What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5541152]On an island of so many mutants, some villainous, some heroic, villains turned hero, some children, some adults...so many personalities of ALL types...of course there will be some with such extreme views as "mutant supremacy". And certainly no big surprise that people like Cortez, Magneto, Exodus and o--[A]--o would be the ones to express that sentiment but...

Why is the whole mutant populace being tarred and feathered with the same MS brush?

Especially when it's perfectly clear that there are other prominent mutants who clearly don't subscribe to that ideology.[/QUOTE]

I guess it's the same like the entire human populace being tarred and feathered with the same "evil label" brush. The Friends of Humanity, The Right, The Purifiers, Orchis, various Governments, ect.. They do something harmful to mutants and suddenly it's all of humanity who are evil and bigots and racists, including the poor who probably live in some slum in a third world country and are only concerned with surviving day to day and know next to nothing about mutants. They get lumped in with Orchis, The Purifiers and the rest. It goes both ways, if you want to say the all humans are culpable for what a handful of them do then the same will be said about mutants; they are culpable for what some among them preach and believe. Tit for tat.

[QUOTE=ospfwildcard;5541445]its an over bloated meander mess that reeks of editorial control. no way this is hickman's vision. im giving duggan 3 issues to show me its worth sticking around for if not i wont even pirate this nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Hickman is having total freedom. I think this i swhat you get when you pay him as a showrunner, he just write very little and still get a good pay.
I reember when he said that he would rotate to wrie others books on the line for 6 issues lik he did on new Mutants and he ended never doing that

[QUOTE=Zelena;5541015]They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.

Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?[/QUOTE]

Cable is considered the better fighter... no matter how wrong that actually is, but that’s what SS was referring to.

[QUOTE=Zelena;5541170]Do they strongly object? I don’t have this impression… It seems to me they became rather lenient with people expressing such views.[/QUOTE]

Wolverine has said it multiple times. His opinion is everyone has opportunities to be good or bad and being human or mutant doesn’t automatically make you good or bad, it’s how you act. He was ready to fight Apocalypse when he set foot on Krakoa but Xavier made Poccy his homie.

[QUOTE=Silver Phoenix;5541464]This is what I will say about the "Krakoa Era" of the X-Men: it is an intriguing and compelling take on the X-universe. I do appreciate the creativity and world-building that has taken place.

I personally believe that the X-Men stand for more than just protecting and caring for mutants. I fell in love with them because they fought for everyone. I don't think that altruistic mission statement can ever be surpassed.

I think Krakoa is a great creation and should continue to be a sovereign nation and I hope future writers will continue to build/add to it... I just don't think the X-Men should be based there or leading it. I think their calling is beyond Krakoa.

I hope that when all is said and done with this era, the X-Men will occupy a greater space in the Marvel Universe where they are synonymous within the public's eye as the Avengers, the FF, etc... I hope they even have team members that aren't mutants because they've truly become a team that reflects higher ideals.

I appreciate Hickman is crafting and telling a story that hasn't been told on this scale. I can't wait to collect it in it's entirety.[/QUOTE]

More likely than not if X-Men operate outside Krakoa and embrace a neutral stance between humanity and mutants.It will put them at odds with their own kind and a Krakoan schism will most likely lead to its collapse.If not, then we'll go back to the X-Men living among humanity and Krakoa(like the morlocks)isolating themselves and having brotherhood type animus.In a way nothing is new under the sun that is why Moira life 11 is the failsafe.;)

[QUOTE=Rev9;5542193]More likely than not if X-Men operate outside Krakoa and embrace a neutral stance between humanity and mutants.It will put them at odds with their own kind and a Krakoan schism will most likely lead to its collapse.If not, then we'll go back to the X-Men living among humanity and Krakoa(like the morlocks)isolating themselves and having brotherhood type animus.In a way nothing is new under the sun that is why Moira life 11 is the failsafe.;)[/QUOTE]

I think the krakoa schism is going to happen soon. If not during the trial of magnet then soon after.

[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5542064]Cable is considered the better fighter... no matter how wrong that actually is, but that’s what SS was referring to.[/QUOTE]

I think they’re pretty even on the fighting skills front. It’s just that Cable’s bag of tricks is deeper (i.e., gadgets and weapons) and he also has his powers, which in this case he certainly used to his benefit. They’re the only two X-characters who had Level 7 fighting ability back in the old Fleer Marvel cards days, with the old power rankings. Man, I loved those things. :cool:

[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5537173]Magneto at least has 30+ years of going back and forth, Apocalypse was a genocidal mad man with a pop-culture approach to eugenics up until right before HoXPoX, and is now considered the X-Men’s eccentric uncle whose genocidal actions across millennia are right and proper[/QUOTE]
That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.

Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.

In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?

[QUOTE=BroHomo;5541276]Ugh I know right judging a whole nation of people based on the actions or ideas of a few of it's citizens is like grody to the max

Not here it ain't

Errr this is Magnero on chill mode.
And whyyy is it not the same for human governments? Ya know the ones that allowed giant death robots to operate and "apprehend" Mutants or allow crazy robots like Bastian to seize power, experiment on reg people turning them into smaller but just as deadly robots to deal with the mutant problem... Or the ones that facilitated the Mother Mold, or that were complacent when Mutants were being gassed to death? Y'all reeeeally gonna say that after a that Mutsbts I power or outta power need to chill in their remarks towards these same governments??

True True it just didn't much much sense to me given the context[/QUOTE]

Are any of us defending human government's for doing that?

[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.

Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.

[B]In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/B][/QUOTE]

They certainly seem more like the latter in that context.

[QUOTE=Zelena;5541015]They are both mutants… The mutant superiority on one to another doesn’t make any sense.

Or Wolverine is less considered as a mutant because his power is less offensive than Cable’s?[/QUOTE]
What are Cable’s powers, exactly? If you could define Cable’s powers better than Marvel, which shouldn’t be a problem given Marvel has been dropping the ball on that for 30+ years, then I could tell you if Wolverine is considered less of a mutant than Cable due to powers.

Last I knew, Cable’s only power we knew of for sure was “big, giant guns.”

I think it is possible that “big, giant guns” as an offensive super power might beat out Wolverine’s super powers.

Cable is the greatest omega-level mutant for big, giant guns.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]That’s why I keep struggling with the whole Krakoa thing.

Apocalypse, Magneto, Shaw and Sinister are running the same country, or they were until recently. Apocalypse brought over his half-demon-mutant kids and grandkids over to Earth, and they view themselves as the folks who ought to be in charge of Earth, not humans.

In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/QUOTE]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

That seems to be the point of some of the writing in the current X-books, it's setting up that ambiguity quite nicely in my opinion.

The question "are we the bad guys" hasn't been asked directly by anyone yet, but some mutants (specifically Nightcrawler, Cyclops and Jean, Storm, Wolverine and a couple of others) are quite conflicted, at least it seems so to me.

I'm glad it's a slow burn, it's keeping that sinister undertone and a feeling of dread. It's getting better in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5542577]In the face of that, are Orchis really the baddies? Or are they just humanity’s protectors?[/QUOTE]

Like any group, they follow their own logic…

By being the defenders of the mutants, first and foremost, the X-men express necessarily a preference. They do it also by being the allies of Magneto, Apocalypse and co. It leaves a gap for other groups to take up the torch.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542589]They certainly seem more like the latter in that context.[/QUOTE]

Their methods are pretty villain based, like testing on mutants kids and children of the vault. HUmanity have the right to defend theirselves ut it has a limit on ethics and morality

I don´t think anyone who wants to solve things killing off the general population of the other side can be called the "good guys" no matter if they are human, mutant, kree, skrull etc. :) that´s my one pet peeve so no I don´t see Orchis as "protectors" or "good guys at all" that said as antagonist they have been quite passive but well maybe that will be addressed in the future.

but I agree so far X-writers have done a good job keeping us wondering if the X-villains will get up to something or if Orchis will reveal it´s hand so far I think they have done a good job showing reasons why some of them like Shaw, Apocalypse, Mystique, Selene, Mastermind would like to keep the status quo on krakoa but by doing so they have left behind the X-men part of the story, with the exception of Wolverine, so now that we will get a new X-men team we will get more of the main X-men pov´s of things.

So far I think the writers have done a good job showing how the mere existence of Krakoa practically allows a space for redemption or at least a cease of fire between mutankind and humanity and that on itself is a good thing and still the main tension about what they will do in the future is still there but also a possibility for change.

In Magneto´s case is interesting because this is pretty much his dream come truth so he´s 100% doing the best he can to hold it together between all mutant groups and the biggest irony would be, if the trial is a clue, if he´s the reason why it gets an schism and still I see him so convinced this is the best way to solve everything, that he´s the kind of character who would rather go down with the ship than leave it, so I am quite curious what justification will be there for him to rock the boat because it must be pretty stron and I believe it involves the well being of mutants on Krakoa.

100% agree, LucyintheSky...your diamonds are perfection.

I'm loving the tension of and in this era.

I like the tension too in this era. I wonder how tense it will get between humanity and mutantkind once the world finds out what happened to the people of Terra Verde.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542708]I don´t think anyone who wants to solve things killing off the general population of the other side can be called the "good guys" no matter if they are human, mutant, kree, skrull etc. :) that´s my one pet peeve so no I don´t see Orchis as "protectors" or "good guys at all" that said as antagonist they have been quite passive but well maybe that will be addressed in the future. [/QUOTE]

But is that what Orchis is presented as doing? Even in the future, it is shown that Orchis’ descendants like the homo novissima have preserved homo superior, mutants, not eradicated them. The mutants aren’t even being invited to the machine singularity with the Phalanx. It seems to me Orchis and its Sentinels do not actually intend to destroy mutants entirely. Genocide may not be their goal in the most strict sense.

[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5542716]100% agree, LucyintheSky...your diamonds are perfection.

I'm loving the tension of and in this era.[/QUOTE]


Me too I hope to see some of that tension in the Gala so we know the path forward planned by the writers, I hope they deliver :)

[QUOTE=Brian B;5542732][B]But is that what Orchis is presented as doing? [/B]Even in the future, it is shown that Orchis’ descendants like the homo novissima have preserved homo superior, mutants, not eradicated them. The mutants aren’t even being invited to the machine singularity with the Phalanx. It seems to me Orchis and its Sentinels do not actually intend to destroy mutants entirely. Genocide may not be their goal in the most strict sense.[/QUOTE]

[B]
"In the most strict sense"[/B] yet they have got a city whose sole purpose is building Nimrod level sentinels so they can rain over Krakoa just like they did before on Utopia. So even if it´s not in the most strict sense it´s still planned genocide and that´s not what "good guys are supposed to be" unless they changed the meaning of the word.

Mutants left the planet to Shi ar space after centuries of War between mutants and humans and after that they decided to stop even the possibility of more mutants being born from them by mixing with machines becoming part sentinel and part human.That´s also genocide at a genetic level because they decided to change their very nature hoping to end the existence of mutants, even those born from their population.

[QUOTE=Brian B;5542605]What are Cable’s powers, exactly? If you could define Cable’s powers better than Marvel, which shouldn’t be a problem given Marvel has been dropping the ball on that for 30+ years, then I could tell you if Wolverine is considered less of a mutant than Cable due to powers.

Last I knew, Cable’s only power we knew of for sure was “big, giant guns.”

I think it is possible that “big, giant guns” as an offensive super power might beat out Wolverine’s super powers.

Cable is the greatest omega-level mutant for big, giant guns.[/QUOTE]

As I think this is a joke but am not quite 100% sure, I’ll keep it short and sweet. Cable has psychic abilities, specifically telepathy and telekinesis, though those powers are impacted by the techno-organic virus he was infected with as a baby. As such, at various times his powers have ranged from virtually non-existent to “god mode” (omega level) based on what’s going on with the virus in his system (i.e., when it’s active and/or flaring up, his powers are nerfed; when it’s inactive/in remission, his power levels are amped up).

His default ever since the early 90s has been basically low level TP and TK, though, augmented by those “big, giant guns” and now a “big ass sword.” :cool:

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542708]I don´t think anyone who wants to solve things killing off the general population of the other side can be called the "good guys" no matter if they are human, mutant, kree, skrull etc. :) that´s my one pet peeve so no I don´t see Orchis as "protectors" or "good guys at all" that said as antagonist they have been quite passive but well maybe that will be addressed in the future.

but I agree so far X-writers have done a good job keeping us wondering if the X-villains will get up to something or if Orchis will reveal it´s hand so far I think they have done a good job showing reasons why some of them like Shaw, Apocalypse, Mystique, Selene, Mastermind would like to keep the status quo on krakoa but by doing so they have left behind the X-men part of the story, with the exception of Wolverine, so now that we will get a new X-men team we will get more of the main X-men pov´s of things.

So far I think the writers have done a good job showing how the mere existence of Krakoa practically allows a space for redemption or at least a cease of fire between mutankind and humanity and that on itself is a good thing and still the main tension about what they will do in the future is still there but also a possibility for change.

In Magneto´s case is interesting because this is pretty much his dream come truth so he´s 100% doing the best he can to hold it together between all mutant groups and the biggest irony would be, if the trial is a clue, if he´s the reason why it gets an schism and still I see him so convinced this is the best way to solve everything, that he´s the kind of character who would rather go down with the ship than leave it, so I am quite curious what justification will be there for him to rock the boat because it must be pretty stron and I believe it involves the well being of mutants on Krakoa.[/QUOTE]

I see what you mean, but what I'm saying is to [B]Brian B[/B]'s point that it's that wiggle room that allows Orchis and others like them the leeway they need to push further and further. The average layman will see that Krakoan leadership includes Apocalypse and won't push back as much when Orchis goes too far.

I see your point but the problem is that even without Orchis from mutants pov they already went to far for many years if not with the sentinels, then with the detention camps or the slavery so Orchis for them is just one more group of the bunch and for humanity it´s just bussines as usual, it´s not a case of them agreeing with Orchis in going to far because of Apocalypse, they are in a situation which they already have gone too far so often that Krakoa became the answer for mutants, it´s the result of that, not the other way around.

I personally would find more interesting than Orchis, a group of humans who want or seek the acceptance or the trust of mutants again by looking to stablish a connection with Krakoa as a nation or individual mutants with some mutants accepting the offer, a kind of human version of the X-men if you want, I think there´s space for that story to be told too and it would be a nice middle ground for the polarization between human and mutants. That kind of group I could a see as "good guys" from humanity´s side.

[QUOTE=Jackraow21;5542749]As I think this is a joke but am not quite 100% sure, I’ll keep it short and sweet. Cable has psychic abilities, specifically telepathy and telekinesis, though those powers are impacted by the techno-organic virus he was infected with as a baby. As such, at various times his powers have ranged from virtually non-existent to “god mode” (omega level) based on what’s going on with the virus in his system (i.e., when it’s active and/or flaring up, his powers are nerfed; when it’s inactive/in remission, his power levels are amped up).

His default ever since the early 90s has been basically low level TP and TK, though, augmented by those “big, giant guns” and now a “big ass sword.” :cool:[/QUOTE]
I was joking, but as your post makes perfectly clear, they have never consistently portrayed Cable’s power. Indeed, Cable’s only consistent and primary power, since Rob Liefeld drew him and created him, is big, giant guns.

Yeah, that’s fair. The constant merry-go-round re: his powers, coming and going and being altered (usually accompanying some change in the T-O virus’ status in his system) is tiresome. I’d like to see them move away from that for a good long while and leave it consistent. This would be like Wolverine getting his adamantium ripped out every few years and having bone claws... until someone gives him his adamantium back... until he loses the metal again somehow. Ha.

But IMO the default “low level TP and TK” augmented by weapons and fighting skills is the best Cable.

Also, I’ll add that not even “big, giant guns” have been constant for him, as he moved away from them for a period in the 90s when he used his psimitar. And more recently has preferred using his big, giant sword. ;)

Exactatiously.

Orchis, which was already in the works but dormant, came on-line in response to Krakoa Mutant Island coming into being.
And rather than wait to see just how much of a "threat" the new "uppity" Nation might become they booted up their Mother Mold with full prejudice.
So far...other than the rescue actions taken against those countries who are wrongfully incarcerating mutants, the Krakoan mutants have been quite reactionary to the world's "hate and fear" response to their presence.

[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5542784]Exactatiously.

Orchis, which was already in the works but dormant, came on-line in response to Krakoa Mutant Island coming into being.
And rather than wait to see just how much of a "threat" the new "uppity" Nation might become they booted up their Mother Mold with full prejudice.
So far...other than the rescue actions taken against those countries who are wrongfully incarcerating mutants, the Krakoan mutants have been quite reactionary to the world's "hate and fear" response to their presence.[/QUOTE]

I don't care who is good or bad (and there is no argument that Orchis is not way more than questionable), but Orchis started things going because of something they know Xavier is up to that is putting things about 15 years (I think) ahead of what they anticipated. I feel there is a bit of cold war style stuff going on here to make it a better story than worrying about who gets to be uppity or whatever.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542772]I see your point but the problem is that even without Orchis from mutants pov they already went to far for many years if not with the sentinels, then with the detention camps or the slavery so Orchis for them is just one more group of the bunch and for humanity it´s just bussines as usual, it´s not a case of them agreeing with Orchis in going to far because of Apocalypse, they are in a situation which they already have gone too far so often that Krakoa became the answer for mutants, it´s the result of that, not the other way around.

I personally would find more interesting than Orchis, a group of humans who want or seek the acceptance or the trust of mutants again by looking to stablish a connection with Krakoa as a nation or individual mutants with some mutants accepting the offer, a kind of human version of the X-men if you want, I think there´s space for that story to be told too and it would be a nice middle ground for the polarization between human and mutants. That kind of group I could a see as "good guys" from humanity´s side.[/QUOTE]

And that's true from the perspective mutants, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the average person who woke up one day and there was suddenly an entire new world power chaired by some of the worst criminals in human history. There's definitely some great potential narrative payoff, maybe I'll be singing praises for this run by the end.

I would [I]love[/I] for your latter idea to make it, I've been wanting something like that for a long time. The protagonists, as I've conceptualized it, would include a pair of siblings, one human and one mutant. I know we've had that before but the push and pull of the human vs mutant conflict doesn't seem to play a big role.

[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5542784]Exactatiously.

Orchis, which was already in the works but dormant, came on-line in response to Krakoa Mutant Island coming into being.
And rather than wait to see just how much of a "threat" the new "uppity" Nation might become they booted up their Mother Mold with full prejudice.
So far...other than the rescue actions taken against those countries who are wrongfully incarcerating mutants, the Krakoan mutants have been quite reactionary to the world's "hate and fear" response to their presence.[/QUOTE]

Krakoa is the first time mutantkind has largely gathered in this way, I think Orchis as a [I]preventive or protective measure[/I] could arguably be justified. The use of a Mother Mold is indefensible, that's true.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542829]And that's true from the perspective mutants, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the average person who woke up one day and there was suddenly an entire new world power chaired by some of the worst criminals in human history. There's definitely some great potential narrative payoff, maybe I'll be singing praises for this run by the end.[/QUOTE]

I don´t think the average person knows who Apocalypse, Selene, Sinister, et all even are as all of them had their hidden identities and it´s also why Xavier is the main face for the country and Magneto to a lesser extend but at least he has been seen helping out the X-men or the Avengers or help take down Hydra from time to time so imo Orchis itself is a reaction from the world elites who are not ok with mutants being organized as a nation and taking over in a very peaceful way that doesn´t allow them to justify an open attack.

[QUOTE]I would [I]love[/I] for your latter idea to make it, I've been wanting something like that for a long time. The protagonists, as I've conceptualized it, would include a pair of siblings, one human and one mutant. I know we've had that before but the push and pull of the human vs mutant conflict doesn't seem to play a big role.[/QUOTE]

Yes it would be a nice way to include a third faction that makes sense because at the end of the day most mutants are born from human families who loved them or love them. In fact it was never explained why they would allow their child to be taken to camps. Old Genosha had the story of a couple, one a mutant and one a human who was the Son of the one in charge to the mutates concentration camps so he used his father influence to save his girlfriend and later became a rebel in favor of mutants so yes, there´s room for more stories like that one.



[QUOTE]Krakoa is the first time mutantkind has largely gathered in this way, I think Orchis as a [I]preventive or protective measure[/I] could arguably be justified. The use of a Mother Mold is indefensible, that's true.[/QUOTE]

I see Orchis as the elite reaction to losing influence and power not really a reaction seeking to protect other people, that´s why it´s members are all former agents from the world intelligence agencies. I see them more like an evolution of the anti-mutant groups rather than a defense of humanity.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]...I see Orchis as the elite reaction to losing influence and power not really a reaction seeking to protect other people, that´s why it´s members are all former agents from the world intelligence agencies. I see them more like an evolution of the anti-mutant groups rather than a defense of humanity.[/QUOTE]

That’s a good point. I really want the Orchis and Nimrod plots to get going.

Yes me too, hopefully that´s what the new X-men title or Hickman´s secret title will be about, they certainly have been taking their time :)

Because they have a Mother Mold and all that [I]that [/I]stands for...they are most certainly an evolution of the anti-mutants groups under the guise of humanity's "defenders". Their intent is absolutely clear just going by their initial reaction and response.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]I don´t think the average person knows who Apocalypse, Selene, Sinister, et all even are as all of them had their hidden identities and it´s also why Xavier is the main face for the country and Magneto to a lesser extend but at least he has been seen helping out the X-men or the Avengers or help take down Hydra from time to time so imo Orchis itself is a reaction from the world elites who are not ok with mutants being organized as a nation and taking over in a very peaceful way that doesn´t allow them to justify an open attack.[/QUOTE]

Certainly most people wouldn't know but with modern technology and the numerous conflicts that there have been (thanks Marvel) there should be plenty of people and even conspiracy websites spreading this information.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]Yes it would be a nice way to include a third faction that makes sense because at the end of the day most mutants are born from human families who loved them or love them. In fact it was never explained why they would allow their child to be taken to camps. Old Genosha had the story of a couple, one a mutant and one a human who was the Son of the one in charge to the mutates concentration camps so he used his father influence to save his girlfriend and later became a rebel in favor of mutants so yes, there´s room for more stories like that one.[/QUOTE]

And I think that point of view is explored so little, there's so much ground to explore.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542844]I see Orchis as the elite reaction to losing influence and power not really a reaction seeking to protect other people, that´s why it´s members are all former agents from the world intelligence agencies. I see them more like an evolution of the anti-mutant groups rather than a defense of humanity.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to see possible deserters of Orchis, individuals who believe that there should be a response but disagree with the extreme direction that Orchis eventually went.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5542884]Certainly most people wouldn't know but with modern technology and the numerous conflicts that there have been (thanks Marvel) there should be plenty of people and even conspiracy websites spreading this information.[/QUOTE]

Yes definitely that´s why I think the rule of kill no man is not only important to keep mutants with bad intentions in check it also gives humanity an olive branch from which they have room to talk out their issues instead of going overboard with it. Imo that´s probably why Magneto made such a show when Cortez tried to put a stop to it, it´s not only a matter of internal politics for Krakoa, it´s also what keeps a fragile balance between the rest of humanity and mutants hence why Magneto said not even he would be given a excuse if he broke it, not only because of the law itself but because he has a group of loyal mutants that would feel justified in following in his footsteps.

[QUOTE]And I think that point of view is explored so little, there's so much ground to explore.[/QUOTE]

Definitely that would be another new ground to explore, outside of the traditional super hero groups like the FF4 or the Avengers.


[QUOTE]I'd like to see possible deserters of Orchis, individuals who believe that there should be a response but disagree with the extreme direction that Orchis eventually went.[/QUOTE]

That would be interesting, I would like to see something like that as well. In the Magneto´s solo title by Bunn there were some agents from Shield who were ok in stopping him when he went to far but also sometimes helped him get information about captured mutants because they agreed it was unfair, that kind of nuance would be nice to see.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542909]Yes definitely that´s why I think the rule of kill no man is not only important to keep mutants with bad intentions in check it also gives humanity an olive branch from which they have room to talk out their issues instead of going overboard with it. Imo that´s probably why Magneto made such a show when Cortez tried to put a stop to it, it´s not only a matter of internal politics for Krakoa, it´s also what keeps a fragile balance between the rest of humanity and mutants hence why Magneto said not even he would be given a excuse if he broke it, not only because of the law itself but because he has a group of loyal mutants that would feel justified in following in his footsteps.[/QUOTE]

This is an excellent point.
One which parallels their offering of free "drugs" to help humanity...in terms of optics, if you are seen to be genuinely helping humanity and have their best interest at heart, then it makes it difficult for your detractors to say otherwise.

Exactly and that´s why it´s better for Orchis to remain a secret group, they don´t want to be seen attacking a country outnowhere for not reason and in the journey or helping out humanity in a genuine way you end with better human and mutant relationships than it was before that´s why I think Krakoa is a interesting compromise for all involved, mutants(X-men or otherwise) and humans.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542909]Yes definitely that´s why I think the rule of kill no man is not only important to keep mutants with bad intentions in check it also gives humanity an olive branch from which they have room to talk out their issues instead of going overboard with it. Imo that´s probably why Magneto made such a show when Cortez tried to put a stop to it, it´s not only a matter of internal politics for Krakoa, it´s also what keeps a fragile balance between the rest of humanity and mutants hence why Magneto said not even he would be given a excuse if he broke it, not only because of the law itself but because he has a group of loyal mutants that would feel justified in following in his footsteps.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point, I've got nothing else on this front.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542909]Definitely that would be another new ground to explore, outside of the traditional super hero groups like the FF4 or the Avengers.[/QUOTE]

If it needed marquee value you could always add an Avenger or something. And it could really work through multiple genres.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542909]That would be interesting, I would like to see something like that as well. In the Magneto´s solo title by Bunn there were some agents from Shield who were ok in stopping him when he went to far but also sometimes helped him get information about captured mutants because they agreed it was unfair, that kind of nuance would be nice to see.[/QUOTE]

Yes, absolutely, I could definitely get behind more of that.

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5542938]Exactly and that´s why it´s better for Orchis to remain a secret group, they don´t want to be seen attacking a country outnowhere for not reason and in the journey or helping out humanity in a genuine way you end with better human and mutant relationships than it was before that´s why I think Krakoa is a interesting compromise for all involved, mutants(X-men or otherwise) and humans.[/QUOTE]

Orchis is just waiting for a chink in Krakoa's armor so that they can justify their extreme response and I think the leadership has created the environment for that to happen.

I think I'm enjoying discussing these topics with y'all more than I did reading the actual book.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5543034]Orchis is just waiting for a chink in Krakoa's armor so that they can justify their extreme response and I think the leadership has created the environment for that to happen.

[B]I think I'm enjoying discussing these topics with y'all more than I did reading the actual book.[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't think that's an uncommon feeling for the flagship title. A lot of the ideas presented are ripe for discussion and analysis even if the execution isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5543030]Excellent point, I've got nothing else on this front.[/QUOTE]

Thank you :)

[QUOTE]If it needed marquee value you could always add an Avenger or something. And it could really work through multiple genres.[/QUOTE]

Yes I would love to see a new version of the Uncanny Avengers, this is a good time for a team like that.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5543034]Orchis is just waiting for a chink in Krakoa's armor so that they can justify their extreme response and I think the leadership has created the environment for that to happen.[/QUOTE]

Yes so far they had to use indirect attacks so if something happens the balance is quite fragile, I think the leadership has keep a thinly veiled balance but after the Gala and Magneto´s trial who knows what will happen, I expect conflict but I hope they keep part of that tension going on for more time.

[QUOTE]I think I'm enjoying discussing these topics with y'all more than I did reading the actual book.[/QUOTE]

Discussion is a big part of the fun, and you raise good points as well. There´s so much left to know about how Krakoa came to be that there´s much left to debate.

Can’t end soon enough. Let’s hope Nightcrawler destroys Krakoa.