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[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892209]an Aquaman ongoing should be about Arthur and Mera.[/QUOTE]
Mera is not the only Aquaman supporting character.
[QUOTE]It's not just those two books that are prelude to the series, but mainly Green Arrow and Aquaman book. All those 3 books are a disaster at sales, especially the Becoming. [/QUOTE]
Aquaman sales have been dropping even with Mera.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892738]and now viable properties are not buried as well?[/QUOTE]
No.
[QUOTE] you have a character that got a billion box office, has a new movie on the way, gets replaced with someone that hardly beats pennyworth at sales? [/QUOTE]
No one is getting replaced.
[QUOTE]now people are given books and left to put into these books their personal and political views. [/QUOTE]
So, pretty much how superhero comics have been written since Superman's original stories.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;5892764]Mera is not the only Aquaman supporting character.
Aquaman sales have been dropping even with Mera.[/QUOTE]
Disagree, Mera status today is not that of a supporting character. Mera of the 60's was as you say. The character has become immensely popular, with a growing fanbase, in south America especially in Brazil her popularity exceeds that of Arthur, her collectible statues are all sold out, minus one which was far from good looking. Her graphic novel did extremely well beyond expectations.
Aquaman comics suffered a significant drop when Mera was mostly in the sidelines of KSD initial run and the book never recovered. She did not appear for the first 7 issues, afterwards briefly in some panels, than again out until the last 2 issues in which she is finally prominent.
The Johns and Parker run which focused on Mera and Arthur proves you are mistaken. It sold as never before.
From an interview by Parker on multiversitycomics[I]"he has a healthy relationship with his wife. It doesn’t have to be a source of tension. There’s all these things you can show; you can tell stories about a couple that are exciting and it doesn’t have to be like “Oh, are they gonna break up?” You can show what a boss Mera is, and it’s fun. And the fun thing is that Aquaman actually isn’t worried about her all the time. “Oh, no, my wife can absolutely kick ass. I’m just going to trust her to do this thing while I do this other thing because I know she can get it done.”[/I]No wonder Parker did so well even in sales.
When abnett separated them the book started to lose sales.
BTW Mera solo by far outsold the becoming
[QUOTE=Agent Z;5892770]No.
No one is getting replaced.
So, pretty much how superhero comics have been written since Superman's original stories.[/QUOTE]
No one is being replaced seriously? explain why in his 80th anniversary Aquaman gets no book? while his side kick gets one. Explain the new ongoing is named AquaMEN not AquaMan? on what basis, Jackson is far from being a popular character, Garth is more popular but not that it would make any difference.
Since when DC discovered that a monarchy is not an american thing so it has to be canceled? With that reasoning Hollywood should stop doing movies about King Arthur because being a king is not american.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892738]and now viable properties are not buried as well? you have a character that got a billion box office, has a new movie on the way, gets replaced with someone that hardly beats pennyworth at sales?[/QUOTE]
The direct market for comic books is totally divorced from the mainstream entertainment market. Aquaman can have a billion dollar movie and Green Arrow can have a multi-season television series, but they are not viable properties on the publishing side without getting superstar creators to write them and DC's rolodex for these creators are very thin since Morrison/Johns/Snyder are pretty much gone.
[quote]
now people are given books and left to put into these books their personal and political views. Not to mention the arrogance certain editors currently have towards fans. Dc was and is a mess.[/quote]
And these sound like more personals issues you have with DC and not actual issues that exist within DC such as their total lack of staff and the current sales driven decision making with them flooding the market with Batbooks.
[QUOTE=Bruce Wayne;5892974]The direct market for comic books is totally divorced from the mainstream entertainment market. Aquaman can have a billion dollar movie and Green Arrow can have a multi-season television series, but they are not viable properties on the publishing side without getting superstar creators to write them and DC's rolodex for these creators are very thin since Morrison/Johns/Snyder are pretty much gone.
[B]And these sound like more personals issues you have with DC and not actual issues that exist.[/B][/QUOTE]
really? personal issues? Was it me who abolished the atlantean monarchy because it is not an american thing? seriously they don't exist?
They are not viable properties because no effort is done, Parker was not Johns, but his Aquaman did very well, which contradicts what you are saying.
Again you fail to understand that exploiting a movie success just not comes down only to comics. You can exploit a movie hit through various media. Comics is probably the least profitable of that media. Marvel throws out endless merchandise of the characters that have great success at movies, why does DC don't do that?
Books having politics is not a complaint I'll ever understand. The complaint usually seems to be less that and more "It has politics I don't agree with" tbh.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892992]
They are not viable properties because no effort is done, Parker was not Johns, but his Aquaman did very well, which contradicts what you are saying.
[/quote] Except that's not true. Parker did worse than Johns. Johns was doing between 60-40K (and even the low end was because he didn't have a big name artist like Reis near the end). Parker was always doing ~30K and only cracked 40K once and a lot of that "success" was probably because he inherited the book from Johns.
The complaints about the situation don't make sense. DC has to make the next ongoing viable and they don't have Johns or any big name writer on hand so they have to change things. Seems to me, DC is less playing politics and more trying to get an Aquaman book that won't be cancelled.
[quote]Again you fail to understand that exploiting a movie success just not comes down only to comics. [/quote] We are talking about the comics here. Merchandising is a whole separate thing.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892777]Disagree, Mera status today is not that of a supporting character. Mera of the 60's was as you say. The character has become immensely popular, with a growing fanbase, in south America especially in Brazil her popularity exceeds that of Arthur, her collectible statues are all sold out, minus one which was far from good looking. Her graphic novel did extremely well beyond expectations.
[/QUOTE]
And Jackson Hyde/Kaldur is popular thanks to his appearances on Young Justice. It isn't like they gave Lagoon Boy an ongoing. Mera is not going anywhere.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5892780]No one is being replaced seriously? explain why in his 80th anniversary Aquaman gets no book? while his side kick gets one.[/QUOTE]
His sidekick getting a book in the 80th Anniversary is not the same as getting replaced.
[QUOTE] Explain the new ongoing is named AquaMEN not AquaMan? [/QUOTE]
Listen to yourself. "Aquamen" very strongly implies there will be two of them as opposed to a replacement.
[QUOTE]on what basis, Jackson is far from being a popular character, Garth is more popular but not that it would make any difference. [/QUOTE]
Garth hasn't been a popular character since the 90s. Ironically, the way the Aquaman franchise has handled its supporting cast is pretty similar to the criticisms you've levelled against DC as a whole in how they handle their characters. In Aquaman's case, Mera has been the sole supporting character focused on while everyone else was killed off, pushed to the sidelines or disappeared entirely. You complain about DC not diversifying their character roster but when they do just that, you have a problem because its with characters you don't care for.
[QUOTE]Since when DC discovered that a monarchy is not an american thing so it has to be canceled? With that reasoning Hollywood should stop doing movies about King Arthur because being a king is not american.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you're talking about. DC didn't cancel Wonder Woman whose comic book is about a monarch. And again, Aquaman is getting an ongoing, so what are you complaining about?
[QUOTE=Bruce Wayne;5893223]Except that's not true. Parker did worse than Johns. Johns was doing between 60-40K (and even the low end was because he didn't have a big name artist like Reis near the end). Parker was always doing ~30K and only cracked 40K once and a lot of that "success" was probably because he inherited the book from Johns.
The complaints about the situation don't make sense. DC has to make the next ongoing viable and they don't have Johns or any big name writer on hand so they have to change things. Seems to me, DC is less playing politics and more trying to get an Aquaman book that won't be cancelled.
We are talking about the comics here. Merchandising is a whole separate thing.[/QUOTE]
First of all I did not say Parker was doing well as Johns, his run had an average of 36k which by any standards DC would take anytime for Aquaman. No, his run was not doing well because he took from Johns, but remained constant in sales. He cracked the 40k sales well after Geoff left. Ask any Aquafan and they would relate that Parker's run was solid. He also had to deal with a competitor book Aquaman and the Others. If DC is not trying to get the book canceled, than they have chosen the wrong writer, since he has scored the lowest sales possible with the two books they have given him.
We weren't just talking comics, but we have been discussing also other media.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;5893317]His sidekick getting a book in the 80th Anniversary is not the same as getting replaced.
Listen to yourself. "Aquamen" very strongly implies there will be two of them as opposed to a replacement.
Garth hasn't been a popular character since the 90s. Ironically, the way the Aquaman franchise has handled its supporting cast is pretty similar to the criticisms you've levelled against DC as a whole in how they handle their characters. In Aquaman's case, Mera has been the sole supporting character focused on while everyone else was killed off, pushed to the sidelines or disappeared entirely. You complain about DC not diversifying their character roster but when they do just that, you have a problem because its with characters you don't care for.
I have no idea what you're talking about. DC didn't cancel Wonder Woman whose comic book is about a monarch. And again, Aquaman is getting an ongoing, so what are you complaining about?[/QUOTE]
AquaMen strongly implies that Arthur Curry will not be the main lead but a co-star. When Arthur Curry probably is at the height of his fame. There won't be a book named Aquaman in a year in which his new movie will be released. Sharing a book is not the same as Having a book. Why on Earth Arthur Curry has to share a book?
Mera has been put to the forefront because she has become very popular and sells. Her breakout started with Blackest Night. She became afterwards the co-star not supporting cast. Even the Aquaman movie official poster has Mera side by side with Arthur. As Johns rightfully said, she is one of the strongest female characters in DC. Now they reduced her to stay at home Mom.
I complain about throwing away a winning formula in comics that has kept Aquaman in print for one of the longest periods in his history. Besides it has nothing to do with diversifying roosters, I also complain about not making the most of characters that are doing well at movies. Not just in comics!!
Now you don't make the most with characters that nobody knows about, except a very few. That said, I complain that poor Jackson has been given a writer that is sinking the character and now will also drag down Arthur. Nearly all FS characters are doing badly at sales, even the standout character of FS, Yara Flor has got canceled.
As for the monarchy, In aquaman comics the monarchy has been abolished because the writer did not like the concept of a monarchy as it is unAmerican. Now if the writer of WW did not do that, is because he/she did not put her personal views into the story, That is the issue.
FYI I am one of the few(it seems) that liked KSD run, but on the monarchy she let her personal/political outlooks get into the middle.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5894408]He cracked the 40k sales well after Geoff left.
[/QUOTE]
Not true. He did it only six issues Johns left and it was only because of a variant cover.
[QUOTE]
Ask any Aquafan and they would relate that Parker's run was solid. [/QUOTE]
I don't agree at all. I think Johns run is the gold standard and Parker fell short of that. Like he admitted, he focused his run too much on Aquaman fighting monsters. The only good ideas he had was tying Gorilla City to Atlantis and introducing Atlanna except that was botched since he got fired for Bunn and had to wrap up several issues of build up in one issue.
[QUOTE=Goldrake;5894408]
AquaMen strongly implies that Arthur Curry will not be the main lead but a co-star.[/QUOTE]
Which is not the same thing as being replaced.
[QUOTE]There won't be a book named Aquaman in a year in which his new movie will be released.[/QUOTE]
Seems you're more bothered by the name than anything else.
[QUOTE] Sharing a book is not the same as Having a book. Why on Earth Arthur Curry has to share a book?[/QUOTE]
By your logic, this is what Arthur has been doing for the past several years but with Mera instead of Jackson.
[QUOTE]Mera has been put to the forefront because she has become very popular and sells. [/QUOTE]
So why not give other Aquaman characters this chance? Why is it Mera the only Aquaman character allowed to become a breakout hit? It's not like she was this way from the beginning. It took her six decades to reach this position.
[QUOTE] Now they reduced her to stay at home Mom. [/QUOTE]
Before, you said they'd made her Jackson's sidekick. Which one is it?
[QUOTE]I complain about throwing away a winning formula in comics that has kept Aquaman in print for one of the longest periods in his history. [/QUOTE]
Again, this is the same excuse often given for why DC keeps relying on Batman so much. Jackson isn't some nobody fans would be unfamiliar with either. You complaining about them not using him despite his appearances and popularity on Young Justice is ironic since you keep insisting DC should take advantage of all media.
[QUOTE]That said, I complain that poor Jackson has been given a writer that is sinking the character and now will also drag down Arthur. [/QUOTE]
You know nothing of this because the book hasn't even come out yet.
[QUOTE]
As for the monarchy, In aquaman comics the monarchy has been abolished because the writer did not like the concept of a monarchy as it is unAmerican. Now if the writer of WW did not do that, is because he/she did not put her personal views into the story, That is the issue.
FYI I am one of the few(it seems) that liked KSD run, but on the monarchy she let her personal/political outlooks get into the middle.[/QUOTE]
Wonder Woman had the monarchy disbanded back in the 2000s. It was one of the best written periods of the book. And again, writers putting their politics into the stories they write is nothing new.
I’m just amazed that comic book fans and the general audiences are still clamoring for more Batman origin stories and year one stories. How many times do people need to see the Waynes get murdered?!?
In the short time that Batman has been around, he has been able to establish a legacy. He is a character that is so well-known that he can be used in any situation.
The Dark Knight has been around for over 80 years and is still going strong. It seems like no matter what, the DC universe will always have Batman.
Batman's success has made him a fan favorite, and it's hard to imagine him being replaced by another character anytime soon.