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[QUOTE=Rev9;5542193]More likely than not if X-Men operate outside Krakoa and embrace a neutral stance between humanity and mutants.It will put them at odds with their own kind and a Krakoan schism will most likely lead to its collapse.If not, then we'll go back to the X-Men living among humanity and Krakoa(like the morlocks)isolating themselves and having brotherhood type animus.In a way nothing is new under the sun that is why Moira life 11 is the failsafe.;)[/QUOTE]
I think the krakoa schism is going to happen soon. If not during the trial of magnet then soon after.
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[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5542064]Cable is considered the better fighter... no matter how wrong that actually is, but that’s what SS was referring to.[/QUOTE]
I think they’re pretty even on the fighting skills front. It’s just that Cable’s bag of tricks is deeper (i.e., gadgets and weapons) and he also has his powers, which in this case he certainly used to his benefit. They’re the only two X-characters who had Level 7 fighting ability back in the old Fleer Marvel cards days, with the old power rankings. Man, I loved those things. :cool:
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[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5537173]Magneto at least has 30+ years of going back and forth, Apocalypse was a genocidal mad man with a pop-culture approach to eugenics up until right before HoXPoX, and is now considered the X-Men’s eccentric uncle whose genocidal actions across millennia are right and proper[/QUOTE]
That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.
Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.
In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5541276]Ugh I know right judging a whole nation of people based on the actions or ideas of a few of it's citizens is like grody to the max
Not here it ain't
Errr this is Magnero on chill mode.
And whyyy is it not the same for human governments? Ya know the ones that allowed giant death robots to operate and "apprehend" Mutants or allow crazy robots like Bastian to seize power, experiment on reg people turning them into smaller but just as deadly robots to deal with the mutant problem... Or the ones that facilitated the Mother Mold, or that were complacent when Mutants were being gassed to death? Y'all reeeeally gonna say that after a that Mutsbts I power or outta power need to chill in their remarks towards these same governments??
True True it just didn't much much sense to me given the context[/QUOTE]
Are any of us defending human government's for doing that?
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.
Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.
[B]In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/B][/QUOTE]
They certainly seem more like the latter in that context.
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[QUOTE=Zelena;5541015]They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.
Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?[/QUOTE]
What are Cable’s powers, exactly? If you could define Cable’s powers better than Marvel, which shouldn’t be a problem given Marvel has been dropping the ball on that for 30+ years, then I could tell you if Wolverine is considered less of a mutant than Cable due to powers.
Last I knew, Cable’s only power we knew of for sure was “big, giant guns.”
I think it is possible that “big, giant guns” as an offensive super power might beat out Wolverine’s super powers.
Cable is the greatest omega-level mutant for big, giant guns.
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.
Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.
In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/QUOTE]
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
That seems to be the point of some of the writing in the current X-books, it's setting up that ambiguity quite nicely in my opinion.
The question "are we the bad guys" hasn't been asked directly by anyone yet, but some mutants (specifically Nightcrawler, Cyclops and Jean, Storm, Wolverine and a couple of others) are quite conflicted, at least it seems so to me.
I'm glad it's a slow burn, it's keeping that sinister undertone and a feeling of dread. It's getting better in my opinion.
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/QUOTE]
Like any group, they follow their own logic…
By being the defenders of the mutants, first and foremost, the X-men express necessarily a preference. They do it also by being the allies of Magneto, Apocalypse and co. It leaves a gap for other groups to take up the torch.
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542589]They certainly seem more like the latter in that context.[/QUOTE]
Their methods are pretty villain based, like testing on mutants kids and children of the vault. HUmanity have the right to defend theirselves ut it has a limit on ethics and morality
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I don´t think anyone who wants to solve things killing off the general population of the other side can be called the "good guys" no matter if they are human, mutant, kree, skrull etc. :) that´s my one pet peeve so no I don´t see Orchis as "protectors" or "good guys at all" that said as antagonist they have been quite passive but well maybe that will be addressed in the future.
but I agree so far X-writers have done a good job keeping us wondering if the X-villains will get up to something or if Orchis will reveal it´s hand so far I think they have done a good job showing reasons why some of them like Shaw, Apocalypse, Mystique, Selene, Mastermind would like to keep the status quo on krakoa but by doing so they have left behind the X-men part of the story, with the exception of Wolverine, so now that we will get a new X-men team we will get more of the main X-men pov´s of things.
So far I think the writers have done a good job showing how the mere existence of Krakoa practically allows a space for redemption or at least a cease of fire between mutankind and humanity and that on itself is a good thing and still the main tension about what they will do in the future is still there but also a possibility for change.
In Magneto´s case is interesting because this is pretty much his dream come truth so he´s 100% doing the best he can to hold it together between all mutant groups and the biggest irony would be, if the trial is a clue, if he´s the reason why it gets an schism and still I see him so convinced this is the best way to solve everything, that he´s the kind of character who would rather go down with the ship than leave it, so I am quite curious what justification will be there for him to rock the boat because it must be pretty stron and I believe it involves the well being of mutants on Krakoa.
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100% agree, LucyintheSky...your diamonds are perfection.
I'm loving the tension of and in this era.
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I like the tension too in this era. I wonder how tense it will get between humanity and mutantkind once the world finds out what happened to the people of Terra Verde.
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[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542708]I don´t think anyone who wants to solve things killing off the general population of the other side can be called the "good guys" no matter if they are human, mutant, kree, skrull etc. :) that´s my one pet peeve so no I don´t see Orchis as "protectors" or "good guys at all" that said as antagonist they have been quite passive but well maybe that will be addressed in the future. [/QUOTE]
But is that what Orchis is presented as doing? Even in the future, it is shown that Orchis’ descendants like the homo novissima have preserved homo superior, mutants, not eradicated them. The mutants aren’t even being invited to the machine singularity with the Phalanx. It seems to me Orchis and its Sentinels do not actually intend to destroy mutants entirely. Genocide may not be their goal in the most strict sense.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5542716]100% agree, LucyintheSky...your diamonds are perfection.
I'm loving the tension of and in this era.[/QUOTE]
Me too I hope to see some of that tension in the Gala so we know the path forward planned by the writers, I hope they deliver :)
[QUOTE=Brian B;5542732][B]But is that what Orchis is presented as doing? [/B]Even in the future, it is shown that Orchis’ descendants like the homo novissima have preserved homo superior, mutants, not eradicated them. The mutants aren’t even being invited to the machine singularity with the Phalanx. It seems to me Orchis and its Sentinels do not actually intend to destroy mutants entirely. Genocide may not be their goal in the most strict sense.[/QUOTE]
[B]
"In the most strict sense"[/B] yet they have got a city whose sole purpose is building Nimrod level sentinels so they can rain over Krakoa just like they did before on Utopia. So even if it´s not in the most strict sense it´s still planned genocide and that´s not what "good guys are supposed to be" unless they changed the meaning of the word.
Mutants left the planet to Shi ar space after centuries of War between mutants and humans and after that they decided to stop even the possibility of more mutants being born from them by mixing with machines becoming part sentinel and part human.That´s also genocide at a genetic level because they decided to change their very nature hoping to end the existence of mutants, even those born from their population.
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5542605]What are Cable’s powers, exactly? If you could define Cable’s powers better than Marvel, which shouldn’t be a problem given Marvel has been dropping the ball on that for 30+ years, then I could tell you if Wolverine is considered less of a mutant than Cable due to powers.
Last I knew, Cable’s only power we knew of for sure was “big, giant guns.”
I think it is possible that “big, giant guns” as an offensive super power might beat out Wolverine’s super powers.
Cable is the greatest omega-level mutant for big, giant guns.[/QUOTE]
As I think this is a joke but am not quite 100% sure, I’ll keep it short and sweet. Cable has psychic abilities, specifically telepathy and telekinesis, though those powers are impacted by the techno-organic virus he was infected with as a baby. As such, at various times his powers have ranged from virtually non-existent to “god mode” (omega level) based on what’s going on with the virus in his system (i.e., when it’s active and/or flaring up, his powers are nerfed; when it’s inactive/in remission, his power levels are amped up).
His default ever since the early 90s has been basically low level TP and TK, though, augmented by those “big, giant guns” and now a “big ass sword.” :cool:
