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[QUOTE=XPac;3218215]I agree, a peace treaty is probably not how most countries would have necessarily responded. That's why I said multiple times that given what she knows, Shuri's decision was entirely understandable.
She didn't know that the Incursions were occruing at the time and it was a horrible time to be fighting amongst themselves, because T'Challa kept that from her. And obviously she didn't know the outcome of the war would be Wakanda taking hit after hit after hit until it was almost entirely destroyed. These are things she can only see in hindsight, which again is why I believe she would have some regrets in the decisions she made. I believe that she in hindsight would have prefered a course of action which could have avoided Wakanda being destroyed. But hindsight is always 20/20 and she had no way to know back then how things would turn out.[/QUOTE]
So how can she have regret if she didn't know? She could say she would do thing differently if she knew the universe was ending, but there is no reason to regret her actions.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218226]Strange was about to destroy the planet until they stopped him.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but Strange wasn't willing to use the bomb. When the time came, Namor was the only one to step up and do what needed to be done.
So T'Challa was in fact right... Namor ended up being needed. Even after the Illuminati decided to abandon using the bombs, Namor kept everyone alive by having the Cabal do it.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218235]So how can she have regret if she didn't know? She could say she would do thing differently if she knew the universe was ending, but there is no reason to regret her actions.[/QUOTE]
I guess we can agree to disagree over the idea that she might have regrets about committing to a war which resulted in her kingdom being destroyed.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3218263]I guess we can agree to disagree over the idea that she might have regrets about committing to a war which resulted in her kingdom being destroyed.[/QUOTE]
Not committing to the war without knowledge of the incursions would've effectively ended her reign. Wakandans turned on T'Challa due to him working with Namor, they would've turned on her for not going to war without one hell of a reason not to.
When it comes to declaring war or the destruction of Wakanda, there's nothing for her to regret. It wasn't her fault that she wasn't informed of the incursions. Or that Thanos' forces appeared seemingly out of the blue (from her POV). Or that Namor lied about the location of the Infinity gems--gems she had no idea about in the first place. Or that the Cabal and the anti-matter bombs were hidden in Wakandan soil without her knowledge. Or that Namor would eventually released the Cabal and said Cabal would use the anti-matter bombs as a form of blackmail.
Lack of intel ended up being her downfall more than anything.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;3218333]Not committing to the war without knowledge of the incursions would've effectively ended her reign. Wakandans turned on T'Challa due to him working with Namor, they would've turned on her for not going to war without one hell of a reason not to.
When it comes to declaring war or the destruction of Wakanda, there's nothing for her to regret. It wasn't her fault that she wasn't informed of the incursions. Or that Thanos' forces appeared seemingly out of the blue (from her POV). Or that Namor lied about the location of the Infinity gems--gems she had no idea about in the first place. Or that the Cabal and the anti-matter bombs were hidden in Wakandan soil without her knowledge. Or that Namor would eventually released the Cabal and said Cabal would use the anti-matter bombs as a form of blackmail.
Lack of intel ended up being her downfall more than anything.[/QUOTE]
It's certainly true that Shuri had no way of knowing the consequences of the decision to go war with Wakanda would be. But that doesn't necessarily mean that she doens't understand those conequences potentially could have been avoided had she listened to T'CHallas counsil and chosen to accept the peace treaty.
She dudn't fully understand the situation before... but she understands them now in hindsight, which is why she may feel differently now than she did before. That's the point of looking at things in hindsight. You have a better understanding of the consequences of your actions.
As far as Shuri's reign ending had she decided to go taccept the peace treaty... I'm not sure sure. I think it's entirely possible SOME people might have risen against her but I doubt she would have been dethroned. T'Challa did work with Namor during that time like you said, and he's still king now. Yes there was a rebellion which in part started because of Zenzi and the People ... but the government and the public for the most part stuck with T'Challa.
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Problem is all that happened off panel. Sure Shuri handed him power during TRO, but the first two issues should have been him regoing through the trials and earning back the respect of the people since Shuri was "dead".
It would have been a good intro for new readers who got interested because of Civil War. Which is the one thing my LCS got complaints about.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218473]Problem is all that happened off panel. Sure Shuri handed him power during TRO, but the first two issues should have been him regoing through the trials and earning back the respect of the people since Shuri was "dead".
It would have been a good intro for new readers who got interested because of Civil War. Which is the one thing my LCS got complaints about.[/QUOTE]
I suppose for T'Challa that's the upside of using Infinity Stones ... you can skip stuff like trials and just make yourself king again if you want.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3218504]I suppose for T'Challa that's the upside of using Infinity Stones ... you can skip stuff like trials and just make yourself king again if you want.[/QUOTE]
You see T'challa as doing something that dishonorable? Coates yes. lol
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218520]You see T'challa as doing something that dishonorable? Coates yes. lol[/QUOTE]
At the end of Secret Wars when he used the Infinity gem, T'Challa was calling himself king even though Shuri should have been alive at that point. So I don't know.
Theoretically though, I'm not sure from T'Challas perspective it would be dishonorable. He knows Shuri handed him the job. Plus, I think from Basts perspective at least the job was essentially his anytime he wanted it based on what she said in Hickmans FF.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3218530]At the end of Secret Wars when he used the Infinity gem, T'Challa was calling himself king even though Shuri should have been alive at that point. So I don't know.
Theoretically though, I'm not sure from T'Challas perspective it would be dishonorable. He knows Shuri handed him the job. Plus, I think from Basts perspective at least the job was essentially his anytime he wanted it based on what she said in Hickmans FF.[/QUOTE]
Did he mean King of the Dead?
Black Panther isn't a title that can be handed over. He can be made regent and be KoTD, but to be head of the panther tribe, he should have to go through the process again.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218559]Did he mean King of the Dead?
Black Panther isn't a title that can be handed over. He can be made regent and be KoTD, but to be head of the panther tribe, he should have to go through the process again.[/QUOTE]
In the original version when that Wakandan kid called him king T'Challa responded: "This is not necropolis, child. To the living I am simply Black Panther."
After using the Infinity gem, when that Wakandan kid called him king he simply said: "Yes."
I suppose that can be interpreted a number of ways.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3218625]In the original version when that Wakandan kid called him king T'Challa responded: "This is not necropolis, child. To the living I am simply Black Panther."
After using the Infinity gem, when that Wakandan kid called him king he simply said: "Yes."
I suppose that can be interpreted a number of ways.[/QUOTE]
At that point he would have assumed Shuri was alive just like the kids. Until Coates.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218650]At that point he would have assumed Shuri was alive just like the kids. Until Coates.[/QUOTE]
That's my point. Shuri should still be alive, but he's seemingly referring to himself as king. Shuri still will die, but that'snot until Thanos invades down the road.
Granted that scene may not have meant anything (in fact it's probably just easier to ignore it for the most part), but his different response to the question is odd.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3218650]At that point he would have assumed Shuri was alive just like the kids. [COLOR="#000000"][B]Until Coates[/B].[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]That's always the reason when something bad happens to/for T'Challa.[/COLOR]
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At this point, it's worth noting that no amount of gymnastics or creative mental contortioning will slow BP's Hollywood roll.
What Coates chooses to do moving forward is wholly irrelevant.