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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719422]I can see that, but it feels like a wasted concept for BP to just disregard.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]They should have taken it in another direction. With him combining magic and tech, it should have amounted more than just teleportation.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3719415]With peter I think you have to separate things
Spider-Man, the super hero, is about as mary sue as you can get without people calling him one. tech out of his ass, genius, spidey kung fu, wall crawling, precog, superhuman strength, speed, reflexes... come on lol.
Parker, the dude, not so much.
For other heroes, that duality doesn't exist because they don't have secret identities.
(I honestly don't even think "parker luck" is a thing anymore and has turned into more of a meme at this point but whatever)[/QUOTE]
Even as Spider-Man I wouldn't call him a mary sue. He struggles or fights evenly against people who realistically shouldn't last 5 seconds against him. He should be able too kill Kingpin with his pinky finger. ON any given day Peter will struggle against anyone with a black belt.
But that balances out against ridiculously high end shows against say Juggernaut or Firelord. He's stuggle with Vulture on TUesday and knock out a herald of Galactus on Thursday. He's sort of all over the place, but in the long run it balances out.
Even as far as tech goes he's faily conversavtive. Ben Riley had WAAY more gear with the impact webbing and the stingers and all that other stuff. Peter for the most part sticks with webbing and a spidey light on his belt. He could gear up way more if he really tried, but he usually doesn't.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719429]Even as Spider-Man I wouldn't call him a mary sue. He struggles or fights evenly against people who realistically shouldn't last 5 seconds against him. He should be able too kill Kingpin with his pinky finger. ON any given day Peter will struggle against anyone with a black belt.
But that balances out against ridiculously high end shows against say Juggernaut or Firelord. He's stuggle with Vulture on TUesday and knock out a herald of Galactus on Thursday. He's sort of all over the place, but in the long run it balances out.
Even as far as tech goes he's faily conversavtive. Ben Riley had WAAY more gear with the impact webbing and the stingers and all that other stuff. Peter for the most part sticks with webbing and a spidey light on his belt. He could gear up way more if he really tried, but he usually doesn't.[/QUOTE]
I mean, I'm not going to pretend I am a spidey expert but the few stories I read, I remember horizon lab and parker industry tech on a fairly frequent basis.
And, personally, I'm not calling SM a mary sue. But I'm not calling Panther one either.
(and spidey "struggles" against people he could kill because he won't kill to a ridiculous degree #superiorwasbetter lol)
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719429]Even as Spider-Man I wouldn't call him a mary sue. He struggles or fights evenly against people who realistically shouldn't last 5 seconds against him. [B]He should be able too kill Kingpin with his pinky finger.[/B] ON any given day Peter will struggle against anyone with a black belt.
But that balances out against ridiculously high end shows against say Juggernaut or Firelord. He's stuggle with Vulture on TUesday and knock out a herald of Galactus on Thursday. He's sort of all over the place, but in the long run it balances out.
Even as far as tech goes he's faily conversavtive. Ben Riley had WAAY more gear with the impact webbing and the stingers and all that other stuff. Peter for the most part sticks with webbing and a spidey light on his belt. He could gear up way more if he really tried, but he usually doesn't.[/QUOTE]
In the Back in Black storyline, before one more day, Pete nearly beat the Kingpin to death, Wilson didn't even lay a finger on him.
It always bugged me that Peter never got proper combat training. Guys like him with super-strength are the ones who need it the most so that they don't accidentally kill someone. I liked that Slott actually had him learn some proper fighting technique from Shang-Chi, but then Superior happened and he forgot it.
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At this point, the definition of "Mary Sue" has been watered down so much it's almost meaningless. When it started out, it was "a fan character who is so special all the canon characters immediately worship her".
Then it became "A fan character who is simply better than all the canon characters."
Nowadays, it's "a canon character who is better than the characters I like". :P
Or, to put it simpler: "A character I don't like." :D
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[QUOTE=Overhazard;3719459]In the Back in Black storyline, before one more day, Pete nearly beat the Kingpin to death, Wilson didn't even lay a finger on him.
It always bugged me that Peter never got proper combat training. Guys like him with super-strength are the ones who need it the most so that they don't accidentally kill someone. I liked that Slott actually had him learn some proper fighting technique from Shang-Chi, but then Superior happened and he forgot it.[/QUOTE]
You can sort of make the argument that because of his Spider senses and enhaced speed and reacton time (versus most opponents at least) Spidey can get away with not having a whole lot of combat training. He's generally a lot stronger than the guys who are more skilled fighters, and generally a lot faster than the guys who are stronger than him. So he can usually compensate one way or the other.
But yeah... at this point Spidey should be a pretty solid fighter. The Shang training combined with the spider senses and enhances stats should make him more of a beast than he usually is. But again, that's part of the problem... marvel usually wants Spidey as the underdog. So he'll fight up to legitimately higher threats and down to lower threats. He's all over the place basically. And as a fan it used to bug me... but I'm sort of used to it by this point.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3719428][COLOR="#000080"]They should have taken it in another direction. With him combining magic and tech, it should have amounted more than just teleportation.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Facts! However if I'm not mistaken i think there one more reference to it within a volume of Dumbwar where the Dorae had incorporated into their weapons, but again i try to remember that period too much so i might be wrong. Either way the Shadow Physics could been something that T'challa built his own legacy on. Hell will we ever have a writer that truly loves this character again? I'm depressing myself thinking of the missed opportunities happening right now.
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[QUOTE=dkrook;3719648]Facts! However if I'm not mistaken i think there one more reference to it within a volume of Dumbwar where the Dorae had incorporated into their weapons, but again i try to remember that period too much so i might be wrong. Either way the Shadow Physics could been something that T'challa built his own legacy on. Hell will we ever have a writer that truly loves this character again? I'm depressing myself thinking of the missed opportunities happening right now.[/QUOTE]
dont be depressed it's something coates may look into in the near future. I wouldn't mind seeing more of his king of the dead abilities.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3719491]At this point, the definition of "Mary Sue" has been watered down so much it's almost meaningless. When it started out, it was "a fan character who is so special all the canon characters immediately worship her".
Then it became "A fan character who is simply better than all the canon characters."
Nowadays, it's "a canon character who is better than the characters I like". :P
Or, to put it simpler: "A character I don't like." :D[/QUOTE]
True
[QUOTE=dkrook;3719648]Facts! However if I'm not mistaken i think there one more reference to it within a volume of Dumbwar where the Dorae had incorporated into their weapons, but again i try to remember that period too much so i might be wrong. Either way the Shadow Physics could been something that T'challa built his own legacy on. Hell will we ever have a writer that truly loves this character again? I'm depressing myself thinking of the missed opportunities happening right now.[/QUOTE]
they were, that is why they glowed blue.
Also where the MCU likely pulled the blue glowing border tribe blades from
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3719691]dont be depressed it's something coates may look into in the near future. I wouldn't mind seeing more of his king of the dead abilities.[/QUOTE]
yeah, he might give even more of them to Shuri
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3719691]dont be depressed it's something coates may look into in the near future. I wouldn't mind seeing more of his king of the dead abilities.[/QUOTE]
We know he has that spear. I suppose that could be kind of the dead related (it would be nice if we got more info on that thing).
And there's that mystical soul track ability as well, which he often combines with Edens power to essentially create a version of DBZ's Gokus instant transmission.
So Coates gave his KotD powers some minor tweaks. Nothing overpowering, but he's learned a few new tricks.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3719714]True
they were, that is why they glowed blue.
Also where the MCU likely pulled the blue glowing border tribe blades from
yeah, he might give even more of them to Shuri[/QUOTE]
xpac described some stuff he did with his king of dead abilities. and what all is he supposed to do with those abilities that shuri has? had he done those things in the past?
[QUOTE=XPac;3719723]We know he has that spear. I suppose that could be kind of the dead related (it would be nice if we got more info on that thing).
And there's that mystical soul track ability as well, which he often combines with Edens power to essentially create a version of DBZ's Gokus instant transmission.
So Coates gave his KotD powers some minor tweaks. Nothing overpowering, but he's learned a few new tricks.[/QUOTE]
oh very good points I actually forgot all about that. thanks for this.
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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719422]I can see that, but it feels like a wasted concept for BP to just disregard.[/QUOTE]
I think it sort of ended up being an unneeded concept.
Previously vibranium was sort of Wakanda's thing. It was their plot device. When Maeberry was taking vibranium off the table, I think the idea was that shadow physics was sort of way new plot device to replace the lost vinbranium. But when vibranium immediately came back after Maeberry stopped writing the book, the need for a plot device to replace vibranium sort of vanished.
If vibranium was kept off the table a little longer, it's theoretically possible we might have gotten more practical application for shadow physics. But it's sort of like Spider-Man learning martial arts from Shang Chi after he lost his spider senses. Spidey becoming a martial artist replaced his lost spider senses until he got his spider senses back... then his martial arts skills just kind of went away.
I suppose in theory some of the new Hickman upgrades (force fields, teleportation, glowing boxing gloves) could have been more practical application of shadow physics but they were never labeled as such.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719723]We know he has that spear. I suppose that could be kind of the dead related (it would be nice if we got more info on that thing).
And there's that mystical soul track ability as well, which he often combines with Edens power to essentially create a version of DBZ's Gokus instant transmission.
So Coates gave his KotD powers some minor tweaks. Nothing overpowering, but he's learned a few new tricks.[/QUOTE]
The spear is the same color as the ghost army. It is 100% part of the coates version of the kotd
the soul tracking ability was something T'challa got post incursion. Coates specfically mentioned it. It isn't kotd related.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3719725]xpac described some stuff he did with his king of dead abilities. and what all is he supposed to do with those abilities that shuri has? had he done those things in the past?
[/QUOTE]
- The spear is ok but it is just a shitty version of energy daggers. I'm not going to get too excited about it. But, it is ok.
- soul tracking isn't kotd related
- T'challa's kotd powers under hickman was to be able to talk to old panthers and gain their knowledge. In fact, teh first panels we see T'challa in New Avengers #1 is T'challa lecturing one of the smart kids about his great great grandfather (or something) and how he is smiling at him.
The Coates turned around and gave Shuri knowledge of ALL of Wakanda including pre-history that the old panthers didn't know. So, took this power and trumped T'challa's for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
- T'challa was shown the ability to control zombies in Secret Wars.
Then Coates turned around and gave Shuri the ability to RAISE HER OWN ZOMBIES and control them. So, took T'challa's power and actually made it useful for every day use. So, trumped again.
The only "kotd" power Coates has shown to potentially be useulf is the force ghost army... which might actually require Eden, the panels weren't 100% clear.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3719734]I think it sort of ended up being an unneeded concept.
Previously vibranium was sort of Wakanda's thing. It was their plot device. When Maeberry was taking vibranium off the table, I think the idea was that shadow physics was sort of way new plot device to replace the lost vinbranium. But when vibranium immediately came back after Maeberry stopped writing the book, the need for a plot device to replace vibranium sort of vanished.
If vibranium was kept off the table a little longer, it's theoretically possible we might have gotten more practical application for shadow physics. But it's sort of like Spider-Man learning martial arts from Shang Chi after he lost his spider senses. Spidey becoming a martial artist replaced his lost spider senses until he got his spider senses back... then his martial arts skills just kind of went away.
I suppose in theory some of the new Hickman upgrades (force fields, teleportation, glowing boxing gloves) could have been more practical application of shadow physics but they were never labeled as such.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I dislike how Black Panther's world revolves entirely around just having more vibranium (not that shadow physics didn't have anything to do with it). It would just be nice for Wakanda to have a bit more than, "Ayyy... Vibranium!"
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[QUOTE=Skedatz;3719386]Guess I'm glad I've spent time away from comic forums for a while then. That sounds like it was a fun time.[/QUOTE]
It was..
Now milquetoast is the way of the walk.