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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3715986]Read the scan I posted again. The one where it's stated ON PANEL without equivocation or inference, that the oh-so-cosmic Adversary cannot affect iron.
In fact, I'll make it easy on you:
[url]https://i.imgur.com/9JV5pfa.png[/url]
Of course, it's only Forge saying it... obviously he doesn't know ANYTHING about the character…
By using intelligence, proper preparation, and Wakandan science. Perhaps he should have just prayed to that girl he met when he was younger, instead....[/QUOTE]
iron has a negating affect against magic. I never said otherwise. I simply stated he woul get out. and in the cable and xforce story, adversary was in Forges consciousness, and he was able to somehow switch both adversary and forge within his consciousness. all dr. nemesis did was lock him away. if you notice not once in that storyline did he even revert back to his true demonic form. all in all, it was a temporary solution that was bound to be broken, which he obviously did as he was able to get out. how then would tchalla had done a similar thing in this battle? for tchalla to have attempted to trap him in his consciousness adversary would first need to inhabit his body which he closely didnt need to in the coates storyline.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3715990][B]He bear Mephisto with Wakandan technology and prep to shackle him first to be able to physically Deck him in the face and rip his heart out, then he tricks Mephisto and allows him into the anscestrial realm of Bps and overloaded Mephisto with the souls of previous BPs, he had Mephisto begging him to stop.. this was all with his own resources and no outside heroes help. Plus Tchallas whole Mo is defeating people outside his weight class. He has defeated cosmic beings on multiple occasions.
And he took the tiger gods power and claimed it as his own. I'm pretty sure he could then use that power to fight adversary and win. Also your forgetting the scan BoG posted where adversary was DEFEATED and locked in a Cold steel box... So tell me again how could he just easily teleport out when that clearly held him before and he couldn't escape? Or are we going to just keep ignoring what happened in the past and just regulate it to this was the only way T'Challa could win?[/B][/QUOTE]
again, adversary would just get out. as Roma pointed out when they first encountered him life needs chaos. so even though BP and the heroes were able to lock him away again he will find a way out. that is just adversary mo.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/YIr2JwVG916Tzsvg0RjFtFHET-A0J5mB62M8NHxzXq_hSvUwB9oG6iK-BQ6gCIeEvC_mbxrYqmNm=s1600[/img]
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3716002]The Adversary tried to possess Nemesis (who, I remind you, has no psychic powers whatsoever). Nemesis trapped him within his own mind by sheer willpower.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/S3QukAE.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7F09DPS.jpg[/img]
This is the exact same story I just posted a scan from.[/QUOTE]
assumong tchalla has the willpower of dr. nemesis how would tchalla have done this without being possessed by adversary?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3716021][B]Can you point me to the issue and scans where Storm, Thunderball, And Eden received their Wakandan citizenship please? Because they're all outsiders[/B][/QUOTE]
Bast probably doesn't have official citizenship either, but I think gods pretty much get a pass on that.
If not I doubt Storm will have have too much trouble getting dual citizenship. Being a former queen and current goddess dating the nation's ruler likely helps to grease the wheels.
Fair point about Eden and Thunderball though.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3716031]iron has a negating affect against magic. I never said otherwise. I simply stated he woul get out. and in the cable and xforce story, adversary was in Forges consciousness, and he was able to somehow switch both adversary and forge within his consciousness. all dr. nemesis did was lock him away. if you notice not once in that storyline did he even revert back to his true demonic form. all in all, it was a temporary solution that was bound to be broken, which he obviously did as he was able to get out. how then would tchalla had done a similar thing in this battle? for tchalla to have attempted to trap him in his consciousness adversary would first need to inhabit his body which he closely didnt need to in the coate storyline.[/quote]
Ah. So you are playing the "this was not the Adversary at full power" card? Then it's damn lucky for Forge that he decided to go easy on him for no particular reason.
In that case, I suggest that he was also slumming it in Coates' story, which is why Ororo was able to take him out with only a temporary power boost.
Prove me wrong. Show me ON PANEL where it says that the Adversary was weaker in the X-Force story than he was in BP.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
[quote]how would tchalla hsve done this without being possessed by adversary?[/QUOTE]
Well, the SECOND time T'Challa defeated Mephisto, he outthought him. But I suppose Adversary is more powerful than Mephisto (as long as no paperclips are around).
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[QUOTE=XPac;3716039]Bast probably doesn't have official citizenship either, but I think gods pretty much get a pass on that.
If not I doubt Storm will have have too much trouble getting dual citizenship. Being a former queen and current goddess dating the nation's ruler likely helps to grease the wheels.[/QUOTE]
You forgot "and part of a team that decimated the country". But hey, she's a goddess now... in one issue, that no other book has acknowledged. Naturally everyone will immediately switch to worshipping her... changing religion is SO easy.....
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3715956]You've literally articulated one of the primary reasons why I've chosen not to engage in debating or discussing wholesale hijack of the BP Mythos and subversion of same to use as a vehicle to push an X-friendly agenda through T'Challa's solo book much to the detriment of the titular character and his homeland.
[B]
Debating this subject with individuals who are not overly familiar with the BP Mythos is pointless especially when every post they drop, exposes thinly veiled disdain for.the BP mythos disguised as "genuinely framed critique or observation.[/B]
Coates will not write this book forever so it goes without saying that there's really no need to shed tears over his maliciously patented milquetoast take on T'Challa's in particular and Wakanda in general.
This too will pass.[/QUOTE]
So much Truth! The bold even more so.
Fingers crossed the next writer will ignore more of Coats run or do his/her best to course correct the Black Panther Mythos.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3716058]You forgot "and part of a team that decimated the country". But hey, she's a goddess now... in one issue, that no other book has acknowledged. Naturally everyone will immediately switch to worshipping her... changing religion is SO easy.....[/QUOTE]
That's a part of the reason why Storm being involved in the story likely made sense to T'Challa. It helps mend the relationship.
T'Challa teamed up with Namor after he decimated with Wakanda. Heck, he was teamed with Namor while he decimated Wakanda. And it was clearly an issue for T'Challa, but people got over it. Same was true for Storm.
It's not like wasn't good incentive to back her. Regardless of how one might feel about Storm, she's a better alternative to the Adversary.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3716052]Ah. So you are playing the "this was not the Adversary at full power" card? Then it's damn lucky for Forge that he decided to go easy on him for no particular reason.
In that case, I suggest that he was also slumming it in Coates' story, which is why Ororo was able to take him out with only a temporary power boost.
Prove me wrong. Show me ON PANEL where it says that the Adversary was weaker in the X-Force story than he was in BP.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Well, the SECOND time T'Challa defeated Mephisto, he outthought him. But I suppose Adversary is more powerful than Mephisto (as long as no paperclips are around).[/QUOTE]
where did I say he wasnt a full power. I stated that their efforts in the cable and xforce battle didnt even revert him back to his true form. forge even tells boom boom he is playing possum when she thought he was defeated:
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZVIhMKZAJDo/VkVGY3Y49DI/AAAAAAAAQkI/e2DH0ttIV14/s1600-Ic42/011.jpg[/img]
there you go. he never reverted back to his form. when colossus hurt him when the originally fought he reverted thereafter back to his true form. when ororo fought him bp the same thing happened when she blasted him with divine power. none of that happened in cable and xforce:
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tXUY5LAt4j8/Uym-cgi-TqI/AAAAAAAAUIY/TfVpB389MWE/s1600/shedding.jpg[/img]
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q6a7Szgkh4U/Wtdh6G6qMoI/AAAAAAAAIgU/VY9fovHm-CENoOu46NKCS3dh_0mDKFl3ACHMYCw/s1600/RCO021.jpg[/img]
this demonstrates that there attacks in cable book were not effectual against him.
I dont know how powerful mephisto is to adversary but the way in which they both can be defeated doesn't seem to be the same based upon what I have heard described here.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3716077]That's a part of the reason why Storm being involved in the story likely made sense to T'Challa. It helps mend the relationship.
T'Challa teamed up with Namor after he decimated with Wakanda. Heck, he was teamed with Namor while he decimated Wakanda. And it was clearly an issue for T'Challa, but people got over it. Same was true for Storm.
It's not like wasn't good incentive to back her. Regardless of how one might feel about Storm, she's a better alternative to the Adversary.[/QUOTE]
"Sorry your homes were destroyed and relatives killed. But hey, if you pray to my ex, everything will be better!"
Maybe that's why there was a revolt in issue #1. Someone heard T'Challa saying "Maybe we were too hasty in annulling the marriage. I know! I'll wait until something happens to turn Bast away from us again, and turn her into a replacement! Everyone will love her again, and I can get some!"
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3716031]iron has a negating affect against magic. I never said otherwise. I simply stated he woul get out. and in the cable and xforce story, adversary was in Forges consciousness, and he was able to somehow switch both adversary and forge within his consciousness. all dr. nemesis did was lock him away. if you notice not once in that storyline did he even revert back to his true demonic form. all in all, it was a temporary solution that was bound to be broken, which he obviously did as he was able to get out. how then would tchalla had done a similar thing in this battle? for tchalla to have attempted to trap him in his consciousness adversary would first need to inhabit his body which he closely didnt need to in the coates storyline.
again, adversary would just get out. as Roma pointed out when they first encountered him life needs chaos. so even though BP and the heroes were able to lock him away again he will find a way out. that is just adversary mo.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/YIr2JwVG916Tzsvg0RjFtFHET-A0J5mB62M8NHxzXq_hSvUwB9oG6iK-BQ6gCIeEvC_mbxrYqmNm=s1600[/img]
assumong tchalla has the willpower of dr. nemesis how would tchalla have done this without being possessed by adversary?[/QUOTE]
[B]Are we seriously trying to downplay Tchallas will power?? Seriously?
No clearly adversary would not just get out because he was trapped in a metal box and was unable to escape because another story on panel show's him Trapped. And all they would need is to trap in him the box and throw said box back through the portal, boom adversary defeated without praying to a outsider and using his own resources and power. [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3715978]To T'Challa, I think he did protect Wakanda without help from outsiders, because to T'Challa Storm isn't an outside.
I think part of the reason he handled thing the way he did was to prove that to Storm and Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
Thunderball
Eden
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3716089]"Sorry your homes were destroyed and relatives killed. But hey, if you pray to my ex, everything will be better!"
Maybe that's why there was a revolt in issue #1. Someone heard T'Challa saying "Maybe we were too hasty in annulling the marriage. I know! I'll wait until something happens to turn Bast away from us again, and turn her into a replacement! Everyone will love her again, and I can get some!"[/QUOTE]
Basically yeah. It's not like Storm was responsible for any of that. She didn't destroy anyone's home ... but she did protect plenty of them.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3716039]Bast probably doesn't have official citizenship either, but I think gods pretty much get a pass on that.
If not I doubt Storm will have have too much trouble getting dual citizenship. Being a former queen and current goddess dating the nation's ruler likely helps to grease the wheels.
Fair point about Eden and Thunderball though.[/QUOTE]
[B]Bast is their god so I'm pretty sure that's not a thing. Again show me where she got her citizenship. Because she is still an outsider. She doesn't reside in Wakanda or associate with Wakandan affair's regularly. [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3716091][B]Are we seriously trying to downplay Tchallas will power?? Seriously?
No clearly adversary would not just get out because he was trapped in a metal box and was unable to escape because another story on panel show's him Trapped. And all they would need is to trap in him the box and throw said box back through the portal, boom adversary defeated without praying to a outsider and using his own resources and power. [/B][/QUOTE]
the portal he was trapped in the first time didnt hold him, why would a metal box do it? and not downplaying but posing the question. how would tchalla willpower do him any benefit here when adversary was not in consciousness?
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3716083]where did I say he wasnt a full power. I stated that their efforts in the cable and xforce battle didnt even revert him back to his true form. [/QUOTE]
And that matters why? Tell me where it is written that "the Adversary can be defeated by mere mortals if he doesn't take on his true form". And explain to me why his appearance in CABLE & X-FORCE wasn't it (given that he had, you know, glowing eyes and grayish-blue skin)
And the reason he was "playing possum" was to trick Boom-Boom into destroying enough of the outer walls so he could escape. Because, again, HE CAN'T AFFECT STEEL. Something, I might add, most cosmic menaces have zero problems with.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3716102]the portal he was trapped in the first time didnt hold him, why would a metal box do it? and not downplaying but posing the question. how would tchalla willpower do him any benefit here when adversary was not in consciousness?[/QUOTE]
Was the portal made of metal? A vibranium/steel box is sounding better and better. And less complicated that building Storms ego and convincing the country to prey at the same time.