Why are we so focused on quality of story or good writing, aren't those a given? Like every and any direction and character needs that. So saying it could work with good writing is kinda missing the point because that a given.
It should be which settings and directions give nightwing the creativity, freedom, uniqueness, niche and impact within the Batman mythos and dcu as a whole! Good writing is a given.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5885979]Why are we so focused on quality of story or good writing, aren't those a given?[/QUOTE]
Alas, quality writing is not a given at all. Not at DC. Not with Nightwing.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5885620]It wasn't my favorite Batgirl costume, but the Murphy suit was a little underrated in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I like the cowl on her, that mask was more huntress
[QUOTE=Ascended;5885984]Alas, quality writing is not a given at all. Not at DC. Not with Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
No not that a character WILL have quality writing, but that characters, SHOULD have quality writing.
Saying Bludhaven, any city, or any setting could work for Nightwing with quality writing is kinda a non argument because it doesn't answer the question of why one direction or setting is better for Nightwing than the other.
Why should I continue taking the left direction when some say the right direction is better for me? You just need more good quality driving!! Oh thanks.
I had really prayed on the batgirl film being the entryway for him
I hope it pans out
[QUOTE=Ascended;5885984]Alas, quality writing is not a given at all. Not at DC. Not with Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but every fan of every character and of every direction wants good writing and good art. It doesn't really say anything.
[SUP][/SUP]It’s a popular notion that all it takes is good writing and good art. But if only it was that simple. Tim’s gen is seeing that a lot right now.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5886242]It’s a popular notion that all it takes is good writ and good art. But if only it was that simple. Tim’s gen is seeing that a lot right now.[/QUOTE]
Yeah if the answer was just good writing than midnighter, Martian manhunter, starfire and black canary would all still have books.
The point being that good writing should be a given. Something every book has, so bringing it up as an answer to character, setting or direction is a non argument.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5886283]Yeah if the answer was just good writing than midnighter, Martian manhunter, starfire and black canary would all still have books.
The point being that good writing should be a given. Something every book has, so bringing it up as an answer to character, setting or direction is a non argument.[/QUOTE]
Starfire? That run was not great
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5886379]Starfire? That run was not great[/QUOTE]
I enjoyed her book more than I did Black Canary's, but it was DCYou, the quality and stories were all over the place.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5886499]I enjoyed her book more than I did Black Canary's, but it was DCYou, the quality and stories were all over the place.[/QUOTE]
They felt out of place. I wish they were better, black canary had a bad attitude that era
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5886242][SUP][/SUP]It’s a popular notion that all it takes is good writing and good art. But if only it was that simple. Tim’s gen is seeing that a lot right now.[/QUOTE]
When was the last time Tim's gen had good writing? But point taken.
[QUOTE=Drako;5884554]I don't remember Seeley writing Dick in NY. Also, how is NY or Chicago better than Bludhaven other than personal bias?
The first arc Higgins did in Chicago was about Tony Zucco, cause he wanted to make the city more personal to Dick, same thing people complain about Miranda right now..
Also, there is zero supporting characters for that era worth noticing.[/QUOTE]
Lmao I’m so sorry! I meant Tomasi! I had a lil Freudian slip there.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5885979]Why are we so focused on quality of story or good writing, aren't those a given? Like every and any direction and character needs that. So saying it could work with good writing is kinda missing the point because that a given.
It should be which settings and directions give nightwing the creativity, freedom, uniqueness, niche and impact within the Batman mythos and dcu as a whole! Good writing is a given.[/QUOTE]
So imma have to disagree here on the sole point that good writing and storytelling are very subjective and more often than not, comic books are not exactly the magnum opus of good writing. Good writing is necessary to hook the new readers. It’s not for comic book fans, it’s really for getting new fans and gaining a fanbase. If the quality of the storytelling of crap, then it’s likely new readers won’t continue forward. If your consistency is shot, it’s likely new readers will drop the book. Good writing will net you new readers. Good writing encompasses storytelling and consistency. People say Nightwing lacks in good writing Becuase his storytelling is stale and his mythos lack consistency.
The reason lots of books with good writing don’t sell at DC is solely because DC doesn’t market them. DC barely markets anything unless it’s connected to some movie or big event. Batman and Superman sell on name alone. Midnighter does not. That’s the difference.
So in essence, good writing is not a given. It never was. What’s a given, is the character themselves.
[QUOTE=MakeNightwingGreatAgain;5886745]
So in essence, good writing is not a given. It never was. WhatÂ’s a given, is the character themselves.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Yes, this. What I'm saying is, if you want to build the brand, then you have to make sure that whatever your creators are doing, they're doing it really well. That is far, far from the only consideration and not even the most important one, y'all are blowing my comment out of proportion here. But a fantastic concept poorly handled isn't as good as a basic bitch approach that's well done.
The details of the direction have to fit within the wheelhouse of the talent you can put on it. That's all I was saying. Not something that matters for the theorycrafting and faux pitching that we do here, but irl, if all you got is a Lobdell, you don't try to make him write Tolstoy. Or even Ellis.
Regardless, setting aside the debate of whether quality is to be assumed or not, I think we agree on the rest.
Getting back to the setting, like I said I prefer a global approach but for a home base? I'm inclined to keep Bludhaven with the caveat that it needs a lot of development and TLC and that prior versions of the city should be cherry picked into the cast, rogues gallery, layout, and nature of the city to provide a framework to build on. Dick's been there off and on for over two decades, seems like we're stuck with the place so we might as well build it into something worth keeping.
If not the Blud, I like Vegas and NYC. Vegas feels very "Dick Grayson" to me, and I could see a rebuilt Haly's fitting in nicely there. NYC is a city no DC hero has truly been able to hold onto, but I think it's a fitting location; the place can be as bright as Metropolis and as gritty as Gotham, and that's perfect for Nightwing. Between the two I'd go Vegas, or a proxy like Vanity or some new city. Hell, take the Jump City name from GO! if you need to.
A neighborhood in Gotham, like Burnside, is, I suppose, acceptable but not anything I'd really approve of. Burnside worked for the kind of story that run was telling but Nightwing protecting a neighborhood of Bruce's city is not A-list behavior. That's not building Nightwing as a IP that can stand on its own two feet. But since I envision a global Nightwing who wouldn't be in his hometown all that much, it's not a huge deal either way...as long as the place feels like Dick's home and reflects his character.