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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;86536]I don't think it's a matter of introducing Westernized thought processes nor should they be introduced at all because there isn't a need for them. It's more a matter open communication between Wakanda and the outside world.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zuri;86533]this Westernized thought process sounds very wrong... very Eurocentric for lack of a better word.... Cant an African think outside the box while thinking like an African? I think if the story goes that western education and thinking has some profound effect on bettering Wakanda, then it would be well on the to becoming on of these colonialist type stories where primitives are uplifted by western education and that would be a bad place for it to go and would go counter to the Afrocentic theme of Wakanda that had been built up by Priest and Hudlin.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on both counts.
However, I'm not particularly suprised at the fact that some would rather see Wakanda dependent on Western influence/intervention as a prerequisite for gaining relevance within the 616 MU.
And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.
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[QUOTE=Zuri;86533]this Westernized thought process sounds very wrong... very Eurocentric for lack of a better word.... Cant an African think outside the box while thinking like an African? I think if the story goes that western education and thinking has some profound effect on bettering Wakanda, then it would be well on the to becoming on of these colonialist type stories where primitives are uplifted by western education and that would be a bad place for it to go and would go counter to the Afrocentic theme of Wakanda that had been built up by Priest and Hudlin.[/QUOTE]
I stand corrected...
Eurocentric would be a better word. I used this as an example. What I'm trying to say is that I want the 10,000 year unfettered advanced culture. And now a day Africans are the ones that think outside the box using the things that have around them.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;86987]Agreed on both counts.
However, I'm not particularly suprised at the fact that some would rather see Wakanda dependent on Western influence/intervention as a prerequisite for gaining relevance within the 616 MU.
And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.[/QUOTE]
YES would be the answer.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;86536]I don't think it's a matter of introducing Westernized thought processes nor should they be introduced at all because there isn't a need for them. It's more a matter open communication between Wakanda and the outside world.[/QUOTE]
This would work. I had used that as an example just to try to think of a reason as to why he would go abroad. But open communication would work alot better. But even with that. The question would be why?
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If a writer were really BOSS he or she would study African linguistics so well that they invented a Wakandan language as if other languages came from Wakanda first!
Like the Navi in Avatar or the various languages used in Star Wars... If you have a 10,000 year head start everyone else would be playing catch up to you not the other way around!
What is missing from the world building of Wakanda is that extra special something you see added to the likes of Lord of The Rings or World of Warcraft!
My wife speaks about 8 different dialects from the South African region although I think she might be stretching the truth on that... Lol!
But when she speaks to family back home over the phone she switches up the flow depending upon if she is talking to one of her brothers, her sisters or her mom!
I hear words from Afrikaans to Sotho to English mangled up there between laughs and strange glances at me from time to time... When I learn to translate that I'm gonna check that ish she aint slick! ;)
The Black Panther as a character should demand that you have at least some basic understandings of Africa beyond the basic Egyptian coffee table books!
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[QUOTE=The_Panther;87015]This would work. I had used that as an example just to try to think of a reason as to why he would go abroad. But open communication would work alot better. But even with that. The question would be why?[/QUOTE]
Know your enemies. In order for T'Challa or Wakanda to assess potential allies or enemies, he/they have to know how these other nations think. It's why he joined the Avengers. Here is a group of powerful individuals declaring themselves Earth's protectors. Who are they, what gives them the right and do they have the power to do so.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;87111]Know your enemies. In order for T'Challa or Wakanda to assess potential allies or enemies, he/they have to know how these other nations think. It's why he joined the Avengers. Here is a group of powerful individuals declaring themselves Earth's protectors. Who are they, what gives them the right and do they have the power to do so.[/QUOTE]
This is what I'm talking about.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;86987]Agreed on both counts.
However, I'm not particularly suprised at the fact that some would rather see Wakanda dependent on Western influence/intervention as a prerequisite for gaining relevance within the 616 MU.
And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.[/QUOTE]
No
Wakanda makes T'challa who he is would there be a Spiderman without the spider bite?
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[QUOTE=The_Panther;87170]This is what I'm talking about.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and it doesn't have to mean that Wakanda is totally open to the outside world. Wakanda offers limited trade, has set up embassies, has treaties with other nations, does business and banking around the world and still maintains it's secrecy. It's not so much about isolationism as it is about protectionism.
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No, T'Challa would not be T'Challa without Wakanda. But, once upon a time, Wakanda wouldn't have been the Wakanda we know without T'Challa. Now, it ain't no thang. Marvel could blast T'Challa to atoms and there would still be Shuri and Wakanda. I miss the fact that T'Challa used to "make" Wakanda. That is all I am saying. I do enjoy the direction things have taken, especially with Priest's representation of a Wakanda pre 10,000 years. And I like KoD. A lot, actually. But how about if Spidey was all of a sudden the recipient of 10,000 years of fortune? Or Hulk? 10,000 years of Waynes batting around various gothic metropolis?
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[QUOTE=The_Panther;87005]YES would be the answer.[/QUOTE]
Please elaborate.
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[QUOTE=The_Panther;87005]YES would be the answer.[/QUOTE]
I'd have to disagree. The Black Panther isn't much without the Wakanda backstory. Yeah they could have a cat guy run around with the same skills/powers , but Wakanda is what makes him. The nation is what is most important to him. The reason why he goes so hard is for the country to still stand. I think that in the MCU it would be even more relevant due to the "Age of Miracles". It wasn't a big deal when it was just men with gun powder outclassed by their (Wakanda) technology. There's super soldiers, alien invaders, demi-gods, and all kind of madness appearing in less than a 5-10 year span. This is the perfect time for an isolated nation to come out to play and not just Wakanda , but all the wacky nations they have.
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Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;88203]Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He would be a totally different character without Wakanda. We have seen BP in Hell's Kitchen, the book was great but we know that wasn't the best T'challa and in that the Kingpin of Wakanda was probably the best arc.
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Do you guys get the feeling that T'Challa's totally going to end up taking Steve's side in New Avengers?
This last issue, when he's talking to his ancestors he echos his "I'll do what I must" reply in response to thier urging to kill any opposition to Wakanda's well being (the same words he used when he betrayed Steve).
I think Panther's totally primed to be the voice of sanity for the Illuminati here, coming full circle and taking up the mantle of higher morality (a post left vacant with Steves expulsion).
What do you guys think?
