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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2485393]Having admitted to not having read this issue, I do want to caution people to avoid interpreting biased characters and their beliefs as retcons. Not seeing T'Challa somewhere and, therefore, believing he wasn't there (particularly since he did leave fairly quickly to deal with the rest of that stupid event) might possibly be their belief without it necessarily being true. I don't know, that's my blind No-Prize explanation. Obviously, I have no idea if it works without having read the story.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with character's themselves having biases, but it's much better when said biases are based on what actually happened. The MA's statement(s) and the underlying "theme" in this book insinuates--often overtly--that T'Challa wasn't there during the relief efforts. He obviously was, as AvX shows.
Mentioning that he was there, but later left with the Avengers to address a problem associated to what went down would've been more accurate and wouldn't require much dialogue change either, nor would it negate the MA's overall displeasure. But as is, it does read like T'Challa not only wasn't there, but flat out didn't care.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2485461]I'm not sure if realism is his problem. It's as fantastical as any other Marvel comic out there now. It's got gadgets, mind control, trees grabbing people, women in high tech armor, mutant teleporters, superhero guest stars, women in the spirit world, foreign criminal masterminds, soul tracking...it's just that it's done in such a lackluster and slow moving way.[/QUOTE]
The pacing, lack of/subpar action scenes, and the faux pas (trafficking camps and #5 meeting) are what are messing the potential of this current run. Removing the faux pas alone results in the story being better received by a lot of people. Remove that and one of the remaining two weaknesses and this season is in far better shape.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2485393]Having admitted to not having read this issue, I do want to caution people to avoid interpreting biased characters and their beliefs as retcons. Not seeing T'Challa somewhere and, therefore, believing he wasn't there (particularly since he did leave fairly quickly to deal with the rest of that stupid event) might possibly be their belief without it necessarily being true. I don't know, that's my blind No-Prize explanation. Obviously, I have no idea if it works without having read the story.[/QUOTE]
No no prize needed. It wasn't stated that T'Challa never helped. Merely that he wasn't helping. We know for a fact that he leaves to assist the Avengers, so it's a simple matter to assume she said that after he left.
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So she said T'Challa wasn't helping but we know for a fact he was helping. So it's a simple matter to assume Gay is full of shit for stating something that wasn't the case without any context to clarify... since doing so would take away from the narrative she wants to impose in this story.
Makes sense, and didn't need to pull out the astral plane balance beams either :)
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2485576]So she said T'Challa wasn't helping but we know for a fact he was helping. So it's a simple matter to assume Gay is full of shit for stating something that wasn't the case without any context to clarify... since doing so would take away from the narrative she wants to impose in this story.
Makes sense, and didn't need to pull out the astral plane balance beams either :)[/QUOTE]
We know he was helping at one point, but we don't know he was helping when she said he wasn't helping.
It doesn't take astral balance beams to assume she said it at a time he wasn't. We already know for a fact that he did indeed stop helping to rebuild Wakanda so that he could go off and help the Avengers. And the narrative in that scene is that some people in Wakanda aren't happy about that. He firstly placed Wakanda in danger to help the Avengers, then prioritized helping the Avengers above helping Wakanda rebuld from an attack that had nothing to do with Wakanda in the first place. And she was unhappy about that, even if T'Challa probably did the right thing when looking at the big picture. And that's the narrative we're getting in that scene. A narrative that works perfectly well without anything needing to be retconned. And the reason it works is because it's an understandable complaint, even if it's biased. She's only looking at Wakanda's perspective rather than the big picture. But with thousands of Wakandans having lost their lives because of T'Challa's decision to assist the Avengers, I don't think you can entirely fault her for that.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2485615]We know he was helping at one point, but we don't know he was helping when she said he wasn't helping.
It doesn't take astral balance beams to assume she said it at a time he wasn't. We already know for a fact that he did indeed stop helping to rebuild Wakanda so that he could go off and help the Avengers. And the narrative in that scene is that some people in Wakanda aren't happy about that. He firstly placed Wakanda in danger to help the Avengers, then prioritized helping the Avengers above helping Wakanda rebuld from an attack that had nothing to do with Wakanda in the first place. And she was unhappy about that, even if T'Challa probably did the right thing when looking at the big picture. And that's the narrative we're getting in that scene. A narrative that works perfectly well without anything needing to be retconned. And the reason it works is because it's an understandable complaint, even if it's biased. She's only looking at Wakanda's perspective rather than the big picture. But with thousands of Wakandans having lost their lives because of T'Challa's decision to assist the Avengers, I don't think you can entirely fault her for that.[/QUOTE]
[B]The mental gymnastics you apply to this arguments would make Yoda jealous.
Gay is adding in plenty of retconned bullshit to tell her biased story. Yes it's been biased since day 1 and utterly ridiculous. Do you know how many times served got brought up? Tchalla doesn't expect them to serve him in all ways, most of the time they are there for effect only and T'Challa handles his business. Aneka/Gay brings up the marriage thing, something that Tchalla has never shown a hint of interest and it's Only for ceremonial purposes and not an actual thing being done by any Panther. Ontop of that falling away to them protecting the Royal family.
So why would she say that? Because Gay wants to paint this feminist biased story that Tchalla doesn't care and look how bad he is and the we are the victims shit..
They aren't Interesting characters they are walking stereotypes. Boring and lame ones. [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2485671][B]The mental gymnastics you apply to this arguments would make Yoda jealous.
Gay is adding in plenty of retconned bullshit to tell her biased story. Yes it's been biased since day 1 and utterly ridiculous. Do you know how many times served got brought up? Tchalla doesn't expect them to serve him in all ways, most of the time they are there for effect only and T'Challa handles his business. Aneka/Gay brings up the marriage thing, something that Tchalla has never shown a hint of interest and it's Only for ceremonial purposes and not an actual thing being done by any Panther. Ontop of that falling away to them protecting the Royal family.
So why would she say that? Because Gay wants to paint this feminist biased story that Tchalla doesn't care and look how bad he is and the we are the victims shit..
They aren't Interesting characters they are walking stereotypes. Boring and lame ones. [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesn't take mental gymnastics to assume she said he wasn't helping when he wasn't helping. It just takes common sense. Again we KNOW for a fact that he did stop helping rebuild to go help the Avengers. Assuming she said this after he left isn't that hard at all.
And YES the perspective we're getting is biased. This story comes from the Dora's perspective, and they don't see T'Challa's side of the story. They don't get the whole picture in this story because they weren't there for all of it. She's pissed off that thousands of Wakandans were murdered. She clearly is upset that T'Challa is prioritizing the needs of the Avengers even if it comes at Wakanda's expense in the short term at least, and that creates a bias. The loss of thousands of lives can make ones perspective far less charitable.
The point of the story isn't that T'Challa doesn't care but rather that she's starting to believe he doesn't care. Just because a character says something doesn't mean the character is right. A lot of character are saying negative things about the title characters... characters who end up being the "bad guys" in the main book. That's no accident. And bad guys typically have a poor opinion of the good guys... but again that doesn't make them right. In her case she does have some valid points in regards to T'Challa bringing the Avengers to Wakanda and working with Namor (points a handful of posters on this thread from time to time do criticize T'Challa over). But their perspective is also flawed, both because they don't see the whole picture and because they are understandably upset with the string of tradjecies befalling Wakanda.
Bad guys don't just wake up one day and decide to be bad guys. It's often a journey, and this essentially is that journey. This is how we get loyal body guards of T'Challa to become his enemies. This story isn't going to go out of it's way to defend T'Challas decisions because of they were shown defensible it wouldn't make sense that they would turn on him. It has to look bad at least to them.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2485425]Maybe you can make a case for Peter David because he had at least sold one story before giving up and going into sales. But Stan and Jim were given a chance without a [I]any[/I] professional standing. Stan was gofer and Jim was [I]some random kid.[/I] They didn't have to repeatedly submit scripts and then one day got their big break.[/QUOTE]
Yes. They were given A CHANCE. Backup stories and minor characters.
They weren't given their own books (with a guaranteed 12 issues) a spinoff exploring their new characters and major advertising coverage. They were more like CM Punk than TNC.
(And even Punk had a co-writer to show him the ropes.)
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^ Eh, this story is essentially the modern equivalent of a backup story with minor characters.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2485576]So she said T'Challa wasn't helping but we know for a fact he was helping. So it's a simple matter to assume Gay is full of shit for stating something that wasn't the case without any context to clarify... since doing so would take away from the narrative she wants to impose in this story. [/QUOTE]
Or just that the characters believe T'Challa wasn't helping. Thematically, all that matters is what they believe, not what was true. Like I said, don't assume a character's biased viewpoint (which exists to drive the story featuring that character) is a retcon.
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A good, recent example of "biased character interpretation based on some truth" was ironically done by Coatse in BP #3, concerning T'Challa and Shuri in TRO and T'Challa leaving while Shuri stayed.
Tetu (paraphrasing convo to T'Challa): You left our queen behind.
Fact: T'Challa did leave, while Shuri stayed behind.
Complete truth: Shuri chose and insisted to stay, despite T'Challa's initial objections, possibly to buy T'Challa some time to escape from wherever he was headed.
Obviously, there's no way Tetu could've known the complete truth, as Tetu simply wasn't there during T'Challa and Shuri's conversation. That said, the fact is Shuri stayed and T'Challa left. That Tetu misinterpreted that moment due to not having all the details--something Proxima Midnight did as well--isn't too surprising and is understandable.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2485889]Or just that the characters believe T'Challa wasn't helping. Thematically, all that matters is what they believe, not what was true. Like I said, don't assume a character's biased viewpoint (which exists to drive the story featuring that character) is a retcon.[/QUOTE]
The problem with the MA's statement(s) in WoW is twofold:
-Both the MAs and T'Challa were in Wakanda during the flood. Both the MAs and T'Challa were helping out during the recovery efforts. The MAs aren't random civilians who (on paper at least) wouldn't know better either. So for the book to even insinuate that he wasn't there at all is just false. Not to mention, at no point does Ayo or another character, including Ayo's superiors, clarify her statement. In fact, Aneka repeats a statement similar to Ayo's later in the story, during T'Challa's banning.
-The MA's statement(s) honestly weakens their story. At the moment their gripes in WoW almost feels manufactured, which it shouldn't. There are legitimate gripes the Doras (and anyone else) could've had with T'Challa during those times. We've seen such gripes play out already in the Hickman run via the Hatute Zeraze calling T'Challa a liar and a coward, the Doras turning on T'Challa and Shuri banning him shortly after. Thus, it was surprising to me that said MA statements were written the way they were. It was unnecessary. Hence why several readers openly wonder if there was some sort of agenda behind it.
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But but but
Would obama be there helping?
I thought that was the standard now post rape camps?
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2485466]The pacing, lack of/subpar action scenes, and the faux pas (trafficking camps and #5 meeting) are what are messing the potential of this current run. Removing the faux pas alone results in the story being better received by a lot of people. Remove that and one of the remaining two weaknesses and this season is in far better shape.[/QUOTE]
I think even just handling the faux pas in a different manner would help. If BP was shown on panel to be more concerned and more proactive in dealing with the camps and telling the dictators to go hell, I think would help somewhat for some fans.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2485954]I think even just handling the faux pas in a different manner would help. If BP was shown on panel to be more concerned and more proactive in dealing with the camps and telling the dictators to go hell[/QUOTE]
naw, you can't have the main protagonist be sympathetic at all.
Only time anyone felt antying for tchalla in this book is when his mom's almost died. In issue 4. for 2 pages.
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since its been nearly 24 hours...
ENERGY DAGGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[img]https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YBXRnC4sFXQ/WFr-Ovrf1sI/AAAAAAAAJRo/nT9UrTWly5cWgNOemDltzC6euBtbeSECgCLcB/s1600/ult2%2B1.JPG[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-W7O9MnpoTxY/WFr-OaBlLYI/AAAAAAAAJRk/-N-iv_vIq_8tEhKlSd3CtbKdI6Txhkz5ACLcB/s1600/ult2%2B2.JPG[/img]
[img]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qEL6Js_lI5o/WFr-Ocq2iLI/AAAAAAAAJRg/EWm1P6nbt24gRDm_8SGo4jqRGOv-VHzIwCLcB/s1600/ult2%2B3.JPG[/img]
lol carol be all like "wait, do you have a contingency plan for me?"
#worldsfinest
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2485823]Yes. They were given A CHANCE. Backup stories and minor characters.
They weren't given their own books (with a guaranteed 12 issues) a spinoff exploring their new characters and major advertising coverage. They were more like CM Punk than TNC.
(And even Punk had a co-writer to show him the ropes.)[/QUOTE]
Your larger point is correct. For the most part they want to know that you're able to structure a story, construct dialogue, hit deadlines etc before they give something "major". My point though, is that while that's true, it's not unheard of that they'll give people with limited experience visible gigs.
Again the problem for old BP fans isn't that Coates can't write, it's [B]what[/B] he's writing.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2485970]
Again the problem for old BP fans isn't that Coates can't write, it's [B]what[/B] he's writing.[/QUOTE]
See... this is where I have always disagreed with people. Others have the more... unsaviory aspects covered.
I don't think he can write comic books personally. I don't think he is good at it from a story perspective. Even throwing out that he isn't writing "muh T'challa."
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2485954]I think even just handling the faux pas in a different manner would help. If BP was shown on panel to be more concerned and more proactive in dealing with the camps and telling the dictators to go hell, I think would help somewhat for some fans.[/QUOTE]
True, it would've helped a lot. A whole lot, actually.
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The previews for BP #9 should be dropping any day now...
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/o5oLImoQgGsKY/giphy.gif[/IMG]
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Ta'nahesi Coates makes Hickman look like Malcolm X
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[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;2486039]Ta'nahesi Coates makes Hickman look like Malcolm X[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/697596/dead2.0.gif[/IMG]
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[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e4d39fO.jpg[/IMG]
Jeez now even Shuri is more assertive than T'challa
Full preview
[url]http://www.buzzcomics.net/showpost.php?p=1694569&postcount=1[/url]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2485973]See... this is where I have always disagreed with people. Others have the more... unsaviory aspects covered.
I don't think he can write comic books personally. I don't think he is good at it from a story perspective. Even throwing out that he isn't writing "muh T'challa."[/QUOTE]
I've complained about the pacing and mishandled action scenes. And I've complained about the mischaracterization of the hero. But I never thought, "This guy can't write dialogue" or "This guy doesn't understand narrative." I thought, "This doesn't work for the type of comic Black Panther should be."
It's like Bendis in a way. He's done some awful work on some titles, but he's been excellent on others. The stuff that wasn't so stuff hot wasn't proof that he was a bad writer on a technical level, but more that his style fits certain types of books better.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2486077]I've complained about the pacing and mishandled action scenes. And I've complained about the mischaracterization of the hero. But I never thought, "This guy can't write dialogue" or "This guy doesn't understand narrative." I thought, "This doesn't work for the type of comic Black Panther should be."
It's like Bendis in a way. He's done some awful work on some titles, but he's been excellent on others. The stuff that wasn't so stuff hot wasn't proof that he was a bad writer on a technical level, but more that his style fits certain types of books better.[/QUOTE]
This sort of thing is obviously subjective. Guys like Bendis and Loeb have been constantly taken to task in the boards over how bad their writing is, all the while having multiple Eisners collecting dust on their shelves. Different strokes for different folks. Given the relative critical success Coates has gotten in addition to the commercial aucess, we might draw some parallels there.
But in the least it's easy to see why this book isn'the for everyone.
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[img]http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net//2016-12/Marvel/BLAP2016009_int31.jpg[/img]
ILL FITTED FOR THE CROWN
[img]https://media.tenor.co/images/825788730461a5733c951e5e075e22c0/raw[/img]
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Man, who all in this thread writes books.
We need to make sure you guys start charting so that Marvel will take not and let one of you guys can fix this.
First Arc: "The Return of the King".
Second Arc: "Long Live the King".
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Azzari the Wise
T'chaka the Brave
S'yan the Swift
T'challa the Failure?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2486124]Azzari the Wise
T'chaka the Brave
S'yan the Swift
T'challa the Failure?[/QUOTE]
Failure isn't a accurate label. He's suceeded against impossible odds which other BP's likely can't even imagine.
But it's becoming more and more clear he's doesn't actuially want the job. T'Challa the Reluctant or the Indifferent maybe.
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I won't be surprised if Bast takes off her mask only to find out that Coates is the person behind the Mask and has been manipulating the events since AVX lol
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I'll accept this "result" only if it allows T'challa to play super hero in Season 2
pure super hero
no more "where is the king!" shit.
release the chains, let him be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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[B]Om my fucking god...[/B]
[img]http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net//2016-12/Marvel/BLAP2016009_int31.jpg[/img]
[B]Get the fuck outta here coates with your bullshit[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2485615][B]We know he was helping at one point, but we don't know he was helping when she said he wasn't helping.[/B]
It doesn't take astral balance beams to assume she said it at a time he wasn't. We already know for a fact that he did indeed stop helping to rebuild Wakanda so that he could go off and help the Avengers. And the narrative in that scene is that some people in Wakanda aren't happy about that. He firstly placed Wakanda in danger to help the Avengers, then prioritized helping the Avengers above helping Wakanda rebuld from an attack that had nothing to do with Wakanda in the first place. And she was unhappy about that, even if T'Challa probably did the right thing when looking at the big picture. And that's the narrative we're getting in that scene. A narrative that works perfectly well without anything needing to be retconned. And the reason it works is because it's an understandable complaint, even if it's biased. She's only looking at Wakanda's perspective rather than the big picture. But with thousands of Wakandans having lost their lives because of T'Challa's decision to assist the Avengers, I don't think you can entirely fault her for that.[/QUOTE]
LMAO
[IMG]http://www.thecoli.com/media/santana.1756/full[/IMG]
Where in the narrative does she say:
"Even though T'Challa was helping from the moment the flood occurred and concurrently denounced, annulled and banned his wife for all to see... i don't agree with him risking his life to stop the cosmic entity that caused the flood." :confused:
Sounds like she simply said he should be helping. But he was helping. ;) I'm sure Gay simply missed those scenes in AvX. Just like she missed the scenes where the HZ were present in that Hickman scene.
Oh and Ayo/Aneka, and those thousands of Wakandans are fictional characters. I don't fault fictional characters for this narrative. I'm pretty sure my critique was on Gay, the writer, and her "narrative". lol
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[QUOTE=XPac;2486134]Failure isn't a accurate label. He's suceeded against impossible odds which other BP's likely can't even imagine.
But it's becoming more and more clear he's doesn't actuially want the job. T'Challa the Reluctant or the Indifferent maybe.[/QUOTE]
[B]No Xpac He has proven multiple times that he wants the job that he loves his people, that he cares about Wakanda, and that he is the best fit for the job considering he wants to move Wakanda forward and be more proactive in the world. Coates is just full of Bullshit who wants to see T'Challa after 8 years without the crown and just getting back to status quo.. regress backwards instead of showing a powerful Black man rally his people against the worst imagined possibility. this facilitates Coates lies even more when he claimed he didn't know the end to SW2 yet had a whole story set up for him to mope around, be completely inept, ask for help form despotes, let rape camps happen and do nothing, and to top it off go on and say he is ill fit to rule? Shut the fuck up Coates[/B]
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2486156]LMAO
[IMG]http://www.thecoli.com/media/santana.1756/full[/IMG]
Where in the narrative does she say:
"Even though T'Challa was helping from the moment the flood occurred and concurrently denounced, annulled and banned his wife for all to see... i don't agree with him risking his life to stop the cosmic entity that caused the flood." :confused:
Sounds like she simply said he should be helping. But he was helping. ;) I'm sure Gay simply missed those scenes in AvX. Just like she missed the scenes where the HZ were present in that Hickman scene.
Oh and Ayo/Aneka, and those thousands of Wakandans are fictional characters. I don't fault fictional characters for this narrative. I'm pretty sure my critique was on Gay, the writer, and her "narrative". lol[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does say he should be helping. And we know that he WAS helping... we just don't know that he IS helping at that moment. Again, there's a difference.
I don't think the point was that the author was completely unaware he assisted in the recovery effort... I think the complaint was the Doras were unhappy that T'Challa was off helping the Avengers rather than helping Wakanda from HER perspective.
The difference between the Dora's perspective and T'Challa's is that those notions are one and the same for him. To the Doras, he's abandoning them to help the Avengers. To T'Challa, helping the Avengers helps the world and in effect helps Wakanda as well. It's just harder for a Dora to see that when thousands of Wakandans died in the Avengers effort to save the world.
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[IMG]http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net//2016-12/Marvel/BLAP2016009_int31.jpg[/IMG]
"Because I know I am ill-fitted for the crown"
Hahahahahahahah
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2486166][B]No Xpac He has proven multiple times that he wants the job that he loves his people, that he cares about Wakanda, and that he is the best fit for the job considering he wants to move Wakanda forward and be more proactive in the world. Coates is just full of Bullshit who wants to see T'Challa after 8 years without the crown and just getting back to status quo.. regress backwards instead of showing a powerful Black man rally his people against the worst imagined possibility. this facilitates Coates lies even more when he claimed he didn't know the end to SW2 yet had a whole story set up for him to mope around, be completely inept, ask for help form despotes, let rape camps happen and do nothing, and to top it off go on and say he is ill fit to rule? Shut the fuck up Coates[/B][/QUOTE]
It's certainly clear that he loves his people and cares about Wakanda. And it's certainly clear he's the best fit given he's the smartest most capable person in the country.
But whether or not he wants the job as king is a bit more debatable. There are enough elements to defend either stance on that matter.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2486090]This sort of thing is obviously subjective. Guys like Bendis and Loeb have been constantly taken to task in the boards over how bad their writing is, all the while having multiple Eisners collecting dust on their shelves. Different strokes for different folks. Given the relative critical success Coates has gotten in addition to the commercial aucess, we might draw some parallels there.[/QUOTE]
And I wonder how much of the perceived failure of craft here is down to writer/artist synergy (or lack of it).
With the old school Marvel style of scripting nobody knew exactly how much work the writer actually did on a script.
Dudes have been known to write one paragraph in total with a sentence that in there says "5 page fight scene here" and called it a day for that issue.
Whatever is going on here, like it or hate it, is the opposite of that.
This book would present very differently if it had been assigned to one of the legion of wannabe Jim Lees that are still in the industry.
Their anatomy is shaky (I'm being nice here) but they can do fight scenes. Sprouse and Stelfreeze are DC trained and they can do storytelling and anatomy
but....their fight scenes are never gonna be exciting (and I've seen Sprouse's work from the Legion days).
I'm not saying that would change people's impressions of the content of story as written, but that is probably an issue here because I doubt Coates is
writing out the choreo for his fight scenes.
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Thank the Bird Goddess that Wakanda has a worthy monarch now!
Because, after all, she was actually IN CHARGE when half the stuff with Namor, Thanos, and the incursions went down, but it was CLEARLY T'Challa's fault.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2486175]And I wonder how much of the perceived failure of craft here is down to writer/artist synergy (or lack of it).
With the old school Marvel style of scripting nobody knew exactly how much work the writer actually did on a script.
Dudes have been known to write one paragraph in total with a sentence that in there says "5 page fight scene here" and called it a day for that issue.
Whatever is going on here, like it or hate it, is the opposite of that.
This book would present very differently if it had been assigned to one of the legion of wannabe Jim Lees that are still in the industry.
Their anatomy is shaky (I'm being nice here) but they can do fight scenes. Sprouse and Stelfreeze are DC trained and they can do storytelling and anatomy
but....their fight scenes are never gonna be exciting (and I've seen Sprouse's work from the Legion days).
I'm not saying that would change people's impressions of the content of story as written, but that is probably an issue here because I doubt Coates is
writing out the choreo for his fight scenes.[/QUOTE]
Coates has straight up publically stated he's not good at the fight scenes. One would think that would mean the artists would have greater responsibility to step up and take more direct role in that aspect. But obviously that's just speculation... who knows.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2486172]It's certainly clear that he loves his people and cares about Wakanda. And it's certainly clear he's the best fit given he's the smartest most capable person in the country.
But whether or not he wants the job as king is a bit more debatable. There are enough elements to defend either stance on that matter.[/QUOTE]
[B]Actually there are more showings that he does like being king and and he wants to be then showings that he doesn't. Just because Coates is spinning this tail doesn't automatically mean now that he has never wanted the job, despite coates eforts to try and make it appear that way with shit like "I am more scientist then king"[/B]
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2486178]Thank the Bird Goddess that Wakanda has a worthy monarch now!
Because, after all, she was actually IN CHARGE when half the stuff with Namor, Thanos, and the incursions went down, but it was CLEARLY T'Challa's fault.[/QUOTE]
Yup, I do think that's the inherent flaw in the thinking of those who believe T'Challa shouldn't be in charge. All the really bad stuff happened when he wasn't sitting on the throne. You can still blame T'Challa to some degree because he was the one that LIKELY invited the Avengers to stay in Wakanda (though we don't know that for sure) and he's the one who kept the Cabal hidden there. But if he does that stuff even when he's not in charge, then taking him off the throne really doesn't change anything.
But I think that's part of the reason why the long term goal here isn't just about getting a different person on the throne... it's about changing the system. It's not about making Shuri the ruler of Wakanda... it's about forming a republic. Shuri sitting on the throne isn't the sollution to their problems... that's already proven.