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Re: Eden and (spoiler)
[spoil]
How did you guys read what T'challa and eden did in Necropolis
The first time I read it, I read it as T'challa needing eden to access "the dead"
The second time I read it, I read it as Eden offered the portal for the Dead Legion to get from Necropolis to the Golden City. ie... T'chalal used his standing as KOTD to call them forth but Eden teleported them to the "woods" if they were needed.
Second option is more... palatable for me. Curious to how othesrs read that scene
and did the words mean anything? Seems weird to have a close up on them if they meant nothing [/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Vibranium Weave;2620999]But Spider-Man never really wanted to be a hero. He only did it out of a sense of responsibility. Coates has made BP Imho to look irresponsible by him allowing the monarch to fall by the wayside and not be a strong advocate for all the good it has done for Wakanda. This whole I am a scientist therefore I want to be a super hero is weak. He could have gone with I have a responsibility to my kingdom so I will use my resources and skills to protect it and the world. How many times has Peter quit being spiderman due to the responsibility. Why would T'Challah get shot at to learn something he could just go to the library and pick up a book for SMH.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that analysis. Parker became SM by accident and guilt. Tchalla spent his life training for the opportunity to become BP.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2621033]Re: Eden and (spoiler)
[spoil]
How did you guys read what T'challa and eden did in Necropolis
The first time I read it, I read it as T'challa needing eden to access "the dead"
The second time I read it, I read it as Eden offered the portal for the Dead Legion to get from Necropolis to the Golden City. ie... T'chalal used his standing as KOTD to call them forth but Eden teleported them to the "woods" if they were needed.
Second option is more... palatable for me. Curious to how othesrs read that scene
and did the words mean anything? Seems weird to have a close up on them if they meant nothing [/spoil][/QUOTE]
[spoil] The words were each BPs names, I think. I could be off on that one, of course.[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Vibranium Weave;2620999]But Spider-Man never really wanted to be a hero. He only did it out of a sense of responsibility. Coates has made BP Imho to look irresponsible by him allowing the monarch to fall by the wayside and not be a strong advocate for all the good it has done for Wakanda. This whole I am a scientist therefore I want to be a super hero is weak. He could have gone with I have a responsibility to my kingdom so I will use my resources and skills to protect it and the world. How many times has Peter quit being spiderman due to the responsibility. Why would T'Challah get shot at to learn something he could just go to the library and pick up a book for SMH.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that it entirely makes sense or that its a great or even a good idea. I'm just mentioning what I think is the direction Coates is headed.
I would do it differently than Coates if I was the writer, but I'm not.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2620981]The underlined is perfectly fine. Ultimately, I got lucky.
Coates could've used some other good idea towards the end of the issue and I easily could've been like "meh" like I've done numerous times before with this run.
Instead he happened to use an idea that greatly catered to my sensibilities as a BP fan. I'm really big on T'Challa and his supporting cast working together seemingly as a unit to achieve the various objectives. Hence why Sturm Und Drang and Deadliest of the Species are my two favorite BP stories.
So when
[spoil] the appearances towards the end occured[/spoil]
I had a "yea!" moment, instead of a "meh" moment. Pure luck on that one.[/QUOTE]
[B]I respect that, My issues however, Is that the entirety of this story , T'challa needed help for EVERYTHING. Like up until maybe issue 5 or 6 he wasn't even driving the plot, everyone else did that. and so when in the end his Feats are shared 5 ways, its not a good thing, especially when he really needed some good on panel showings. It felt too split up Which was obviously Coates Goal. I mean its not like we didn't see "No One Man" show up nearly every issue. [spoil]So it makes sense why the Big win was split 5 ways but the biggest thing is that Tetu and T'Challa didn't even fight barely. they met once, T'challa lost, and then in the End it was underwhelming he wasn't a real threat. If Akili could run up on him and knock him on his ass, then T'challa should of been knocked his ass out in issue 3. At the very least if Tetu and Zenzi got captured and then broke out in issue 4 with a display of awesome power it would of atleast made things interesting. I could rewrite this entire series with small changes here and there and it would be a million times better then what we actually got. [/spoil][/B]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2621033]Re: Eden and (spoiler)
[spoil]
How did you guys read what T'challa and eden did in Necropolis
The first time I read it, I read it as T'challa needing eden to access "the dead"
The second time I read it, I read it as Eden offered the portal for the Dead Legion to get from Necropolis to the Golden City. ie... T'chalal used his standing as KOTD to call them forth but Eden teleported them to the "woods" if they were needed.
Second option is more... palatable for me. Curious to how othesrs read that scene
and did the words mean anything? Seems weird to have a close up on them if they meant nothing [/spoil][/QUOTE]
[spoil] I read it as Eden opened the gate because Tchalla couldn't. Then there was an off panel conversation and they agreed to help.[/spoil]
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This is Coates's Tchalla: I can do nothing my own. All my training and intelligence amount to nothing without someone to babysit me or someone elses inventions to steal. No One Man.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2621093]This is Coates's Tchalla: I can do nothing my own. All my training and intelligence amount to nothing without someone to babysit me or someone elses inventions to steal. No One Man.[/QUOTE]
Not to defend Coates' run (which I am not a fan of ) or anything (I haven't met him but he's probably a nice guy to be around), but I felt Hudlin's run had the same issue with BP having so much help. the difference between the two is that Hudlin BP was not shown as incompetent.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2621093]This is Coates's Tchalla: I can do nothing my own. All my training and intelligence amount to nothing without someone to babysit me or someone elses inventions to steal. No One Man.[/QUOTE]
I *think* is is Coates' way of world building. Giving different character something different to do. #11 was simply a culmination of what he was building.
- Shuri does some action stuff and narrates
- T'challa does some action stuff, does his spoiler stuff, leads the battle as king
- Hadari (sp?) does his Taku stuff
- Akili leads the HZ and seems to be a rather elite soldier
- Chang talks
- Eden teleports (they should have just invented a new Wakanda with superpowers who could teleport around Wakanda instead of using Eden honestly)
- bomber guy comes full circle... from traitor, to informant, to soldier
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[QUOTE=Vibranium Weave;2621113]Not to defend Coates' run (which I am not a fan of ) or anything (I haven't met him but he's probably a nice guy to be around), but I felt Hudlin's run had the same issue with BP having so much help. the difference between the two is that Hudlin BP was not shown as incompetent.[/QUOTE]
I can agree is part of that. His run was filled with guest appearances. The main difference is that BP was running the show. Everyone took direction from him because it is his comic. lol
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[QUOTE=Vibranium Weave;2621113]Not to defend Coates' run (which I am not a fan of ) or anything (I haven't met him but he's probably a nice guy to be around), but I felt Hudlin's run had the same issue with BP having so much help. the difference between the two is that Hudlin BP was not shown as incompetent.[/QUOTE]
[B]Eh. Not really. T'Challa in Hudlin's run did the lion's share of things. What story in particular are you referring to? Because other then Storm (which they were married in hudlin's run so it would make sense that they were shown together alot) t'challa was doing most things solo and the help he received wasn't as overarching as what Coates is displaying [/B]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2621131]I *think* is is Coates' way of world building. Giving different character something different to do. #11 was simply a culmination of what he was building.
- Shuri does some action stuff and narrates
- T'challa does some action stuff, does his spoiler stuff, leads the battle as king
- Hadari (sp?) does his Taku stuff
- Akili leads the HZ and seems to be a rather elite soldier
- Chang talks
- Eden teleports (they should have just invented a new Wakanda with superpowers who could teleport around Wakanda instead of using Eden honestly)
- bomber guy comes full circle... from traitor, to informant, to soldier[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he had 10 issues to introduce various elements and this was the culmination of all of that (except oddly the MA who did very little despite arguably having the biggest build up at least at the start). T'Challa brought all or most of these elements to the table, and they're essentially executing his design.
But solo comics usually don't work that way, so perhaps that can be jarring. In say an Avengers book it would be a given that they all pitch in to help. But in a solo book it's pretty much the norm that the title character would do 90% of the heavy lifting.
But the theme of the book is NO ONE MAN. So it's somewhat fitting that he's not doing 90% of the work, and the rest are instead pitching in to help out.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2621173][B]Eh. Not really. T'Challa in Hudlin's run did the lion's share of things. What story in particular are you referring to? Because other then Storm (which they were married in hudlin's run so it would make sense that they were shown together alot) t'challa was doing most things solo and the help he received wasn't as overarching as what Coates is displaying [/B][/QUOTE]
Just off the top of my head, you can argue calling in Monica to help deal with Killmonger was probably overkill.
Not that I personally am against any sort of guest spot by Monica... but just playing devil's advocate. Granted Killmonger has a pretty good track record against T'Challa, but really Monica is very much out of Erics league.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2621093]This is Coates's Tchalla: I can do nothing my own. All my training and intelligence amount to nothing without someone to babysit me or someone elses inventions to steal. No One Man.[/QUOTE]
[B]Its how it felt. all of his qualities were divided between everyone. and [spoil] T'Challa vs Tetu was Weak as FUUUUUCK. Oh and Guess what? coates made T'Challa a liar AGAIN in his own solo making empty threats about Killing Zenzi. I mean come on, he makes empty threats in events, guest appearances, AND in his own damn solo with characters created from his own solo that could be put down without people losing sleep..[/spoil] [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2621188]Just off the top of my head, you can argue calling in Monica to help deal with Killmonger was probably overkill.
Not that I personally am against any sort of guest spot by Monica... but just playing devil's advocate. Granted Killmonger has a pretty good track record against T'Challa, but really Monica is very much out of Erics league.[/QUOTE]
[B]And she was captured and ultimately while yes she killed him, T'challa was the one actually fighting him and was angry she interfered Coates T'Challa would likely be akin to the movie Troy when Orlando bloom's character is pathetically crawling away from the king and pleading for his brother to save him in which hector steps in and kills the king.[/B]