[QUOTE=Subliminal;5527946]Referencing the Theseus's Ship paradox, I wonder if individual identity matters anymore for cloned Krakoans. If death is temporary, what value do Hickman's X-Men assign to a life? The run is interesting, but it lacks soul.[/QUOTE]
This seems to be one of the things Way of X will deal with it
[QUOTE=Rang10;5527908]No, i'm not doing that. I'm reading what is presented intead of taking leaps to interpret the wrong way[/QUOTE]
It’s not a leap that two naked characters in a hot tub alone and making out are going to do the deed. Indeed, that’s naturally what’s going to happen if it isn’t already while they’re embracing.
Same with denying that three people living together in connected bedrooms and no doors are living together.
Instead of you continuing to deny what Hickman talks about and what is depicted on the page, why don’t you just say, “I, [B]Rang10[/B], do not like the throuple that Hickman has depicted. It bothers me.” Instead, you act like other readers, such as myself, are making it up. We’re not and I’m not. It’s in the comics.
Place blame where it belongs — Hickman.
Really, though, i think you need to not be so uptight and just go with Hickman’s flow. See where it goes. Don’t let a fiction bother you so much. It’s just a comic.
Half of me thinks it’s hysterical that Marvel has allowed Hickman to make X-Men more like Cherry Poptart.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5527674]While I don’t disagree the Scott+Jean+Wolverine throuple is a simple though inelegant solution from Hickman for the Scott+Jean+Wolverine love triangle, you can’t say it hasn’t been hinted at. Jean and Wolverine have had a love connection in spite of Scott for more than 4 decades. You can’t say this thing wasn’t hinted at. It even made it into the movies. [/QUOTE]
One of the biggest reasons I can't accept this situation as a solution of any kind for the triangle is that those decades of attraction between Jean and Logan were motivated in part by Claremont's hate for Scott. If Jean and Logan are going to be together, then Scott should just be apart from that.
The movies are not a good point, they were Wolverine films before there was a Wolverine trilogy.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5527981]It’s not a leap that two naked characters in a hot tub alone and making out are going to do the deed. Indeed, that’s naturally what’s going to happen if it isn’t already while they’re embracing.
Same with denying that three people living together in connected bedrooms and no doors are living together.
Instead of you continuing to deny what Hickman talks about and what is depicted on the page, why don’t you just say, “I, [B]Rang10[/B], do not like the throuple that Hickman has depicted. It bothers me.” Instead, you act like other readers, such as myself, are making it up. We’re not and I’m not. It’s in the comics.
Place blame where it belongs — Hickman.
Really, though, i think you need to not be so uptight and just go with Hickman’s flow. See where it goes. Don’t let a fiction bother you so much. It’s just a comic.
Half of me thinks it’s hysterical that Marvel has allowed Hickman to make X-Men more like Cherry Poptart.[/QUOTE]
You want me to believe in what you saying while you don't show any proof. No proof, I wont say it is a thing. I think they had a intention on the beginning, but turns out that is just Percy using Jean to kiss Logan to make him look better. It might be something or might be nothing, doesn't look like all writers are on the same page.
I still have many questions about these characters.
Jean was using a bikini and we dont know if logan was using clothes or not. So you are not accurate here.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528092]One of the biggest reasons I can't accept this situation as a solution of any kind for the triangle is that those decades of attraction between Jean and Logan were motivated in part by Claremont's hate for Scott. If Jean and Logan are going to be together, then Scott should just be apart from that.
The movies are not a good point, they were Wolverine films before there was a Wolverine trilogy.[/QUOTE]
Claremont went out of his way to Retcon Jean as being attracted to Logan. Other writers played more into Logan having a unrequited love for Jean.
I dont get wy Claremont didn't used Angel that literally love Jean and never assaulted her over it.
Were Jean and Scott shown to be in relationship recently? I cant remember them even kissing. They live together, but they could just be amicable ex's who feal comfortable around each other and have a bunch of kids and grandkids running around so they just treat each other as family even if they are no longer together.
[QUOTE=Harasar;5528142]Were Jean and Scott shown to be in relationship recently? I cant remember them even kissing. They live together, but they could just be amicable ex's who feal comfortable around each other and have a bunch of kids and grandkids running around so they just treat each other as family even if they are no longer together.[/QUOTE]
She kissed him to give him motivation on X of swords and they were holding hands on issue pencilled by Brett Booth. Last issue of X-force they were sleeping on same bed but with they sleepy wear on., Jean talking to him and him sleeping not caring what she is saying.
I think writers are very inconsistent, many times they seemed very passionless
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528096]You want me to believe in what you saying while you don't show any proof. No proof, I wont say it is a thing. I think they had a intention on the beginning, but turns out that is just Percy using Jean to kiss Logan to make him look better. It might be something or might be nothing, doesn't look like all writers are on the same page.
I still have many questions about these characters.
Jean was using a bikini and we dont know if logan was using clothes or not. So you are not accurate here.
Claremont went out of his way to Retcon Jean as being attracted to Logan. Other writers played more into Logan having a unrequited love for Jean.
I dont get wy Claremont didn't used Angel that literally love Jean and never assaulted her over it.[/QUOTE]
The triangle has been harmful to the characters and the X-Men (through the films) and this situation isn't helping.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528156]She kissed him to give him motivation on X of swords and they were holding hands on issue pencilled by Brett Booth. Last issue of X-force they were sleeping on same bed but with they sleepy wear on., Jean talking to him and him sleeping not caring what she is saying.
I think writers are very inconsistent, many times they seemed very passionless[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's the pessimist in me but I don't think things will end well for them.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528096]You want me to believe in what you saying while you don't show any proof. No proof, I wont say it is a thing. I think they had a intention on the beginning, but turns out that is just Percy using Jean to kiss Logan to make him look better. It might be something or might be nothing, doesn't look like all writers are on the same page.
I still have many questions about these characters.
Jean was using a bikini and we dont know if logan was using clothes or not. So you are not accurate here.
Claremont went out of his way to Retcon Jean as being attracted to Logan. Other writers played more into Logan having a unrequited love for Jean.
I dont get wy Claremont didn't used Angel that literally love Jean and never assaulted her over it.[/QUOTE]
I’ve provided the links to images and a podcast. Scott+Jean+Wolverine are a throuple.
About X-Force #10, in the first page of the scene, Jean is wearing a bikini. By the time they’re canoodling in the hot tub, she’s topless. Go look at the picture. Anyone who gets into a hot tub alone with another person and engages romantically, they end up going much further than kissing. Period.
As for their relationship, no retcon. Wolverine has always liked Jean.
X-Men #98:
[URL="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg"]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #110:
[URL="http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png"]http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png[/URL]
X-Men #128:
[URL="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg"]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #242:
[URL="http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png"]http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png[/URL]
Yeah, I know, relatively one-sided until that last one there. But Logan and Jean go way back. The movies didn’t create the relationship out of nothing. Claremont didn’t just retcon it. It started 6 issues into the all-new, all-different X-Men.
I was also reminded, good things in comics come from polyamory. Exhibit A-1: Dr. Marston’s Wonder Woman!
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528250]I’ve provided the links to images and a podcast. Scott+Jean+Wolverine are a throuple.
About X-Force #10, in the first page of the scene, Jean is wearing a bikini. By the time they’re canoodling in the hot tub, she’s topless. Go look at the picture. Anyone who gets into a hot tub alone with another person and engages romantically, they end up going much further than kissing. Period.
As for their relationship, no retcon. Wolverine has always like Jean.
X-Men #98:
[URL="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg"]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #110:
[URL="http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png"]http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png[/URL]
X-Men #128:
[URL="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg"]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #242:
[URL="http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png"]http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png[/URL]
Yeah, I know, relatively one-sided until that last one there. But Logan and Jean go way back. The movies didn’t create the relationship out of nothing. Claremont didn’t just retcon it. It started 6 issues into the all-new, all-different X-Men.
I was also reminded, good things in comics come from polyamory. Exhibit A-1: Dr. Marston’s Wonder Woman![/QUOTE]
I thought they were in a open relationship, because Scott is still seeing Emma.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528239]Maybe it's the pessimist in me but I don't think things will end well for them.[/QUOTE]
After reading the last issue of X-force I think it will be nothing or things gonna go south on the end. This feel so disjointed that we might dodge a bullet.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528250]I’ve provided the links to images and a podcast. Scott+Jean+Wolverine are a throuple.
About X-Force #10, in the first page of the scene, Jean is wearing a bikini. By the time they’re canoodling in the hot tub, she’s topless. Go look at the picture. Anyone who gets into a hot tub alone with another person and engages romantically, they end up going much further than kissing. Period.
As for their relationship, no retcon. Wolverine has always liked Jean.
X-Men #98:
[URL="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg"]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #110:
[URL="http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png"]http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png[/URL]
X-Men #128:
[URL="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg"]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #242:
[URL="http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png"]http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png[/URL]
Yeah, I know, relatively one-sided until that last one there. But Logan and Jean go way back. The movies didn’t create the relationship out of nothing. Claremont didn’t just retcon it. It started 6 issues into the all-new, all-different X-Men.
I was also reminded, good things in comics come from polyamory. Exhibit A-1: Dr. Marston’s Wonder Woman![/QUOTE]
being topless isn't the same as having sex with someone, saw many topless women on beach that weren't having sex.
Yes, Claremont retconned it. Jean wasn't interested on Logan when he start to hint hard on her and that should be kept that way, I felt it took away Jean's agency and protagonism.
Also it is nothing deep or omplex. Logan true love is Mariko, too bad she is asian so writers ignore her.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5528237]The triangle has been harmful to the characters and the X-Men (through the films) and this situation isn't helping.[/QUOTE]
Agree, I felt like it made the caracters look bad when some writers followed on that. not many, but the wo that did it relaly screwed up badly
I felt like Morrison punished Jean because of the movies. They couldn't do it with Logan because he is a cash cow so Jean ended up paying for that.
[QUOTE=Rang10;5528264]being topless isn't the same as having sex with someone, saw many topless women on beach that weren't having sex.
Yes, Claremont retconned it. Jean wasn't interested on Logan when he start to hint hard on her and that should be kept that way, I felt it took away Jean's agency and protagonism.[/QUOTE]
It's a shame, but the problem is that even if the situation is diffused, I'm worried Jean is going to be thrown under the bus. I think some fans put too much blame on Scott, but there's definitely a possibility that Jean gets the short end of the stick here.
[QUOTE=Darkgreed;5528254]I thought they were in a open relationship, because Scott is still seeing Emma.[/QUOTE]
Are they together? It's nowhere near as explicit as Jean and Logan.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5528250]I’ve provided the links to images and a podcast. Scott+Jean+Wolverine are a throuple.
About X-Force #10, in the first page of the scene, Jean is wearing a bikini. By the time they’re canoodling in the hot tub, she’s topless. Go look at the picture. Anyone who gets into a hot tub alone with another person and engages romantically, they end up going much further than kissing. Period.
As for their relationship, no retcon. Wolverine has always liked Jean.
X-Men #98:
[URL="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg"]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fAQESS8RUPc/Um-pm93O_jI/AAAAAAAAStc/q2xbXbd9GHI/s1600/Image00011.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #110:
[URL="http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png"]http://www.tcj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/110ux.png[/URL]
X-Men #128:
[URL="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg"]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-No_Ka367W-w/UEi-NoQtWvI/AAAAAAAAKwk/Z2rh_UqSAxI/s1600/033.jpg[/URL]
X-Men #242:
[URL="http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png"]http://xmenpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/xmen242Panel01.png[/URL]
Yeah, I know, relatively one-sided until that last one there. But Logan and Jean go way back. The movies didn’t create the relationship out of nothing. Claremont didn’t just retcon it. It started 6 issues into the all-new, all-different X-Men.
I was also reminded, good things in comics come from polyamory. Exhibit A-1: Dr. Marston’s Wonder Woman![/QUOTE]
The retcon was reciprocity from Jean,