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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2595151]Yeah, that makes sense except for take pesky detail that Coates is a black man. ��[/QUOTE]
And an ardent feminist, who emasculated a proud & heroic African (NOT African-American) character, possibly in order to assuage his own guilt at being born male.
And all because there were elements of the character that didn't "make sense" to him. :P
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[QUOTE=XPac;2595385]That aside, the notion of helping Wakanda seems like a sort of double edged sword for some reason. When heroes help Wakanda it's bad because it somehow makes them look weak for needing outside help. But when heroes don't help Wakanda it's bad because they're not helping Wakanda when they need help. It seems to be a somewhat tricky issue to navigate for some reason.[/QUOTE]
Name ONE Superhero who has heroes introduced in earlier movies help save the day in his FIRST MOVIE. I'll wait. :)
Seriously, you are thinking too much in terms of the franchise here, and forgetting to let the movie, and hence the character, stand on its own.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2595391]Name ONE Superhero who has heroes introduced in earlier movies help save the day in his FIRST MOVIE. I'll wait. :)
Seriously, you are thinking too much in terms of the franchise here, and forgetting to let the movie, and hence the character, stand on its own.[/QUOTE]
There hasnt' been. But then again there hasnt' been a character whose story actually started prior to his first movie. Half the cinematic universe could be chilling in Wakanda at the start of the movie. There's potential for both Spider-Man and Black Panther to be handled differently because they're in a unique position of having debuted before their first movie.
But certainly no one wants Black Panther overshadowed in his own movie. Regardless of how much or how little other heroes may or may not appear in the movie, I don't see that as being a problem. I'm sure Coogler and Marvel will do T'Challa justice, just as I'm sure Spidey will be just fine in his movie regardless of Stark being there. Whether Stark helps at all or not, I'm sure I'll still be a Spider-Man movie.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2595397]There hasnt' been. But then again there hasnt' been a character whose story actually started prior to his first movie. [/QUOTE]
Ah... here's where we fall apart.
T'Challa's "story" has almost NOTHING to do with CIVIL WAR, except for the fact that his father was assassinated. And he resolved THAT by capturing Zemo, the true killer.
Bucky ISN'T THE STORY. The Avengers AREN'T THE STORY. Killmonger, Klaw, and whoever else shows up are.
(I'd think making Tony too big a part of Spider-Man would also be a mistake. But this isn't the Spider-Man appreciation thread, ;) )
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We arent even technically sure the secret avengers are in Wakanda.
We know bucky is. And we know cap has been there. But it wasnt hinted or anything that tchalla is housing the rest.
If bucky or cap or whatever are in the movie, it has ti be because tchalla is using them as a weapon. Not bc he NEED them.
For instance, killmongers grand plan is to spread tchalla and his doras too thin, so he can have a (tired) tchalla all to himself. He has mbaku raising hell near the mound/outer regions, killmonger us coming for the golden city, and klaw is in [insert city] with his people doing whatever klaw does lol.
Tchalla drops a line about his resources being considerably vast.... tge doras are fighting off mbaku, and tgen u see falcon and bucky decimating klaw.
Boom bamm cameo, no saving the day, ect ect.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2595400]Ah... here's where we fall apart.
T'Challa's "story" has almost NOTHING to do with CIVIL WAR, except for the fact that his father was assassinated. And he resolved THAT by capturing Zemo, the true killer.
Bucky ISN'T THE STORY. The Avengers AREN'T THE STORY. Killmonger, Klaw, and whoever else shows up are.
(I'd think making Tony too big a part of Spider-Man would also be a mistake. But this isn't the Spider-Man appreciation thread, ;) )[/QUOTE]
Luke I said earlier, if we get other heroes showing up it doesn't necessarily mean they become THE story. Falcon showed up in Ant-Man and he wasn't the story. Captain America was still the star of the show even though he shared the screen with a dozen other heroes. But perhaps the real test will be Stark showing up in Spider-Man. If he end up hijacking the movie, then that could be an issue. But honestly I think marvel has handled these sort if issues just fine so IF WE get some guest appearances I think it will be fine.
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We are going to get two examples back to back with himecoming and ragnorak with this new "team up movie" philosophy
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2595388]And an ardent feminist, who emasculated a proud & heroic African (NOT African-American) character, possibly in order to assuage his own guilt at being born male.
And all because there were elements of the character that didn't "make sense" to him. :P[/QUOTE]
Lets be honest the guy has a issue with black men. I doubt he would have written his favorite white heroes this way no matter what he or anyone else says. I wonder if its to impress his female buddies in the black feminist spectrum or it's something deep rooted.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2595490]We are going to get two examples back to back with himecoming and ragnorak with this new "team up movie" philosophy[/QUOTE]
As more and more franchises pop up I think we'll get more guest spots. Not everyone is going to be able to get their own movies since they only do 3 a year. If they can't fit another Iron Man movie in there, stick him in Captain America and Spider-Man.
The trick is to not feel forced. I thought Falcons guest spot was fun, but it almost felt shoe horned in. Starks guest spot in Spider-Man conversely I think will feel far more organic since that relationship was already established.
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On a different note I watched the Infinity War first look and I hope T'Challa has a big part in the 4th one. It would be cool if he is partly responsible for the defeat of Thanos. Most people wouldn't expect it tbh. If they want T'Challa and Carol to be the leaders of the new school then they are going to have to be significant in the grand Phase 3 finale.
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[QUOTE=Lord Morph;2595507]On a different note I watched the Infinity War first look and I hope T'Challa has a big part in the 4th one. It would be cool if he is partly responsible for the defeat of Thanos. Most people wouldn't expect it tbh. If they want T'Challa and Carol to be the leaders of the new school then they are going to have to be significant in the grand Phase 3 finale.[/QUOTE]
I think there will be a multiple front battle. Too many heroes not to be.
The Big 3 plus maybe Hulk will come together after being disassembled to take down Thanos. But I do think a passing of the torch will likely occur for the next stage, and that will require them to come off looking really good.
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[QUOTE=Lord Morph;2595498]Lets be honest the guy has a issue with black men. I doubt he would have written his favorite white heroes this way no matter what he or anyone else says. I wonder if its to impress his female buddies in the black feminist spectrum or it's something deep rooted.[/QUOTE]
I dunno...the more I think about it, the more I think if he were on Iron Man or Batman, we'd be getting mopey pants Tony and Bruce. It's not like Coates writing would suddenly become more action packed because the race of the heroes were different.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2595502]As more and more franchises pop up I think we'll get more guest spots. Not everyone is going to be able to get their own movies since they only do 3 a year. If they can't fit another Iron Man movie in there, stick him in Captain America and Spider-Man.
The trick is to not feel forced. I thought Falcons guest spot was fun, but it almost felt shoe horned in. Starks guest spot in Spider-Man conversely I think will feel far more organic since that relationship was already established.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was totally shoe horned in. It added nothing to the plot or Lang's character. It was basically there to be an infomercial for the Cap sequel.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2595533]I dunno...the more I think about it, the more I think if he were on Iron Man or Batman, we'd be getting mopey pants Tony and Bruce. It's not like Coates writing would suddenly become more action packed because the race of the heroes were different.[/QUOTE]
He flat out admits he's not good at action, so I imagine it'll be an issue regardless of what book he's on. Though he says he's working on it so hopefully we'll get some improvement in Crew.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2595540]I thought it was totally shoe horned in. It added nothing to the plot or Lang's character. It was basically there to be an infomercial for the Cap sequel.[/QUOTE]
Well, that and a cool fight sequence before the climax :p.