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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491127]Maybe. I think it's possible you're reading into this era the best intentions, but by that same token I'm just as likely reading in the worst because of my general disappointment with the main book. I'd like to be wrong, I want an X-Book that I can really get behind.[/QUOTE]
It just honestly doesn't make sense to me to go down that road. IF this all blows up in the xmen face imo it looks like hickman and co are saying even under the best intentions even pulling away to an ideal safe place, letting people breathe, and then coming to them and letting them really get to know you hate and fear always wins. So i can definitely agree i'm looking at it ideally but it's also the only way that makes sense to me. I mean i get it and i know all that could happen but it doesn't make a lot of sense when depending on the writer someone could come in with the exact setup hickman has right now and do a traditional x-book with them staying at one of the habitats or something as a base. In the previews for the team it even says the team will be based in NYC.
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I don't think the choices are "hate and fear wins" and "The X-Men are symbols for nationalism now"
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[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491131]I'm just saying they didn't need to take 2 years to have the X-Men act on the dream, if that's what this new book is doing. I also don't think the X-Men needed to become huge assholes to all their allies and friends to make Krakoa look good. Hopefully the Hellfire Gala is a correction. But if it's not, I'm not sure how much longer I can put up with everyone being so OOC till the end of Hickmans run, and potentially indefinitely if this is a permanent change in how Mutants think of their human friends.[/QUOTE]
They already looked like assholes imo as someone who read their book and saw them saving everyone in their backyard but mutants. Thats on nobody but the offices who let those stories be written and printed. It's a shame no one can produce panels in over a decade of the avengers (aside from x-side appearances) actually showing up to help. People aren't just like hating on the avengers i try to think in universe when i think about a story or stories.
A more recent example. Look what happened when a part of the main mu was in the x-books. Franklin. We saw where that went.
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[QUOTE=cranger;5491120]This is all from Decimation. I don't know why anyone wants to insist on dragging that crap on. Before the MCU and the need to make the Avengers the face of the MU instead of the X-Men none of this was true. Editorial shoved the mutants in a corner (and then routinely complained about how that was as if they were not to blame) essentially putting them off limits from every other book and then started having characters start blaming everyone for stuff to hype up Avengers vs X-Men. We had 40 years of X-Men getting along just fine with the rest of the line.[/QUOTE]
The dicision to make X-men antagonize allies was a really bad one. Makes zero sense be against your friends
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The same "allies" who have been watching the mutants face genocide after genocide for decades lol I swear you guys are so funny.
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[QUOTE=Outburstz;5491171]The same "allies" who have been watching the mutants face genocide after genocide for decades lol I swear you guys are so funny.[/QUOTE]
Some of the people who perpetuated those atrocities are now their best buds on that island but okay
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[QUOTE=Outburstz;5491171]The same "allies" who have been watching the mutants face genocide after genocide for decades lol I swear you guys are so funny.[/QUOTE]
This is so fake, they arent watching anything. This way makes it as avengers were just watching while mutants were murdered and that isn't true.
People are mad that all marvel universe doesn't revolve around mutants all the time.
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[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491175]Some of the people who perpetuated those atrocities are now their best buds on that island but okay[/QUOTE]
What i really don't get is it was the whole line. You mean fighting red skull for a 1000th time was more interesting than Cap going into the heart of a mutant facilitiy to free children in his own book.
It's more compelling to see Daredevil chase electra then one story of Daredevil helping a mutant in Hell Kitchen on the run from liberators during the registration act.
Or she hulk, or Thor fighting a god sentinel being designed to kill mutants. I find it really hard to believe no one wanted to tell those stories but now the avengers look like jerks.
Why waste the mutants on what the writers weren't even using them for. They could have put heart into all those stories if Cap and co cared or rather a single person that wrote them during those period.
Imagine the imagery of cap pulling several mutants out of the terrigen gas. i mean come on.
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Captain america themes are political and they have nothing to do with Mutants. His book will never be about mutants, there is x-men books for that.
Also who cares about terrigen mists? that was a horrible status quo;
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5491199]Captain america themes are political and they have nothing to do with Mutants. His book will never be about mutants, there is x-men books for that.
Also who cares about terrigen mists? that was a horrible status quo;[/QUOTE]
Well there you go enjoy your book, i am enjoying mine.
The line created a registration act and rather than deal with it they let the heros go on and do other stories and then only handled it in events. Not the x-line fault every directive the marvel universe put down they actually dealt with.
And if captain america is a political book wouldn't a registration act be political. It wouldn't be heroic to see cap do what he supposedly does and go bust up a denention center or a mutant selling ring where registered mutants were being taken and abused. He wouldn't have felt somewhat responsible for it? That wouldn't have been about him, and his feelings and what he did just because the goal was to save mutants due to an act his friends put in place with the government?
IronMan? Carol?
No story anywhere in that for them that would have been about them?
That explains the state of the main line to me.
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Captain America had nothing to do with registration act and he was being hunted too on the time for opposing it.
I understand people wanting to see more Avengers on mutants problems, but on a shared universe it isn't all interesting or they will become a x-men book. Writers take over these books and arent interested to tell mutant stories on them.
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But thats not true, i wouldn't need to see a single mutant or x-man to know cap in a universe, on an earth, in a country, where he lives he went and busted up a mutant detention center. Why would that be any different than him going into another country and liberating people?
I wouldn't need to see a single mutant to know Iron Man was sending such and such coordinates so they could avoid the terrigen gas.
Why did the writers at the time ignore what was happening in universe that could have benefitted their own books.
Black panther at the time, the writers thought to mention in his book he was helping and it did not become a mutant book.
Those are the the things that don't make sense to me. How about a safety zone they created for mutants during terrigen. How much panel space would it really take up to have them do the hero stuff they do for unknown mutants in the world. I'm not even talking about xmen. The whole line could have been shaping mutants of their own, sidekicks, people that right now i would be looking at those books and being like. Well they helped them sooo. But people want the x-writers to make up facts that don't exist and make assumptions about stories that should have been written.
Don't create a company wide event if your going to let writers come in and write whatever they want while it's happening and not address it. Should be simple. Cap imo missed out on what could have been a powerful story all about him seeing mutants dying because of the cloud and it reminding him of the past etc. Absolutely powerful but thatss not what we got because i guess just having a mutant mentioned makes it a mutant book.
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The best Avenger moment about mutants was whn US government wanted them to hunt mutants and they refuse to hunt mutants and severed ties to US goverment
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5491241]The best Avenger moment about mutants was whn US government wanted them to hunt mutants and they refuse to hunt mutants and severed ties to US goverment[/QUOTE]
And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf.
that's all i guess i'm really saying, i don't get why the writers didn't use mutants in a way that benefited them in those dark times for mutants. It doesn't make sense to me, even if they never showed them it would have made them look sympathetic. At the time there could have been power house mutants on the take, street level mutants, i never got why the main line didn't utilize them and benefit from them in situation where they literally just had to be heroic. You didn't have to bring in a single xmen to do that. I thought i was going to read a Cap during the terrigen times and see like how he viewed it coming from the era he did and even the registration act he was set up perfectly against it, so i don't get why those stories didn't happen in a shared universe. And sometimes it sucks reading the whole line.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491233]But thats not true, i wouldn't need to see a single mutant or x-man to know cap in a universe, on an earth, in a country, where he lives he went and busted up a mutant detention center. Why would that be any different than him going into another country and liberating people?
I wouldn't need to see a single mutant to know Iron Man was sending such and such coordinates so they could avoid the terrigen gas.
Why did the writers at the time ignore what was happening in universe that could have benefitted their own books.
Black panther at the time, the writers thought to mention in his book he was helping and it did not become a mutant book.
Those are the the things that don't make sense to me. How about a safety zone they created for mutants during terrigen. How much panel space would it really take up to have them do the hero stuff they do for unknown mutants in the world. I'm not even talking about xmen. The whole line could have been shaping mutants of their own, sidekicks, people that right now i would be looking at those books and being like. Well they helped them sooo. But people want the x-writers to make up facts that don't exist and make assumptions about stories that should have been written.
Don't create a company wide event if your going to let writers come in and write whatever they want while it's happening and not address it. Should be simple. Cap imo missed out on what could have been a powerful story all about him seeing mutants dying because of the cloud and it reminding him of the past etc. Absolutely powerful but thatss not what we got because i guess just having a mutant mentioned makes it a mutant book.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they don't need to take over and co-opt the storyline, but it would have been nice to see the heroes concerned with this.
Marvel shot themselves in the face when they called out this problem in-universe, they couldn't handwave it anymore.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491246]And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf.
that's all i guess i'm really saying, i don't get why the writers didn't use mutants in a way that benefited them in those dark times for mutants. It doesn't make sense to me, even if they never showed them it would have made them look sympathetic. At the time there could have been power house mutants on the take, street level mutants, i never got why the main line didn't utilize them and benefit from them in situation where they literally just had to be heroic. You didn't have to bring in a single xmen to do that. I thought i was going to read a Cap during the terrigen times and see like how he viewed it coming from the era he did and even the registration act he was set up perfectly against it, so i don't get why those stories didn't happen in a shared universe. And sometimes it sucks reading the whole line.[/QUOTE]
That is a normal thing. Not all books needs to reference Y event of X book. That is a normal rule of shared universe on comics and I have no problem with it
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5491279]That is a normal thing. Not all books needs to reference Y event of X book. That is a normal rule of shared universe on comics and I have no problem with it[/QUOTE]
And i agree with you 1000% but they didn't think to address these stories in the world Cap, daredvil, Luke cage, Jessica Jones, Carol, were actually living on. These were not mutant stories. Those stories were created by the main line, so they created them and then didn't explore them. That is what i don't get. Go look at the press releases. They promoted a story they had no intention of exploring in their books.
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[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5487847]Because of the things the characters have said and the way they have acted throughout this entire storyline? They definitely don't consider themselves human in any way anymore.[/QUOTE]sooo nothing lol
Depending on the writer it feels like the X-Men never liked humans in the first place, what with how quickly they all dropped their long held beliefs of humans and mutants coexisting. Guess that's what happens when you use massive retcons to crowbar your way to a new status quo
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Brian B;5488142]
Yes, [I]Giant-Size X-Men #1[/I], and for me, the rest of Claremont’s early years up until the end of the Paul Smith run kick the crap out of Hickman’s run, or anything else published under the X banners since then.[/QUOTE]
Eh I mean all KraKoa origins have been silly lol
[QUOTE=Brian B;5488152]It really does contradict the whole thing about Xavier’s supposed MLK-like dream. If that’s never really addressed, [B]the Hickman run will be remembered as a bigger piece of garbage than Grant Morrison’s X-Men[/B]. I give it 50/50 odds to be better than the Morrison issues.[/QUOTE]
Wow well you seem hopeful?
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5488352]While they’ve picked up a fair bit of sapien in their mix, the Inhumans derive from Neanderthal. [B]They are a more legit separate species than mutants are from baseline humans[/B][/QUOTE]
How when before terrigen gas exposure they're almost exactly like reg humans?
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5490796]I dunno, AvX seems more logical than ever now that the X-Men treat the Avengers canonically worse than almost all their longstanding villains.[/QUOTE]
In what way?
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491175]Some of the people who perpetuated those atrocities are now their best buds on that island but okay[/QUOTE]
Nah the Pretender ain't on KraKoa
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491177]
People are mad that all marvel universe doesn't revolve around mutants all the time.[/QUOTE]
The fakest thing is thinking any x-Fan wants to share lol
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491246]And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go [B]read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf[/B].
[/QUOTE]
YAs!
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[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5490780]Exactly, especially since in this instance it would basically require every Marvel book operate on the whims of the X-Men books, which is never going to happen[/QUOTE]
I was more thinking about finally using Krakoa as an excuse for the rest of Marvel to escape the world outside your window and embrace how much things would change if there was superhumans, aliens, killer robots and magic were a regular thing.
Now, the nature of the superhero genre does lean towards a more cyberpunk-noir to the proto-biopunk thing Krakoa is flirting with, but it would make for a good contrast.
About the only thing that such a move would negatively cause the rest of marvel would be, if the X-office keeps nixing marvel guys fighting X-foes, would be that it cements the rest of marvel’s character roster as x-men villains by default
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Anyone bringing up garbage CompleX era stories as a basis for anything other than to say "Don't Do This Ever Again" just have not read the great runs of X-Men and other Marvel titles.
Deadly Genesis was the beginning of ripping apart everything fun and brilliant about the X-Men and putting a taint on the franchise.
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[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491342]I was more thinking about finally using Krakoa as an excuse for the rest of Marvel to escape the world outside your window and embrace how much things would change if there was superhumans, aliens, killer robots and magic were a regular thing.
Now, the nature of the superhero genre does lean towards a more cyberpunk-noir to the proto-biopunk thing Krakoa is flirting with, but it would make for a good contrast.
About the only thing that such a move would negatively cause the rest of marvel would be, if the X-office keeps nixing marvel guys fighting X-foes, would be that it cements the rest of marvel’s character roster as x-men villains by default[/QUOTE]
Ultimate Marvel was trying that right? It just became predictably excessive.
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Or maybe it's because we went back and read those runs we are like well wtf happened epsecially when people are trying to what feels like benefit off one side of the equation. My first comic was a fantastic four comic. I'm not bitter but having been on this board i can only imagine how bitter x-fans who enjoy the times of past feel knowing they were thrown under the bus even if it was to save the company. I agree it's time to get over it but they have to start producing the stories for that to happen. I've read coates captain America and in a world where currently children are being outlawed etc it doesn't make sense to me Captain America is fighting the red skull and saving people in trade camps instead of barging into the facility juggernaunt was at detaining human and mutant super powered children. Why make the directive if you can't follow through. One can't live on stories of the past.
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491345]Ultimate Marvel was trying that right? It just became predictably excessive.[/QUOTE]
I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”
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[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491356]I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”[/QUOTE]
That's dark. I think people forget mutants can give birth to humans. I honestly feel that is the best way to finally address the issue when it comes up on Krakoa. I just don't think anyone is in a rush to get there. I actually feel like it would be a cop out to say humanity simply stops existing as they were because in life someone is always left behind. And even in terms of the marvel universe even by 2099 if it were to happen humans should still be being born unless they purposely try to breed them out which would be dark and just wrong imo.
But then i guess it has been addressed in the swense shogo is human so it's evident mutants don't hate humans so that's what makes it different. With Kyle and shogo there it's not like mutants want to actively get rid of humans or even hate them so... yeah
and now really thinking about it even if in universe can people really say the avengers are friends with mutants. I'm really trying to think now and i've seen Cap visit tchalla, show up to help same with carol and tony, all in their own books but aside from the she hulk scene with logan and pretty much only scenes with logan i can't think of a scene where these heroes went and checked in on their "friends"
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[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491356]I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”[/QUOTE]
I don't know that Marvel needs to commit to such a dark interpretation, but this is kinda like what I wanted when I said I'd rather see integration of mutant kind.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491364]That's dark. I think people forget mutants can give birth to humans. I honestly feel that is the best way to finally address the issue when it comes up on Krakoa. I just don't think anyone is in a rush to get there. I actually feel like it would be a cop out to say humanity simply stops existing as they were because in life someone is always left behind. And even in terms of the marvel universe even by 2099 if it were to happen humans should still be being born unless they purposely try to breed them out which would be dark and just wrong imo.
But then i guess it has been addressed in the swense shogo is human so it's evident mutants don't hate humans so that's what makes it different. With Kyle and shogo there it's not like mutants want to actively get rid of humans or even hate them so... yeah
and now really thinking about it even if in universe can people really say the avengers are friends with mutants. I'm really trying to think now and i've seen Cap visit tchalla, show up to help same with carol and tony, all in their own books but aside from the she hulk scene with logan and pretty much only scenes with logan i can't think of a scene where these heroes went and checked in on their "friends"[/QUOTE]
Scott and the Champions I think was one?
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Yes they did. the marauders showed up and helped them and RiRi was smitten with Storm. That is definitely an example of it being done right All i'm saying is when these directives come down it would be nice for all the books to follow it, especially when it is coming from the company. It's on the writer to figure out how to make cap look good in a world where mutants are being gassed and imo it should have been easy. I can't imagine a TRUE cap fan not wanting to write that story and make him a hero. I can be literal sometimes and one of the worst things a comic can do for me is break it's on universal law. I don't care about canon so much. But if i'm suppose to believe at the same time mutants are being gassed in extraordinary inhumans are opening a casino. I'm am going to feel some kind of way. especially when these books release in the same day or within a week of each other. None of those stories i read at the time couldn't fit into the parameter the company set up and i would argue if they did they would have been better stories and you never had to see a single main line xmen. thor, cap, iron man, it' surprising to me at this point they don't have their circle of mutants.
I figure ironman would love a technopath.
If you think about it only BP has a current mutant ally and Ewing respected that in Sword so it's not that the x-books aren't respecting what the main line is doing. It's just not there. Why?
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491393]Yes they did. the marauders showed up and helped them and RiRi was smitten with Storm. That is definitely an example of it being done right All i'm saying is when these directives come down it would be nice for all the books to follow it, especially when it is coming from the company. It's on the writer to figure out how to make cap look good in a world where mutants are being gassed and imo it should have been easy. I can't imagine a TRUE cap fan not wanting to write that story and make him a hero. I can be literal sometimes and one of the worst things a comic can do for me is break it's on universal law. I don't care about canon so much. But if i'm suppose to believe at the same time mutants are being gassed in extraordinary inhumans are opening a casino. I'm am going to feel some kind of way. especially when these books release in the same day or within a week of each other. None of those stories i read at the time couldn't fit into the parameter the company set up and i would argue if they did they would have been better stories and you never had to see a single main line xmen. thor, cap, iron man, it' surprising to me at this point they don't have their circle of mutants.
I figure ironman would love a technopath.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you completely here, and I would love to see your vision come to fruition. There doesn't need to be a strict adherence to a rigid plan but some semblance of cohesion would go a long way and make it difficult for readers, like me, [I]not[/I] to pick up multiple books.
I think canonicity and internal logic go hand-in-hand, even if not always.
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491404]I agree with you completely here, and I would love to see your vision come to fruition. There doesn't need to be a strict adherence to a rigid plan but some semblance of cohesion would go a long way and make it difficult for readers, like me, [I]not[/I] to pick up multiple books.
I think canonicity and internal logic go hand-in-hand, even if not always.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my point. I pick up books on both sides and understand why imo each side doesn't sample the other and that's on how the narrative of a shared universe is told. If you just want to hire writers to do their thing than cool but if you want to call it a shared universe you have to respect the rules you lay down, you can't ignore them because then the two sides are literally living in different worlds.
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[QUOTE=Outburstz;5491171]The same "allies" who have been watching the mutants face genocide after genocide for decades lol I swear you guys are so funny.[/QUOTE]
The only mutant genocide seen in Marvel Comics not in an “alternate” timeline, but in the proper “616,” was caused by Xavier’s unborn, evil twin sister.
House of M events depowered mutants. It wasn’t even a fictional genocide. And it was caused by a mutant.
The Morlock “Mutant Massacre” was the equivalent of a pogrom, but not a genocide. It wasn’t that big.
Even the main instrument used against the mutants in the Marvel universe, the Sentinels, have at times been controlled and manufactured by mutants.
I think Hickman should have concentrated on general prejudice against mutants and on Moira’s past lives, not past writer’s mistakes like the Morrison X-Men run.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491420]Exactly my point. I pick up books on both sides and understand why imo each side doesn't sample the other and that's on how the narrative of a shared universe is told. If you just want to hire writers to do their thing than cool but if you want to call it a shared universe you have to respect the rules you lay down, you can't ignore them because then the two sides are literally living in different worlds.[/QUOTE]
I think the last Marvel book I picked up that wasn't an X-Book was Occupy Avengers? I also keep meaning to get Daredevil...
I'm definitely an X-fan primarily, but I'd like to be able to pick up some other Marvel books. Most of my pull list is DC.
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5491322]
Nah the Pretender ain't on KraKoa[/quote]
No but one of the people who was behind the Holocaust is now at the heart of their government. Too bad all his victims can't get revived by a lotus eater machine. Especially since the depowered mutants were still alive till they got pushed into the Krakoa child killing woodchipper.
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491444]I think the last Marvel book I picked up that wasn't an X-Book was Occupy Avengers? I also keep meaning to get Daredevil...
I'm definitely an X-fan primarily, but I'd like to be able to pick up some other Marvel books. Most of my pull list is DC.[/QUOTE]
She hulk solo was pretty good with the therapy sessions about fear and her death due to Thanos.
Scarlet witch and her journey down witch's road was a good read.
What really surprised me was Ewing black bolt book with him in prison. I hope the little girl who helped him and has physic powers is explored fully.
I was picking up FF but I know if only in my mind they turned away the olive branch with the Franklyn change turned me off. In my mind he is using your character so you can get the inside scoop and work it into the FF. But oh well.
I loved Jason Aron Thor run hit I'm still trying to figure out what happened to him since. The first 19 issues of his avengers was good though a lot of people don't like super strong Jen I loved where I thought he was going with even though she sounded simple she was as smart as Jenn and he was about to say something but that went left.
The man-thing avengers was actually really good and features Hickman's holdrecoulture and adds a new member to the family
I really only follow super girl and wonder woman at DC and that was due to Orlando and his voice on them. I did read Namoi though it was hit and miss. Redjack green lantern is my first foray into green lantern. liked the first issue a lot.
But yeah my x-books come first.
Oh and how could i forget immortal hulk. that book is on point i could imagine it being done as horror. The art is good too. Ewing writes one hell of a hulk.
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]The only mutant genocide seen in Marvel Comics not in an “alternate” timeline, but in the proper “616,” was caused by Xavier’s unborn, evil twin sister.
House of M events depowered mutants. It wasn’t even a fictional genocide. And it was caused by a mutant.
The Morlock “Mutant Massacre” was the equivalent of a pogrom, but not a genocide. It wasn’t that big.
Even the main instrument used against the mutants in the Marvel universe, the Sentinels, have at times been controlled and manufactured by mutants.
I think Hickman should have concentrated on general prejudice against mutants and on Moira’s past lives, not past writer’s mistakes like the Morrison X-Men run.[/QUOTE]
That is the funny thing about the genocide it was commited by Mutants or almost being very close to mutants. It's not like there was time for anyone help, it was really fast. IDK what people expect the avengers to do.
Mutant on mutant violence is really big on Marvel universe
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491444]I think the last Marvel book I picked up that wasn't an X-Book was Occupy Avengers? I also keep meaning to get Daredevil...
I'm definitely an X-fan primarily, but I'd like to be able to pick up some other Marvel books. Most of my pull list is DC.[/QUOTE]
You can pick up them on LCS, Amazon site or even the library
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5491457]She hulk solo was pretty good with the therapy sessions about fear and her death due to Thanos.
Scarlet witch and her journey down witch's road was a good read.
What really surprised me was Ewing black bolt book with him in prison. I hope the little girl who helped him and has physic powers is explored fully.
I was picking up FF but I know if only in my mind they turned away the olive branch with the Franklyn change turned me off. In my mind he is using your character so you can get the inside scoop and work it into the FF. But oh well.
I loved Jason Aron Thor run hit I'm still trying to figure out what happened to him since. The first 19 issues of his avengers was good though a lot of people don't like super strong Jen I loved where I thought he was going with even though she sounded simple she was as smart as Jenn and he was about to say something but that went left.
The man-thing avengers was actually really good and features Hickman's holdrecoulture and adds a new member to the family
I really only follow super girl and wonder woman at DC and that was due to Orlando and his voice on them. I did read Namoi though it was hit and miss. Redjack green lantern is my first foray into green lantern. liked the first issue a lot.
But yeah my x-books come first.
Oh and how could i forget immortal hulk. that book is on point i could imagine it being done as horror. The art is good too. Ewing writes one hell of a hulk.[/QUOTE]
Only the first arc of Jason Aaron's Thor was great, everything else was varying degrees of quality (IMO). Nothing about his Avengers seems enticing to me...
I'm picking up several DC books, I think I like the general tone of their books, kinda like comfort food. [I]Action, Superman, Detective, Batman, Joker, Nightwing, Robin, Green Lantern[/I].
I'm an X-fan foremost at Marvel, I have money, but they don't seem to want it.
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5491507]You can pick up them on LCS, Amazon site or even the library[/QUOTE]
Oh, I know, I just would rather have hardcovers. When the books initially release they don't interest me but then after the fact I regret not getting into them.
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[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]The only mutant genocide seen in Marvel Comics not in an “alternate” timeline, but in the proper “616,” [B]was caused by[/B] Xavier’s unborn, evil twin sister.[/QUOTE]
Annnd Sentinels
Which created by Bolivar Trask
How many Mutants have all the various Sentinels over time kill?
[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]House of M events depowered mutants. [B]It wasn’t even a fictional genocide[/B]. And it was caused by a mutant.
[/QUOTE]
[B]Well all this is just plain wrong/untrue[/B]
[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]The Morlock “Mutant Massacre” was the equivalent of a pogrom, but not a genocide. It wasn’t that big.[/QUOTE]
Genocides aren't defined by the population of the victims
[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]Even the main instrument used against the mutants in the Marvel universe, the Sentinels, have at times been controlled and manufactured by mutants. [/QUOTE]
Annnd?
[QUOTE=Brian B;5491443]I think Hickman should have concentrated on general prejudice against mutants and on Moira’s past lives, not past writer’s mistakes like the Morrison X-Men run.[/QUOTE]
Noted
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491445]
No but one of the people who was behind the Holocaust is now at the heart of their government.[/QUOTE]
Oh kinda like Argentina or Russia or England or America? Sinister wasn't in the planning of the Holocaust but def participated. When he was human. But now he's a Mutant
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491445] Too bad all his victims can't get revived by a lotus eater machine. Especially since the depowered mutants were still alive till they got pushed into the [B]Krakoa child killing woodchipper[/B].[/QUOTE]
lol jeez what books do you (seemingly) not read?
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491507]
That is the funny thing about the genocide it was commited by Mutants or almost being very close to mutants.
Hmmm Fact check....
Morlock Massacre?
Sinister--[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Not a Mutant[/COLOR][/B] (at the time)
Genosha?
Cassandra Nova--[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Not a Mutant[/COLOR][/B]
M-Day?
The Pretender--[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Not a Mutant[/COLOR][/B]
T-Cloud?
Inhumans (inadvertently)--[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Not a Mutant[/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491507] It's not like there was time for anyone help, it was really fast. IDK what people expect the avengers to do.[/QUOTE]
I mean that cloud was moving preeeetty slow
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491507]Mutant on mutant violence is really big on Marvel universe[/QUOTE]
Not as prolific as Human on Mutant violence or Human on Human
lol
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[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491274]Yeah, they don't need to take over and co-opt the storyline, but it would have been nice to see the heroes concerned with this.
Marvel shot themselves in the face when they called out this problem in-universe, they couldn't handwave it anymore.[/QUOTE]
Yes, why blame the characters when the true fault lies with the creative forces behind the books?
Speaking of the mutant massacre, it was Destiny who advised Mystique to leave the tunnels. Freedom Force could have helped their fellow mutants, but bailed.
Thor was in the tunnels, battled the Marauders, saved Angel, and gave the slain Morlocks a Viking funeral. Leaving the dead bodies would have caused a health hazard.
Also, Thor has known the O5 since they were kids.
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WM3m1p0odHA/UoQV36hF2PI/AAAAAAAASqA/9C0LbY4p0m0/s1600/Angel.jpg[/img]
[img]https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/starwolf_oakley/11581300/643711/643711_1000.jpg[/img]
The Avengers also gave up their UN status to help out in Genosha.
[img]https://uncannyxmen.net/sites/default/files/images/crossover/bloodties/bloodties02.jpg[/img]
It was the Avengers that destroyed the Mark II Sentinels.
The Avengers have legit history of being sympathetic towards the struggles of mutants.
When the X-Men were on reprint only status, the mutant saga was continued in various Marvel books.
I think the issue is creators being too territorial with characters & stories which gives the appearance of one franchise being apathetic with another.
Captain America can endorse tolerance for mutants all the live long day, and that will not stop forces from conspiring against them. Captain America & the FF have publicly endorsed Spider-Man, yet he has been historically viewed with suspicion (although it has been years since I read Spidey).
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;5491889]Oh kinda like Argentina or Russia or England or America? Sinister wasn't in the planning of the Holocaust but def participated. When he was human. But now he's a Mutant[/QUOTE]
I can't think of anything in operation paperclip where a Nazi was made into a major position in the higher US government like Attorney General or Secretary of State.
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I'm pretty sure the destruction of a culture and placing a magical lock on procreation with the goal bring "No more mutants" forfilles at least three of the definitions of a genocide.
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
As for Sinister they need him (for now) but you can see they don't like him given they sent him to his death already as well as Emmas comments to Havok about him. I see him being redundant once they borrow his equivalent from Arrakoa
