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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2542205]It's a perfect storm of bad, really.
1) Here's a cool idea for a new power!
2) I need to show it off.
3) But I don't have a lot of action, so I'd better use it when I do show fights. The other stuff can stay unused.
4) Damn, I can't use it here, and I haven't shown any other abilities. I guess he'll just have to lose.[/QUOTE]
That's why I have mixed feelings about this power. It inhernetly is a cool power conceptually, and it does make sense given the nature of vibranium.
But IMO it hurts how the character is written because it replaces skill with tech, and that's just the wrong direction to take with a character like him.
I think ideall it should only be in a special suit, like his thrice blessed armor or whatever. Having it in standard gear actually takes away from the character. And I don't like the idea of him just NOT using the ability when it's there. If it's not used there should be a reason that it's not used... like it's not on his standard suit or something.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542217]That's why I have mixed feelings about this power. It inhernetly is a cool power conceptually, and it does make sense given the nature of vibranium.
But IMO it hurts how the character is written because it replaces skill with tech, and that's just the wrong direction to take with a character like him.
I think ideall it should only be in a special suit, like his thrice blessed armor or whatever. Having it in standard gear actually takes away from the character. And I don't like the idea of him just NOT using the ability when it's there. If it's not used there should be a reason that it's not used... like it's not on his standard suit or something.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of a T-shirt I saw, many years ago:
"When all you have is a hammer. everything looks like a nail." :D
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2542164]There are two main problems with the Force Push:
1) It's essentially reactive. It REQUIRES T'Challa to absorb damage before he can use it. There doesn't even seem to be a long storage time (else why not charge the batteries ahead of time, just in case?). It's usually used immediately.
2) Ever since it was introduced, T'Challa barely uses anything else in his own book, even in situations where some of his old tricks would make perfect sense (like using his claws against Tetu's vines). He's become a one-trick (one-and-a-half if you count the soul tracking, another Coates creation) pony.[/QUOTE]
I do agree with the second one. I would like to see more variety.
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Not that I have been reading Coates drech, but using that argument for force push, why doesn't T'Challa use his powered armor all the time? Or all of his other tech? Or just send Wakame an agents to do his superheroing? Same reason we don't want to see Daredevil use a tazer for all of his encounters. Thanos just blowing up a planet instead of going down himself to beat the **** out of people. I find T'Challa more entertaining showing off h2h first and foremost with some tech sprinkled into the mix. If it really came down to it, the vibranium weave would be the last piece of his gear I would leave him with. All the other stuff can come and go as far as I'm concerned.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542107]If T'Challa is unassisted by any additional tech (like the growing boxing gloves) he really shouldn't be able to knock Namor away with a single punch.
But that aside, I agree... T'Challa doesn't need the force push against the big dude in the scarf. That doesn't mean however it doesn't make sense for him to use it if it's the easiest most efficient means of dealing with an opponent. Again, that's why it's there in theory.[/QUOTE]
[B] Tchalla knocked Namor away unassisted atleast 10ft with a single punch in Priest's run m he doesn't need the energy gloves at all. If he wanted he should of easily been able to punch a hole through Goon slam Gary.. the force push depicted in Coates run is extremely passive and requires him to take damage to deal it back.. instead of using his own force or the vibrations of his own or his opponents to force push. So tell me how getting slammed and punched iOS more efficient then just punching the guy with lightning speed he is known for?[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542166]If you ever feel like I'm trolling feel free to ignore me or report me to the mods.[B] There are ways of dealing with trolls within the confines of the rules of the board. [/B]But if you genuinely feel that I'm trolling your or disrespecting your time, out of respect I won't respond to your threads anymore. Because whether or not you believe it, it's never been my intent.[/QUOTE]
Informing you (as nicely as possible) that I believe you are trolling is well within the confines of the rules of this board... since it cordially addresses an issue in the discussion and offers two feasible conclusions. Plus, reporting you for covert trolling? lmao nah, I'll just let you know to your face and we can leave it like that as adults.
But to that point, I actually do largely ignore you. So I do like your own solution at the end there, thanks.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2542264][B] Tchalla knocked Namor away unassisted atleast 10ft with a single punch in Priest's run m he doesn't need the energy gloves at all. If he wanted he should of easily been able to punch a hole through Goon slam Gary.. the force push depicted in Coates run is extremely passive and requires him to take damage to deal it back.. instead of using his own force or the vibrations of his own or his opponents to force push. So tell me how getting slammed and punched iOS more efficient then just punching the guy with lightning speed he is known for?[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, I know he did it in Priests fun. I just don't buy that he really could. Namor should be 100 times stronger than T'Challa, so trading blows really isn't believable. But it's comics.... these things happens.
And the force push is more effective than a punch or kick because it's pure kinetic force... it can't be block or perried like a punch or a kick at least by conventional means. And because it's the suit generating the force rather than T'Challa himself it requires less effort and skill. If T'Challa is tired or disoriented or hurt the precision, speed, and force of his blow may be compromised. Force pushes don't have to worry about that.
If the defensive aspects of the suit perform well enough Aunt May in a force push vibranium suit has a good chance of defeating a random minion. That's how more efficient it potentially is than a kick or a punch.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542217]That's why I have mixed feelings about this power. It inhernetly is a cool power conceptually, and it does make sense given the nature of vibranium.
But IMO it hurts how the character is written because it replaces skill with tech, and that's just the wrong direction to take with a character like him.
I think ideall it should only be in a special suit, like his thrice blessed armor or whatever. Having it in standard gear actually takes away from the character. And I don't like the idea of him just NOT using the ability when it's there. If it's not used there should be a reason that it's not used... like it's not on his standard suit or something.[/QUOTE]
[B]I should be standard gear Because it makes sense. Claws, daggers/energy guantlets Kimoyo, Microweave and force push used only to knock away larger crowds of goons, then using it to amplify his kicks or punches against class 100+ opponents. The other function should include using the force push to jump higher and fall high distances without getting hurt (basically the energy damp boots) and use it to make a Even faster dash then he already can do, but its only used supplementary to everything else. That's how I would use it[/B]
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Goon slam tchalla is jarring because we literally jyst came off a run where tchalla treated henchman like putties
Swans goons, wm drones, thanoa goons, black dwarf goons... he ripped through them.
Goons exist to show off powers... but unfortunately tchalla needs to get hit to show off his new toy which is problematic
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2542330]Goon slam tchalla is jarring because we literally jyst came off a run where tchalla treated henchman like putties
Swans goons, wm drones, thanoa goons, black dwarf goons... he ripped through them.
Goons exist to show off powers... but unfortunately tchalla needs to get hit to show off his new toy which is problematic[/QUOTE]
It's very similar to Wolverine's healing factor. Logan takes hit after hit to show just how much damage soaak he has.
Still, you can credibly argue defensive powers like that effect your fighting style. It's been pointed out several times that Logan will take a hit to deliver one even though he's theoretically capable of dodging blows like a lot of his peers. Same in theory could be said about T'Challa. If you can absorb and redirct kinetic force, in theory you may not have to block or dodge. If you're not getting hit by say Thors hammer or anything like that, it MIGHT even be smarter to take the hit.
Course, again that's part of the reason why I don't like the power.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542289]Oh, I know he did it in Priests fun. I just don't buy that he really could. Namor should be 100 times stronger than T'Challa, so trading blows really isn't believable. But it's comics.... these things happens.
And the force push is more effective than a punch or kick because it's pure kinetic force... it can't be block or perried like a punch or a kick at least by conventional means. And because it's the suit generating the force rather than T'Challa himself it requires less effort and skill. If T'Challa is tired or disoriented or hurt the precision, speed, and force of his blow may be compromised. Force pushes don't have to worry about that.
If the defensive aspects of the suit perform well enough Aunt May in a force push vibranium suit has a good chance of defeating a random minion. That's how more efficient it potentially is than a kick or a punch.[/QUOTE]
[B]Why? There is literally nothing that backs up the claim he couldn't knock Namor away. He had tussled with Namor, Ironman, hulk, Thanos silver surfer, black dwarf, swan super skrulls... You get the point. He had taken Ok not class 100++ opponents.
And what I said is the force push should be used in conjunction with punches and kicks to amplify them to be stronger. While also using his own vibration's and his opponents to offensively use the force push. Because even if he missed the kick or punch the force push would still hit because it shoots out [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2542404][B]Why? There is literally nothing that backs up the claim he couldn't knock Namor away. He had tussled with Namor, Ironman, hulk, Thanos silver surfer, black dwarf, swan super skrulls... You get the point. He had taken Ok not class 100++ opponents.
And what I said is the force push should be used in conjunction with punches and kicks to amplify them to be stronger. While also using his own vibration's and his opponents to offensively use the force push. Because even if he missed the kick or punch the force push would still hit because it shoots out [/B][/QUOTE]
The why is simple ... again Namur should be like 100 times stronger than him. T'Chalks can fight much stronger people, but not like that.
And as force the force push, the problem with it is that with that ability he doesn't even necessarily need to punch or kick. Or dodge or block. In most instances it's an improvement over hand to hand combat, but that's not necessarily desirable for a martial artist.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2542434]The why is simple ... again Namur should be like 100 times stronger than him. T'Chalks can fight much stronger people, but not like that.[/QUOTE]
Strength isn't everything. Speed, accuracy, and leverage can defeat a stronger foe foe. The right hit, at the right time, and all the muscles in the world won't save you.
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For my own amusement, I pulled the Priest scene out of my collection. Namor jumps/flies at Panther (the art is unclear) in a fit of rage over a perceived act of war. T'Challa clocks him in the jaw while he's still in midair. Hence, there was no way for Namor to USE his strength against the blow.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2542440]Strength isn't everything. Speed, accuracy, and leverage can defeat a stronger foe foe. The right hit, at the right time, and all the muscles in the world won't save you.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't even an issue of T'Challa defeating Namor... he punched Namor and he went flying. Again, I just don't buy it. I DO believe that T'Challa can beat Namor... but he's not going to make headway with a basic punch.
To me that's not an accurate bench mark for how he handles class 100 beings. Nor do I agree that him being able to smack Namor across the room means he can punch holes in non class 100 people To me at least, I just interpreted it as a case of a writer (or artist) overdoing it a bit. It's comics... these things happen.