The reason I got into the X-Men was because of their ideals, the dream. So yes, two straight years of abandoning the dream and trying to wait it out till they hopefully get back to it (though it's seeming more and more like liking the dream has suddenly become a minority opinion) is getting to be a chore.
what are you all disagreeing about?
Whether or not the X-Men ditching the dream makes sense and is a good idea to be a permanent change to the franchise.
[QUOTE=cranger;5491014]Nevermind the fact that most of the criticism is really on Hickman for writing that in as an excuse, and let's be clear, that is the main problem: Hickman decided to write this based on something he made up and that tone he set is what people might have a problem with.
But, let's just ignore the truth of the matter and pretend that the MU magically creates stories that are real or something, and even if Moira believes this, even if Moira convinced Xavier to believe this, and for some reason Magneto decided to play along. The vast majority, the hundreds of thousands of mutants in the MU have no idea Moira thinks the robots are going to kill them. The mutants, X-Men, who grew up on Xaviers dreams and speeches and teachings and those inspired by him, have no idea Moira thinks robots are going to kill them.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, exactly. It's not that complicated an issue.
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491041]The reason I got into the X-Men was because of their ideals, the dream. So yes, two straight years of abandoning the dream and trying to wait it out till they hopefully get back to it (though it's seeming more and more like liking the dream has suddenly become a minority opinion) is getting to be a chore.[/QUOTE]
If it's not for you it's not for you but it does make sense you just don't like the reasons
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5491020]A) not every mutant is living on Krakoa
B) Mutants are free to go and come as they want. There is no choice between the two. Krakoa is a place for mutant to be safe and is protected by fellow mutants
C) Villains who have been enemies of different countries are given a free chance to start over with Krakoa no strings attached instead of being on the run and fighting other mutants[/QUOTE]
A and B were true of Utopia, although they didn't work with Sinister or Apocalypse. Still, those X-Men were wrong or something despite the threat being clear and in front of them, but these X-Men are fully justified in actually foregoing the dream even though they can't all possibly know about Moira.
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5491061]If it's not for you it's not for you but it does make sense you just don't like the reasons[/QUOTE]
I just hope it's not permanent and the X-Men remember their beliefs again. Otherwise it'd be like if Superior Spider-Man ended with Ock becoming the permanent new Spidey instead of Peter Parker.
Honestly i just don't get how people can have the minsdet like that. It must be a privledge thing is all i can think about and im more than willing to admit i could be wrong. If you are being hunted and killed and the xmen are the only ones in the universe who protects mutants and things got as bad as they did in rosenburg run, is it really that hard to believe you would go to a place to feel safe and then figure it out later. The fact that some people can't seem to wrap there mind around that is what gets me. The vast majority mutants know they are being hunted and killed right now and Xavier and the x-men have always been there.
I don't see how "Krakoa existing" and "the X-Men acting in character and still believe in the dream" must now be completely separate things. Hopefully the new book proves me wrong but I don't see why they ha e to give up their dream forever to in order to do so.
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491074]I don't see how "Krakoa existing" and "the X-Men acting in character and still believe in the dream" must now be completely separate things. Hopefully the new book proves me wrong but I don't see why they ha e to give up their dream forever to in order to do so.[/QUOTE]
So why don't the main books mu create a book with humans reaching out to mutants. I much rather see that. Why does one side always have to do the reaching. i don't see anyone asking for the "human" side of books to show that. Maybe Avengers:Outreach
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491081]So why don't the main books mu create a book with humans reaching out to mutants. I much rather see that. Why does one side always have to do the reaching. i don't see anyone asking for the "human" side of books to show that. Maybe Avengers:Outreach[/QUOTE]
The human side of the books are sometimes the only ones that remember mutants have human friends, like She-Hulk
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491081]So why don't the main books mu create a book with humans reaching out to mutants. I much rather see that. Why does one side always have to do the reaching. i don't see anyone asking for the "human" side of books to show that. Maybe Avengers:Outreach[/QUOTE]
I'm right there with you on this I want both this and what [B]gonnagiveittoya[/B] is saying. They don't have to be contradictory.
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491088]The human side of the books are sometimes the only ones that remember mutants have human friends, like She-Hulk[/QUOTE]
Shehulk was acting like Logan living on Krakoa was somehow wrong when she has a safe place in her apartment. I have read she hulk including her solo that was done recently in which she was going to therapy. Even Uncanny Avengers that started out supposedly being about mutant/human relations wasn't really, it was a book with xmen for it to sell.
If the avengers can make registration act books, outlaw books, etc, they couldn't take the time to show mutants reaction to it being that the laws affect everyone in the marvel u? Cap couldn't save any background mutants but he saves normal humans all the times. Little things like that is on the writer, editor, artist for taking for granted those things didn't matter or fans were only absorbing their perspective. If they can do mutant force during heroes reborn they can definitely dedicate a book to coexistence because if we are honest that is the only place it will actually happen if it does. So i would posit the main office is more afraid of change as evident by this last year of storyline over there.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491066]Honestly i just don't get how people can have the minsdet like that. It must be a privledge thing is all i can think about and im more than willing to admit i could be wrong. If you are being hunted and killed and the xmen are the only ones in the universe who protects mutants and things got as bad as they did in rosenburg run, is it really that hard to believe you would go to a place to feel safe and then figure it out later. The fact that some people can't seem to wrap there mind around that is what gets me. The vast majority mutants know they are being hunted and killed right now and Xavier and the x-men have always been there.[/QUOTE]
What I'm saying is that you're correct about the average mutant perspective but that isn't how the X-Men should operate.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491109]What I'm saying is that you're correct about the average mutant perspective but that isn't how the X-Men should operate.[/QUOTE]
But they aren't. Right now the xmen are setting up a safe place, getting mutants their so they can't be used or abused and then they go out into a world that still hates them and try to make change by doing good works. Humans slowly start to see mutants can be helpful and minds start to change. But still the main line has to change the stories they do because when they create those things, mutants would have been affected. Now they can do all the registration stories they want but it's not in their best interest. But people are like instead of following the story "i want to see this now! not my x-men"
This is what the xmen have always done. Give mutants a safe place, the mansion and go out and change the world. Only now they can't be attacked every second to distract from the actual story of coexistence as opposed to shocking deaths of the week.