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[QUOTE=Cville;2914194]Plus Thor is not in charge most of the time. When Asgard came back after Civil War he gave the throne to Baldar(sp).[/QUOTE]
The reason Thor isn't in charge (when Odin isn't around) is frankly because he doesn't want to be. Unlike T'Challa I don't think Thor necessarily makes that much of a secret. I think everyone in Asgard pretty much knows that they're PROBABLY going to need someone else to run things in Asgard if Odin isn't in charge because Thor wouldn't want to give up his protection of Midgard.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2914216]T'Challa was a guy that moved halfway around the world to become and Avenger (and a school teacher) in New York. He was the sitting ruler of a nation that lived in New York. That never made any sense to me at least... why not live in Wakanda and commute to NY? That I think was one of the earlier indicators that the character perhaps wanted to escape some of his duties to be king if given the chance.
Him leaving Wakanda after Doomwar to become guardian of hells kitchen when Wakanda was going through an economic crisis of sorts was another indicator of his flight reflex, though to be fair he wasn't ruler of Wakanda at the time.
I frankly think it's a common thing in comic book fiction for rulers of a warrior nation (like Thor or T'Challa, and I'll wager Wonder Woman would fall into this category if she was ever stuck having to rule the Amazons) to want the adventure a super hero life entails. That's not entirely to say they will shirt their responsibilities to their people, but I think there's a desire be heroes (which sort of works since at heart these are super hero comics rather than CSPAN).[/QUOTE]
It's definitely a trope now that I think about it lol. And that's why nearly all of them experience rebellions or become ostracized at some point. My thing is that T'Challa should rise above his own personal desires because it falls in line with his belief in tradition and keeps him closer to home. Doesn't mean he can't take opportunities to help save the world or apply himself in other ways (such as in Ultimates 2 where he's funding and tech support), but my preference is that T'Challa maintains a strong connection to Wakanda. And even if he wanted freedom from the kingship personally, I see no reason why Shuri couldn't become queen and rule in his place. Here we have someone of approximate skill who could protect the country while he's gone and could be a central figure that keeps Wakanda somewhat relevant if T'Challa's not there. I want BP to be connected to the broader MU but feel he needs to develop the little corner he has right now.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914344]It's definitely a trope now that I think about it lol. And that's why nearly all of them experience rebellions or become ostracized at some point. My thing is that T'Challa should rise above his own personal desires because it falls in line with his belief in tradition and keeps him closer to home. Doesn't mean he can't take opportunities to help save the world or apply himself in other ways (such as in Ultimates 2 where he's funding and tech support), but my preference is that T'Challa maintains a strong connection to Wakanda. And even if he wanted freedom from the kingship personally, I see no reason why Shuri couldn't become queen and rule in his place. Here we have someone of approximate skill who could protect the country while he's gone and could be a central figure that keeps Wakanda somewhat relevant if T'Challa's not there. I want BP to be connected to the broader MU but feel he needs to develop the little corner he has right now.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a point of the character that he does rise above his personal desires. Regardless of whether it's what he personally wants, he's there doing the job.
Shuri being ruler back in the day was a sort of nice compromise in that it freed T'Challa up to be a super hero a little more. But it was sort of inevitable that he would get the throne back. Still, trying to balance being a hero and king at this ppint I think is just a part of his narrative. The fact that there's a degree of personal sacrifice involved just makes him feel more human.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914187]I honestly would've thought T'Challa had the mental fortitude to suck it up and accept his responsibilities. He's always been a character who held tradition close to him, so even though he wanted freedom, I expected him to perform his duties faithfully and be proactive like he's always been. Thor is a free spirit by nature so him not sitting on the throne is acceptable, but T'Challa has always prioritized his people. He's tragic in that way which adds depth, and it works story wise because it keeps him close to Wakanda and his supporting cast. The only thing is that it makes him isolated from the rest of the universe like say Namor, who's always in Atlantis.[/QUOTE]
[B]He does, And he wants to be king, This has been shown over and over and over again on panel that T'Challa Wants to be King of Wakanda. Coates just came in with this whole "I dont want to be king" To help fuel his No one man Campaign because its a weak one at best and Coates had to create some contrived drama to try and make his narrative work. Everywhere else int he MU as well as in precoates T'Challa made it clear he loved his people, and he wanted to be King [/B]
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914187]I honestly would've thought T'Challa had the mental fortitude to suck it up and accept his responsibilities. He's always been a character who held tradition close to him, so even though he wanted freedom, I expected him to perform his duties faithfully and be proactive like he's always been. Thor is a free spirit by nature so him not sitting on the throne is acceptable, but T'Challa has always prioritized his people. He's tragic in that way which adds depth, and it works story wise because it keeps him close to Wakanda and his supporting cast. The only thing is that it makes him isolated from the rest of the universe like say Namor, who's always in Atlantis.[/QUOTE]
Namor also left Atlantis every chance he got and half the time it was to proposition women who were already in committed relationships.
Namor is a trip.
There's also a perception issue here.
People can take it for granted that characters like Aquaman, Thor and Namor can get fed up with ruling their people for various reasons.
Even the 90's version of Queen Hypolita when given a chance to take over the Wonder Woman gig from her daughter(long story), had to near literally be dragged back to her throne on Paradise Island kicking and screaming because she grew to love being a Superhero so much( to the point that she was on 2 different super teams, JLA and JSA!).
But if T'Challa wants out of running Wakanda he is turning his back on Africans which is problematic for some. Even tho he has plenty of in story
reasons to want out, given the Wakandans in canon penchant for scapegoating and conspiracy as well as the usual heroic motivations.
But if he does it, its different (not for me, mind you).
People are mad at Coates for having T'Challa even framing the thought of wanting out let along him actually pulling a Thor.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2914359]I think it's a point of the character that he does rise above his personal desires. Regardless of whether it's what he personally wants, he's there doing the job.
Shuri being ruler back in the day was a sort of nice compromise in that it freed T'Challa up to be a super hero a little more. But it was sort of inevitable that he would get the throne back. Still, trying to balance being a hero and king at this ppint I think is just a part of his narrative. The fact that there's a degree of personal sacrifice involved just makes him feel more human.[/QUOTE]
And that's a human element that should be kept. His sacrifice should be a part of his narrative and something kept consistent. Not that it matters much anyway. T'Challa is on his way to A-list or high B-list status with his movie coming and is already a decently respected character. I wouldn't be surprised if pretty soon they stick him on some Avengers team and give him a solo title where he's not in Wakanda most of the time. It's only a matter of time before he "outgrows" Wakanda and is truly integrated into the US-based superhero community. At least that's what I'm feeling...
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2914401]Namor also left Atlantis every chance he got and half the time it was to proposition women who were already in committed relationships.
Namor is a trip.
There's also a perception issue here.
People can take it for granted that characters like Aquaman, Thor and Namor can get fed up with ruling their people for various reasons.
Even the 90's version of Queen Hypolita when given a chance to take over the Wonder Woman gig from her daughter(long story), had to near literally be dragged back to her throne on Paradise Island kicking and screaming because she grew to love being a Superhero so much( to the point that she was on 2 different super teams, JLA and JSA!).
But if T'Challa wants out of running Wakanda he is turning his back on Africans which is problematic for some. Even tho he has plenty of in story
reasons to want out, given the Wakandans in canon penchant for scapegoating and conspiracy as well as the usual heroic motivations.
But if he does it, its different (not for me, mind you).
People are mad at Coates for having T'Challa even framing the thought of wanting out let along him actually pulling a Thor.[/QUOTE]
For me, it's more about consistency and execution. A core element of T'Challa's character is how the weight of the crown affects him, because his personal sacrifice is what makes him such a human character. I'm not suggesting he can't imagine himself doing something else, but the core of his struggle is the fact that he can't do anything else. And while I'm not devastated he's no longer king, because I trust Coates to still tell a good story, I can't help but feel he pulled the rug under Shuri who was relevant and capable enough to be queen. And I'm inclined to say that more warrior king characters like Aquaman should be in their kingdoms more because it makes no sense to see them everywhere but the place that their supposed to be. In fact, Aquaman got dethroned in his own book recently exactly because of that.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914462]For me, it's more about consistency and execution. A core element of T'Challa's character is how the weight of the crown affects him, because his personal sacrifice is what makes him such a human character. I'm not suggesting he can't imagine himself doing something else, but the core of his struggle is the fact that he can't do anything else. And while I'm not devastated he's no longer king, because I trust Coates to still tell a good story, I can't help but feel he pulled the rug under Shuri who was relevant and capable enough to be queen. And I'm inclined to say that more warrior king characters like Aquaman should be in their kingdoms more because it makes no sense to see them everywhere but the place that their supposed to be. In fact, Aquaman got dethroned in his own book recently exactly because of that.[/QUOTE]
Aquaman can't go 5 minutes without getting dethroned. To long time readers, it mush have passed the point of hilarity.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914462]For me, it's more about consistency and execution. A core element of T'Challa's character is how the weight of the crown affects him, because his personal sacrifice is what makes him such a human character. I'm not suggesting he can't imagine himself doing something else, but the core of his struggle is the fact that he can't do anything else. And while I'm not devastated he's no longer king, because I trust Coates to still tell a good story, I can't help but feel he pulled the rug under Shuri who was relevant and capable enough to be queen. And I'm inclined to say that more warrior king characters like Aquaman should be in their kingdoms more because it makes no sense to see them everywhere but the place that their supposed to be. In fact, Aquaman got dethroned in his own book recently exactly because of that.[/QUOTE]
[B]T'Challa IS still King. the only difference is that there is supposed to be a republic set up. But He is still king and has his power.
I don't trust Coates to write a good story has been bad from Day 1. He has consistently shown a weak "Humanized" that is nothing like the in continuity T'challa or the MCU verison that draws from the comics. Coates is writing a female wish fulfillment series.. Which is fine.. But not when the Series is Black Panther. he is emasculating him [/B]
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2914462]For me, it's more about consistency and execution. A core element of T'Challa's character is how the weight of the crown affects him, because his personal sacrifice is what makes him such a human character. I'm not suggesting he can't imagine himself doing something else, but the core of his struggle is the fact that he can't do anything else. And while I'm not devastated he's no longer king, because I trust Coates to still tell a good story, I can't help but feel he pulled the rug under Shuri who was relevant and capable enough to be queen. And I'm inclined to say that more warrior king characters like Aquaman should be in their kingdoms more because it makes no sense to see them everywhere but the place that their supposed to be. In fact, Aquaman got dethroned in his own book recently exactly because of that.[/QUOTE]
Hick man already sort of pulled the rug under Shuri when he essentially had her commit suicide to give T'Challa back his authority in Time Runs Out.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2913656]It's entirely possible. But I've seen them shine as a couple. I will never not love them together. He's the man she deserves. All the things he could bring out of her? Ugh...
I just hate when people don't want T'Challa and Ororo to shine together. It irks me. I always wanted stories of BP using her and all her power as his dues ex machina. Looks like I might be getting my wish! Fingers crossed.[/QUOTE]
Great post B!! And I hate it as well but as you mentioned we may have a lot to look forward to next issue!!
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2913697]Well for Storm's sake, hopefully Coates gives her a cool feat next issue especially since the X-Offices handling of her has been insulting. Now if only Coates can give T'Challa a cool feat considering that this is his own book.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I can't be mad at this and I would feel the same way actually. I hope Coates changes this and allows Tchalla to shine in his own book.
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2913835]Its simple: Marvel needs a marketplace answer to Wonder Woman. An A list solo non-legacy-female hero.
So Marvel needs their own solo A list non-legacy-female hero.
Characters created to be members of teams will not work (I know some will want to argue this). And She Hulk and Spider Woman are legacies so they won't work either.
So it's Captain Marvel almost by default (yeah she's also technically a legacy too, but Captain Marvel/Mar-Vell's been dead since the Carter Administration and virtually nobody cares).
So she gets a book and will keep getting books as she fits a merch/marketing need.
As long as the Captain Marvel film does well and the character can push merch, it won't matter how crappy the sales on her floppy comic are.
For years SuperGirl's comic sold badly but was a merch cash cow.
Honestly, that is EXACTLY how Wonder Woman was too before the 80's and the George Preez revamp.[/QUOTE]
Captain Marvel is boring and it really is not sticking; I don't think she comes across as authentic. Marvel has their Wonder Woman with Storm but seeing that they don't own this property they don't give her the amount of attention and relevant stories that center around her as she deserves.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2913697]Well for Storm's sake, hopefully Coates gives her a cool feat next issue especially since the X-Offices handling of her has been insulting. Now if only Coates can give T'Challa a cool feat considering that this is his own book.[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm hoping for. Of course I'd like T'Challa to use his scientific prowess and talk her through something epic. That way they both shine together. And are shown moving as one. Perfect scene for me. Wash, rinse, repeat. That's how their joint title should go. Lol
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2913892]Folks and the writer want Storm to shine at the expense of T'Challa, that is some high quality shallowness and continues the trend of why folks don't like Storm or her fans[/QUOTE]
What was your real point in quoting me? You clearly aren't interested in really understanding what I want and value in this pairing. So what was your point, really? I'd like a serious answer. If it's that serious and you hate that I'm pushing for them, please block me. Because as long as Black Panther -verse remains the only place I can get a well written Storm who is actively demonstrating that she loves and adores T'Challa, I'm going to continue to post here.
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[B]Am i the only one who finds it concerning that one has to Hope Coates will give T'Challa shine in his own book? The fact that its something that has to be asked for and hoped for says enough about where Hie priorities and loyalty lies.. and its not on T'Challa's side[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2914744][B]Am i the only one who finds it concerning that one has to Hope Coates will give T'Challa shine in his own book? The fact that its something that has to be asked for and hoped for says enough about where Hie priorities and loyalty lies.. and its not on T'Challa's side[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly. I just really want somebody to publicly call Coates out on his crap. Our best bet is if he jumps ship and decides to write Captain America instead, but I'm not holding my breath.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2914744][B]Am i the only one who finds it concerning that one has to Hope Coates will give T'Challa shine in his own book? The fact that its something that has to be asked for and hoped for says enough about where Hie priorities and loyalty lies.. and its not on T'Challa's side[/B][/QUOTE]
I find it concerning as well. We saw good stuff and issue 14 and I think that gave me false hope. The beginning of 15 wasn't terrible, it was an everyone but Tchalla issue though. I wouldn't care about the Storm stuff as much if T had a couple of girlfriends in between.