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I think people tend to pile on the powers/tech too much. For YEARS, save for the Kirby run, Panther's powers were primarily physical, backed by his intellect.
And when Priest decided to increase his usual tech loadout, he didn't go full Batman with it. He made the costume bulletproof, gave him a fancy knife, and a fancy Palm Pilot.
The problem I have with things like "Shadow Physics" or the KOTD powers is they make the character more about what he can do, not who he is. Fancy tech to take down Mephisto? Sure, he's a genius, and planned in advance. But assuming he has it available at all times turns him into the Adam West Batman... always pulling out a gadget for every occasion.
And the more I think about it, the less I like the King Of The Dead powers. In a way, it demeans T'Challa as a character, because every time he uses them, he's basically admitting he can't win on his own knowledge and strengths, but has to get help from his forefathers. If it was something he could only do with effort, possibly by deep meditation or consulting ancient scrolls/tablets, that was one thing. But if it's such a part of his power set that he can do it as a matter of course? Then T'Challa himself is merely the vessel for Panthers past, and the man himself is almost irrelevant.
So for me, his power set should be:
1) Superhuman Strength, Speed, etc.
2) Superhuman Senses.
3) Genius intellect
4) Vibranium suit & claws, with integrated next-generation Kimoyo technogy (because iPhones)
5) Energy dagger if you must (I thought it became a bit overused after a while).
If you want to play with some of the other things that have been invented that's fine for a story or two, but be wary of getting too fancy with it. Remember the Man over the Machine. Otherwise, you can get things like the latest Iron Man armor, which has basically left even comic0book physics behind to replace it with "magic".
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590154]I think people tend to pile on the powers/tech too much. For YEARS, save for the Kirby run, Panther's powers were primarily physical, backed by his intellect.
And when Priest decided to increase his usual tech loadout, he didn't go full Batman with it. He made the costume bulletproof, gave him a fancy knife, and a fancy Palm Pilot.
The problem I have with things like "Shadow Physics" or the KOTD powers is they make the character more about what he can do, not who he is. Fancy tech to take down Mephisto? Sure, he's a genius, and planned in advance. But assuming he has it available at all times turns him into the Adam West Batman... always pulling out a gadget for every occasion.
And the more I think about it, the less I like the King Of The Dead powers. In a way, it demeans T'Challa as a character, because every time he uses them, he's basically admitting he can't win on his own knowledge and strengths, but has to get help from his forefathers. If it was something he could only do with effort, possibly by deep meditation or consulting ancient scrolls/tablets, that was one thing. But if it's such a part of his power set that he can do it as a matter of course? Then T'Challa himself is merely the vessel for Panthers past, and the man himself is almost irrelevant.
So for me, his power set should be:
1) Superhuman Strength, Speed, etc.
2) Superhuman Senses.
3) Genius intellect
4) Vibranium suit & claws, with integrated next-generation Kimoyo technogy (because iPhones)
5) Energy dagger if you must (I thought it became a bit overused after a while).
If you want to play with some of the other things that have been invented that's fine for a story or two, but be wary of getting too fancy with it. Remember the Man over the Machine. Otherwise, you can get things like the latest Iron Man armor, which has basically left even comic0book physics behind to replace it with "magic".[/QUOTE]
I see no problem with Shadow Physics being permanently incorporated into T'Challa's repetoire for the simple fact that it's a totally original and tangible expression of the characters much vaunted but rarely shown (on panel) genius level intellect.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590154]I think people tend to pile on the powers/tech too much. For YEARS, save for the Kirby run, Panther's powers were primarily physical, backed by his intellect.
And when Priest decided to increase his usual tech loadout, he didn't go full Batman with it. He made the costume bulletproof, gave him a fancy knife, and a fancy Palm Pilot.
The problem I have with things like "Shadow Physics" or the KOTD powers is they make the character more about what he can do, not who he is. Fancy tech to take down Mephisto? Sure, he's a genius, and planned in advance. But assuming he has it available at all times turns him into the Adam West Batman... always pulling out a gadget for every occasion.
And the more I think about it, the less I like the King Of The Dead powers. In a way, it demeans T'Challa as a character, because every time he uses them, he's basically admitting he can't win on his own knowledge and strengths, but has to get help from his forefathers. If it was something he could only do with effort, possibly by deep meditation or consulting ancient scrolls/tablets, that was one thing. But if it's such a part of his power set that he can do it as a matter of course? Then T'Challa himself is merely the vessel for Panthers past, and the man himself is almost irrelevant.
So for me, his power set should be:
1) Superhuman Strength, Speed, etc.
2) Superhuman Senses.
3) Genius intellect
4) Vibranium suit & claws, with integrated next-generation Kimoyo technogy (because iPhones)
5) Energy dagger if you must (I thought it became a bit overused after a while).
If you want to play with some of the other things that have been invented that's fine for a story or two, but be wary of getting too fancy with it. Remember the Man over the Machine. Otherwise, you can get things like the latest Iron Man armor, which has basically left even comic0book physics behind to replace it with "magic".[/QUOTE]
Much better said than I could. It is what I meant by limited power through kotd. But when he tricked Memphisto allowing g him to have his soul, the best part was that he tricked Memphisto. Trapping him with the tech and punching him was cool. But beating the devil at his own game was priceless.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1590177]Much better said than I could. It is what I meant by limited power through kotd. But when he tricked Memphisto allowing g him to have his soul, the best part was that he tricked Memphisto. Trapping him with the tech and punching him was cool. But beating the devil at his own game was priceless.[/QUOTE]
Which is all the more reason to laugh at the assertion that Hickman's blundering T'Challa was inspired by Priest's superior strategist take on the same character.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590154]
And the more I think about it, the less I like the King Of The Dead powers. In a way, it demeans T'Challa as a character, because every time he uses them, he's basically admitting he can't win on his own knowledge and strengths, but has to get help from his forefathers. If it was something he could only do with effort, possibly by deep meditation or consulting ancient scrolls/tablets, that was one thing. But if it's such a part of his power set that he can do it as a matter of course? Then T'Challa himself is merely the vessel for Panthers past, and the man himself is almost irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Actually, one thing I like about the KoTD powers is that it shows that T'Challa is a great Black Panther (maybe the greatest Black Panther) among other great Black panthers. Shows that he is part of a long line of greatness and excellence, and that he's not the exception to the rule, but at the least the stardard and perhaps more.
There's nothing wrong with him consulting the knowledge of his ancestors every once in a while. Not only is a logical thing to do, as it can give a leg up he or Wakanda needs, but he is only human: as great of a man as he is, there's no way he'll know everything or will always take the proper course of action, even if deep inside he believes he's right.
Those powers do not reduce him at all, in my eyes. And besides, if they follow his characterization properly, he won't be using it much anyway: he's already extremely smart and knowledgeable, plus he has a lot of pride in himself and his abilities.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1590189]Actually, one thing I like about the KoTD powers is that it shows that T'Challa is a great Black Panther (maybe the greatest Black Panther) among other great Black panthers. Shows that he is part of a long line of greatness and excellence, and that he's not the exception to the rule, but at the least the stardard and perhaps more.
There's nothing wrong with him consulting the knowledge of his ancestors every once in a while. Not only is a logical thing to do, as it can give a leg up he or Wakanda needs, but he is only human: as great of a man as he is, there's no way he'll know everything or will always take the proper course of action, even if deep inside he believes he's right.
Those powers do not reduce him at all, in my eyes. And besides, if they follow his characterization properly, he won't be using it much anyway: he's already extremely smart and knowledgeable, plus he has a lot of pride in himself and his abilities.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
He just needs to get over this need to be open with everyone but his fellow Wakandans.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1590172]I see no problem with Shadow Physics being permanently incorporated into T'Challa's repetoire for the simple fact that it's a totally original and tangible expression of the characters much vaunted but rarely shown (on panel) genius level intellect.[/QUOTE]
I'll be fair, my friend... I honestly don't KNOW what it can do. Which is part of the problem... it's so ill-defined that it can be used as a "get out of jail free" card. Give it reasonable vague limits, and i don't really mind. But based on a quick Google, a combination of "ancient alchemy and quantum science" sounds more like "here are some cool terms to use to justify the writer pulling stuff out of his ass" than a reasonable upgrade. Hell, "quantum" ANYTHING in comics is usually a handwave. Throw ancient magic into it, and the sky's the limit.
So here's the deal. Give me a decent idea of what it can, and more importantly CAN'T do, and I'll be happy to add it to his repertoire. :D
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1590189]Actually, one thing I like about the KoTD powers is that it shows that T'Challa is a great Black Panther (maybe the greatest Black Panther) among other great Black panthers. Shows that he is part of a long line of greatness and excellence, and that he's not the exception to the rule, but at the least the stardard and perhaps more.
There's nothing wrong with him consulting the knowledge of his ancestors every once in a while. Not only is a logical thing to do, as it can give a leg up he or Wakanda needs, but he is only human: as great of a man as he is, there's no way he'll know everything or will always take the proper course of action, even if deep inside he believes he's right.
Those powers do not reduce him at all, in my eyes. And besides, if they follow his characterization properly, he won't be using it much anyway: he's already extremely smart and knowledgeable, plus he has a lot of pride in himself and his abilities.[/QUOTE]
That's just it. If they follow his characterization properly, if he's the greatest Panther ever, he shouldn't NEED special powers to access his predecessors. I'd be happier if they swiped an idea from the Phantom comic, and revealed a special library somewhere in Wakanda, with journals of many of the past bearers of the mantle. T'Challa could consult them in certain circumstances, and there's even a few storytelling hooks there (use them for backup stories, or reveal one is missing, that sort of thing). Gives you the same knowledge, without making it a combat skill.
In fact, that would make T'Challa even MORE impressive, because if he pulls out a random fact in battle, it's not because the knowledge was handed to him by his KOTD title, but because he actually studied and remembers all this stuff. He worked for it.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1590207]Agreed.
He just needs to get over this need to be open with everyone but his fellow Wakandans.[/QUOTE]
LOL!
Well, that's where his supporting cast (Shuri, W'Kabi, S'yan, Ramonda, Zuri, Hunter, Taku, the Doras) should come in.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590154]I think people tend to pile on the powers/tech too much. For YEARS, save for the Kirby run, Panther's powers were primarily physical, backed by his intellect.
And when Priest decided to increase his usual tech loadout, he didn't go full Batman with it. He made the costume bulletproof, gave him a fancy knife, and a fancy Palm Pilot.
The problem I have with things like "Shadow Physics" or the KOTD powers is they make the character more about what he can do, not who he is. Fancy tech to take down Mephisto? Sure, he's a genius, and planned in advance. But assuming he has it available at all times turns him into the Adam West Batman... always pulling out a gadget for every occasion.
And the more I think about it, the less I like the King Of The Dead powers. In a way, it demeans T'Challa as a character, because every time he uses them, he's basically admitting he can't win on his own knowledge and strengths, but has to get help from his forefathers. If it was something he could only do with effort, possibly by deep meditation or consulting ancient scrolls/tablets, that was one thing. But if it's such a part of his power set that he can do it as a matter of course? Then T'Challa himself is merely the vessel for Panthers past, and the man himself is almost irrelevant.
So for me, his power set should be:
1) Superhuman Strength, Speed, etc.
2) Superhuman Senses.
3) Genius intellect
4) Vibranium suit & claws, with integrated next-generation Kimoyo technogy (because iPhones)
5) Energy dagger if you must (I thought it became a bit overused after a while).
If you want to play with some of the other things that have been invented that's fine for a story or two, but be wary of getting too fancy with it. Remember the Man over the Machine. Otherwise, you can get things like the latest Iron Man armor, which has basically left even comic0book physics behind to replace it with "magic".[/QUOTE]
Well said, and I agree fully.
Hell, that's what's given T'Challa his greatest moments. As much as I love T'Challa punching out Mephisto, people forget that at the time both were playing into the hands of the other. That 'one punch' was Mephisto playing possum, and T'Challa playing along
(note that in the next issue, T'Challa tells Ross not to go inside the gates of hell because outside, Mephisto has no power. He says this while going in himself, so...)
Ultimately, he wins because his trump card is the best. It was his intellect, guided by his technology, the way it really should be.
We should remember that not all characters need or get power ups. There's been some changes in depiction yes, but guys like Captain America, Mr. Fantastic, Black Widow, Daredevil have never gotten power-ups. They're professionals, who start and stay at a certain level of skill, the A-list regardless of how many books they sell. T'Challa is (imo) one of them. All he needs is the ability Stan gave him, and some tech on hand to employ his genius
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590210]
That's just it. If they follow his characterization properly, if he's the greatest Panther ever, he shouldn't NEED special powers to access his predecessors. I'd be happier if they swiped an idea from the Phantom comic, and revealed a special library somewhere in Wakanda, with journals of many of the past bearers of the mantle. T'Challa could consult them in certain circumstances, and there's even a few storytelling hooks there (use them for backup stories, or reveal one is missing, that sort of thing). Gives you the same knowledge, without making it a combat skill.
In fact, that would make T'Challa even MORE impressive, because if he pulls out a random fact in battle, it's not because the knowledge was handed to him by his KOTD title, but because he actually studied and remembers all this stuff. He worked for it.[/QUOTE]
Yea, he may not need it, and might even rarely use it (as someone mentioned, make it something that drains ones energy for a day, for writing purposes), but there's nothing wrong with having that option available. Doesn't make him any less of a person, leader, or Black Panther for consulting them in the most extreme of circumstances. Hell, if he has to consult them, then it must be a serious issue.
In fact, you can have both the library and the KOTD. The library may have the knowledge on paper and T'Challa can go from there. However, he may want more perspective or may have to questions that need to be answered. Doesn't make him any lesser of a character for doing so. Even the great ones need help every once in a blue moon.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1590224]Yea, he may not need it, and might even rarely use it (hell, as someone mentioned, make it something that drains ones energy for a day, for writing purposes), but there's nothing wrong with having that option available. Doesn't make him any less of a person, leader, or Black Panther for consulting them in the most extreme of circumstances. Hell, if he has to consult them, then it must be a serious issue.
In fact, you can have both the library and the KOTD. The library may have the knowledge on paper and T'Challa can go from there. However, he may want more perspective or may have to questions that need to be answered. Doesn't make him any lesser of a character for doing so. Even the great ones need help every once in a blue moon.[/QUOTE]
I guess my problem is that I know how some comics writers think... and once in a blue moon ends up happening every other issue. Case in point, does anyone remember the Jurgens run on THOR from about 15 years ago? During that run, Jurgens either revealed or dug up a power called the "anti-force blast", wherein Thor channels his godly energy through his hammer as a fairly generic-looking energy beam.
(I think he may have adapted it from an earlier comic, I can't recall for sure)
Now, you'd think something like that would be only used in extreme circumstances. After all, Thor had his strength and weather powers, right?
Nope. Every fight, he'd whip out the godblast. After a while, Mjolnir started looking like a hammer-shaped raygun.
And that's what I'm worried about. Writers using it as a crutch. At least if the knowledge is stored in a tangible location, T'Challa would have to stop and go get it (or have someone else go do it). Having it just on tap is dangerous. Oh, and i wouldn't put much faith in the "it drains him to use the power" either. That sort of weakness NEVER lasts... they used to say the same thing about the Iron Fist.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;1590234]I guess my problem is that I know how some comics writers think... and once in a blue moon ends up happening every other issue. Case in point, does anyone remember the Jurgens run on THOR from about 15 years ago? During that run, Jurgens either revealed or dug up a power called the "anti-force blast", wherein Thor channels his godly energy through his hammer as a fairly generic-looking energy beam.[/QUOTE]
That's a good point lol. Some comic writers will want to use if just because they can.
[QUOTE]And that's what I'm worried about. Writers using it as a crutch. At least if the knowledge is stored in a tangible location, T'Challa would have to stop and go get it (or have someone else go do it). Having it just on tap is dangerous. Oh, and i wouldn't put much faith in the "it drains him to use the power" either. That sort of weakness NEVER lasts... they used to say the same thing about the Iron Fist.[/QUOTE]
Storing it in a tangible location should help in it not being used often.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1589848]Is that BP doing a flying kick below Black widow?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bLbKKbN.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Unless Spider-Man is in black, yes.
[QUOTE=Dboi654;1590151]I thought about this and the image of Panther and Cap on the mug that says "POWER" could possibly imply thatchy are the most powerful hand to hand combatants in the mcu
Just speculating[/QUOTE]
It could be in reference to Panther being one of the most powerful players (in terms of wealth and political status) they've encountered.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1590262]Unless Spider-Man is in black, yes.
It could be in reference to Panther being one of the most powerful players (in terms of wealth and political status) they've encountered.[/QUOTE]
That's what I got from that as well.
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god, I hope T'challa switches sides and him being "Team Iron Man" is just for promotional purposes
I liked it better when Feige kept saying he was the neutral 3rd party.