What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5540157]Yeah I agree with those statements. It's just weird to me that fans are so quick to call all of Krakoa a supremacist nation (and have actively been against their new segregationist views), but then they want mutants to give humans the benefit of the doubt and not generalize them based on the actions of some few governments and particularly hateful individuals. I figured the thought of reintegrating would make fans who hate this era happy, but I guess not.

Also want to note that this could not be the case at all and we're really just speculating off of one poster's amazing theory.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see them reintegrate, that would make me happy (along with the upcoming proper X-Men team), but I can see where it can go wrong in the current canon. Krakoa isn't full on supremacist but it's present in places it shouldn't be and that's fine, there's a story to tell there, but pretending that it's not there is silly.

[QUOTE=cranger;5540191]Forget terms like that. The problem is not humans evolving, as that is the goal and is what humans are doing by giving birth to 'mutants', but humans evolving based on AI which is where the conflicts in Moira's lives come from.[/QUOTE]

So they'll hasten the problem instead of avoiding it, classic storytelling.

[QUOTE=cranger;5540297]Not to argue, as I have the same hope that Marvel gets past the extinction gimmick, but there are two problems: nothing Hickman does is going to stop someone else from writing another extinction arc, and technically this is an extinction arc (although only a handful of characters are aware).[/QUOTE]

Yep.

people treat Rosenberg run as a proof that X-men was always going into extinction story without Hickman, when in reality it was a pre-Hickman story to make people happy with whatever Hickman brings.

This was very clever frm their part, I just feel bad for Rosenberg being tasked this dirty job

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5540349]I'd like to see them reintegrate, that would make me happy (along with the upcoming proper X-Men team), but I can see where it can go wrong in the current canon. Krakoa isn't full on supremacist but it's present in places it shouldn't be and that's fine, there's a story to tell there, but pretending that it's not there is silly.[/QUOTE]

I think the secrets is the enough tonot make it work. Moira has her own endgame and it doesn't look pretty

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5540358]So they'll hasten the problem instead of avoiding it, classic storytelling.[/QUOTE]
No. Well, there is some setup done already that says yes, the AI will try to keep up and that is reconfirmed with the Vault realizing it needs to advance again, but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is they are trying to find a way to beat the AI to the next step, to make humans not turn to AI, to make sure mutants become the dominant next step by doing what AI has been doing: making human life easier.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5540321]Because now there's even less tension to any deaths. There isn't even the illusion of permanence.[/QUOTE]

I will never get the tension or emotion if I know it is an illusion.
I do believe resurrection opens the door to some very interesting stories IF they are done right.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5540358]So they'll hasten the problem instead of avoiding it, classic storytelling.[/QUOTE]

Factual point:

[url]https://external-preview.redd.it/prEJNkrMqBvK9carq-HMORonDKSFju08LckPNDWWwnQ.jpg?auto=webp&ed6002b5[/url]

The creation of Krakoa is exactly what triggers the Orchis Protocols.

I'd like us to come out of this era with the X-Men finally realising that true co-existence (not forced acceptance) is not a beautiful ideology, but the only practical way to go. No mutant nation will ever survive if mutants aren't first actually accepted. And, for me, the most obvious way (although it’s not an easy way) for that to happen would be if both mutants and gene-typical humans realised they are, objectively, part of the same species.

The idea that mutants are an endangered species is conceptually wrong. Gene-typical humans and mutants are so genetically close they can freely reproduce. The offspring of two gene-typical humans can be mutant (Charles Xavier, the O5, etc...). The offspring of two mutants can be gene-typical (Gaydon Creed). And there doesn't seem to be any difficulty in mating between a mutant and a gene-typical human (David Haller, Lorna Dane, etc...).

But the idea of being an “endangered species” has been at the centre of what has motivated the X-Men for so long that few people even question it. One of the reasons I’m still somewhat interested in Hickman’s run is the hope that this will change.

I don’t think this will happen, though…


Note: Another conceptual problem: if you remove mutants from the [I]Homo sapiens[/I] species, how else could you accept that humans are, in fact, evolving unless such evolution is machine/AI-driven? If you declare any mutation creates a different species, you are putting [I]Homo sapiens[/I] in an evolutionary prison that only accepts evolution if it's non-biological.

[QUOTE=BroHomo;5540041]As evidence where? You know you can't just spout out whatever you want. It had to be true or at least canon[/QUOTE]

OK…

[IMG]https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/CABLE2020001-Preview3412-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=738&h=1120[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Dunkelzahn;5540264]If nothing else this version made me wonder again what comes next. And that did not happen for quite some time for me in an X-Men comic. The last years it was just one looming Extinction after the other. If the current run would be just putting an end to that idea it would be enough.[/QUOTE]

And it is what annoys the most in this attitude: so many fans are ready to accept anything as long as it doesn’t look like Extinction. Their bar is rather low.

Personally I would accept anything, even the end of the X-men, as long as the characterization was not changed (which is the case now). What is the point in having X-men comics if the X-men are not the X-men?

After all, everything comes to an end eventually… to give space to something new and more up-to-date. This will to do something new with something old is tiring… It disappoints old fans without necessarily winning a lot of new ones.

[QUOTE=Zelena;5540815]OK…

[IMG]https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/CABLE2020001-Preview3412-5.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=738&h=1120[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I think there are many better options to make your case. This scene doesn't prove Silver Samurai thinks mutants are superior to humans, he's clearly referring to Cable beating Wolverine in the sparring match.

[IMG]https://i1.wp.com/graphicpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/house-of-x-magneto.png?w=527&ssl=1[/IMG]

I would use this example as a starting point to say the mutants think they are superior.

I think the whole mutant supremacism angle isn't actually a thing in any way shape or form, outside of the mutants that already held that opinion, but there are some panels through out the Hickman era that I would listen to an argument for it. Honestly though it seems to only pop up on these boards, I don't really see it in other forums or on X-Twitter.

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5540141]So in one thread it’s a “supremacist nation” and in another it’s a “minority safe space”. Good to know.[/QUOTE]
Lol right? Like make up your mind
[QUOTE=Metal Sphere;5540147]

I noticed the same thing Rang10 has picked up on. It's a steady drip feeding of supremacist and/or anti-human sentiments from many corners of Krakoa. A backhanded compliment to humans here, sneering at humanity's "dead end" status (from the perspective of mutants), outright slurs, Trinary tip toeing around saying something insulting about human created things but then Monet flatly states it out loud. It's consistent enough that I'm almost certain this was something discussed at a writers retreat for the whole line. If the goal is for some utopian co-existence model on Mars with Storm heading it, I think beliefs like these will be corrosive to the effort at a whole. [/QUOTE]
Sooooo Mutant supremacy i.e. sneers and jeers =the death of any idea of peaceful coexisting.
Sentinels, Genosha, Mutant Registration Act, T-Cloud...I'd just invitations to keep coming back from being beaten to mud to try again? That's a chump a$$ deal
[QUOTE=Metal Sphere;5540147]Replacing each of these instances with an actual racial or religious slur makes it abundantly clear how bad this is. [/QUOTE]
lol replace those words with what heros call any villians and you get that lol

[QUOTE=Metal Sphere;5540147]That was just looking at the comments in isolation. When applying the context of Krakoa, its laws and culture (of celebrating mutant powers, mutant culture, mutants no longer knowing death or disease, and so on) I can see Hizashi's point of humans being instant second class citizens in any mutant society, or planet. You'd simultaneously be a symbol of the oppressors that made the mutants around you suffer AND you're a vulnerable minority without the ability to retaliate against creatures you can't kill or harm. And in the eyes of many, you'd be a perfect scapegoat if there was any attack on mutant society. [B]Rationally, it'd be stupid to move yourself and your family into such a position.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
I mean sure but we see no evidence of that with Kyle or the human refugees that stayed on KraKoa. Sooo why should Mutants be the ones that have to do it?
[QUOTE=Rang10;5540144]These two co-exist on real life. We are seeing it happen. and there is a lot of examples to get out of it[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rang10;5540135]Some of them no, A lot of them. I just gave few examples. Some of the high raking goverment and most important people there are Mutant supremacists, so yeah who would be crazy to integrate to s supremacist nation.[/QUOTE]
lol imean if that were the case I doubt the world would be in the relative peace it's in lol


[QUOTE=Rang10;5540407]
Yep.

[B]people treat Rosenberg run as a proof that X-men was always going into extinction story [/B]without Hickman, when in reality it was a pre-Hickman story to make people happy with whatever Hickman brings.
[/QUOTE]
Ehh I'd say Genosha... M-Day... T-Cloud were pretty big indicators lol

[QUOTE=Rang10;5540407]I think the secrets is the enough tonot make it work. Moira has her own endgame and it doesn't look pretty[/QUOTE]
Yeah mutants living in peace ... horrible

[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5540835]I think there are many better options to make your case. This scene doesn't prove Silver Samurai thinks mutants are superior to humans, he's clearly referring to Cable beating Wolverine in the sparring match.

[/QUOTE]
Siiigh EXACTLY! lmao

[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5540835]I think there are many better options to make your case. This scene doesn't prove Silver Samurai thinks mutants are superior to humans, he's clearly referring to Cable beating Wolverine in the sparring match.[/QUOTE]

They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.

Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?

[QUOTE=Zelena;5541015]They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.

Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?[/QUOTE]

le sigh...
Who would Silver Samurai be declaring that to? Ain't no humans around? Aaaand how is Cable besting Wolverine proof of anything? It 2 rabbits fight does the winner now superior to velociraptors?
You ever been to sporting competition and the one team wins or dominates the other? Do you take that literally? lol Or for example...Worldwide Soccer is the most popular sport... but in America Football 'reigns supreme'

American football is superior to soccer. Everyone knows that.

[QUOTE=BroHomo;5541084]le sigh...
Who would Silver Samurai be declaring that to? [B]Ain't no humans around?[/B] Aaaand how is Cable besting Wolverine proof of anything? It 2 rabbits fight does the winner now superior to velociraptors?
You ever been to sporting competition and the one team wins or dominates the other? Do you take that literally? lol Or for example...Worldwide Soccer is the most popular sport... but in America Football 'reigns supreme'[/QUOTE]

i don't disagree with the point your trying to make and i don't think the intent of this scene is to come off that way, but just because humans aren't around to hear it doesn't mean mutant supremacy talk suddenly doesn't count. like white supremacy rhetoric doesn't suddenly just not exist until a black person is nearby to hear it. they do it just as much amongst themselves to reaffirm there own beliefs.

On an island of so many mutants, some villainous, some heroic, villains turned hero, some children, some adults...so many personalities of ALL types...of course there will be some with such extreme views as "mutant supremacy". And certainly no big surprise that people like Cortez, Magneto, Exodus and o--[A]--o would be the ones to express that sentiment but...

Why is the whole mutant populace being tarred and feathered with the same MS brush?

Especially when it's perfectly clear that there are other prominent mutants who clearly don't subscribe to that ideology.