[QUOTE=marhawkman;5750605]Enh... as you say their business is managing IP.... not creating it. :/ Which is why I suspect they'll want to hang on to old characters even more.[/QUOTE]
Oh, for sure, you are 110% right there. For every big Ironheart project, we will get a Tony Stark Iron Man project not too long after. Like I said, the IP model is additive. They won’t get rid of old characters. See Jean Grey for details.
[QUOTE=Mik;5750612]Stop! You're making it political/s[/QUOTE]
It’s not politics. It’s demographics.
The MCU is probably gonna commit to passing the Torch. So even if the comics don't commit, we will have some version of it playing out.
[QUOTE=the illustrious mr. kenway;5750900]The MCU is probably gonna commit to passing the Torch. So even if the comics don't commit, we will have some version of it playing out.[/QUOTE]
I really hope so. I hope that the multiverse won't be an excuse to bring back Stark or Rogers.
[QUOTE=Brian B;5750651]It’s not politics. It’s demographics.[/QUOTE]
I was being sarcastic. Anytime a minority replaces a majority hero, someone complains it's 'politicizing' comics
[QUOTE=the illustrious mr. kenway;5750900]The MCU is probably gonna commit to passing the Torch. So even if the comics don't commit, we will have some version of it playing out.[/QUOTE]
I don't always say 'MCU' does it better (because it sometimes doesn't), but when I do, it's because it does seem like a permanently evolving universe
[QUOTE=Mik;5749536]Why not? What's wrong with trying something new? And what's great about seeing the same things over again all the time?
Again, why?[/QUOTE]
1) I have no problem trying something new. And I don’t think there’s anything great about seeing the same things over and over again all the time. But when you state “maybe fans should be open to these ideas” what you’re really saying is “everyone should think the way I do” and I can’t support that.
2) you want to try something new. You don’t want to see the same things over and over all the time. But that’s just what a legacy character is to me. It’s doing things halfway. I prefer to see compelling new characters that are more unique rather than see someone else’s take over the same old mantle.
I thought this whole legacy thing they've been doing is just so that they have characters established and ready to go in case they actually lose the rights in all these upcoming court cases. If marvel wins and gets the rights then the legacy characters who make no profit wil go back in their box.
[QUOTE=ARkadelphia;5751386]1) I have no problem trying something new. And I don’t think there’s anything great about seeing the same things over and over again all the time. But when you state “maybe fans should be open to these ideas” what you’re really saying is “everyone should think the way I do” and I can’t support that. [/QUOTE]
I never said. Please, don't assume things. I don't even like all of these new ideas but I notice some fans seem to dislike any change at all.
[QUOTE=ARkadelphia;5751386]2) you want to try something new. You don’t want to see the same things over and over all the time. But that’s just what a legacy character is to me. It’s doing things halfway. I prefer to see compelling new characters that are more unique rather than see someone else’s take over the same old mantle.[/QUOTE]
I don't really agree. I don't see what's 'not compelling' about a character inspired by a previous one.
There is this default assumption among some people that going with a legacy character is inherently more "ballsy" or "open-minded" than sticking to the OG, but there is no good logical reason to think this. It's not inherently more open-minded anymore than sticking to the OG is inherently closed-minded.
This mentality also runs into problems when you consider the number of people who believe that legacy characters can co-exist with the original versions. Is a guy like Grant Morrison inherently more "open-minded" for establishing Dick Grayson as Batman and wanting him to stick around against DC's wishes, or is he inherently more "closed-minded" for bringing Bruce back? After all, the man wanted both. What would he be if we think in binary terms?
[QUOTE=DrewHLMW;5751403]I thought this whole legacy thing they've been doing is just so that they have characters established and ready to go in case they actually lose the rights in all these upcoming court cases. If marvel wins and gets the rights then the legacy characters who make no profit wil go back in their box.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I suspect this has a lot to do with how Marvel's lineup has changed so drastically in the recent years. Disney doesn't like not fully owning the IPs they use. But in the case of comics it's not the franchise as a whole but individual characters, so.... purging the ones they don't fully own is possible.
Yes, but only because I want the overgrown children to throw a fit.
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5753271]Yes, but only because I want the overgrown children to throw a fit.[/QUOTE]
No one should listen to anyone.... If your reason is "I want people to suffer and get angry about things" you're being a bad person.
I was originally in the "I'm against legacy characters" camp but, after reading this thread I think... I'm very much against legacy characters.
Primarily, because of posters like the one above, I realize I've come across enough people that just aren't making good faith arguments about the situation.
There are enough people who are like *HWWK SPIT* "The death of progressivism" and people who are like *Embrace Change!*/*Tear it down!" that honest people in the
center get drowned out. The center MUST hold.
I just want great stories and the honest truth is you don't get the best stories when the motivation for the change isn't "Lets make the best story every" but "We need another female/black/gay/etc." representation based hero. You don't get the best stories when you handcuff to keep those same voices out.
Even being black I was pretty uninspired and slightly disgusted but Sam Wilson Captain America. Its a wildly mediocre tale told by people the most unsubtle company, and weakest grasp of nuance. It does a disservice to the falcon (who I guess
just isn't a character with enough gravitas), but I admit the MCU version of the passing made a bit more sense, then the show was mediocre too. Smh.
In theory the characters need to grow and change but not so people can age them out and install characters that reflect "Modern Sensibilities" thats just poison. That idea doesn't attract new readers it actually adds to the reason that people are flocking to manga. Manga still recognizes that the "Heroes Journey is still a story worth telling. Maybe the only story.
The idea that the characters are "problematic" and need to be changed is mistaken and the idea that nostalgia holds change back is mistaken as well. I've heard people wanting Blue Marvel hand his legacy down to his kids because him "obeying" kennedy's request to step down was basically traitorous, and not just in this thread.
They'd rather have stories angry young black demigod, I guess, and maybe thats compelling because the stories ends with him being just like his old man. Choosing peace over destruction. otherwise its a story about a villain.
Finally. . . and maybe most important. It feels so lazy. Theres this big lie about people not wanting new characters so we gotta do legacies. No. You want the existing fans PLUS whoever else you can pull in without THE RISK. Without the effort. These character didn't get big as they are overnight and legacy tries to circumvent that. Its lame.
I bought "Collapser" from dc when it came out cause I thought "that sounds cool", but I don't "NEED" to try new things. The companies need to get customers to try new things. The big comics companies have been too used to dealing with fans aka fanatics aka Marvel zombies... but really people have too many entertainment options to take just anything now.
Cool story. I’m still down for legacies if only to hear people whine. We have to change with the world, and grasping onto an aging fan base isn’t the way to go.
I’m tired of hearing people complain about stories sucking that they’ve never read. Or about if they are doing it to attract a new demographic, won’t even give the book or creative team a chance.
People already complain about lack of originality. I can't imagine how this helps.