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[QUOTE=Iron Maiden;859866]I can see Xpac's point though about it being an assassination. Not that it is the same situation but Salman Rushdie has had a death sentence passed on him for a long time for his writings. Certain parties would be happy to seen just about anyone kill him at anytime. If that were to occur I would call it an assassination even though Rushdie knows it could come at anytime.
I think there is no two ways around the fact that Namor did have an epiphany about the course he had taken. He knew that this was the last act of a free man. We don't don't exactly what Steve had in mind or if they were talking about some kind of MU equivalent of the International Court of Justice. IMO it was a sneaky way for T'Challa to fulfill his vow and sabotage the plan. For me the scene on the platform would have played out better had he challenged Namor to a final fight to settle the score right up front. Maybe you could fault Reed for not telling T'Challa about Namor coming into the fold again but I think he should have given things a chance.[/QUOTE]
Challenging Namor to a dual at this point at least might have been more honorable but it also would have been more stupid. Dualing him at a later date is fine but at that moment they were on the clock. I don't think he should have killed him at all at that point but if you're going to do it do it fast. Even his stalling and the end was impractical.
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I remember way back in NA #6 I said T'challa would leave Namor on a planet that was going to explode.
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... wait a minute.. Wakanda was [I]destroyed[/I], and no one cared? WTF?
[SIZE=2](then again, there was a massacre in Nigeria and no one cared..)[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;859976]... wait a minute.. Wakanda was [I]destroyed[/I], and no one cared? WTF?
[SIZE=2](then again, there was a massacre in Nigeria and no one cared..)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
It's possible people cared. They just didn't help since that was the price for the entire universe being protected from incursions. It's pretty harsh but it's also understandable.
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[QUOTE=neohuey89;859712][B]I don't see how T'Challa is a monster though.[/B] Stabbing a guy and throwing him into an exploding planet is pretty messed up, but I'd say the story has justified those actions.[/QUOTE]
Most people don't.
Some folks are just trying to pretend as if T'Challa killing Namor happened in a vacuum. Namor was killed by T'Challa because he was directly involved in Wakanda being destroyed on THREE separate occasions and showed not an ounce of remorse for it.
T'Challa attempted to settle the beef TWICE and both times resulted in him getting burned by Namor AND his sister.
It's Mr Fantastic and Plastic Man level of a stretch to call T'Challa monster or put his sins on the same scale as what Namor has done.
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[QUOTE=XPac;859732]I think the interesting in T'Challa's case is actually that, by the perspective of the previous BP's he wasn't enough of a monster to do what he needed to do to protect his people.
The story was trying to sell the idea that kings sometimes need to be monsters because you need to do whatever it takes to protect your people. They come first above all else. Namor was willing to do whatever it took to protect his people, which allowed him to set off the bombs and prevent his people along with everyone else in this universe from dying. T'Challa wasn't enough of a monster to murder billions of innocent people, so from the perspective of his ancestors at least he failed as a king.
Whether or not "monster" is a fair term to apply is obviously subjective... but it's a term Hickman threw around pretty liberally and I think it was an interesting way of seperating how a king thinks from how a super hero thinks. In the end T'Challa couldn't put aside his own set of morals, and was willing to allow 2 universes to end because of it. In this very very messed up situation, it's actually pretty hard to really say how good or bad that is. Which is why it made for such an interesting story.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the situation measures leadership but rather the morality of the character.
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;860105]I don't think the situation measures leadership but rather the morality of the character.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't describe it as leadership exactly. It's more a matter of morality versus cold objective practicality as far as your people are concerned. Does your obligation to your own personal sense of right and wrong out weigh your obligation to the lives of your people. For T'Challa it did and for Namor it dis not.
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Hmmm, well that was an interesting issue... I’m glad T’Challa was written as a man who keeps his word, in regards to killing Namor or at the least playing a huge part in his apparent demise. I just wish we saw a lot more of this decisiveness earlier. As for Namor... it was a derived end. I'm sure he will be back in the picture at some stage.
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[QUOTE=XPac;860139]I wouldn't describe it as leadership exactly. It's more a matter of morality versus cold objective practicality as far as your people are concerned. Does your obligation to your own personal sense of right and wrong out weigh your obligation to the lives of your people. For T'Challa it did and for Namor it dis not.[/QUOTE]
I was just trying to disagree when you said "the story was trying to sell the idea that kings sometimes need to be monsters because you need to do whatever it takes to protect your people".
They were there to save the world and they were there as a group. So if BP couldn't do it, one of them should be able to do it. The writer made the right choice of using Namor to do it because it fits to his character.
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[QUOTE=TheCat;860157]Hmmm, well that was an interesting issue... I’m glad T’Challa was written as a man who keeps his word, in regards to killing Namor or at the least playing a huge part in his apparent demise. I just wish we saw a lot more of this decisiveness earlier. As for Namor... it was a derived end. I'm sure he will be back in the picture at some stage.[/QUOTE]
Probably a good thing he was less decisive earlier. Had he actually killed him earlier the universe probably would have ended.
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Wait a minute. Black Panther killed Namor?????
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;860334]Wait a minute. Black Panther killed Namor?????[/QUOTE]
Seemingly. Chances are Namor is fine.
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[QUOTE=Emma's Midriff;860409]Seemingly. Chances are Namor is fine.[/QUOTE]
Can't wait to see how its explained how he lived. If he begs Thanos or needs Thanos' help....Avengers #40 will be twice as delicious.
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[QUOTE=Emma's Midriff;860409]Seemingly. Chances are Namor is fine.[/QUOTE]
But did BP intend to kill Namor?
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;860469]But did BP intend to kill Namor?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. He had Black Bolt blast Namor as Namor was coming back from trapping the Cabal on a doomed planet, then BP blew him up.