Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[QUOTE=616MarvelYear is LeapYear;2014705]That's true I guess [B][SIZE=1]30000 posts WOW![/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]

I bet we actually hit that months ago. We periodically get a lot of trolls and subsequent post deletion here.

[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2013542]The way I see it, the Black Panther movie needs to be about T'Challa, first & foremost. Whether we see his extended family (Ramonda, Shuri, Zuri), circle of friends (Taku, W'kabi) or random supporting characters (the Collectors) all depends on his character arc, and how it drives the plot.

I think it would be a cardinal error to start throwing in random ideas from the comic simply because one enjoys them. The story MUST come first. If it means we only see Shuri for five minutes, so be it.

Would I like to see an adaptation of the first Priest arc? In a hot minute. But wishful thinking only goes so far... Coogler has his vision, and Marvel has signed off on it. And THAT is what I'm looking forward to, not what I think the movie should be.[/QUOTE]

Co-sign everything here.

And please everyone stop the trolltastic "fear of Shuri" bullshit. I love Shuri. I want her in the movies but T'Challa first everyone else second.

((I love Shuri so much that I stopped reading New Avengers when they needlessly killed her off.:())

[QUOTE=ed2962;2014163]I guess I'm not seeing what the conflict is. There's no reason we can't have Shuri, Ramonda, and a love interest in the same movie and have them all be significant. It's not so much about screen time as it is how about they affect BP's character and plot.[/QUOTE]

But can you have the Dora Milaje with characterization and all of the above characters?:confused::confused:

[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2013548][B]To be completely honest, I think a lot of posters are heavily downplaying the importance of a LI and Shuri. No A sexual black man that needs to stop. And Shuri is bigger and more important than any Dora. Bring in the one we saw in CW and give her a couple more lines and her bane and show her fighting with Shuri or something to showcase both of them as badasses. If they do a loose adaption of Who is the Black Panther then we will see Dora's fight anyways.[/B][/QUOTE]

Good points

[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2014556]Lil dirt muddies the water[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/14dXclYKbx2ONW/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2013559]Unlike you, I did not care for Shuri at all when she first came out. But she became a much better character as time came along. In retrospect, I'm happy that the writers didn't give up on her. Now she's a great asset to the franchise.[/QUOTE]

And there it is. This is the problem that I have been having with many of these Shuri posts. It seems that many would like to have zero character development of Shuri with her being or almost being at Black Pantherready level from the jump. That just sounds like horrible storytelling to me. I fell in love with Shuri in the first arc BECAUSE of her being the impetuous young girl who thought she was ready to be BP but cried at the horror of actually killing a human being (even though it was self-defense). Seeing where she started to where she ended is GROWTH. This out-of-the-gate Black Panther Shuri is a BAD idea. It took years for Shuri to become the Black panther in the comic book but some of yall sound like you want her to become BP in one movie.:confused::confused:

[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2014273]O

Exactly!....... I'm not following the logic or the excuses. It will not help Panther or Marvel that in 2018 there is still not a female hero who is black. Not including and making her prominently show in Panther will get the film back lash.[/QUOTE]

Because it's not logic it's limits my brother
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2014332]K

Yes because a universe that is not inclusive, where Black Woman are denied a hero , in a movie that is going to be 90% BLACK is wrong.

We didn't get young T'challa or all his growth. No need to apply that sort of logic to Shuri. SHE CAN BE FULLY REALISED, just like Boseman's T'challa in CW and have that growth just like Panther did in CW.[/QUOTE]

We must limit or die trying...

[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2014399]No one has even insinuated that it is or should be Shuri's movie. This is obviously T'Challa's movie, without a doubt.

All we are saying is that its to the benefit of T'Challa's movie that his most popular supporting character--a character who happens to be able to fill a demand that many fans are hoping to be filled--is featured in the film and is well portrayed in the film using the version the vast majority of fans want to see. She doesn't need much screen time to achieve this and, imho, doesn't need more screen time than the female love interest and the villain to make that happen.[/QUOTE]

A few mins is too much for some lol #limits in fiction

[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2014698]Race Bending Mandarin didn't hurt Iron Man 3's bottom line.

It didn't hurt Thor's or Dark World's bottom line either.

Only dudes on the interwebs care about that stuff.

The FF movie crashed and burned because it was a complete pile of crap. Not because they race bent Johnny Storm.

If that was the case, the studio and the director wouldn't have been pointing fingers at each other the day the movie dropped.[/QUOTE]

Online anger from racists very rarely translates to anything tangible. Plus this is Marvel. If they could sell people a movie about Rocket Racoon or Ant-Man, nobody is gonna give a shit about a black woman playing an obscure comic book heroine who used to be blonde.

[QUOTE=Holt;2014472]I really doubt they hired Lupita Nyong'o for a Sharon Carter length role. Sharon has like 5 minutes of screentime in her first movie and slightly more than that in the sequel.

I have no doubt Coogler could do cool things with Shuri but there is no way Lupita is gonna be a glorified cameo like Sharon Carter. You don't hire an Oscar winner and then give her a bit part like that. There's a reason that part went to someone known more for her TV work than film acting.[/QUOTE]

Well...they did hire Glenn Close who's got a fist-full of awards (and nominations for more) for GoTG to play straight man to John C Reilly. :p I don't think she was on screen for more than five minutes.

But seriously, I do think their plans for Lupita are probably long range.

[QUOTE=Holt;2014872]Online anger from racists very rarely translates to anything tangible. Plus this is Marvel. If they could sell people a movie about Rocket Racoon or Ant-Man, nobody is gonna give a shit about a black woman playing an obscure comic book heroine who used to be blonde.[/QUOTE]

im not going to lie... ant man rocket buddy movie is intriguing

[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2014574]I have no problem with this, at all.

I don't even have a problem with her taking out some fodder (if there even is a bunch of fodder) in the semi background either.

[B]What I don't need, in this movie, is a "widow hallway scene" or "wm tag team" or "falcon doing falcon stuff" in the FIRST movie. T'challa and Wakanda need 100% established before worrying about establishing side kick like characters.[/B][/QUOTE]

I kinda disagree. If we have a scene in which Shuri beats up some dudes, that doesn't rule out having an earlier scene that shows how the royal council works or showing the relationship between the different tribes.

[QUOTE=Yaw;2014802]But can you have the Dora Milaje with characterization and all of the above characters?:confused::confused:[/QUOTE]

You [I]could[/I], but I'd do it slightly different. If it were me I'd have the Doras a constant presence but focus on the characters I mentioned. Then in the sequel expand their role. Maybe bring in a few "Most Dangerous Man Alive" characters.

[QUOTE=Yaw;2014840]And there it is. This is the problem that I have been having with many of these Shuri posts. It seems that many would like to have zero character development of Shuri with her being or almost being at Black Pantherready level from the jump. That just sounds like horrible storytelling to me. I fell in love with Shuri in the first arc BECAUSE of her being the impetuous young girl who thought she was ready to be BP but cried at the horror of actually killing a human being (even though it was self-defense). Seeing where she started to where she ended is GROWTH. [B]This out-of-the-gate Black Panther Shuri is a BAD idea. It took years for Shuri to become the Black panther in the comic book but some of yall sound like you want her to become BP in one movie.:confused::confused:[/B][/QUOTE]

It took T'Challa DECADES to become the character he was in the Priest run. Would it make ANY sense to portray in the MCU a T'Challa that didn't had those "Priest" elements? Of course not, because not only are those elements great, those are the elements T'Challa is known for today! The same applies with Shuri.

Not a single person here has said Shuri should be the BP or Queen in this solo movie. I even said she shouldn't be either in the sequel. All we want is the Shuri we have today, except she isn't a BP or Queen. THAT Shuri is the Shuri fans want. And THAT Shuri has A LOT of room for growth.

That version of Shuri is THE most effective version, and she doesn't have to take away screen time for either T'Challa, the LI, the villain(s), or even the main supporting character, if there is one. This version works because its the most straight forward, it's the most popular, it's the most likeable, it's the most attention grabbing, and it's the most impactful. There is still a lot of growth and character development possibilities in her current iteration.

You may have liked Shuri when she first came out, but the reality is most people either didn't care about her back then or disliked her. If this was Shuri getting her own movie, then her starting young makes perfect sense. But she not only isn't the lead, but probably won't be the female lead or the main supporting character. There's a very strong chance that she won't have much screen time in this film, so why not make her as impactful as possible by having her the way she today (without the BP mantle and the crown) and go from there? This benefits everyone, from the BP franchise, to the fans, to those that hope that have a black female MCU hero.

She can still try out for the BP mantle down the line. She can still become Queen down the line. The difference is, she'll be far more appealing this time around, as her iteration will be a much better version than how she started in the comics. Not having the version of Shuri the fans ended up liking is a waste of time and wasted opportunity.

Lastly, Shuri being who she is today wasn't some grand plan of a story arc. It was purely because Hudlin (and Mayberry) decided to make the forward-thinking decision to make her a Black Panther during the relaunch, something many BP fans were not happy about. As a result of that decision, Shuri was practically required to be used for anything Wakanda-related, thus she survived "Klaws of the Panther" and ended up being well-written by Liss and Hickman.

If it wasn't for that decision, Shuri could've been an afterthought.

[QUOTE=ed2962;2014904]I kinda disagree. If we have a scene in which Shuri beats up some dudes, that doesn't rule out having an earlier scene that shows how the royal council works or showing the relationship between the different tribes.[/QUOTE]

I second that. With the exception of Iron Man, every superhero that Marvel Studios has debut has had a strong line of supporting cast members. Being that Wakanda is an advanced Warrior Nation it would make sense to have other characters that were formidable as well. Even if they lagged behind T'Challa.

[QUOTE=ed2962;2014904]I kinda disagree. If we have a scene in which Shuri beats up some dudes, that doesn't rule out having an earlier scene that shows how the royal council works or showing the relationship between the different tribes.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=neohuey89;2014944]I second that. With the exception of Iron Man, every superhero that Marvel Studios has debut has had a strong line of supporting cast members. Being that Wakanda is an advanced Warrior Nation it would make sense to have other characters that were formidable as well. Even if they lagged behind T'Challa.[/QUOTE]

Some of you are changing what is being said to fit your argument a bit.

Showing Shuri "beat up some dudes" is NOT the same thing as a "widow hallway" or "falcon fly around" scene. Not even close.

For example... Captain America one. The Howling Commandos did some "beat up some dudes" in the movie. Thor 1... the warriors 3 did some "beat up some dudes" in Jotunheim.

And I am cool with that. No big deal. It was battle montage stuff.


That is not the same as Widow IM2 or Falcon in Cap2. That is what I don't want as the "feat focus" should be put 100% on tchalla, just like every single other first solo movie