Where is this idea that they are an army coming from? Most I've seen on a page is 21. Which is an acceptable amount of each village had one representative.
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Where is this idea that they are an army coming from? Most I've seen on a page is 21. Which is an acceptable amount of each village had one representative.
[QUOTE=Cville;3806854]Where is this idea that they are an army coming from? Most I've seen on a page is 21. Which is an acceptable amount of each village had one representative.[/QUOTE]
I think the problem is that with anything more than say half a dozen or so, it breaks the conversation of ninjistus rule of fiction. One Dora, like one ninja, might be a deadly threat because that one ninja is an actual character. But a couple dozen ninjas, like a couple dozen Doras, they become nameless faceless canon fodder rather than actual characters.
[QUOTE=XPac;3806870]I think the problem is that with anything more than say half a dozen or so, it breaks the conversation of ninjistus rule of fiction. One Dora, like one ninja, might be a deadly threat because that one ninja is an actual character. But a couple dozen ninjas, like a couple dozen Doras, they become nameless faceless canon fodder rather than actual characters.[/QUOTE]
Why is that a problem? They're supporting characters. Hudlin got through his run with two and I don't even think he gave them names. Lol
[QUOTE=Cville;3806884]Why is that a problem? They're supporting characters. Hudlin got through his run with two and I don't even think he gave them names. Lol[/QUOTE]
The problem being when they are more than 2, they're no longer supporting characters. They're just red shirts. Not that there's anything wrong with having red shirts... T'Challa needs that too. But there's value in having Doras who are actual characters. Coates sort of split the difference between Priests and Maeberrys models by making some of them actual characters, while still having plenty of red shirts in the background.
[QUOTE=XPac;3806925]The problem being when they are more than 2, they're no longer supporting characters. They're just red shirts. Not that there's anything wrong with having red shirts... T'Challa needs that too. But there's value in having Doras who are actual characters. Coates sort of split the difference between Priests and Maeberrys models by making some of them actual characters, while still having plenty of red shirts in the background.[/QUOTE]
So Danai Gurira was less impactful because there was more than her and one other?
To add to the fact that a nameless red shirt Dora got her throat cut and the audience still gasped.
[QUOTE=Cville;3806943]So Danai Gurira was less impactful because there was more than her and one other?
To add to the fact that a nameless red shirt Dora got her throat cut and the audience still gasped.[/QUOTE]
And the reason you kill off a nameless red Shirt Dora is because Okoye has actual value and shouldn't be killed off. Killng off Okoye is a whole other level of messed up. Again, that's why you want at least SOME of them being real characters.
[QUOTE=XPac;3806958]And the reason you kill off a nameless red Shirt Dora is because Okoye has actual value and shouldn't be killed off. Killng off Okoye is a whole other level of messed up. Again, that's why you want at least SOME of them being real characters.[/QUOTE]
So then it doesn't really matter how many there are as long as SOME get development? Then what is the problem with there being more than two?
[QUOTE=Cville;3806961]So then it doesn't really matter how many there are as long as SOME get development? Then what is the problem with there being more than two?[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm saying … Coates sort of bridged Priests and Hickmans models by giving us some that were real characters. But making some of them actual characters again, it fixed the problem.
[QUOTE=XPac;3806965]That's what I'm saying … Coates sort of bridged Priests and Hickmans models by giving us some that were real characters. But making some of them actual characters again, it fixed the problem.[/QUOTE]
Was it a problem? I wasn't on forums during the Hudlin to Hickman years. Were people upset that the Dora were not getting character development?
These questions go out to anyone who was posting during that period.
[QUOTE=Cville;3806985]Was it a problem? I wasn't on forums during the Hudlin to Hickman years. Were people upset that the Dora were not getting character development?
These questions go out to anyone who was posting during that period.[/QUOTE]
Upset is too strong a word... but I do think some didn't necessarily agree with eliminateing Okoye from the story (and a lot of the other Priest supporting cast members).
Expanding this from just Doras, I think one of the problems with the BP mythos is that writers tend not to build off of the world building the previous BP writer left. A lot of very cool supporting characters and villains went into limbo when Priest left the book. Maeberry build an entire supporting cast for Shuri when she became Black Panther... all of which vanished into thin air once Maeberry left. And the Hunt created an entire school of metas for Wakanda... which again, all but vansished.
The bottom line is you want a strong deep supporting cast. Red shirts are fine... but you need real characters you can tell actual stories about.
Hudlin had to go to great lengths to ensure Shuri wasn't going anywhere. It arguably even came at T'CHalla's short term expense... but to his credit me managed to get her to stick.
I honestly don't recall anyone caring about the Dora much at all in those days. The books were about T'Challa (and later, Shuri), not random supporting cast members.
[QUOTE=XPac;3807017]Upset is too strong a word... but I do think some didn't necessarily agree with eliminateing Okoye from the story (and a lot of the other Priest supporting cast members).
Expanding this from just Doras, I think one of the problems with the BP mythos is that writers tend not to build off of the world building the previous BP writer left. A lot of very cool supporting characters and villains went into limbo when Priest left the book. Maeberry build an entire supporting cast for Shuri when she became Black Panther... all of which vanished into thin air once Maeberry left. And the Hunt created an entire school of metas for Wakanda... which again, all but vansished.
The bottom line is you want a strong deep supporting cast. Red shirts are fine... but you need real characters you can tell actual stories about.
Hudlin had to go to great lengths to ensure Shuri wasn't going anywhere. It arguably even came at T'CHalla's short term expense... but to his credit me managed to get her to stick.[/QUOTE]
In general, unless it's Superman or Batman, supporting cast members rarely last past a given writer's run. Even A-list characters like Wonder Woman or Captain America tend to get their status quo ignored when it suits a new team.
[QUOTE=XPac;3806797]Treehouse rape is considered acceptable in the story, because the story clearly conveyed that it was wrong. Hence the rapist getting murdered on panel for their actions. Point being it's okay to show bad stuff happening in fiction, provided the story makes it clear that it's bad stuff that actually needs to be stopped.[/QUOTE]
You forgot the "getting advice from brutal dictators" thing.
Was that "acceptable" too?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3807030]You forgot the "getting advice from brutal dictators" thing.
Was that "acceptable" too?[/QUOTE]
I gave up waiting for an explanation why slipping into savage anarchy is acceptable in Wakanda, but literally every other culture in Marvel that gets smashed in an Event™ recovers without random warlords carving up the countryside into their own little fiefdoms.
[QUOTE=Cville;3806985]Was it a problem? I wasn't on forums during the Hudlin to Hickman years. Were people upset that the Dora were not getting character development?
These questions go out to anyone who was posting during that period.[/QUOTE]
Trust me.
No one was upset about anything.