Captain America had nothing to do with registration act and he was being hunted too on the time for opposing it.
I understand people wanting to see more Avengers on mutants problems, but on a shared universe it isn't all interesting or they will become a x-men book. Writers take over these books and arent interested to tell mutant stories on them.
But thats not true, i wouldn't need to see a single mutant or x-man to know cap in a universe, on an earth, in a country, where he lives he went and busted up a mutant detention center. Why would that be any different than him going into another country and liberating people?
I wouldn't need to see a single mutant to know Iron Man was sending such and such coordinates so they could avoid the terrigen gas.
Why did the writers at the time ignore what was happening in universe that could have benefitted their own books.
Black panther at the time, the writers thought to mention in his book he was helping and it did not become a mutant book.
Those are the the things that don't make sense to me. How about a safety zone they created for mutants during terrigen. How much panel space would it really take up to have them do the hero stuff they do for unknown mutants in the world. I'm not even talking about xmen. The whole line could have been shaping mutants of their own, sidekicks, people that right now i would be looking at those books and being like. Well they helped them sooo. But people want the x-writers to make up facts that don't exist and make assumptions about stories that should have been written.
Don't create a company wide event if your going to let writers come in and write whatever they want while it's happening and not address it. Should be simple. Cap imo missed out on what could have been a powerful story all about him seeing mutants dying because of the cloud and it reminding him of the past etc. Absolutely powerful but thatss not what we got because i guess just having a mutant mentioned makes it a mutant book.
The best Avenger moment about mutants was whn US government wanted them to hunt mutants and they refuse to hunt mutants and severed ties to US goverment
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491241]The best Avenger moment about mutants was whn US government wanted them to hunt mutants and they refuse to hunt mutants and severed ties to US goverment[/QUOTE]
And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf.
that's all i guess i'm really saying, i don't get why the writers didn't use mutants in a way that benefited them in those dark times for mutants. It doesn't make sense to me, even if they never showed them it would have made them look sympathetic. At the time there could have been power house mutants on the take, street level mutants, i never got why the main line didn't utilize them and benefit from them in situation where they literally just had to be heroic. You didn't have to bring in a single xmen to do that. I thought i was going to read a Cap during the terrigen times and see like how he viewed it coming from the era he did and even the registration act he was set up perfectly against it, so i don't get why those stories didn't happen in a shared universe. And sometimes it sucks reading the whole line.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491233]But thats not true, i wouldn't need to see a single mutant or x-man to know cap in a universe, on an earth, in a country, where he lives he went and busted up a mutant detention center. Why would that be any different than him going into another country and liberating people?
I wouldn't need to see a single mutant to know Iron Man was sending such and such coordinates so they could avoid the terrigen gas.
Why did the writers at the time ignore what was happening in universe that could have benefitted their own books.
Black panther at the time, the writers thought to mention in his book he was helping and it did not become a mutant book.
Those are the the things that don't make sense to me. How about a safety zone they created for mutants during terrigen. How much panel space would it really take up to have them do the hero stuff they do for unknown mutants in the world. I'm not even talking about xmen. The whole line could have been shaping mutants of their own, sidekicks, people that right now i would be looking at those books and being like. Well they helped them sooo. But people want the x-writers to make up facts that don't exist and make assumptions about stories that should have been written.
Don't create a company wide event if your going to let writers come in and write whatever they want while it's happening and not address it. Should be simple. Cap imo missed out on what could have been a powerful story all about him seeing mutants dying because of the cloud and it reminding him of the past etc. Absolutely powerful but thatss not what we got because i guess just having a mutant mentioned makes it a mutant book.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they don't need to take over and co-opt the storyline, but it would have been nice to see the heroes concerned with this.
Marvel shot themselves in the face when they called out this problem in-universe, they couldn't handwave it anymore.
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491246]And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf.
that's all i guess i'm really saying, i don't get why the writers didn't use mutants in a way that benefited them in those dark times for mutants. It doesn't make sense to me, even if they never showed them it would have made them look sympathetic. At the time there could have been power house mutants on the take, street level mutants, i never got why the main line didn't utilize them and benefit from them in situation where they literally just had to be heroic. You didn't have to bring in a single xmen to do that. I thought i was going to read a Cap during the terrigen times and see like how he viewed it coming from the era he did and even the registration act he was set up perfectly against it, so i don't get why those stories didn't happen in a shared universe. And sometimes it sucks reading the whole line.[/QUOTE]
That is a normal thing. Not all books needs to reference Y event of X book. That is a normal rule of shared universe on comics and I have no problem with it
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491279]That is a normal thing. Not all books needs to reference Y event of X book. That is a normal rule of shared universe on comics and I have no problem with it[/QUOTE]
And i agree with you 1000% but they didn't think to address these stories in the world Cap, daredvil, Luke cage, Jessica Jones, Carol, were actually living on. These were not mutant stories. Those stories were created by the main line, so they created them and then didn't explore them. That is what i don't get. Go look at the press releases. They promoted a story they had no intention of exploring in their books.
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5487847]Because of the things the characters have said and the way they have acted throughout this entire storyline? They definitely don't consider themselves human in any way anymore.[/QUOTE]sooo nothing lol
Depending on the writer it feels like the X-Men never liked humans in the first place, what with how quickly they all dropped their long held beliefs of humans and mutants coexisting. Guess that's what happens when you use massive retcons to crowbar your way to a new status quo
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Brian B;5488142]
Yes, [I]Giant-Size X-Men #1[/I], and for me, the rest of Claremont’s early years up until the end of the Paul Smith run kick the crap out of Hickman’s run, or anything else published under the X banners since then.[/QUOTE]
Eh I mean all KraKoa origins have been silly lol
[QUOTE=Brian B;5488152]It really does contradict the whole thing about Xavier’s supposed MLK-like dream. If that’s never really addressed, [B]the Hickman run will be remembered as a bigger piece of garbage than Grant Morrison’s X-Men[/B]. I give it 50/50 odds to be better than the Morrison issues.[/QUOTE]
Wow well you seem hopeful?
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5488352]While they’ve picked up a fair bit of sapien in their mix, the Inhumans derive from Neanderthal. [B]They are a more legit separate species than mutants are from baseline humans[/B][/QUOTE]
How when before terrigen gas exposure they're almost exactly like reg humans?
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5490796]I dunno, AvX seems more logical than ever now that the X-Men treat the Avengers canonically worse than almost all their longstanding villains.[/QUOTE]
In what way?
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5491175]Some of the people who perpetuated those atrocities are now their best buds on that island but okay[/QUOTE]
Nah the Pretender ain't on KraKoa
[QUOTE=Rang10;5491177]
People are mad that all marvel universe doesn't revolve around mutants all the time.[/QUOTE]
The fakest thing is thinking any x-Fan wants to share lol
[QUOTE=jwatson;5491246]And thats what i'm saying. I don't think most x-fans have a problem with mutants in the books but lets be honest if i just read Extraodinary Xmen # 1 then i go read Uncanny Inhumans #1 and then i go [B]read cap and stuff i'm like well wtf[/B].
[/QUOTE]
YAs!
[QUOTE=gonnagiveittoya;5490780]Exactly, especially since in this instance it would basically require every Marvel book operate on the whims of the X-Men books, which is never going to happen[/QUOTE]
I was more thinking about finally using Krakoa as an excuse for the rest of Marvel to escape the world outside your window and embrace how much things would change if there was superhumans, aliens, killer robots and magic were a regular thing.
Now, the nature of the superhero genre does lean towards a more cyberpunk-noir to the proto-biopunk thing Krakoa is flirting with, but it would make for a good contrast.
About the only thing that such a move would negatively cause the rest of marvel would be, if the X-office keeps nixing marvel guys fighting X-foes, would be that it cements the rest of marvel’s character roster as x-men villains by default
Anyone bringing up garbage CompleX era stories as a basis for anything other than to say "Don't Do This Ever Again" just have not read the great runs of X-Men and other Marvel titles.
Deadly Genesis was the beginning of ripping apart everything fun and brilliant about the X-Men and putting a taint on the franchise.
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491342]I was more thinking about finally using Krakoa as an excuse for the rest of Marvel to escape the world outside your window and embrace how much things would change if there was superhumans, aliens, killer robots and magic were a regular thing.
Now, the nature of the superhero genre does lean towards a more cyberpunk-noir to the proto-biopunk thing Krakoa is flirting with, but it would make for a good contrast.
About the only thing that such a move would negatively cause the rest of marvel would be, if the X-office keeps nixing marvel guys fighting X-foes, would be that it cements the rest of marvel’s character roster as x-men villains by default[/QUOTE]
Ultimate Marvel was trying that right? It just became predictably excessive.
Or maybe it's because we went back and read those runs we are like well wtf happened epsecially when people are trying to what feels like benefit off one side of the equation. My first comic was a fantastic four comic. I'm not bitter but having been on this board i can only imagine how bitter x-fans who enjoy the times of past feel knowing they were thrown under the bus even if it was to save the company. I agree it's time to get over it but they have to start producing the stories for that to happen. I've read coates captain America and in a world where currently children are being outlawed etc it doesn't make sense to me Captain America is fighting the red skull and saving people in trade camps instead of barging into the facility juggernaunt was at detaining human and mutant super powered children. Why make the directive if you can't follow through. One can't live on stories of the past.
[QUOTE=Hizashi;5491345]Ultimate Marvel was trying that right? It just became predictably excessive.[/QUOTE]
I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491356]I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”[/QUOTE]
That's dark. I think people forget mutants can give birth to humans. I honestly feel that is the best way to finally address the issue when it comes up on Krakoa. I just don't think anyone is in a rush to get there. I actually feel like it would be a cop out to say humanity simply stops existing as they were because in life someone is always left behind. And even in terms of the marvel universe even by 2099 if it were to happen humans should still be being born unless they purposely try to breed them out which would be dark and just wrong imo.
But then i guess it has been addressed in the swense shogo is human so it's evident mutants don't hate humans so that's what makes it different. With Kyle and shogo there it's not like mutants want to actively get rid of humans or even hate them so... yeah
and now really thinking about it even if in universe can people really say the avengers are friends with mutants. I'm really trying to think now and i've seen Cap visit tchalla, show up to help same with carol and tony, all in their own books but aside from the she hulk scene with logan and pretty much only scenes with logan i can't think of a scene where these heroes went and checked in on their "friends"
[QUOTE=king of hybrids;5491356]I was more thinking, considering how New York-centric marvel is, would be to basically morph NYC into at least the beginnings of the 2099 version
As for Xavier’s dream of coexistence, courtesy of Morrison making Magneto right about Mutants being the next step in evolution (complete with baselines having a gene that renders them sterile once mutants reach a certain population threshold) that coexistence becomes less “mutants and man living in peace” and more “an orderly transition before Man goes into gently into that good night”[/QUOTE]
I don't know that Marvel needs to commit to such a dark interpretation, but this is kinda like what I wanted when I said I'd rather see integration of mutant kind.