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[QUOTE=Rumble;3178088][IMG]https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/c0.59.1080.1080/22500006_1905454576440827_8202674356040499200_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCUfkZeXkAAwG2h.jpg[/IMG]
#CreedmongerClique
#AllthegirlslikehandsomeErik
(pause)[/QUOTE]
Man that is wicked cool! I hope the artist draws T'Challa too
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3178883][B] Honestly im not sure why people here are so set on mcu Nakia becoming malice. It's not as though doing so made her a Major Villain or memorable, it was one arc and then she disappeared after that. There wasn't any further Character development, she didn't come back later on. So to be so set on her becoming malice because... She has the same name as comic book Nakia, means nothing. With this logic Florence Kasumba's Ayo should turn out to be a lesbian and get with the leader of the DM.. except it's not going to happen, she is Ayo in name only, just like lupita is Nakia in name only. The fact that she and T'Challa are on/off lovers already shows her different than the comics.
Turning her into malice doesn't do anything at all [/B][/QUOTE]
It started because some people were against T'Challa dating other women even though Storm was with other men. They liked him being a sap.
Then it was the narrative that BP had a fetish for foreign women and didn't like Wakanda like that.
So now that he is a James Bond 007 type with a 007 Wakandan lover, they want to goalpost move with "oh well she gon turn bad anyway!"
But we're like
No no no no
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/196175.gif[/IMG]
That wasn't the arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgument! [B]Stay on topic![/B]
muahahahaha
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[QUOTE=Majesty;3178888]Actually I gotta take down that argument and I'm sticking to the comics idea in this one.
Storm actually has been written in a character arc that grew her as a character, as well as T'Challa. Yeah there was bad writing to break them up, but in the comics now, they are still acknowledging what happened, but instead of just acting like it didn't happen, the guy who writes both Storm and Black Panther used it instead as an opportunity to grow both characters, as I broke down here.
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?3630-Storm-and-Black-Panther-Appreciation-Eternal-Love&p=3171369&viewfull=1#post3171369[/url]
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?3630-Storm-and-Black-Panther-Appreciation-Eternal-Love&p=3171376&viewfull=1#post3171376[/url]
So for Storm there is no need to "move goal posts" because she actually legitimately has gotten an arc that made her a better person and have a greater and deeper understanding of T'Challa now as they pursue things once more, AND it also made T'Challa a better person in his understanding of storm and acceptance, before her re-awakening by the end of the arc and growth as a character.
Nakia however hasn't gotten such a story, and we can go all day about "Well she could." but the fact of the matter is, the problems with her comicbook counterpart are still there, whereas Storm and T'Challa's issues have not only been dealt with, but used as an opportunity to grow both characters, their understanding of one another, and bring them closer together on more than one level. It's been written, it's canon.
Nakia hasn't gotten any such development. So if we're talking the comics here, Storm's portrayal(in the bad writing) seems to have been fixed and used to grow her character as well as T'Challa's. While Nakia (comic book wise)'s problems, remain relevant, whereas Storm's no longer do.
Just wanted to throw that out there, because I always see people saying "Well why is it different for Storm and not Nakia!?!?!" because Storm actually got a character arc that brought it full circle and brought her and T'Challa closer. Nakia thus far has gotten no such arc, and thus it's not relevant to the argument outside of wishful thinking, which means any relationship between the two in the comic now would be just as toxic for the same reasons. Whereas the arguments people would have made about Storm a few years ago, no longer are, especially considering the arc the two of them just went through together. It's not moving the goal posts, it's where both characters actually stand canonically in the comics.
No offense :) I just wanted to make that point about that perspective on that angle.[/QUOTE]
Nah, Storm F'd up and the selectiveness of when it's an indictment on the writers and when it's an indictment on the characters (to feed self serving agendas) is just laughable. No offense :), as well :)
Basically comes down to Storm has had more opportunities (to F up and make up for it) than Nakia and so that makes it ok for some people. lol But understandably not for others.
The marriage ended in countless Wakandans being drowned and ensuing nasty things said and done... so if a current writer wants to try and scrub it clean, good for him.
And if a director (or future writer) wants to take a newer character like Nakia that, like with much of BP's cast, has often been neglected once a writer leaves, and scrub her clean as well (or make a new rendition), good for him. We'll embrace it too.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3179230]It started because some people were against T'Challa dating other women even though Storm was with other men. They liked him being a sap.
Then it was the narrative that BP had a fetish for foreign women and didn't like Wakanda like that.
So now that he is a James Bond 007 type with a 007 Wakandan lover, they want to goalpost move with "oh well she gon turn bad anyway!"
But we're like
No no no no
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/196175.gif[/IMG]
That wasn't the arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgument! [B]Stay on topic![/B]
muahahahaha[/QUOTE]
I doubt the majority of people want her to become Malice just so she isn't with T'Challa. Particularly when you can get both, as I pointed out here, James Bondness and all ;)
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178315&viewfull=1#post3178315[/url]
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178374&viewfull=1#post3178374[/url]
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178451&viewfull=1#post3178451[/url]
There's many benefits to Nakia turning into Malice, AND the story can be done with her and T'Challa still having relationship time early on, AND given some of the changes to her character, her reasons for becoming Malice become a more "dignified" reason and representation of her character as the why. As I broke down in those three posts.
I can't speak for everyone however, but to me, Nakia becoming Malice has many benefits that don't stem from "keep Nakia and T'Challa apart!!!".
The only place I care about them keeping Nakia and T'Challa apart in terms of a relationship is the comics, for the reasons I stated here.
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178888&viewfull=1#post3178888[/url]
Alright, Carry on ^_^
[img]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AgileImperfectEft-max-1mb.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Rumble;3179254]Nah, Storm F'd up and the selectiveness of when it's an indictment on the writers and when it's an indictment on the characters (to feed self serving agendas) is just laughable. No offense =), as well =) [/quote]
It was, it was essentially done to break them up so they could try to push for Storm/Wolverine and because they had no intention to actually use T'Challa as a central character. This is common knowledge. It's also evidenced by the fact that for many years after that his only character trait was tied to how he felt for her. I didn't care about that personally because his sexual exploits didn't define how I saw him as a character and being dedicated to one woman doesn't make him less of a character, just as going around and sleeping with countless ones doesn't make him more of a character. He could have banged Sue Storm but decided not to because he respected her marriage. James Bond wouldn't have given a [expletive] lol ^_^
However as I said you could argue that Storm and T'Challa were written very inconsistently in order to break them up. Whereas you can't blame the same kind of thing on Nakia, because that was the nature of her characters creation from the get go. It wasn't like Nakia was written and established as one way, and then suddenly she just became a freaky stalker 'senpai notice me' character for no reason. It was always the nature of her character. We can agree or disagree, but you can't say Nakia was written 'out of character', because it was her character. You may not agree with it because you have your own vision of how you'd make her character, but that doesn't really factor in.
Nakia has been written consistently from her motivation and creation over the years. People disagree with it cause they want to see her change, but it would literally be a [B]change[/B].
Yet when it comes to T'Challa and Storm, both of them had very distinguished personalities, but were written out of character in those established personalities for a break up to happen, because it wouldn't have if their personalities weren't changed for the sake of it. Nakia's personality wasn't changed in the comics, she was and is who we think she is. In the movie that will most likely not be the case, but in the comics, it is.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3179254]
Basically comes down to Storm has had more opportunities (to F up and make up for it) than Nakia and so that makes it ok for some people. lol But understandably not for others.[/quote]
It's okay for some people because it's called a comic book sticking with continuation for once and using it to grow a character as opposed to resetting them back into the same place over and over and over again. If Storm grows as a character(which she has) as well as T'Challa to a place where they both have a greater understanding of each other, and because of that a better relationship, than there's no reason to be against it for 'moral' reasons people argued before. Though it's completely fine to be against it if [B]you just aren't a fan of the ship[/B]. But it can't be done with an argument based upon character traits that have been rectified or written to better advance/evolve the character into a better and more complete place. This has happened with Storm, and as anyone will admit, hasn't happened with Nakia. This is why their relationship(in the comics) is not one I could get behind. In the [B]movie[/B], I don't care, cause they interpret Nakia differently and from a MUCH MORE respectable place. In the comics, not so much, which is why she is deservedly not anywhere on the radar in the current ones.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3179254]
The marriage ended in countless Wakandans being drowned and ensuing nasty things said and done... [B]so if a current writer wants to try and scrub it clean, good for him. [/B][/quote]
That is what makes it relevant to the current canon and argument for those characters however. It's one of the reasons you have some people that want the same thing for Nakia, because then they'd have a legitimate reason to ship the couple in the comics without the toxic implications.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3179254]
And if a director (or future writer) wants to take a newer character like Nakia that, like with much of BP's cast, has often been neglected once a writer leaves, and scrub her clean as well (or make a new rendition), good for him. We'll embrace it too.[/QUOTE]
Of course!
Pretty much, but as I said prior, you can do [B]both[/B]. You can do all that with Nakia and even give her a relationship with T'Challa, and still have her become Malice, and it could lead to bigger/better things in the MCU as a whole as I explained here
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178374&viewfull=1#post3178374[/url]
[url]http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?193-Black-Panther-Appreciation-What-Giants-Do&p=3178451&viewfull=1#post3178451[/url]
Just my two cents =)
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;3178747]There’s always goal post moving when it comes to Storm, [B]it’s her secondary mutation[/B][/QUOTE]
Hahahaha
I just don't care for the flip flopping.
If Coogler ever has the chance to write Storm in the MCU, we're not going to shade throw and say "NOOoo! Now Wakanda is going to be flooded by the end of the trilogy! :("
That wouldn't be very nice.
I'm open-minded to Nakia, because the important underlining issue was allowing T'Challa to not act like a castrated lame any longer.. or as an insufferable one-woman-itis having simp, while that same one woman is sleeping with other men. Whether that's on her character or on her writers... lmao, i don't give a ****.
But we have the opposite of that T'Challa in 007 James Bond T'Chadwick
And giving him a 007 Wakandan lover is just icing on the cake. :)
We're bast blessed.
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[QUOTE=C_haos;3178935]Not dead set on her becoming Malice and not against it either. TChalla marrying one of the DM has strong story potential.
But turning her into Malice adds another female villain to the MCU which to date only has like one and a possible.[/QUOTE]
Valid points here sir.
There's a number of good angles they can go with and it's encouraging because Coogler seems to have good head on his shoulders and a great relationship with the main cast.
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[QUOTE=Ziggiyy;3178822]Why yes. Yes I am lol[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4gWvvtT.gif[/IMG]
ziggiyy we made it!
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3179282]Valid points here sir.
There's a number of good angles they can go with and it's encouraging because Coogler seems to have good head on his shoulders and a great relationship with the main cast.[/QUOTE]
I got a question I just pondered today. Only for example really but it was a question nonetheless.
If Malice and Killmonger hooked up... would they be the first black Supervillain power couple of relevance ever?
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[QUOTE=XPac;3177280]That sort of leads into the other problem with Klaw... he's potentially TOO easy for BP to beat. There are times he's beaten him with a relatively quick and easy one hit KO due to his vibranium weakness. THat's not to say there aren't a few other occasions where T'Challa really had to work at it... but it sort of makes it a bit tougher to make Klaw scary when T'Challa can in theory one hit KO him at any time as he's done on a few occasions in the past.
It's why on paper I don't feel Klaw and T'CHalla necessarily always match up well. It can be too hard or do easy depending on whether or not he happens to have vibranium around (which these days is pretty much always). I sometimes wish a different character ended up being T'CHallas arch nemesis. But either way, it just requires a writer to worl a little harder to make it work.[/QUOTE]
The solution is simple: do your best to avoid direct hits while in combat.
Use speed, block, henchmen, hit & run, use long range energy attacks, etc.
A fight is a fight.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3177612][B]Yeaaaaaaa... Except Priest already corrected this, by having Klaw Know that vibranium is his weakness and preparing for that, forcing T'Challa to anticipate his upgrades, makes for exciting and dynamic showdowns, I mean all it really takes is for a big upgrade to make it so that, while yes vibranium is Klaws natural kryptonite, its not always the one hit K.O. There can be a revamp story in which Klaw gains power (Maybe after being in hiding for so long to make himself stronger, or absorbing enough sound from the earth itself, or beyond that) that T'challa and Klaw throw down, T'Challa realizes that Klaw isn't as effected by Vibranium weapons as he was before, and falls back, while still giving them both good showings, then it comes to a bout of Klaw becoming an Avengers level threat that takes the avengers (or multiple avengers teams) to take down, with T'challa scoring the "Killing Blow" in the end.
It upgrades Klaw to a higher level threat, he can still come back and face T'Challa in his solo in a one on one bout, or he can be used as a big Avengers team threat. It simply requires writers to stop being lazy asses and See that Klaw is a near cosmic level being [/B][/QUOTE]
This post is winning.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;3179407]The solution is simple: do your best to avoid direct hits while in combat.
Use speed, block, henchmen, hit & run, use long range energy attacks, etc.
A fight is a fight.[/QUOTE]
Sure, it's doable. We've seen a few occasions where T'Challa really had to work to beat Klaw (as it should be IMO). But we've also had a few one hit KO's which somewhat waters him down. Still, I think a few good showings on Klaws part should really help and hopefully we're getting that in the upcoming BP book. It at least sounds (no pun intended) like he'll be a force to be reconned with from the sollicits. BUt sollicits can at times overdo things, so we'll see.
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Klaw's problem, I think is that while he was created in a story featuring Black Panther, Lee and Kirby obviously more intended for him to be a Fantastic Four villain, since he debuted in that series and ended up as a member of the Frightful Four. That's the thing. On paper, his powers aren't bad and he's menaced the FF a number of times. It's just that he's the worst possible fit for a solo Black Panther villain because it's basically like Superman fighting a guy in a Kryptonite body glove.
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[QUOTE=Holt;3179424]Klaw's problem, I think is that while he was created in a story featuring Black Panther, Lee and Kirby obviously more intended for him to be a Fantastic Four villain, since he debuted in that series and ended up as a member of the Frightful Four. That's the thing. On paper, his powers aren't bad and he's menaced the FF a number of times. It's just that he's the worst possible fit for a solo Black Panther villain because it's basically like Superman fighting a guy in a Kryptonite body glove.[/QUOTE]
Once you establish that Klaw murdered T'CHallas dad though, it basically solidifies him as a BP villain. But like I said, even though I'm not sure they're a good fit on paper with a bit of work a writer can make it work.
I do think on paper he feels more like an FF rogue though. He's colorful and over the top, which somewhat compliments the FF more than the darker grittiness that T'Challa rogues often have. Thati said, with some work Klaw could fit better. If he was played off more as this virtually unkillable boogy man responsible for T'Chaka's death that T'CHalla could never avenge rather than a typical villain in a somewhat clownish costume, I think you'd have something there.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3179230]It started because some people were against T'Challa dating other women even though Storm was with other men. They liked him being a sap.
Then it was the narrative that BP had a fetish for foreign women and didn't like Wakanda like that.
So now that he is a James Bond 007 type with a 007 Wakandan lover, they want to goalpost move with "oh well she gon turn bad anyway!"
But we're like
No no no no
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/196175.gif[/IMG]
That wasn't the arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgument! [B]Stay on topic![/B]
muahahahaha[/QUOTE]
[B] Really the thing is she doesn't need to be. If not they want to turns LI into a villain, don't know do it with the first Black lead super hero solo. People keep saying it will be interesting and I only see the negative imagery that goes along with it. Black Men and Black Women can't be in healthy relationships together, there has to be some type of Dysfunction.. no thank you[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3179568][B] Really the thing is she doesn't need to be. If not they want to turns LI into a villain, don't know do it with the first Black lead super hero solo. People keep saying it will be interesting and I only see the negative imagery that goes along with it. Black Men and Black Women can't be in healthy relationships together, there has to be some type of Dysfunction.. no thank you[/B][/QUOTE]
I keep saying that if they want a lover turned evil so badly they can easily rework Monica Lynne to be the MCU version of Malice. Plus ain’t nobody interested in seeing someone who gets kidnapped all the damn time. The last thing the BP franchise needs going forward is a black princess peach.