forward thinking both in terms of story and behind the scenes workings that the X-Men have ever been in their entire history as a franchise

[QUOTE=nandes;5457228]It's the most exciting and forward thinking both in terms of story and behind the scenes workings that the X-Men have ever been in their entire history as a franchise[/QUOTE]

Lets say for arguments sake that you are correct. What is it worth? It can be what you said and also be bad. Hickman is a writer with obvious strengths and weaknesses. So far they are both on display.

[QUOTE=Malachi;5457284]Lets say for arguments sake that you are correct. What is it worth? It can be what you said and also be bad. Hickman is a writer with obvious strengths and weaknesses. So far they are both on display.[/QUOTE]

Every writer has strenghts and weakness. Hickman has recognized the fact he can't handle everything by expanding the Krakoan status quo and inviting different creatives to collaborate on it, to the point they've stated as such in the X-Men Monday interview that it's all part of a very constructive group effort. The result is in the passion that comes through in how every storyline, from the big climax in X of Swords: Destruction to the small character moments from Z-listers in Hellions, is developed with care from writers who love these characters, and Hickman has been having a very important job in coordinating it all, no matter if people personally like his writing compared to the other writers in the line or not

The only thing that is holding me to the X-Men is Hellions.

From a horror perspective, I can see how the run is fresh and exciting. Not everyday that you see a slow-burn of treasured heroes be turned into full-on villains and you find yourself be tempted to route for AIs and general humanity.

[QUOTE=SiycoBatSquirrel;5457438]The only thing that is holding me to the X-Men is Hellions.

From a horror perspective, I can see how the run is fresh and exciting. Not everyday that you see a slow-burn of treasured heroes be turned into full-on villains and you find yourself be tempted to route for AIs and general humanity.[/QUOTE]

Oh you went there. I dont think they are straight up villains, but more like anti-heroes with many really very close to become villains

I love the Hickman era. The only one that I considered weak was Excalibur but lately it's been getting better. I look forward to Way of X, Children of the Atom and X-Corp.

Hickman is one of those writers that gets an insane amount of hype for having big cognitive ideas. He often gets compared to Morrison, and Ellis, and I understand some of that comparison, but while Morrison’s big crazy ideas often come with lots of humor, and eccentric and abstract weirdness that can at times be very charming, I don’t feel like Hickman has really been able to capture that. For each big Hickman run lauded by Marvel, I have gone in with the best intentions, but grown tired of having to think so much to read about my favorite characters, and longing for some of the more simplistic fun that a writer like Mark Waid, or Dan Slott could bring...so I suppose, while I respect his ideas, and he’s obviously a smart guy, he’s just not exactly my thing.

Personally, I think it's boring. Cool concept with Krakoa, but having the mutants segregated and not fully participating in broader world events limits the impact, IMO. And I'm fully in favor of them exploring more mutant oriented themes, culture, etc. the way that this story arc has -- but ultimately, I'd prefer to see the X-Books more fully integrated in the broader Marvel Universe than what it's devolved into.

I think Hickman has fallen victim to the macro plot being interesting / engaging, but the micro plots across multiple titles being -- in the main -- lackluster.

All that said, I do really enjoy the multi-media presentation of content. Very clever ways to engage backstory, plot elements that aren't explicitly covered, and engaging the readers in different ways that traditional comic media.

The best the x-men have been in a decade or so, I'm loving it.
Can't wait for expansion and progression.

I think it's amazing, it's the I've looked forward to the X franchise in a long time. I'm still to this keeping up with most of the titles.

With any era there ups and downs. I think some titles aren’t working and that their writers don’t know what to do. Excalibur is one that needs to be retooled with someone that can pull off the ideas that they wanted to do. Howard cannot do it. Marauders is another that I think needs to be retooled a bit. I wish we were getting to see Wells and Ewing writing another book each. Maybe Wells on Marauders and Ewing on Excalibur?

Hickman, Wells and Ewing should be spearheading it together as I think they are the best at what they are doing.


Overall I like this era. It’s not all doom and gloom, but it’s not all roses either.

I actually care to read, since House of M.

[QUOTE=nandes;5457414]Every writer has strenghts and weakness. Hickman has recognized the fact he can't handle everything by expanding the Krakoan status quo and inviting different creatives to collaborate on it, to the point they've stated as such in the X-Men Monday interview that it's all part of a very constructive group effort. The result is in the passion that comes through in how every storyline, from the big climax in X of Swords: Destruction to the small character moments from Z-listers in Hellions, is developed with care from writers who love these characters, and Hickman has been having a very important job in coordinating it all, no matter if people personally like his writing compared to the other writers in the line or not[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's not the point I was making. Or if you are trying to state that several writers working on different titles and issues somehow make up for the general problems that the franchise have now. Problems that are a direct consequence from Hickman. Both in his capacity as showrunner and his philospophy behind his craft. Then just look at how many of those writers are struggeling with the same problems that Hickman have. E.G. characters and pacing.

My point was more about the duality and value of certain elements in storytelling. How Hickmans "excitment and forward thinking" can both be praised and seem irrelevant. Based on both opinions from the reader and a certain value hierarchy in stories. How much is anything worth if other parts don't deliver. An attempt to trying to see how some readers can be a flame by this era and others not. While not trying to reduce it into haters and stans.

Sometimes it comes off like people are losing their mind not having the escapism of watching a group of fucitiknal characters getting blown up and living on the run. I say that because some of the main posters have been registered through all that other stuff with nary a word but now that they are finally getting somewhere all of a sudden those posts are rising.


And that comes off as more diversity, less mutants as victims = worse thing ever to happen to xmen

[QUOTE=Leo;5453919]Initially when Hickman came on board with House of X + Powers of X I was very intrigued by what he was bringing to the table like Claremont, Morrison, Whedon. Initially I found HoX more interesting than PoX. I also thought this was going to be a more concentrated & focused stories between a few books and slowly build on that, but I feel like there has been a repeat of the past of just throwing out various books just to make a quick buck managed by various writers instead of it being totally managed by Hickman himself. Now it just seems like a total mess with a few books less interesting than the next. The concept of Krakoa and having its heroÂ’s and villainÂ’s (some worse than others) living in harmony in some garden of eden a concept that has quickly fizzled out. Some plots have been more interesting than others, but not enough to make me purchase any books. One thing I canÂ’t stand is a lot of times a lot of popular past stories keep getting recycled over and over, deaths mean nothing and donÂ’t have any meaning anymore, and the constant release of books that have no real identity or purpose has caused me to step away. Hopefully things and stories will improve by Hickman taking full control and reeling the X-line back down to 5 core books or so[/QUOTE]

I also don't get people need to streamline the books. It's like if you don't want to buy them all then don't buy them. Those of us who want to we do and it allows us to read more character than just the few whedon picked or Morrison (both main teams pretty much only white people as the main human like mutants for the most of it. Marvel loses money producing books that people don't buy not readers.

This is the best X-Men I've read in at least a decade. Only books, I don't follow are X-Force, Wolverine and Excal. Everything else I either love and for the most part enjoy. Ups, doens and all.

Honestly without this Krakoan status quo the X-Men would still be a dull as wet toast.

I welcome whatever Hickman's world has to offer and, I can, but at the same time [i]can't[/i] wait till we get into the climax of Moira's last life to see how he wraps it all up.

[QUOTE=jwatson;5458129]I also don't get people need to streamline the books. It's like if you don't want to buy them all then don't buy them. Those of us who want to we do and it allows us to read more character than just the few whedon picked or Morrison (both main teams pretty much only white people as the main human like mutants for the most of it. Marvel loses money producing books that people don't buy not readers.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same. Although currently I'm only reading SWORD I appreciate having options. I'm not sure why some feel the need to buy all the books of they don't like all the books. I personally only buy what interest me, no need in wasting money lol

[QUOTE=jwatson;5458129]I also don't get people need to streamline the books. It's like if you don't want to buy them all then don't buy them. Those of us who want to we do and it allows us to read more character than just the few whedon picked or Morrison (both main teams pretty much only white people as the main human like mutants for the most of it. Marvel loses money producing books that people don't buy not readers.[/QUOTE]

For me it's a matter of keeping the whole line successful, all the books relevant and all the writers working in sync which can get increasingly difficult to do when you keep expanding. From a sales standpoint, look at how successful HOX/POX were versus where sales are now. A slow downward spiral is typical of most comics series however I think it's also easy to see a connection between that and the ongoing expansion of the X-line. You do 5 books and they all debut with X amount of pre-orders. You do 12 books and see where you land with the likes of X-Corp and Way of X. That in turn creates the narrative that Hickman's run is not selling well when it's in fact corporate greed that's eroding its success.

I had stopped reading X-men books consistently, as they have all been pretty boring retreads. Another Jean Grey resurrection, another phoenix, another time-traveling X-team, etc.

Yes, Hickman's direction makes them lose a large part of the 'persecution of mutants' aspect of things, but we've already seen 50+ years of that. Most of the previous events have continued that same story but trying to dress it a new coat of paint to make it interesting (Probably a pitch someone made: How about mutants are persecuted by a cloud? And then they have to live in Limbo? How great does that sound?!)

It definitely was time for something new, and Hickman's xbooks have given us that. Certainly, it hasn't been at the level that the beginning issues set (Powers of X, etc.), but it has all been consistently interesting (Excalibur being the one exception for me, with the magic angle just not resonating with me).

Humans persecuting mutants is still there, its just punted to the back burner for the future (see HoX/PoX future timelines), which allows for the current series to show (1) whether the future can be avoided, or (2) the height before the fall.

I'm aware that a large percentage of X-fans are gonna bitch no matter who the creative team behind the X-line is or what sort of stories/titles the X-line is putting out. And that's fine. I had my time in that mindset for almost a decade. My two cents? Hickman's era is the most cohesive the line has been since the Decimation era, and I tend to enjoy the X-men more and purchase more titles when there is a cohesive story being told. I'll admit, it's not flawless, and it's progressing at a slower pace than I'd like, but I trust that Hickman knows what he's doing and that when he does decide to pivot or accelerate his endgame, I won't be disappointed.

Even though they're acting out of character or cult-like, it's nice to see mutants finally emerge as the dominant species. They're forcing the global economy to rely on them, and they're using that pressure for political benefits. They're expanding their territory, adventuring into magical/multiversal realms and outer space. I'm sad this new status quo is never going to last, but I'm getting a kick out of things working out well for mutants for once, for the most part.

[QUOTE=Uncanny X-Man;5458268]For me it's a matter of keeping the whole line successful, all the books relevant and all the writers working in sync which can get increasingly difficult to do when you keep expanding. From a sales standpoint, look at how successful HOX/POX were versus where sales are now. A slow downward spiral is typical of most comics series however I think it's also easy to see a connection between that and the ongoing expansion of the X-line. You do 5 books and they all debut with X amount of pre-orders. You do 12 books and see where you land with the likes of X-Corp and Way of X. That in turn creates the narrative that Hickman's run is not selling well when it's in fact corporate greed that's eroding its success.[/QUOTE]

I just see it from the perspective that i am a consumer. I don't have any personal stake in the whole line, i don't care if it is setting the world on fire or not all i care about is if i'm entertained. At the end of the day marvel is not cutting me a check and so i try to approach it simply from consumer level because that is all that matters to me. As such the x-line is much more healthy if people like me have options and can buy what we want than to be stuck with fewer books we casts we have no interest in reading about, and things we don't want to see and thereby limiting the amount of potential sales you have. For me i can read about any x-book but when there are only 3 or 4 books and everybody white, that bothers me a lot more than if it sales or not.

Maybe i just see it a little different. Living a life of barely getting representation in materials you buy you care more about what you feel the quality and entertainment level is for yourself than if it will be gone tomorrow because it wasn't a success. Like i love NAruto but if it got cancelled when i was watching it i would be all like "Well weren't, any black ninjas anyway." and move on.

I'm enjoying the satellite titles but I really wish Hickman would move along his main plots. I want more on Orchis and the Nimrods and the Blackhole Gods and Moira and Destiny. Those are what made me interested in the first place; the resurrections and Krakoa were secondary.

[QUOTE=jwatson;5458364]I just see it from the perspective that i am a consumer. I don't have any personal stake in the whole line, i don't care if it is setting the world on fire or not all i care about is if i'm entertained. At the end of the day marvel is not cutting me a check and so i try to approach it simply from consumer level because that is all that matters to me. As such the x-line is much more healthy if people like me have options and can buy what we want than to be stuck with fewer books we casts we have no interest in reading about, and things we don't want to see and thereby limiting the amount of potential sales you have. For me i can read about any x-book but when there are only 3 or 4 books and everybody white, that bothers me a lot more than if it sales or not.
[/QUOTE]

I’m really surprised that people are against the larger number of books because one of the main complaints I heard before this era was, “My fave isn’t even showing up in the books so I don’t care.” So many different mutants are at least getting a chance to shine. If they were somehow able to have 5 to 6 titles with huge team lineups that didn’t crumble under the pressure of balancing the casts then I’d be down for that. I will say that having a lot of books can be a financial burden and I totally empathize (and deal with) that.

[QUOTE=Hellion;5458301]
[b]Even though they're acting out of character or cult-like, it's nice to see mutants finally emerge as the dominant species. [/b]They're forcing the global economy to rely on them, and they're using that pressure for political benefits. They're expanding their territory, adventuring into magical/multiversal realms and outer space. I'm sad this new status quo is never going to last, but I'm getting a kick out of things working out well for mutants for once, for the most part.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what X-men never stood for and the minority alegory is even lmore botched and irrelevant

[QUOTE=Uncanny X-Man;5458268]For me it's a matter of keeping the whole line successful, all the books relevant and all the writers working in sync which can get increasingly difficult to do when you keep expanding. From a sales standpoint, look at how successful HOX/POX were versus where sales are now. A slow downward spiral is typical of most comics series however I think it's also easy to see a connection between that and the ongoing expansion of the X-line. You do 5 books and they all debut with X amount of pre-orders. You do 12 books and see where you land with the likes of X-Corp and Way of X. That in turn creates the narrative that Hickman's run is not selling well when it's in fact corporate greed that's eroding its success.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's better for the line have less book but better written. Have a lot of book than using skip months to publish them is very dumb, they are jump out points.
Diversity can happen with less books, it isn't excuse to launch a lot of badly selling books that few people gonna read

It's going great actually. It's breathed new life into the XMEN, and made them the talk of the town again.

Hickman is doing great (this coming from someone who is very critical of cis white straight writers) and he is also giving lots of writers their own time to shine (Tini and now Duggan).

It does suck however if you are a fan of Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee, Iceman, Bishop. But that if more the fault of other writers than Hickman. I guess the lack of X23 can be blamed on Hickman.

Yes, XofSwords went on way too long but that was editorial trying to milk more money during the COVID crisis.

[QUOTE]Even though they're acting out of character or cult-like, it's nice to see mutants finally emerge as the dominant species. [/QUOTE]

I've seen this sentiment going around a lot and it really surprises me. Why do people think it's shocking that a minority group (that has been brutally murdered their whole history) wouldn't be humble after rising to power? Seems weird to assume minorities are all super saints. And that the only way to be respected as a minority is to act like you're always the humble victim even when they've risen to power.

Also, people complaining that the books aren't the same quality as HOX/POX? Really? Did you think it would? Did we really think we'd get a Moira sized reveal every other issue for the next 5 years or so?

The original Phoenix Sage took around 3 years to tell. Today's audience would deem that story a failure because it's taking too long to get to the big reveals. Lots of readers expect a shocking action packed reveal every other issue. And when they do get that, then they'll complain nonstop about recons, cheap stunts and writing with no depth.

Never been, OP, never been…

[QUOTE=RamaBird;5458654]I've seen this sentiment going around a lot and it really surprises me. Why do people think it's shocking that a minority group (that has been brutally murdered their whole history) wouldn't be humble after rising to power? Seems weird to assume minorities are all super saints. And that the only way to be respected as a minority is to act like you're always the humble victim even when they've risen to power.[/QUOTE]

My thinking is that maybe readers are offended that mutants won't hang out with humans anymore, and took that emotionally like [U]they don't wanna be friends with us anymore. Period[/U]. And that hurt, I presume, since readers have feelings and took this personal. Which to me is mindboggling. It's fiction... never was, never will be real world, never will cross over in real world.

[QUOTE=Rang10;5458521]This is exactly what X-men never stood for and the minority alegory is even lmore botched and irrelevant[/QUOTE]

You're not wrong. The X-men are meant to represent social minorities. At the same time, however, we've been told repeatedly that the concept of "mutants" in the Marvel Universe are meant to be the next stage in human evolution. The problem is that in order for the latter to matter, the former is going to have to become irrelevant at some point. We've had 50+ years of mutants as hated, feared and hunted minorities. We've had countless "extinction" stories. Hickman's just the first writer to tackle the "next stage in human evolution" concept aggressively by allowing themes like species dominance and species competition to play out on a grander scale than we've seen so far. It's new, so I'm all for it.

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5458507]I’m really surprised that people are against the larger number of books because one of the main complaints I heard before this era was, “My fave isn’t even showing up in the books so I don’t care.” So many different mutants are at least getting a chance to shine. If they were somehow able to have 5 to 6 titles with huge team lineups that didn’t crumble under the pressure of balancing the casts then I’d be down for that. I will say that having a lot of books can be a financial burden and I totally empathize (and deal with) that.[/QUOTE]

Personally I'm glad we're getting a million books, it gives the people options. The cast is way too big for just Uncanny,Xforce, and Wolverine solo.

[QUOTE=Hellion;5458687]You're not wrong. The X-men are meant to represent social minorities. At the same time, however, we've been told repeatedly that the concept of "mutants" in the Marvel Universe are meant to be the next stage in human evolution. The problem is that in order for the latter to matter, the former is going to have to become irrelevant at some point. We've had 50+ years of mutants as hated, feared and hunted minorities. We've had countless "extinction" stories. Hickman's just the first writer to tackle the "next stage in human evolution" concept aggressively by allowing themes like species dominance and species competition to play out on a grander scale than we've seen so far. It's new, so I'm all for it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they weren't mean to mirror minorities. But Hickman and many fans are using it as justificative for them acting as villains now. A lot of criticism was met with "they are aminority, you are just afraid of minorities getting power", it has been used a shield to not address x-men acting out of character

[QUOTE=RamaBird;5458654]It's going great actually. It's breathed new life into the XMEN, and made them the talk of the town again.

Hickman is doing great (this coming from someone who is very critical of cis white straight writers) and he is also giving lots of writers their own time to shine (Tini and now Duggan).

It does suck however if you are a fan of Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee, Iceman, Bishop. But that if more the fault of other writers than Hickman. I guess the lack of X23 can be blamed on Hickman.

Yes, XofSwords went on way too long but that was editorial trying to milk more money during the COVID crisis.



I've seen this sentiment going around a lot and it really surprises me. Why do people think it's shocking that a minority group (that has been brutally murdered their whole history) wouldn't be humble after rising to power? Seems weird to assume minorities are all super saints. And that the only way to be respected as a minority is to act like you're always the humble victim even when they've risen to power.

Also, people complaining that the books aren't the same quality as HOX/POX? Really? Did you think it would? Did we really think we'd get a Moira sized reveal every other issue for the next 5 years or so?

The original Phoenix Sage took around 3 years to tell. Today's audience would deem that story a failure because it's taking too long to get to the big reveals. Lots of readers expect a shocking action packed reveal every other issue. And when they do get that, then they'll complain nonstop about recons, cheap stunts and writing with no depth.[/QUOTE]

Tini did a drag of event, and I don't expect any better from Duggan. his infinity eent on guardians was so bad.

of couse it is never Hickman fault, it's not like he doesn't write books that could have Bishop, Rogue and Gambit.

Well it plays straight into white supremacy discourse hat when minorities get power, they gonna go after white people. it is a true disservice to minorities

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5458507]I’m really surprised that people are against the larger number of books because one of the main complaints I heard before this era was, “My fave isn’t even showing up in the books so I don’t care.” So many different mutants are at least getting a chance to shine. If they were somehow able to have 5 to 6 titles with huge team lineups that didn’t crumble under the pressure of balancing the casts then I’d be down for that. I will say that having a lot of books can be a financial burden and I totally empathize (and deal with) that.[/QUOTE]

I think some of the comments here answers part of the question for me. It's that those who do see the xmen as representation for minority groups somehow either only see minority groups as oppressed or will only accept them as being a minority group if they are being oppressed. Which is strange thinking to me. Almost as though they should be denied access to a better living because the second they step out of that bubble they become a threat.

And i definitely understand what you mean about how it can be a financial burden and that in of itself is why we have to make choices. one meal at outback is 30 bucks most cases, i just bought me a break down of comics by skipping it. i try to think like that.