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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3717029]When I was twelve I was playing tag with friends at night, and the area we played tag in was having some construction done. I was "it" at one point and assumed tripped over a block which stopped me from catching my friend. A few minutes later once I cornered some people they told me we had to stop because I was bleeding all over. I thought this was some sort of fakeout.
Then I looked down. Apparently I had tripped over rebar and impaled myself. Then proceeded to get free and still chase a bunch of people all over.
The point of this story is that at twelve I was more of a threat than Adversary.
And if y'all want to see it I can upload a pic of the scar whenever.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/5s.gif[/img]
[B]That was an amazing comparison [/B]
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3717029]
And if y'all want to see it I can upload a pic of the scar whenever.[/QUOTE]
[I]yes please. that has to be better than where this thread has been going lol. :)[/I]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3716966][B]Why would bast be there? She isn't evil.
Basically adversary is like Klaw. On paper, he should be this super dangerous super scary threat. Like Klaw, who o paper is a nigh cosmic being. But in actual panel showings and how he has been defeated... Naw. Mephisto would Walk all over him, same with all the others shown in the scan cville posted. Forge being his arch nemesis is no SS or Ghost riders, who would spank the **** out of forge all day everyday[/B][/QUOTE]
mephisto is not a universal threat and does not have any feats that demonstrate he could be a character like roma. adversary does. and forge is his arc nemesis because he has the ability to lock him away via a dimensional portal preventing him from ushering in chaos and destroying the universe. he cant be killed, he cant be destroyed and again he is a unvivsral threat. mephisto isnt and as much as you would like to make it so tchalla was able to beat mephisto but he didn't have the power to beat adversary; his forever love did.
[QUOTE=XPac;3716997]Not all those guys are evil though. They're just a collection of powerful beings. Most I would consider neutral (though Mephisto obviously falls under the evil banner).
And in all fairness Mephisto has some pretty low end showings too. Once he was defeated by Johnny Blazes girlfriend. Not even Ghost Rider, but his girlfriend. Powerful characters interesting enough tend to get jobbed out the most.[/QUOTE]
thank you beloved.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3717123]mephisto is not a universal threat and does not have any feats that demonstrate he could be a character like roma. adversary does. and forge is his arc nemesis because he has the ability to lock him away via a dimensional portal preventing him from ushering in chaos and destroying the universe. he cant be killed, he cant be destroyed and again he is a unvivsral threat. mephisto isnt and as much as you would like to make it so tchalla was able to beat mephisto but he didn't have the power to beat adversary; his forever love did.
thank you beloved.[/QUOTE]
Okay, do you realize what you have just done essentially? Rather than give consideration to the true potential of Panther and what he capable of you just completely diminished Mephisto instead. This is Marvel's version of THE DEVIL. I'd put Silver Surfer above Roma and That same Silver Surfer wasn't able to get with Mephisto.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3717032][B]Oh wow I guess that means he is crap now then... Except he is still out of adversary's league[/B][/QUOTE]
No, I didn't say he is crap... that actually happened a long long time ago. I'm just saying characters can have good and bad days. Our guy Klaw is a descent example of that. On good days you can challenge the Black Panther, but on bad ones you can get cumberstomped by Goldballs. It happens.
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There is more pages about Adversary in this thread than their are pages of comics he actually appears in.
Adversary is a classic **** villain.. narration talks up how big of a threat he is... but he never really does any of it on panel. It is just narration to make him seem big while he gets stuck in a metal box or defeated by Nemesis lol.
Also funny... bringing up Mephisto's low end showings when the dude has been around for decades, with well over 300 appearances. Mephistos dumb low in showings are just that... dumb, plot induced stupidity.
Adversary. meanwhile, has under 50 appearances period. His low end showings are JUST WHO HE IS. He doesn't have enough showings to define "what" his shitty ass powerbase is. So a metal box is completely in character.
Feats trump narration. Narration don't mean **** if it is not on panel. But then again, some characters are "made" on narration with no feats (coughcough) so I guess it is par for the course.
I also love the "I haven't read much on Mephisto" and then turn around and say Mephisto isn't much of a threat despite getting a seat at the table with the biggest cosmic abstracts at Marvel.
Adversary is a such a threat he showed up and got beat in like 12 pages of a comic. He got beat by a Zavardi and a collection of redshirt mystics and a lightning bolt. Klaw lasted longer.
And any fan of Black Panther who says a dude that can get stuck in a box isn't a dude T'challa, top 10 genius, someone who preps for Galactus, someone with infinite resources and is known for pulling classic marvel scientist deus ex machina out of his ass, can beat... likely hasn't read enough black panther to comment on it.
Anywho...........
[QUOTE]That's a sentiment shared by Kevin Feige because he's credited the movie and director Ryan Coogler for making Marvel a better studio. "The experience of making ‘Black Panther,’ even before it came out, was a transformative one," he explained during a recent Q&A. "We’re watching the final playback, where you see the final film and check for any last-minute changes, and when it ended I just instinctually leaned over to Ryan and said, ‘I think this is the best movie we’ve ever made.'"
"We had to make that movie to destroy a myth that Black movies don’t succeed around the world," he added. "Unconscious bias is a real thing." Explaining that working on Black Panther also made him more aware of the need for a greater level of diversity behind the camera, Feige reflected on a production meeting where he noticed that everyone "didn’t look like me, and that was exciting."[/QUOTE]
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[COLOR="#000080"]The guys at my LCS told me that Reggie Hudlin and Priest were in the shop this past week(not on the same day).
And I missed it.
They also showed me the new Marvel Select BP figure from the movie. Really nice. He's a little leaner than past figures.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3717328]There is more pages about Adversary in this thread than their are pages of comics he actually appears in.
Adversary is a classic **** villain.. narration talks up how big of a threat he is... but he never really does any of it on panel. It is just narration to make him seem big while he gets stuck in a metal box or defeated by Nemesis lol.
Also funny... bringing up Mephisto's low end showings when the dude has been around for decades, with well over 300 appearances. Mephistos dumb low in showings are just that... dumb, plot induced stupidity.
Adversary. meanwhile, has under 50 appearances period. His low end showings are JUST WHO HE IS. He doesn't have enough showings to define "what" his shitty ass powerbase is. So a metal box is completely in character.
Feats trump narration. Narration don't mean **** if it is not on panel. But then again, some characters are "made" on narration with no feats (coughcough) so I guess it is par for the course.
I also love the "I haven't read much on Mephisto" and then turn around and say Mephisto isn't much of a threat despite getting a seat at the table with the biggest cosmic abstracts at Marvel.
Adversary is a such a threat he showed up and got beat in like 12 pages of a comic. He got beat by a Zavardi and a collection of redshirt mystics and a lightning bolt. Klaw lasted longer.
And any fan of Black Panther who says a dude that can get stuck in a box isn't a dude T'challa, top 10 genius, someone who preps for Galactus, someone with infinite resources and is known for pulling classic marvel scientist deus ex machina out of his ass, can beat... likely hasn't read enough black panther to comment on it.
Anywho...........[/QUOTE]
Just to mention this... BP's anti-Galactus plan apparently involved the Hulk somehow if I'm not mistaken. Who obviousy isn't a non-Wakandan. Certainly less so than Storm at least. So T'Challa pooling non-Wakandan resources from the super hero community to deal with big threats isn't all that unheard of.
Which is ultimately why T'Challa using Storm as a resource to push Adversary through a portal really isn't all that different from him using Hulk to help stop Galactus or him using whatever other resources are available to put Adversary in a box. He'll use what resources are available to get the job done. He'll use tech and he'll use science and he'll use other super heroes. Even non Wakandan ones if they happen to be an option. It's not one or the other... it's all of the above.
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[COLOR="#000080"]Two issues into the Avengers relaunch, BP's characterization has been pretty good so far. Didn't appear in issue #2 so I expect to see him and Strange get some face time in issue #3.[/COLOR]
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Actually, it required a bit more than that:
[url]https://imgur.com/gallery/Dwy35[/url]
Of course, compared to the Adversary, Galactus isn't a cosmic threat.... :D
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Black Panther Vol. 1 #15 - [i]Revenge of the Black Panther![/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/5d8081f1d7e8d4a815d1_8.jpg[/img]
First off, this issue has an incredibly generic title. We pick up with T'Challa and Cap fighting more sound creatures. Specifically an elephant with claw hands since, if you're making a creature made of sound, you might as well make a few upgrades. They're not having much luck. Cap thinks his shield is useless against the creature. T'Challa disagrees. He thinks the shield is barely having an effect, which is way better than anything else. Specifically, there is a metal in the shield that possesses the same properties as Vibranium (cue nerd moment). He picks Cap's shield up on a rebound and throws it, destroying the creature.
Meanwhile, Beast and Vision are having trouble getting Klaw on a ship to Wakanda. It seems the dock workers are a little uncomfortable smuggling a human out of the country without any documentation. Suddenly, they are attacked by more sound creatures. Luckily, Vision kicks ass while Beast quips. Unfortunately, they aren't quick enough to stop the Thunderbolts from reviving Klaw. They specifically state that Klaw had been losing strength over the years and was now restored to his original strength (with a footnote citing his FF issues). It seems like they're saying "yeah, he wasn't all that impressive recently, but remember when he was?" I kind of wonder if they would be willing to make Klaw a sound creature in Black Panther 2 and bring Andy Serkis back for mo cap. I bet they could make him really cool. I always pictured his voice having a sort of reverb effect mixed with his accent.
Luckily, a pair of Wakandans arrive with vibranium gloves. A cool fight scene follows. Eventually, T'Challa wins and Klaw's fate is a mystery. The issue ends with Monica Lynne and Kevin Trublood arriving at the consulate. The person who opens the door has been expecting them, but T'Challa knows nothing of their visit. Then we see Windeagle land as well ready to kill the Black Panther. To be continued in Marvel Premiere.
This was a solid issue. I skipped over a description of the action because it's tedious to explain it, but it was probably the highlight of the story. In particular, the final fight with Klaw gets very intense when it goes under water. My only real complaint there is Ed Hannigan overwrote the art with way too many thought balloons. Sometimes, the art and the action can just speak for itself. I guess the book wasn't selling well, since it ends here, but they already know the story is continuing, which is a bit weird. That being said, there's a transition here, moving from Black Panther fighting Klaw to returning to and finishing McGregor's Ku Klux Klan story. I do want to transition there and see how it'll finish, even if I remembered not liking where it goes.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3717364]Actually, it required a bit more than that:
[url]https://imgur.com/gallery/Dwy35[/url]
Of course, compared to the Adversary, Galactus isn't a cosmic threat.... :D[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it definitely requires a lot to beat Galactus. It's Galactus afterall.
I'm just saying he's more than willing to get non-Wakandan help to deal with threats. That's nothing new. Whatever gets the job done.
He used the Ultimates against Galactus in Ewings book. When you have a large percentage of the super hero community on speed dial, you'll use it from time to time.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3717368]Black Panther Vol. 1 #15 - [i]Revenge of the Black Panther![/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/5d8081f1d7e8d4a815d1_8.jpg[/img]
First off, this issue has an incredibly generic title. We pick up with T'Challa and Cap fighting more sound creatures. Specifically an elephant with claw hands since, if you're making a creature made of sound, you might as well make a few upgrades. They're not having much luck. Cap thinks his shield is useless against the creature. T'Challa disagrees. He thinks the shield is barely having an effect, which is way better than anything else. Specifically, there is a metal in the shield that possesses the same properties as Vibranium (cue nerd moment). He picks Cap's shield up on a rebound and throws it, destroying the creature.
Meanwhile, Beast and Vision are having trouble getting Klaw on a ship to Wakanda. It seems the dock workers are a little uncomfortable smuggling a human out of the country without any documentation. Suddenly, they are attacked by more sound creatures. Luckily, Vision kicks ass while Beast quips. Unfortunately, they aren't quick enough to stop the Thunderbolts from reviving Klaw. They specifically state that Klaw had been losing strength over the years and was now restored to his original strength (with a footnote citing his FF issues). It seems like they're saying "yeah, he wasn't all that impressive recently, but remember when he was?" I kind of wonder if they would be willing to make Klaw a sound creature in Black Panther 2 and bring Andy Serkis back for mo cap. I bet they could make him really cool. I always pictured his voice having a sort of reverb effect mixed with his accent.
Luckily, a pair of Wakandans arrive with vibranium gloves. A cool fight scene follows. Eventually, T'Challa wins and Klaw's fate is a mystery. The issue ends with Monica Lynne and Kevin Trublood arriving at the consulate. The person who opens the door has been expecting them, but T'Challa knows nothing of their visit. Then we see Windeagle land as well ready to kill the Black Panther. To be continued in Marvel Premiere.
This was a solid issue. I skipped over a description of the action because it's tedious to explain it, but it was probably the highlight of the story. In particular, the final fight with Klaw gets very intense when it goes under water. My only real complaint there is Ed Hannigan overwrote the art with way too many thought balloons. Sometimes, the art and the action can just speak for itself. I guess the book wasn't selling well, since it ends here, but they already know the story is continuing, which is a bit weird. That being said, there's a transition here, moving from Black Panther fighting Klaw to returning to and finishing McGregor's Ku Klux Klan story. I do want to transition there and see how it'll finish, even if I remembered not liking where it goes.[/QUOTE]
I sort of like how vibranium wasn't an instant KO against Klaw and his sound creatures. It certainly is a viable weapon that gives them an edge, but it doesn't come off as essentially krypotine against Klaw. It's a shame some (though not all) preceeding showings aren't handled in the same way.
I thought the fight with Klaw and the Avengers was cool though. Wish that creative team had more time on the book. The non Kirby part of the run was probably my favorite part of it. It just seemed less weird.
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To me, the difference (and the reason McDuffie was a great writer, and Coates isn't) is that, despite the fact that this was an FF story (T'Challa & Storm were filling in for Reed & Sue) and the primary focus was on a guest character (Gravity), T'Challa was an active part of the story. He had agency. He even had a "feat".
His plan didn't involve him (literally) dropping to his knees while other people (Wakandan or otherwise) did all of the work. He wasn't a background character in his own title. Hell, even Storm got to go toe-to-toe with a herald of Galactus, something most folks can't do without a power-up.
The key, I think, is that it is possible to make other characters look good without making the protagonists look bad. McDuffie knew how to it, Priest & Hudlin know how to do it...
I seriously doubt Coates does….
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3717401]To me, the difference (and the reason McDuffie was a great writer, and Coates isn't) is that, despite the fact that this was an FF story (T'Challa & Storm were filling in for Reed & Sue) and the primary focus was on a guest character (Gravity), T'Challa was an active part of the story. He had agency. He even had a "feat".
His plan didn't involve him (literally) dropping to his knees while other people (Wakandan or otherwise) did all of the work. He wasn't a background character in his own title. Hell, even Storm got to go toe-to-toe with a herald of Galactus, something most folks can't do without a power-up.
The key, I think, is that it is possible to make other characters look good without making the protagonists look bad. McDuffie knew how to it, Priest & Hudlin know how to do it...
I seriously doubt Coates does….[/QUOTE]
My point of contention is that T'Challa really didn't look bad there. He came up with a plan to defeat Adversary, executed it, and won. T'Challa and Shuri do fight Adversary to buy Storm time, so it's not like he was just sitting around doing nothing. But yes, it was a case where the heavy lifting wasn't necessarily done by him. Not unlike what we saw in FF and Ultimates against Galactus. But he came up with the plan and made it happen. Without T'Challa they could not have beaten the adversary because he came up with the game plan for doing it. So I don't see it as him looking bad there at all. Agree to disagree I guess.